Mailing List Archive

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 13:04:36 +0200 Sven Vermeulen <swift@gentoo.org>
wrote:
| We already have interesting documents in our repository that are based
| on various forum threads. I'm going to start to convert interesting
| forum threads to gentoo documentation (when I receive confirmation
| from the original authors to have it released under the cc-by-sa 2.0
| license); I'll inform you guys about the documents when they come
| along.

I hope you check the accuracy *very* carefully. There's some really
nasty misinformation in a lot of those forums threads...

--
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Vim, Fluxbox, Sparc, Mips)
Mail : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm

On Sun, Oct 10, 2004 at 12:51:45PM +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> I hope you check the accuracy *very* carefully. There's some really
> nasty misinformation in a lot of those forums threads...

Certainly. I'm only going to focus on threads which I have sufficient
knowledge on. I'm perfectly aware about the false information that's
written in some (read: many) threads, I just don't have the time to go
correct them all manually (I'll leave that up to the community :)

Wkr,
Sven Vermeulen


--
Documentation & PR project leader

The Gentoo Project <<< http://www.gentoo.org >>>

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Sven Vermeulen wrote:
| We already have interesting documents in our repository that are based on
| various forum threads. I'm going to start to convert interesting forum
| threads to gentoo documentation (when I receive confirmation from the
| original authors to have it released under the cc-by-sa 2.0 license); I'll
| inform you guys about the documents when they come along.
|
| I hope others will follow this example and add more and more documentation
| to our repository.

Isn't this what http://gentoo-wiki.com is for?

Sounds like you're going to reinvent the wheel.

- --
Christian Hartmann
http://www.gentoo.org/~ian/

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gentoo-doc@gentoo.org mailing list

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 13:04:36 +0200, Sven Vermeulen <swift@gentoo.org> wrote:
> We already have interesting documents in our repository that are based on
> various forum threads. I'm going to start to convert interesting forum
> threads to gentoo documentation (when I receive confirmation from the
> original authors to have it released under the cc-by-sa 2.0 license);

I thought gentoo-wiki.com did this for forum threads whereas the main
gentoo.org web site was for rubber-stamped, up-to-date documentation?
(at least that's the response I got when I asked about it at the UK
meet).

Paul

--
gentoo-doc@gentoo.org mailing list

On Sun, Oct 10, 2004 at 04:42:17PM +0000, Paul Waring wrote:
> I thought gentoo-wiki.com did this for forum threads whereas the main
> gentoo.org web site was for rubber-stamped, up-to-date documentation?
> (at least that's the response I got when I asked about it at the UK
> meet).

I actually never really took the time to check out gentoo-wiki (it's not an
official Gentoo project even though the name might suggest it). I'm not sure
but I believe the gentoo-wiki uses the FDL as license for it's
documentation. The Gentoo Documentation Project requires the CC-BY-SA
license. And since a wiki might make it difficult to track authors it's
quite difficult to take information from the wiki and publicize it on
gentoo.org

But that's not why I don't take the wiki as a source...

I frequently visit the forums for information; people tend to be less
bounded by rules on the forum and therefore easily write whatever they feel
like writing about. Sometimes this leads to very interesting information.
I focus on the forums mainly because I'm used to them. So it's not like I
hate the wiki :)

The forums, for me, provide a place to see what the users find most
difficult with Gentoo or it's installation process. It gives me a good
feeling about how the community thinks, what they want and how they act.
Based on various threads I can create a document that helps people as much
as possible.

The wiki is a place where knowledgeable users try to write documentation on
aspects they find important enough to share with the rest of the world.
While this certainly is a noble target, it isn't always based on the
problems users have.

I don't copy information from the "Documentation, Tips & Tricks" section of
the forums; I copy information from the other forums, from lengthy threads
which are eventually resolved by some magical yet thoughtfull idea that a
user brought. And sometimes the answer is so damned clearly stated that I
can only ask the user's permission to reproduce it fully in a document.

Wkr,
Sven Vermeulen

--
Documentation & PR project leader

The Gentoo Project <<< http://www.gentoo.org >>>

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Sven Vermeulen wrote:
| I actually never really took the time to check out gentoo-wiki

Don't you think it would be a good thing(tm) to do so before continuing?

| (it's not an
| official Gentoo project even though the name might suggest it).

Who cares? It's working. Users like it. Users contribute.

| I'm not sure
| but I believe the gentoo-wiki uses the FDL as license for it's
| documentation.

http://gentoo-wiki.com/Gentoo-Portage_Wiki:General_disclaimer

| I frequently visit the forums for information; people tend to be less
| bounded by rules on the forum and therefore easily write whatever they
feel
| like writing about. Sometimes this leads to very interesting information.
| I focus on the forums mainly because I'm used to them. So it's not like I
| hate the wiki :)

I don't like wikis but I see that wikis like gentoo-wiki.com are working
and growing and are really a big contribution. So why not make it an
official project?

| The wiki is a place where knowledgeable users try to write
documentation on
| aspects they find important enough to share with the rest of the world.
| While this certainly is a noble target, it isn't always based on the
| problems users have.

No?

Whatever.. IMHO you're wasting resouces. Resources that would better be
used to make existing docs better or create (the often requested)
presentations that could be used at fairs etc.

- --
Christian Hartmann
http://www.gentoo.org/~ian/

PGP Key:
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gentoo-doc@gentoo.org mailing list

On Sun, Oct 10, 2004 at 07:53:16PM +0200, Christian Hartmann wrote:
> | I actually never really took the time to check out gentoo-wiki
>
> Don't you think it would be a good thing(tm) to do so before continuing?

Yes, you're right. I've taken a look at the Wiki and the available
documents. There are quite a few HOWTOs out there, but I don't think the
subjects I had in mind are listed there (although I'll definitely take a
look once I've settled my mind on one).

> | (it's not an
> | official Gentoo project even though the name might suggest it).
>
> Who cares? It's working. Users like it. Users contribute.

Actually that was a reply to the sentiment that the wiki is for
documentation "staging" while gentoo.org is for "production". What I meant
to say is that it is not. It can, and some documentation developers might,
but it's not set in stone.

I personally can't since I develop documentation while I'm disconnected from
the hive^WInternet.

> I don't like wikis but I see that wikis like gentoo-wiki.com are working
> and growing and are really a big contribution. So why not make it an
> official project?

It's up to the infrastructure team if they want to support a Wiki, but I'm
not in favor of it as it's too easy to have wrong information listed (there
is hardly any quality control). I can only accept it in case updates are
reviewed by developers before submitted to the live documents.

> Whatever.. IMHO you're wasting resouces. Resources that would better be
> used to make existing docs better or create (the often requested)
> presentations that could be used at fairs etc.

I only write new documents when I cannot find existing documents to improve.
I'm far from knowledgeable on many topics, so many documentation bugs are
waiting on bgo for someone else to take a look at (see also our roadmap
[1]).

I'm working on presentations, but that's a rather difficult job without good
content :)

Wkr,
Sven Vermeulen

[1] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/gdp/roadmap.xml

--
Documentation & PR project leader

The Gentoo Project <<< http://www.gentoo.org >>>

On Mon, Oct 11, 2004 at 02:50:36PM +0200 or thereabouts, Sven Vermeulen wrote:
> It's up to the infrastructure team if they want to support a Wiki,

I'm not opposed to supporting a wiki, but someone is going to have to write
a GLEP to describe how it's going to be used, who's going to take advantage
of it, etc. Basically, why it's a Good Thing to have.

We don't subscribe to the "if you build it, they will come" mentality.

--kurt