Mailing List Archive

[using fakereject]

On 19/08/2023 13:50, Victor Ustugov via Exim-users wrote:
> But when the sender requests a DSN, he receives a notification from the
> sender's server that the email was rejected, and he receives a Delivery
> Status Notification with "The following addresses had successful
> delivery notifications" from the recipient's server.

Sounds like a bug. Raise one, so the issue isn't forgotten.

In the meantime, stop advertising DSN service, using the
dsn_advertise_hosts main-config option.
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Jeremy


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Jeremy Harris via Exim-users wrote on 19.08.2023 17:59:
> [using fakereject]
>
> On 19/08/2023 13:50, Victor Ustugov via Exim-users wrote:
>> But when the sender requests a DSN, he receives a notification from the
>> sender's server that the email was rejected, and he receives a Delivery
>> Status Notification with "The following addresses had successful
>> delivery notifications" from the recipient's server.
>
> Sounds like a bug.  Raise one, so the issue isn't forgotten.

https://bugs.exim.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3016


> In the meantime, stop advertising DSN service, using the
> dsn_advertise_hosts main-config option.

I know how to completely disable DSN.

Now I'm considering blocking specific DSN on the References header. But
this won't work if there is no Message-ID header in the original email.


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On 19/08/2023 16:29, Victor Ustugov via Exim-users wrote:
> But
> this won't work if there is no Message-ID header in the original email.

You can safely block any external-source messages lacking a
Message-ID header (local ones, where you're being an MSA,
not so; some MUAs are dumb and the MSA has to fix then up.
Exim does that).

RFC 5322 only lists this as a SHOULD (section 3.8.4) -
but I see it as spamsign.
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D?a 19. augusta 2023 15:37:08 UTC používate? Jeremy Harris via Exim-users <exim-users@lists.exim.org> napísal:

>RFC 5322 only lists this as a SHOULD (section 3.8.4) -
>but I see it as spamsign.

Beware, eg. Alibaba sends its access code (2FA or so) without
Message-ID.

regards


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Jeremy Harris via Exim-users wrote on 19.08.2023 18:37:
> On 19/08/2023 16:29, Victor Ustugov via Exim-users wrote:
>> But
>> this won't work if there is no Message-ID header in the original email.
>
> You can safely block any external-source messages lacking a
> Message-ID header (local ones, where you're being an MSA,
> not so; some MUAs are dumb and the MSA has to fix then up.
> Exim does that).
>
> RFC 5322 only lists this as a SHOULD (section 3.8.4) -
> but I see it as spamsign.

I can't block emails that don't contain Message-Id headers. You can't
even imagine how many emails that do not meet the requirements of the
RFC come from official organizations, suppliers, buyers.

For example, emails from noreply@cisco.com with a DMARC Aggregate Report
have a Message-ID header. But it doesn't contain angle brackets.

Thus, the absence of the Message-ID header or the incorrect format of
the Message-ID header are not reliable criteria for refusing to deliver
a message.

Therefore, I hesitate to refuse normal delivery of emails on the basis
of such unreliable criteria. And even if I refuse to deliver the email
to the Inbox, I deliver it to the Junk.

And we ended up where we started. In order to deliver email to Junk and
return a 5xx error to the sender, I need to use fakereject and solve the
problem with DSN.


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Best wishes Victor Ustugov
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public GnuPG/PGP key: https://victor.corvax.kiev.ua/corvax.asc

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On Sat, 2023-08-19 at 19:10 +0300, Victor Ustugov via Exim-users wrote:
> Jeremy Harris via Exim-users wrote on 19.08.2023 18:37:
> > On 19/08/2023 16:29, Victor Ustugov via Exim-users wrote:
> > > But
> > > this won't work if there is no Message-ID header in the original
> > > email.
> >
> > You can safely block any external-source messages lacking a
> > Message-ID header (local ones, where you're being an MSA,
> > not so; some MUAs are dumb and the MSA has to fix then up.
> > Exim does that).
> >
> > RFC 5322 only lists this as a SHOULD (section 3.8.4) -
> > but I see it as spamsign.
>
> I can't block emails that don't contain Message-Id headers. You can't
> even imagine how many emails that do not meet the requirements of the
> RFC come from official organizations, suppliers, buyers.
>
> For example, emails from noreply@cisco.com with a DMARC Aggregate
> Report have a Message-ID header. But it doesn't contain angle
> brackets.
>
> Thus, the absence of the Message-ID header or the incorrect format of
> the Message-ID header are not reliable criteria for refusing to
> deliver a message.
>

FWIW, Google treat it as a MUST and (at least some of the time) refuse
such messages at SMTP time.

Regards,

Adam


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On 2023-08-19, Victor Ustugov via Exim-users <exim-users@lists.exim.org> wrote:
> Hello.
>
> I have been using fakereject for many years. It allows me to deliver
> emails to the recipients junk folder and return a permanent error code
> to the sender's server.
>
> But when the sender requests a DSN, he receives a notification from the
> sender's server that the email was rejected, and he receives a Delivery
> Status Notification with "The following addresses had successful
> delivery notifications" from the recipient's server.
>
> I did not find the possibility to disable the sending of the DNS in case
> of a fakeject or the ability to replace the successful delivery
> notification with the failed delivery notification.
>
> How can I prevent successful delivery notifications from being sent when
> using a fakeject?

I had a similar problem with "unseen" deliveries (instead of
fakereject). For me rewriting the envelope sender prevents status
notifications from going back to the real sender.

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???????? ????? ???????

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Adam D. Barratt via Exim-users wrote on 19.08.2023 21:21:
> On Sat, 2023-08-19 at 19:10 +0300, Victor Ustugov via Exim-users wrote:
>> Jeremy Harris via Exim-users wrote on 19.08.2023 18:37:
>>> On 19/08/2023 16:29, Victor Ustugov via Exim-users wrote:
>>>> But
>>>> this won't work if there is no Message-ID header in the original
>>>> email.
>>>
>>> You can safely block any external-source messages lacking a
>>> Message-ID header (local ones, where you're being an MSA,
>>> not so; some MUAs are dumb and the MSA has to fix then up.
>>> Exim does that).
>>>
>>> RFC 5322 only lists this as a SHOULD (section 3.8.4) -
>>> but I see it as spamsign.
>>
>> I can't block emails that don't contain Message-Id headers. You can't
>> even imagine how many emails that do not meet the requirements of the
>> RFC come from official organizations, suppliers, buyers.
>>
>> For example, emails from noreply@cisco.com with a DMARC Aggregate
>> Report have a Message-ID header. But it doesn't contain angle
>> brackets.
>>
>> Thus, the absence of the Message-ID header or the incorrect format of
>> the Message-ID header are not reliable criteria for refusing to
>> deliver a message.
>>
>
> FWIW, Google treat it as a MUST and (at least some of the time) refuse
> such messages at SMTP time.

As a postmaster, I can't afford what Google does to senders and its users.


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Best wishes Victor Ustugov
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public GnuPG/PGP key: https://victor.corvax.kiev.ua/corvax.asc

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Jasen Betts via Exim-users wrote on 20.08.2023 11:56:
> On 2023-08-19, Victor Ustugov via Exim-users <exim-users@lists.exim.org> wrote:
>> Hello.
>>
>> I have been using fakereject for many years. It allows me to deliver
>> emails to the recipients junk folder and return a permanent error code
>> to the sender's server.
>>
>> But when the sender requests a DSN, he receives a notification from the
>> sender's server that the email was rejected, and he receives a Delivery
>> Status Notification with "The following addresses had successful
>> delivery notifications" from the recipient's server.
>>
>> I did not find the possibility to disable the sending of the DNS in case
>> of a fakeject or the ability to replace the successful delivery
>> notification with the failed delivery notification.
>>
>> How can I prevent successful delivery notifications from being sent when
>> using a fakeject?
>
> I had a similar problem with "unseen" deliveries (instead of
> fakereject). For me rewriting the envelope sender prevents status
> notifications from going back to the real sender.

I would prefer that when the email is delivered to Junk, the sender's
address is not changed. But the idea is interesting, thanks.


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Best wishes Victor Ustugov
mailto:victor@corvax.kiev.ua
public GnuPG/PGP key: https://victor.corvax.kiev.ua/corvax.asc

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