Hello,
I was just giong to mention those last two - there's a very
similar error in dbmail when it forwards messages, it sets the
envelope sender to itsself. Refer to the message trail in
http://mailman.fastxs.net/pipermail/dbmail/2003-June/003030.html
It will of course break a good number of installations to
simply drop dbmail forwarding entirely. If intending to drop
it, it'd be nice to fix the broken behavior now, then really
frown upon offsite-forwarding in the documentation and give
everyone a little time to migrate.
Jn
---- Original Message ----
From: Ilja Booij <dbmail-dev@dbmail.org>
To: dbmail-dev@dbmail.org
Subject: Re: [Dbmail-dev] bounces
Sent: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 14:24:17 +0100
> Hi,
>
> Seems like a good idea to me. Let the MTA do what the MTA does best,
and
> let DBMail store the emails. Along the same lines: Can't we use the MTA
> sending forwards and domain forwards in the same manner?
>
> Ilja
>
>
> Aaron Stone wrote:
>
> > Based on my reading, I think that DBMail should not generate
bounces at all.
> > Rather, appropriate temporary-failure and permanent-failure return
codes
> > should come from dbmail-smtp and DSN codes from dbmail-lmtpd,
along with
> > additional descriptive text in both cases, and the MTA will do the
rest.
> >
> > If this is the case, I can remove the bounce call from pipe.c
right now; I'm
> > working on refining the delivery chain to produce appropriate
error codes for
> > various failure conditions. Making sure to emit bounce codes for
situations
> > which would have called the bounce() function won't be too hard.
> >
> > Aaron
> >
> >
> > Ilja Booij <ilja@ic-s.nl> said:
> >
> >
> >>dbmail currently uses the Return-Path header. If it cannot find
such a
> >>header, it uses the From header.
> >>
> >>What would you suggest we do: search for the Sender and/or Errors-To
> >>header and use that as a return address? Does this always work?
> >>
> >>thanks,
> >>Ilja
> >>
> >>Christian G. Warden wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>I'm pretty sure this has been discussed before, but dbmail doesn't
> >>>seem to generate bounces correctly. I don't generate bounces within
> >>>dbmail so I've never noticed this.
> >>>
> >>>Here is a bounce I got from a dbmail user in response to a
message sent
> >>>to the dbmail list.
> >>>It does a few things wrong. The envelope sender is not <> as it
should
> >>>be, and the message is sent to the address in the From header rather
> >>>than the envelope sender.
> >>>How does dbmail determine the sender of a message that a bounce
must be
> >>>sent to? It doesn't look like the MTA of the user in question adds a
> >>>header with the envelope sender, but Errors-To and Sender would be
> >>>better choices than From.
> >>>
> >>>xn
> >>>
> >>>----- Forwarded message from dbmail-bounce@netel.bg -----
> >>>
> >>>Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 23:32:23 +0200 (EET)
> >>>From: dbmail-bounce@netel.bg
> >>>To: xndbmail@xerus.org
> >>>Subject: DBMAIL: delivery failure
> >>>
> >>>This is the DBMAIL-SMTP program.
> >>>
> >>>I'm sorry to inform you that your message, addressed to naso,
> >>>could not be delivered due to the following error.
> >>>
> >>>*** Mailbox of user naso is FULL ***
> >>>
> >>>If you think this message is incorrect please contact
postmaster@netel.bg.
> >>>
> >>>Header of your message follows...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>--- header of your message ---
> >>>Received: from twister.fastxs.net (unknown [213.214.98.20])
> >>> by mail.netel.bg (Postfix) with ESMTP
> >>> id C69575C004FF; Tue, 3 Feb 2004 23:32:16 +0200 (EET)
> >>>Received: from twister.fastxs.net (localhost [127.0.0.1])
> >>> by twister.fastxs.net (Postfix) with ESMTP
> >>> id 2E7E37BE71; Tue, 3 Feb 2004 22:32:02 +0100 (CET)
> >>>Received: from cayenne.xerus.org (adsl-66-51-218-170.dslextreme.com
> >
> > [66.51.218.170])
> >
> >>> by twister.fastxs.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C58A87B46F
> >>> for <dbmail@dbmail.org>; Tue, 3 Feb 2004 22:30:59 +0100 (CET)
> >>>Received: from safron ([192.168.1.5] helo=safron.xerus.org)
> >>> by cayenne.xerus.org with esmtp (Exim 4.30 #1 (Debian))
> >>> id 1Ao886-0007C2-3t
> >>> for <dbmail@dbmail.org>; Tue, 03 Feb 2004 13:30:46 -0800
> >>>Received: from cwarden by safron.xerus.org with local (Exim 3.36
#1 (Debian))
> >>> id 1Ao88J-00071c-00
> >>> for <dbmail@dbmail.org>; Tue, 03 Feb 2004 13:30:59 -0800
> >>>From: "Christian G. Warden" <xndbmail@xerus.org>
> >>>To: dbmail@dbmail.org
> >>>Subject: Re: [Dbmail] dbmail-smtp and imap folders
> >>>Message-ID: <20040203213059.GS18848@xerus.org>
> >>>References: <200402032143.20330.nervo@nervo.net>
> >
> > <200402032110.i13LABO9003894@dbmail-mx4.orcon.co.nz>
> >
> >>>Mime-Version: 1.0
> >>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> >>>Content-Disposition: inline
> >>>In-Reply-To: <200402032110.i13LABO9003894@dbmail-mx4.orcon.co.nz>
> >>>User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i
> >>>Sender: dbmail-admin@dbmail.org
> >>>Errors-To: dbmail-admin@dbmail.org
> >>>X-BeenThere: dbmail@dbmail.org
> >>>X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.10
> >>>Precedence: bulk
> >>>Reply-To: dbmail@dbmail.org
> >>>List-Help: <mailto:dbmail-request@dbmail.org?subject=help>
> >>>List-Post: <mailto:dbmail@dbmail.org>
> >>>List-Subscribe: <https://mailman.fastxs.nl/mailman/listinfo/dbmail>,
> >>> <mailto:dbmail-request@dbmail.org?subject=subscribe>
> >>>List-Id: <dbmail.dbmail.org>
> >>>List-Unsubscribe:
<https://mailman.fastxs.nl/mailman/listinfo/dbmail>,
> >>> <mailto:dbmail-request@dbmail.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> >>>List-Archive: <https://mailman.fastxs.nl/pipermail/dbmail/>
> >>>Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 13:30:59 -0800
> >>>
> >>>--- end of header ---
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>----- End forwarded message -----
> >>>_______________________________________________
> >>>Dbmail-dev mailing list
> >>>Dbmail-dev@dbmail.org
> >>>http://twister.fastxs.net/mailman/listinfo/dbmail-dev
> >>
> >>--
> >>IC&S
> >>Stadhouderslaan 57
> >>3583 JD Utrecht
> >>
> >>PGP-key:
> >>http://www.ic-s.nl/keys/ilja.txt
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>Dbmail-dev mailing list
> >>Dbmail-dev@dbmail.org
> >>http://twister.fastxs.net/mailman/listinfo/dbmail-dev
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> IC&S
> Stadhouderslaan 57
> 3583 JD Utrecht
>
> PGP-key:
> http://www.ic-s.nl/keys/ilja.txt
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dbmail-dev mailing list
> Dbmail-dev@dbmail.org
> http://twister.fastxs.net/mailman/listinfo/dbmail-dev
>
-- End Original Message --
--
Jesse Norell
administrator@kci.net is not my email address;
change "administrator" to my first name.
--
I was just giong to mention those last two - there's a very
similar error in dbmail when it forwards messages, it sets the
envelope sender to itsself. Refer to the message trail in
http://mailman.fastxs.net/pipermail/dbmail/2003-June/003030.html
It will of course break a good number of installations to
simply drop dbmail forwarding entirely. If intending to drop
it, it'd be nice to fix the broken behavior now, then really
frown upon offsite-forwarding in the documentation and give
everyone a little time to migrate.
Jn
---- Original Message ----
From: Ilja Booij <dbmail-dev@dbmail.org>
To: dbmail-dev@dbmail.org
Subject: Re: [Dbmail-dev] bounces
Sent: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 14:24:17 +0100
> Hi,
>
> Seems like a good idea to me. Let the MTA do what the MTA does best,
and
> let DBMail store the emails. Along the same lines: Can't we use the MTA
> sending forwards and domain forwards in the same manner?
>
> Ilja
>
>
> Aaron Stone wrote:
>
> > Based on my reading, I think that DBMail should not generate
bounces at all.
> > Rather, appropriate temporary-failure and permanent-failure return
codes
> > should come from dbmail-smtp and DSN codes from dbmail-lmtpd,
along with
> > additional descriptive text in both cases, and the MTA will do the
rest.
> >
> > If this is the case, I can remove the bounce call from pipe.c
right now; I'm
> > working on refining the delivery chain to produce appropriate
error codes for
> > various failure conditions. Making sure to emit bounce codes for
situations
> > which would have called the bounce() function won't be too hard.
> >
> > Aaron
> >
> >
> > Ilja Booij <ilja@ic-s.nl> said:
> >
> >
> >>dbmail currently uses the Return-Path header. If it cannot find
such a
> >>header, it uses the From header.
> >>
> >>What would you suggest we do: search for the Sender and/or Errors-To
> >>header and use that as a return address? Does this always work?
> >>
> >>thanks,
> >>Ilja
> >>
> >>Christian G. Warden wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>I'm pretty sure this has been discussed before, but dbmail doesn't
> >>>seem to generate bounces correctly. I don't generate bounces within
> >>>dbmail so I've never noticed this.
> >>>
> >>>Here is a bounce I got from a dbmail user in response to a
message sent
> >>>to the dbmail list.
> >>>It does a few things wrong. The envelope sender is not <> as it
should
> >>>be, and the message is sent to the address in the From header rather
> >>>than the envelope sender.
> >>>How does dbmail determine the sender of a message that a bounce
must be
> >>>sent to? It doesn't look like the MTA of the user in question adds a
> >>>header with the envelope sender, but Errors-To and Sender would be
> >>>better choices than From.
> >>>
> >>>xn
> >>>
> >>>----- Forwarded message from dbmail-bounce@netel.bg -----
> >>>
> >>>Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 23:32:23 +0200 (EET)
> >>>From: dbmail-bounce@netel.bg
> >>>To: xndbmail@xerus.org
> >>>Subject: DBMAIL: delivery failure
> >>>
> >>>This is the DBMAIL-SMTP program.
> >>>
> >>>I'm sorry to inform you that your message, addressed to naso,
> >>>could not be delivered due to the following error.
> >>>
> >>>*** Mailbox of user naso is FULL ***
> >>>
> >>>If you think this message is incorrect please contact
postmaster@netel.bg.
> >>>
> >>>Header of your message follows...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>--- header of your message ---
> >>>Received: from twister.fastxs.net (unknown [213.214.98.20])
> >>> by mail.netel.bg (Postfix) with ESMTP
> >>> id C69575C004FF; Tue, 3 Feb 2004 23:32:16 +0200 (EET)
> >>>Received: from twister.fastxs.net (localhost [127.0.0.1])
> >>> by twister.fastxs.net (Postfix) with ESMTP
> >>> id 2E7E37BE71; Tue, 3 Feb 2004 22:32:02 +0100 (CET)
> >>>Received: from cayenne.xerus.org (adsl-66-51-218-170.dslextreme.com
> >
> > [66.51.218.170])
> >
> >>> by twister.fastxs.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C58A87B46F
> >>> for <dbmail@dbmail.org>; Tue, 3 Feb 2004 22:30:59 +0100 (CET)
> >>>Received: from safron ([192.168.1.5] helo=safron.xerus.org)
> >>> by cayenne.xerus.org with esmtp (Exim 4.30 #1 (Debian))
> >>> id 1Ao886-0007C2-3t
> >>> for <dbmail@dbmail.org>; Tue, 03 Feb 2004 13:30:46 -0800
> >>>Received: from cwarden by safron.xerus.org with local (Exim 3.36
#1 (Debian))
> >>> id 1Ao88J-00071c-00
> >>> for <dbmail@dbmail.org>; Tue, 03 Feb 2004 13:30:59 -0800
> >>>From: "Christian G. Warden" <xndbmail@xerus.org>
> >>>To: dbmail@dbmail.org
> >>>Subject: Re: [Dbmail] dbmail-smtp and imap folders
> >>>Message-ID: <20040203213059.GS18848@xerus.org>
> >>>References: <200402032143.20330.nervo@nervo.net>
> >
> > <200402032110.i13LABO9003894@dbmail-mx4.orcon.co.nz>
> >
> >>>Mime-Version: 1.0
> >>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> >>>Content-Disposition: inline
> >>>In-Reply-To: <200402032110.i13LABO9003894@dbmail-mx4.orcon.co.nz>
> >>>User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i
> >>>Sender: dbmail-admin@dbmail.org
> >>>Errors-To: dbmail-admin@dbmail.org
> >>>X-BeenThere: dbmail@dbmail.org
> >>>X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.10
> >>>Precedence: bulk
> >>>Reply-To: dbmail@dbmail.org
> >>>List-Help: <mailto:dbmail-request@dbmail.org?subject=help>
> >>>List-Post: <mailto:dbmail@dbmail.org>
> >>>List-Subscribe: <https://mailman.fastxs.nl/mailman/listinfo/dbmail>,
> >>> <mailto:dbmail-request@dbmail.org?subject=subscribe>
> >>>List-Id: <dbmail.dbmail.org>
> >>>List-Unsubscribe:
<https://mailman.fastxs.nl/mailman/listinfo/dbmail>,
> >>> <mailto:dbmail-request@dbmail.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> >>>List-Archive: <https://mailman.fastxs.nl/pipermail/dbmail/>
> >>>Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 13:30:59 -0800
> >>>
> >>>--- end of header ---
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>----- End forwarded message -----
> >>>_______________________________________________
> >>>Dbmail-dev mailing list
> >>>Dbmail-dev@dbmail.org
> >>>http://twister.fastxs.net/mailman/listinfo/dbmail-dev
> >>
> >>--
> >>IC&S
> >>Stadhouderslaan 57
> >>3583 JD Utrecht
> >>
> >>PGP-key:
> >>http://www.ic-s.nl/keys/ilja.txt
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>Dbmail-dev mailing list
> >>Dbmail-dev@dbmail.org
> >>http://twister.fastxs.net/mailman/listinfo/dbmail-dev
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> IC&S
> Stadhouderslaan 57
> 3583 JD Utrecht
>
> PGP-key:
> http://www.ic-s.nl/keys/ilja.txt
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dbmail-dev mailing list
> Dbmail-dev@dbmail.org
> http://twister.fastxs.net/mailman/listinfo/dbmail-dev
>
-- End Original Message --
--
Jesse Norell
administrator@kci.net is not my email address;
change "administrator" to my first name.
--