Mailing List Archive

Phillip & Co,

I like it. A lot. It’s a really huge improvement. Until I saw your
reenvisioned Bricolage logo, I hadn’t realized that the existing logo
doesn’t exactly inspire confidence. Though it’s a good envisioning of
the very concept of “bricolage,” the message that it sends is “this
CMS is held together with duct tape and bailing twine.” :)

I have one practical suggestion and one design suggestion. A great
many middle-management types (and hurried folks like you and me) are
scanning for keywords. Many of them are looking for “PHP” and “MySQL.”
Given that Bricolage supports both of those, I think we’d be very wise
to display logos for both of those. The design suggestion is simply
that designed headers would help those very clever “Recent Project
Activity” and “Planet Bricolage” boxes; right now they’re too drab, I
think. Oh, and one other thing: the footer would be stronger if it
said, simply, “The mature, no-bullshit, built-like-a-tank web
publishing system.” Trimming down the language would actually make it
stronger. (I love that, BTW!)

The fact that these suggestions are so trivial really highlight how
great this is, Phillip. It’s exciting to see.

Best,
Waldo

On Nov 15, 2009, at 12:19 PM, Phillip Smith wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Wanted to provide a quick update on my previous post (http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/bricolage/devel/37752
> ) about a new public web site for Bricolage to coincide with the
> Bricolage 2.0 release.
>
> Since receiving your feedback (thanks!), I've been working away at
> re-thinking and re-writing the copy for the bricolagecms.org site.
> Though far from complete, I recently moved on to sketching out some
> ideas for how the new site might look and how it might accommodate
> the new copy. I've completed a front page mock-up and would like
> your input, complaints, and constructive criticisms. ;-)
>
> Before you jump over there, however, I ask that you put yourself in
> the shoes of a person that would be evaluating Bricolage, e.g., a
> decision-maker at a large organization, a I/T or web development
> team member, a Perl hacker, etc. You're probably coming from a home-
> grown CMS, or an expensive proprietary system and looking for a
> serious, mature, and "enterprise class" alternative.
>
> Once you've transported yourself into that headspace, have a look
> and jot down the first thoughts that come to you mind:
> http://bricolage.indevelopment.ca/
>
> Feel free to also tell me:
>
> * What's missing that would help you take the next step?
> * What's unnecessary and distracting>
> * What questions are you trying to answer in the first few seconds?
>
> And, if you feel like helping out, the Photoshop source files are
> here:
> http://github.com/phillipadsmith/bricolagecms.org
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> Phillip.
>
> --
> Phillip Smith // Simplifier of Technology // COMMUNITY
> BANDWIDTH
> www.communitybandwidth.ca // www.phillipadsmith.com

On Nov 15, 2009, at 10:12 AM, Waldo Jaquith wrote:

> I like it. A lot. It’s a really huge improvement. Until I saw your reenvisioned Bricolage logo, I hadn’t realized that the existing logo doesn’t exactly inspire confidence. Though it’s a good envisioning of the very concept of “bricolage,” the message that it sends is “this CMS is held together with duct tape and bailing twine.” :)

As someone who is familiar with the code, it kind of is. ;-)

I like the logo, too; should it be integrated into Bricolage itself, as well? If so, should we consider new colors? (I'm thinking not to the new colors until the graphical buttons are killed off).

> I have one practical suggestion and one design suggestion. A great many middle-management types (and hurried folks like you and me) are scanning for keywords. Many of them are looking for “PHP” and “MySQL.” Given that Bricolage supports both of those, I think we’d be very wise to display logos for both of those. The design suggestion is simply that designed headers would help those very clever “Recent Project Activity” and “Planet Bricolage” boxes; right now they’re too drab, I think. Oh, and one other thing: the footer would be stronger if it said, simply, “The mature, no-bullshit, built-like-a-tank web publishing system.” Trimming down the language would actually make it stronger. (I love that, BTW!)

+1

> The fact that these suggestions are so trivial really highlight how great this is, Phillip. It’s exciting to see.

Yeah, this is great Phillip, thanks.

David

Hi Phillip,

> Once you've transported yourself into that headspace, have a look and
> jot down the first thoughts that come to you mind:
> http://bricolage.indevelopment.ca/

Wow, looks amazing!

> Feel free to also tell me:
>
> * What's missing that would help you take the next step?
> * What's unnecessary and distracting>
> * What questions are you trying to answer in the first few seconds?

A few suggestions:

* I would try and add three or four recognizable logos to the
sportsnet.ca screenshot as a featured sites box. This quickly shows
people that large organizations that they recognize are using this cms and
shows that it is proven.

* The second thing would be the real life demo, and I'd be happy to help
out here in getting that setup. I think a big "Try Now" and "Download
Now" type button would be useful (I love it when their is a direct link
to the download file). For me, when evaluating these type of products, I
want to try it out really quickly to get a feel for it rather then read
through feature lists. The demo could be a stock install with some
sample content inserted to get a feel for what a working site would look
like.

But looks awesome though, great work!

Cheers,

Alex

--
Alex Krohn <alex@gossamer-threads.com>
Gossamer Threads Inc. http://www.gossamer-threads.com/
Tel: (604) 687-5804 Fax: (604) 687-5806

On Nov 15, 2009, at 11:23 AM, Alex Krohn wrote:

> * I would try and add three or four recognizable logos to the
> sportsnet.ca screenshot as a featured sites box. This quickly shows
> people that large organizations that they recognize are using this cms and
> shows that it is proven.

+1. I was thinking of rotating screen grabs for that slot for various Bricolage-using organizations.

> * The second thing would be the real life demo, and I'd be happy to help
> out here in getting that setup. I think a big "Try Now" and "Download
> Now" type button would be useful (I love it when their is a direct link
> to the download file). For me, when evaluating these type of products, I
> want to try it out really quickly to get a feel for it rather then read
> through feature lists. The demo could be a stock install with some
> sample content inserted to get a feel for what a working site would look
> like.

+1. The demo may mean we don't need a VMWare image for a quick test drive, eh? A link to an image that's like the demo server would be useful too, though, as then the tester can mess with templates and permissions, and not get run over by other folks trying the demo.

Best,

David

Awesome, awesome, awesome.

The two slogans are terrific, especially post-Waldo:


"The only web publishing system that doesn't think it's smarter than you
are."

"The mature, no-bullshit, built-like-a-tank web publishing system."


Really, these lines work wonders in getting the message out. I sometimes
tell people that Bricolage is "like magic crayons," because you can make
it do anything. These are much better lines. :)

I love the new wordmark, and I also love the blue. My one hesitation
about the combination, though, is this: does it look too much like
Facebook?

Love the idea of a live demo. I know that the core of Phillip's message
(and it's brilliant) is that Bricolage frees you from default templates.
But should we think about loading the demo with some defaults, so that
there's a little more for dabblers to play with?


Thanks so much for this, Phillip. It's exciting!


Talk to you soon,

Bret

On Sun, 2009-11-15 at 10:23 -0800, David E. Wheeler wrote:
> On Nov 15, 2009, at 10:12 AM, Waldo Jaquith wrote:
>
> > I like it. A lot. It’s a really huge improvement. Until I saw your reenvisioned Bricolage logo, I hadn’t realized that the existing logo doesn’t exactly inspire confidence. Though it’s a good envisioning of the very concept of “bricolage,” the message that it sends is “this CMS is held together with duct tape and bailing twine.” :)
>
> As someone who is familiar with the code, it kind of is. ;-)
>
> I like the logo, too; should it be integrated into Bricolage itself, as well? If so, should we consider new colors? (I'm thinking not to the new colors until the graphical buttons are killed off).
>
> > I have one practical suggestion and one design suggestion. A great many middle-management types (and hurried folks like you and me) are scanning for keywords. Many of them are looking for “PHP” and “MySQL.” Given that Bricolage supports both of those, I think we’d be very wise to display logos for both of those. The design suggestion is simply that designed headers would help those very clever “Recent Project Activity” and “Planet Bricolage” boxes; right now they’re too drab, I think. Oh, and one other thing: the footer would be stronger if it said, simply, “The mature, no-bullshit, built-like-a-tank web publishing system.” Trimming down the language would actually make it stronger. (I love that, BTW!)
>
> +1
>
> > The fact that these suggestions are so trivial really highlight how great this is, Phillip. It’s exciting to see.
>
> Yeah, this is great Phillip, thanks.
>
> David
>
>


--
Bret Dawson
Producer
Pectopah Productions Inc.
(416) 895-7635
bret@pectopah.com
www.pectopah.com

On Nov 15, 2009, at 4:22 PM, Bret Dawson wrote:

> I love the new wordmark, and I also love the blue. My one hesitation
> about the combination, though, is this: does it look too much like
> Facebook?

Yes. I will have more constructive feedback later today, I hope. Still, a vast, vast improvement. Nice work, Phillip!

On Nov 15, 2009, at 1:12 PM, Waldo Jaquith wrote:

> Many of them are looking for “PHP” and “MySQL.” Given that Bricolage supports both of those, I think we’d be very wise to display logos for both of those.

Is the php::Interpreter install still broken in v. 2.0?

-Matt

On Nov 16, 2009, at 8:28 AM, Matt Rolf wrote:
> On Nov 15, 2009, at 1:12 PM, Waldo Jaquith wrote:
>
>> Many of them are looking for “PHP” and “MySQL.” Given that
>> Bricolage supports both of those, I think we’d be very wise to
>> display logos for both of those.
>
> Is the php::Interpreter install still broken in v. 2.0?

I certainly haven't yet gotten it to work, though not for lack of
trying. (Writing these templates in Perl makes me want to hurl things
at my monitor. Perl people, just imagine having to write your own in
PHP. :) When we get PHP::Interpreter working, I very much look forward
to contributing some templates to make it easy for my fellow PHP users
to get started with writing templates.

Last I recall, I'd hit that install problem <http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/bricolage/users/35065
>, but found an entry on PerlMonks in which somebody was attempting
to solve it <http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=685156>. David left a
note there, encouraging the author to contribute his changes back to
PHP::Interpreter. That was about a year ago. David, did anything ever
come of that?

Best,
Waldo


---
Virginia Quarterly Review
One West Range, Box 400223
University of Virginia
Charlottesville, VA 22904-4223
434-243-4995

Many, many, thanks for all of the great, prompt, input. Please keep it
coming.

Few specific replies below:

On 15-Nov-09, at 3:12 PM, Waldo Jaquith wrote:

> I have one practical suggestion and one design suggestion. A great
> many middle-management types (and hurried folks like you and me) are
> scanning for keywords. Many of them are looking for “PHP” and
> “MySQL.” Given that Bricolage supports both of those, I think we’d
> be very wise to display logos for both of those.

Totally agree. I downloaded the MySQL badge, but forgot to include it
for some reason. Wasn't sure about PHP. David mentioned some others,
IIRC..?


> The design suggestion is simply that designed headers would help
> those very clever “Recent Project Activity” and “Planet Bricolage”
> boxes; right now they’re too drab,

Good suggestion.


> I think. Oh, and one other thing: the footer would be stronger if it
> said, simply, “The mature, no-bullshit, built-like-a-tank web
> publishing system.” Trimming down the language would actually make
> it stronger. (I love that, BTW!)


Love it. :-)


On 15-Nov-09, at 4:23 PM, Alex Krohn wrote:
> A few suggestions:
>
> * I would try and add three or four recognizable logos to the
> sportsnet.ca screenshot as a featured sites box. This quickly shows
> people that large organizations that they recognize are using this
> cms and
> shows that it is proven.

On 15-Nov-09, at 5:02 PM, David E. Wheeler wrote:
>
> +1. I was thinking of rotating screen grabs for that slot for
> various Bricolage-using organizations.

Sounds like we're all on the same page here: I was also thinking of
something that rotated / did a slideshow of various Bricolage-powered
sites.

Alex: do you think a set of logos would also be helpful, or will the
slideshow / rotator do the trick?


> * The second thing would be the real life demo, and I'd be happy to
> help
> out here in getting that setup.

Excellent. :-)


> I think a big "Try Now" and "Download
> Now" type button would be useful (I love it when their is a direct
> link
> to the download file). For me, when evaluating these type of
> products, I
> want to try it out really quickly to get a feel for it rather then
> read
> through feature lists.

Great. I'll plan for those two buttons: Try Now and Download Now.


On 15-Nov-09, at 6:22 PM, Bret Dawson wrote:

> The two slogans are terrific, especially post-Waldo:

Glad they're working. :-)


> Really, these lines work wonders in getting the message out. I
> sometimes
> tell people that Bricolage is "like magic crayons," because you can
> make
> it do anything. These are much better lines. :)

Humorously enough, the original quote I had half way down the page was
"Like a box of magic crayons -- Bret Dawson." Also, Scott pointed out
(off-list) that the quite I have there now is four years old and might
be a wee bit misleading (which I tend to agree with, in hindsight).
So, should anyone have other quotes that they'd like to throw my way,
please fire them over. Perhaps we can make the quotes change / rotate
too (or load a different one each time).


> I love the new wordmark, and I also love the blue. My one hesitation
> about the combination, though, is this: does it look too much like
> Facebook?

Heh. I hadn't even thought of that. That said, I suspect our target
audience are not heavy Facebook users (unlike Mr. Dawson!) and that
any similarity will be overlooked (but I'm open to alternate colour
suggestions too).


> Love the idea of a live demo. I know that the core of Phillip's
> message
> (and it's brilliant) is that Bricolage frees you from default
> templates.
> But should we think about loading the demo with some defaults, so that
> there's a little more for dabblers to play with?

An excellent idea. I wonder if we could think about just adapting an
open-source "theme" for a news site (from Wordpress or Movable Type),
e.g.:
http://www.majordojo.com/projects/movable-type/hybrid-news/index.php


On 16-Nov-09, at 10:28 AM, Matt Rolf wrote:

> Yes. I will have more constructive feedback later today, I hope.
> Still, a vast, vast improvement. Nice work, Phillip!

Once again, many thanks for the input. Please keep it coming and try
keep in mind these questions:

> * What's missing that would help you take the next step?
> * What's unnecessary and distracting?
> * What questions are you trying to answer in the first few seconds?



I'm hoping that we can encourage a few more people to take the next
step: a demo, a download, a question to the mailing list, etc.

Hasta pronto!

Phillip.

--
Phillip Smith // Simplifier of Technology // COMMUNITY BANDWIDTH
www.communitybandwidth.ca // www.phillipadsmith.com

On Nov 16, 2009, at 5:28 AM, Matt Rolf wrote:

>> Many of them are looking for “PHP” and “MySQL.” Given that Bricolage supports both of those, I think we’d be very wise to display logos for both of those.
>
> Is the php::Interpreter install still broken in v. 2.0?

No idea. It's not broken on Bricolage; the issue is building it with your local install of Perl. I haven't been able to build it in a while.

Best,

David

On Nov 16, 2009, at 6:21 AM, Waldo Jaquith wrote:

> Last I recall, I'd hit that install problem <http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/bricolage/users/35065>, but found an entry on PerlMonks in which somebody was attempting to solve it <http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=685156>. David left a note there, encouraging the author to contribute his changes back to PHP::Interpreter. That was about a year ago. David, did anything ever come of that?

No.

David

Whoa. This is all kinds of awesome. Since I'm late to the party,
I'll respond out-of-line (sorry, usenet-style-ocd-people out there):

* Overall layout - great
* Too facebooky? I don't think so - not really.
* Big download and demo buttons++
* Carousel of site screenshots++
* Wordmark: Awesome - needs to ship in 2.0 skin
* Colors: Awesome: need to ship in 2.0 skin. Current colors look
like my 7th grade Social Studies book (The three branches of American
government are...).
* Side feed boxes: need more contrast & greater line distinction

At first blush, it may be a touch content heavy - too many things
screaming for attention. Maybe the "built for serious hackers",
"Perfectionist's dream", etc. could be moved into a carousel with the
screenshots, which cycle, Hulu-like. That condenses things a bit, and
gives us a platform for future marketing copy (e.g., eventually add
success stories or use cases). That might make the whole thing a
little less overwhelming. When we have actual copy there, I'd cut it
to about half the length of the lipsum, maybe a third.

If the noise level comes down, so that the eye is drawn to fewer
things (main points/screen shots first, download/demo links second,
then content/feeds and everything else) it might make a stronger impact.

Bravo. This is a great design.

As soon as I get my 1.11.2 install working (that'll be another post),
I'd love to start hacking these colors and stuff in. Phillip: could
you share the source artwork for this? I really like the hashed
gradient in the blue bar up top, and would love to try that out in the
skin.

-Aaron

---------------------------------
Aaron Fuleki
Senior Web Architect
Denison University
740.587.5752
---------------------------------



On Nov 15, 2009, at 12:19 PM, Phillip Smith wrote:

>
> Hi all,
>
> Wanted to provide a quick update on my previous post (http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/bricolage/devel/37752
> ) about a new public web site for Bricolage to coincide with the
> Bricolage 2.0 release.
>
> Since receiving your feedback (thanks!), I've been working away at
> re-thinking and re-writing the copy for the bricolagecms.org site.
> Though far from complete, I recently moved on to sketching out some
> ideas for how the new site might look and how it might accommodate
> the new copy. I've completed a front page mock-up and would like
> your input, complaints, and constructive criticisms. ;-)
>
> Before you jump over there, however, I ask that you put yourself in
> the shoes of a person that would be evaluating Bricolage, e.g., a
> decision-maker at a large organization, a I/T or web development
> team member, a Perl hacker, etc. You're probably coming from a home-
> grown CMS, or an expensive proprietary system and looking for a
> serious, mature, and "enterprise class" alternative.
>
> Once you've transported yourself into that headspace, have a look
> and jot down the first thoughts that come to you mind:
> http://bricolage.indevelopment.ca/
>
> Feel free to also tell me:
>
> * What's missing that would help you take the next step?
> * What's unnecessary and distracting>
> * What questions are you trying to answer in the first few seconds?
>
> And, if you feel like helping out, the Photoshop source files are
> here:
> http://github.com/phillipadsmith/bricolagecms.org
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> Phillip.
>
> --
> Phillip Smith // Simplifier of Technology // COMMUNITY
> BANDWIDTH
> www.communitybandwidth.ca // www.phillipadsmith.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

On 16-Nov-09, at 7:02 PM, Aaron Fuleki wrote:

> Phillip: could you share the source artwork for this? I really like
> the hashed gradient in the blue bar up top, and would love to try
> that out in the skin.

Great feedback, Aaron. Super-helpful. :-)

You can find the Photoshop source online here:
http://github.com/phillipadsmith/bricolagecms.org

As more pages get fleshed out, and as things move from Photoshop to
HTML, I'll just keep updating that repository.

Phillip.

--
Phillip Smith // Simplifier of Technology // COMMUNITY BANDWIDTH
www.communitybandwidth.ca // www.phillipadsmith.com