Mailing List Archive

The apache-docs list (was: Re: Docs patch: VirtualHost)
On Wed, 6 Sep 2000, Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:

> Rich Bowen wrote:
> >
> > Just out of curiosity, am I doing something fundamentally wrong with
> > these patches, or am I sending them to the wrong place?
>
> No, you're sending them to the right place, but this list
> isn't very heavily populated with anyone but lurkers at the
> moment. My guess is that those who don't lurk either don't
> feel comfortable voicing an opinion (which they should get over),
> or else are swamped (like me). Be of good cheer, and be persistent.

Ken, I think you had a good idea in separating out the docs module from
the rest of httpd and I'm glad you worked so hard to get it done.
Unfortunately, I think the apache-docs list has a problem. There are
several of us who have tried to get action going here by posting
relatively small and non-controversial patches. In my opinion, the only
way more large scale discussions and actions will take place is if people
see results from the small stuff. This will show people that work here
will result in something, and encourage more participation. At the
moment, the opposite is happening: people are being discouraged because
their work gets "ignored".

At the moment, I believe that chances of getting a docs patch accepted are
higher if it is posted to new-httpd rather than apache-docs. I have
always been successful in getting someone there to commit a docs patch for
me (in about a dozen cases). I am about 1 for 3 getting patches committed
here -- even after being "persistent". What is the problem? People with
commit access aren't paying attention to this list, or don't have time to
do anything about it. (I'm not blaming anyone. This is just a fact.)

Solutions?
- Encourage more people from new-httpd to come hang out over here as well.
- Give commit access to some of the people hanging out here. (That was
the original purpose of splitting the repositories, right?)

Anyone else have ideas for how to "activate" this list?

Joshua.
Re: The apache-docs list (was: Re: Docs patch: VirtualHost) [ In reply to ]
>
> Anyone else have ideas for how to "activate" this list?

I agree with your analysis. I was posting small patches in the hopes
of getting noticed, as I had some ideas for larger things.

Specifically, I'd like to contribute tutorial and HOWTO type things.
I write a weekly column for ApacheToday. 90 days after they appear
on ApacheToday, I can do whatever I want with them. At least
that's how I understood my contract. I think that it would be neat
to turn them into a tutorial section for the Apache docs, since
that's the tone in which they are written. I'm just reaching
the 90 day mark on my first articles, and was hoping to get things
rolling on that.

I also came across a lot of stuff while I was working on
Apache Server Unleashed that was inconsistent, missing,
confusing, or just plain wrong. I'd like to go back through some
of that and contribute things for patching some of those.

So, so far as activating things, I've really just been testing
the waters. I'd be a little nervous about having commit access,
because I'd still want some of the real experts to look at what
I was writing. But I'm one of those strange people that really
enjoys writing documentation, and I just need a little
encouragement.

--Rich
www.apacheunleashed.com
Re: The apache-docs list (was: Re: Docs patch: VirtualHost) [ In reply to ]
On Wed, 6 Sep 2000, Joshua Slive wrote:

> Solutions?
> - Encourage more people from new-httpd to come hang out over here as well.
> - Give commit access to some of the people hanging out here. (That was
> the original purpose of splitting the repositories, right?)

we brought it up on a closed list for commiters and the general
consensus is (obviously) that it sucks and that it haven't been very
fair (to say the least) to those of you who have dedicated time and
efforts to contribute and have been "ignored".

More people with commit access should be on the list already and
after bringing the problem up I hope more of us with commit access
will be dedicating some more time here.

Another point that was brought up was that "new" people should be
sure to speak up when they feel they can help out with comments and
opinions. (Hint: there is more than 260 subscribers).

I also think that more people will get commit access soonish, but
I'm not really sure how that works around here (I'm usually only
involved with such things in the mod_perl project) so don't take my
word for it.

Thanks for contributing!


- ask (who'll take his part of the blame for "ignoring" the
fearless contributers to better docs)

--
ask bjoern hansen - <http://www.netcetera.dk/~ask/>
more than 70M impressions per day, <http://valueclick.com>
Re: The apache-docs list (was: Re: Docs patch: VirtualHost) [ In reply to ]
On Wed, 6 Sep 2000, Rich Bowen wrote:
[...]
> So, so far as activating things, I've really just been testing
> the waters. I'd be a little nervous about having commit access,
> because I'd still want some of the real experts to look at what
> I was writing.

Well, the committ-then-review system seems to work well enough for small
changes to the source code. I can't imagine why it wouldn't work for the
documentation. Anything that gets committed is sent both here and to the
main cvs mailing list, which many more of the developers read. I sure
someone will speak up if there is a mistake made.

On the other hand, of course, things that we aren't sure about or are
significant changes should be posted first for discussion.

--
Joshua Slive
slive@finance.commerce.ubc.ca
http://finance.commerce.ubc.ca/~slive/
Phone: (604) 822-1871
Re: The apache-docs list (was: Re: Docs patch: VirtualHost) [ In reply to ]
On Wed, 6 Sep 2000, Ask Bjoern Hansen wrote:
[...]
> Another point that was brought up was that "new" people should be
> sure to speak up when they feel they can help out with comments and
> opinions. (Hint: there is more than 260 subscribers).

The question is, how many of those people thought this was a general
apache discussion list, and are now desperately trying to get off ;-)
Here is a clue for those people: If you look at the full headers
of any email to the list, you will see that the way to get unsubscribed is
to send an email to apache-docs-unsubscribe@apache.org.

>
> I also think that more people will get commit access soonish, but
> I'm not really sure how that works around here (I'm usually only
> involved with such things in the mod_perl project) so don't take my
> word for it.

Thanks for the info. It looks like Rich Bowen and I now have commit
access. I'll try it out later today if I have time.

--
Joshua Slive
slive@finance.commerce.ubc.ca
http://finance.commerce.ubc.ca/~slive/
Phone: (604) 822-1871