Mailing List Archive

MirageOS and Unikernel.
Hello,Is it true that the Docker acquired the Unikernel technology and MirageOS?Thus, this technology is under Docker control and Xen can't use Unikernel without Docker license?
Cheers.
Re: MirageOS and Unikernel. [ In reply to ]
The Unikernel system was a company that invented the Unikernel. When Docker bought it then it mean the Docker owned Unikernel technology.Docker is for Red Hat and Red Hat working on KVM, thus...

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Re: MirageOS and Unikernel. [ In reply to ]
> The Unikernel system was a company that invented the Unikernel. When
> Docker bought it then it mean the Docker owned Unikernel technology.
> Docker is for Red Hat and Red Hat working on KVM, thus...

MirageOS is composed of many libraries, all of which have their own
license - generally ISC - with copyright going to the authors.

Docker acquired a team of people, not rights to a suit of software.
Re: MirageOS and Unikernel. [ In reply to ]
MirageOS is a project of Xen?Why for Unikernel the Ocaml programming language needed? Why not other programming languages?In "https://raw.githubusercontent.com/cetic/unikernels/master/MEDIA/vms-containers-unikernels.PNG" photo, the Unikernel for running each App using a separate Kernel? Or a Kernel run all Apps? In photo, two kernels == two Apps.


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On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 1:18 PM, Nick Betteridge<lists.nick.betteridge@gmail.com> wrote: > The Unikernel system was a company that invented the Unikernel. When
> Docker bought it then it mean the Docker owned Unikernel technology.
> Docker is for Red Hat and Red Hat working on KVM, thus...

MirageOS is composed of many libraries, all of which have their own
license - generally ISC - with copyright going to the authors.

Docker acquired a team of people, not rights to a suit of software.
Re: MirageOS and Unikernel. [ In reply to ]
My turn! Hi!

> On 10 Jul 2020, at 12:45, Jason Long <hack3rcon@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> MirageOS is a project of Xen?

Not sure what you mean by that…?
The Xen Project is a Linux Foundation Collaborative Project (or so its webpage says).
The Xen Project hosts Mirage OS as one of its unikernel projects.
Xen was one of the original targets for Mirage OS, though there are now quite a few others.

> Why for Unikernel the Ocaml programming language needed?

OCaml is not needed for a unikernel. It happens to be the language that Mirage OS used.
(And a mighty fine language it is too, or so I am told… ;)

> Why not other programming languages?

Why not indeed — there are many other unikernel projects that use other programming languages. Even C these days I hear. http://unikernel.org/projects/ <http://unikernel.org/projects/> has a (likely incomplete) list.

> In "https://raw.githubusercontent.com/cetic/unikernels/master/MEDIA/vms-containers-unikernels.PNG" photo, the Unikernel for running each App using a separate Kernel? Or a Kernel run all Apps? In photo, two kernels == two Apps.

I’m not sure where exactly is the source of that figure — but my gloss on it would be that the "unikernel apps” (labelled “VM”) each contain both the code you’d usually think of as being the app, plus the functionality for which an app would usually rely on a shared kernel as statically linked libraries. As a result labelling both identically as “Kernel” might be slightly misleading as the code represented could be different in each case (eg., the lefthand app might have a network stack but no filesystem, the righthand app might need a filesystem but no network).


>
>
>
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> On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 1:18 PM, Nick Betteridge
> <lists.nick.betteridge@gmail.com> wrote:
> > The Unikernel system was a company that invented the Unikernel. When
> > Docker bought it then it mean the Docker owned Unikernel technology.
> > Docker is for Red Hat and Red Hat working on KVM, thus...
>
>
> MirageOS is composed of many libraries, all of which have their own
> license - generally ISC - with copyright going to the authors.
>
> Docker acquired a team of people, not rights to a suit of software.
>


Richard Mortier
richard.mortier@cl.cam.ac.uk
Re: MirageOS and Unikernel. [ In reply to ]
Thank you Richard.Kernel == The libraries that an App need to run.Am I right?In the Unikernel, no operating system exist and the Xen play the role of OS. Is it true?The Xen hypervisor can do anything that an OS kernel do???The source of photo is: https://github.com/cetic/unikernels
Can you show me a clear and better diagram about Unikernel?

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Re: MirageOS and Unikernel. [ In reply to ]
> On 10 Jul 2020, at 16:00, Jason Long <hack3rcon@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Thank you Richard.
> Kernel == The libraries that an App need to run.
> Am I right?

In the context of a unikernel, I think that’s a reasonable analogy.
But those libraries will not perform all the functions you would normally expect an OS kernel to perform.

> In the Unikernel, no operating system exist and the Xen play the role of OS. Is it true?

"It depends.”
What do you mean by the operating system?
In terms of functionality, for a unikernel system, much of the functionality you would usually rely on the operating system to perform (in most cases, by a kernel) is provided by library code (unikernels — certainly Mirage OS — are strongly inspired by library operating systems). But not all — if you are using Xen as your host environment then yes, Xen will provide some of that functionality as well.

> The Xen hypervisor can do anything that an OS kernel do???

I don’t think that’s a well-formed question — first, you probably need to declare what an OS kernel can do.

> The source of photo is: https://github.com/cetic/unikernels <https://github.com/cetic/unikernels>
>
> Can you show me a clear and better diagram about Unikernel?

Well, it depends what you want the diagram to help explain. I don’t have any to hand right now.


Richard Mortier
richard.mortier@cl.cam.ac.uk
Re: MirageOS and Unikernel. [ In reply to ]
On Fri 10 Jul 2020 at 17:05, Jason Long <hack3rcon@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Thank you Richard.
> Kernel == The libraries that an App need to run.
>
NO

> Am I right?
> In the Unikernel, no operating system exist and the Xen play the role of
> OS. Is it true?
>
NO

> The Xen hypervisor can do anything that an OS kernel do???
>
NO

> The source of photo is: https://github.com/cetic/unikernels
>
> Can you show me a clear and better diagram about Unikernel?
>

The name unikernel means many different things. But a real unikernel has a
definition.
It does not need any hypervisor. It essentially needs a Virtual Machine
Monitor layer that has nothing to do with Virtual Machine (VM).
First of all, OS libraries, meaning the OS split into libraries, are linked
to the app binary.
No OS is needed anymore.
Have a look at Rumprun unikernel for more information, and forget
Docker’stuff.

>
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Re: MirageOS and Unikernel. [ In reply to ]
Thanks.Consider Xen Dom0, it is based on Linux. When Unikernel running on Xen then its mean that it running on Linux!!!Can Xen without Dom0 handle the Unikernel Apps?Thus, Unikernel Apps need a kernel like linux to work. Am I right?All functions of an applications packed in Unikernel? For example, Nginx using many libraries and OS components then how it can be convert to Unikernel?


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On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 8:36 PM, Richard Mortier<richard.mortier@cl.cam.ac.uk> wrote:


On 10 Jul 2020, at 16:00, Jason Long <hack3rcon@yahoo.com> wrote:
Thank you Richard.Kernel == The libraries that an App need to run.Am I right?

In the context of a unikernel, I think that’s a reasonable analogy.But those libraries will not perform all the functions you would normally expect an OS kernel to perform.

In the Unikernel, no operating system exist and the Xen play the role of OS. Is it true?

"It depends.”What do you mean by the operating system?In terms of functionality, for a unikernel system, much of the functionality you would usually rely on the operating system to perform (in most cases, by a kernel) is provided by library code (unikernels — certainly Mirage OS — are strongly inspired by library operating systems). But not all — if you are using Xen as your host environment then yes, Xen will provide some of that functionality as well.

The Xen hypervisor can do anything that an OS kernel do???

I don’t think that’s a well-formed question — first, you probably need to declare what an OS kernel can do.

The source of photo is: https://github.com/cetic/unikernels
Can you show me a clear and better diagram about Unikernel?

Well, it depends what you want the diagram to help explain. I don’t have any to hand right now.
—  Richard Mortierrichard.mortier@cl.cam.ac.uk
Re: MirageOS and Unikernel. [ In reply to ]
The Rumprun unikernel is KVM. I like Xen.

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On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 11:20 PM, Bela Berde<bela.berde@gmail.com> wrote:

On Fri 10 Jul 2020 at 17:05, Jason Long <hack3rcon@yahoo.com> wrote:

Thank you Richard.Kernel == The libraries that an App need to run.
NO
Am I right?In the Unikernel, no operating system exist and the Xen play the role of OS. Is it true?
NO
The Xen hypervisor can do anything that an OS kernel do???
NO
The source of photo is: https://github.com/cetic/unikernels
Can you show me a clear and better diagram about Unikernel?

The name unikernel means many different things. But a real unikernel has a definition. It does not need any hypervisor. It essentially needs a Virtual Machine Monitor layer that has nothing to do with Virtual Machine (VM). First of all, OS libraries, meaning the OS split into libraries, are linked to the app binary. No OS is needed anymore. Have a look at Rumprun unikernel for more information, and forget Docker’stuff. 

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