Mailing List Archive

Re: Wikimania-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 1
Is there at present any metric by which previous scholarship attendees are
judged on their dissemination of Wikimania experiences after the
conference? The complaint being brought up is not only about awardees
getting repeat scholarships, but failing to enrich their communities
afterwards with what they learned / what it was like / who they met / what
they will do now. With a limited number of scholarships available, it is
true that the attendees are expected to share their good fortune with those
who couldn't attend.

If nothing like that is in place, could it not be added? For example, a
field on the application: "were you awarded a scholarship last year (and
attended)?" "If yes, please describe (and provide links where possible) to
the activities and discussions you organised with your community regarding
your experience at Wikimania". If a sufficiently good and detailed response
is not provided, the application can receive a lower score (or possibly be
discarded...? I'm not au fait with the process).

Julia W

On 1 June 2018 at 13:00, <wikimania-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:

> Send Wikimania-l mailing list submissions to
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Update on Wikimania '18 (Pine W)
> 2. Re: Update on Wikimania '18 (cs)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 18:31:08 -0700
> From: Pine W <wiki.pine@gmail.com>
> To: "Wikimania general list (open subscription)"
> <wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
> Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Update on Wikimania '18
> Message-ID:
> <CAF=dyJinVGV5eM7vBi7SFDLcqyLP4yakDa=VckDJZ4rPN76K1A@mail.gmail.
> com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Harry, I recall hearing that there was a push a year or two back to alter
> the proportion of presentations at Wikimania so that there were fewer WMF
> presentations and more community presentations. I don't know if that was a
> one time event or if that's ongoing. I have never been to Wikimania, and
> have no plans to go in the foreseeable future, but I watch what happens
> with Wikimania partly because it's an expensive operation in terms of
> financial cost and in terms of volunteer time. Also, the scholarship system
> is a perennial point of friction.
>
> Dariusz or Ellie, are there any thoughts at WMF about doing a full review
> of the scholarship system and the value of Wikimania to the community? With
> WMF spending so much money on Wikimania year after year, and volunteers
> spending so much time on Wikimania year after year, I think that it would
> make sense to do this type of review, which might be possible to
> synchronize with WMF's strategy process. I am very interested in ensuring
> that there are SMART goals being achieved with all of the money and time
> that goes into Wikimania. At the same time, I think that the scholarship
> system could be reviewed to consider the strategic priorities for
> scholarships and how to align those priorities to SMART goals. I don't
> envision reducing funding for Wikimania and scholarships, but I think that
> some re-thinking and evaluation would be good to align funding with the WMF
> strategic plan and with SMART goals.
>
> Pine
> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
>
> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 12:31 PM, Harry Mitchell <hjmwiki@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Since you raise chapter scholarships, it would be nice to see some of the
> > other big chapters (and to some extent the WMF) spending more on
> > scholarships for rank-and-file Wikimedians rather than staff and board
> > members. That might help with the perception that Wikimania is the same
> old
> > faces year in, year out.
> >
> > Harry Mitchell
> > http://enwp.org/User:HJ
> > +44 (0) 7507 536 971
> > Skype: harry_j_mitchell
> >
> -------------- next part --------------
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> URL: <https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimania-l/
> attachments/20180531/42687ccd/attachment-0001.html>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 08:58:35 +0700
> From: cs <cs@edubkk.org>
> To: "Wikimania general list (open subscription)"
> <wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
> Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Update on Wikimania '18
> Message-ID: <28D68047-E5DC-4B96-BF0C-A9A2DA30ADDC@edubkk.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I have attended several Wikimanias.
> I would have thought that with the Wikipedias being voluntary
> contributed and managed projects, that the conference shoud have a sharp
> focus on attendance and presentations by the communities.
> However, this is not the case. Presentation time is, IMO, excessively
> allocated to various speakers from the salaried staff.
> This has been brought up on several occasions.
> In some instances, some presentations have had almost duplicate content.
> Many Foundations take on a promotional aspect of the WMF’s work.
> The credit for the entire movement should go to the community
> volunteers.
>
> Kudpung
>
> > On 01, Jun2018, at 08:31, Pine W <wiki.pine@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Harry, I recall hearing that there was a push a year or two back to
> alter the proportion of presentations at Wikimania so that there were fewer
> WMF presentations and more community presentations. I don't know if that
> was a one time event or if that's ongoing. I have never been to Wikimania,
> and have no plans to go in the foreseeable future, but I watch what happens
> with Wikimania partly because it's an expensive operation in terms of
> financial cost and in terms of volunteer time. Also, the scholarship system
> is a perennial point of friction.
> >
> > Dariusz or Ellie, are there any thoughts at WMF about doing a full
> review of the scholarship system and the value of Wikimania to the
> community? With WMF spending so much money on Wikimania year after year,
> and volunteers spending so much time on Wikimania year after year, I think
> that it would make sense to do this type of review, which might be possible
> to synchronize with WMF's strategy process. I am very interested in
> ensuring that there are SMART goals being achieved with all of the money
> and time that goes into Wikimania. At the same time, I think that the
> scholarship system could be reviewed to consider the strategic priorities
> for scholarships and how to align those priorities to SMART goals. I don't
> envision reducing funding for Wikimania and scholarships, but I think that
> some re-thinking and evaluation would be good to align funding with the WMF
> strategic plan and with SMART goals.
> >
> > Pine
> > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine <https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/User:Pine> )
> >
> > On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 12:31 PM, Harry Mitchell <hjmwiki@gmail.com
> <mailto:hjmwiki@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > Since you raise chapter scholarships, it would be nice to see some of
> the other big chapters (and to some extent the WMF) spending more on
> scholarships for rank-and-file Wikimedians rather than staff and board
> members. That might help with the perception that Wikimania is the same old
> faces year in, year out.
> >
> > Harry Mitchell
> > http://enwp.org/User:HJ <http://enwp.org/User:HJ>
> > +44 (0) 7507 536 971
> > Skype: harry_j_mitchell
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimania-l mailing list
> > Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Wikimania-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 1
> *******************************************
>
Re: Wikimania-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 1 [ In reply to ]
I think that is already included in scholarship applications, if I remember correctly.

Greetings,

Sjoerd de Bruin

> Op 1 jun. 2018, om 17:06 heeft Julie Workman <mlle.julie.w@gmail.com> het volgende geschreven:
>
> Is there at present any metric by which previous scholarship attendees are judged on their dissemination of Wikimania experiences after the conference? The complaint being brought up is not only about awardees getting repeat scholarships, but failing to enrich their communities afterwards with what they learned / what it was like / who they met / what they will do now. With a limited number of scholarships available, it is true that the attendees are expected to share their good fortune with those who couldn't attend.
>
> If nothing like that is in place, could it not be added? For example, a field on the application: "were you awarded a scholarship last year (and attended)?" "If yes, please describe (and provide links where possible) to the activities and discussions you organised with your community regarding your experience at Wikimania". If a sufficiently good and detailed response is not provided, the application can receive a lower score (or possibly be discarded...? I'm not au fait with the process).
>
> Julia W
>
> On 1 June 2018 at 13:00, <wikimania-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:wikimania-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org>> wrote:
> Send Wikimania-l mailing list submissions to
> wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l>
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> wikimania-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:wikimania-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org>
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> wikimania-l-owner@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:wikimania-l-owner@lists.wikimedia.org>
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Wikimania-l digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Update on Wikimania '18 (Pine W)
> 2. Re: Update on Wikimania '18 (cs)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 18:31:08 -0700
> From: Pine W <wiki.pine@gmail.com <mailto:wiki.pine@gmail.com>>
> To: "Wikimania general list (open subscription)"
> <wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>>
> Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Update on Wikimania '18
> Message-ID:
> <CAF=dyJinVGV5eM7vBi7SFDLcqyLP4yakDa=VckDJZ4rPN76K1A@mail.gmail.com <mailto:VckDJZ4rPN76K1A@mail.gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Harry, I recall hearing that there was a push a year or two back to alter
> the proportion of presentations at Wikimania so that there were fewer WMF
> presentations and more community presentations. I don't know if that was a
> one time event or if that's ongoing. I have never been to Wikimania, and
> have no plans to go in the foreseeable future, but I watch what happens
> with Wikimania partly because it's an expensive operation in terms of
> financial cost and in terms of volunteer time. Also, the scholarship system
> is a perennial point of friction.
>
> Dariusz or Ellie, are there any thoughts at WMF about doing a full review
> of the scholarship system and the value of Wikimania to the community? With
> WMF spending so much money on Wikimania year after year, and volunteers
> spending so much time on Wikimania year after year, I think that it would
> make sense to do this type of review, which might be possible to
> synchronize with WMF's strategy process. I am very interested in ensuring
> that there are SMART goals being achieved with all of the money and time
> that goes into Wikimania. At the same time, I think that the scholarship
> system could be reviewed to consider the strategic priorities for
> scholarships and how to align those priorities to SMART goals. I don't
> envision reducing funding for Wikimania and scholarships, but I think that
> some re-thinking and evaluation would be good to align funding with the WMF
> strategic plan and with SMART goals.
>
> Pine
> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine> )
>
> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 12:31 PM, Harry Mitchell <hjmwiki@gmail.com <mailto:hjmwiki@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> > Since you raise chapter scholarships, it would be nice to see some of the
> > other big chapters (and to some extent the WMF) spending more on
> > scholarships for rank-and-file Wikimedians rather than staff and board
> > members. That might help with the perception that Wikimania is the same old
> > faces year in, year out.
> >
> > Harry Mitchell
> > http://enwp.org/User:HJ <http://enwp.org/User:HJ>
> > +44 (0) 7507 536 971
> > Skype: harry_j_mitchell
> >
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimania-l/attachments/20180531/42687ccd/attachment-0001.html <https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimania-l/attachments/20180531/42687ccd/attachment-0001.html>>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 08:58:35 +0700
> From: cs <cs@edubkk.org <mailto:cs@edubkk.org>>
> To: "Wikimania general list (open subscription)"
> <wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>>
> Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Update on Wikimania '18
> Message-ID: <28D68047-E5DC-4B96-BF0C-A9A2DA30ADDC@edubkk.org <mailto:28D68047-E5DC-4B96-BF0C-A9A2DA30ADDC@edubkk.org>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I have attended several Wikimanias.
> I would have thought that with the Wikipedias being voluntary contributed and managed projects, that the conference shoud have a sharp focus on attendance and presentations by the communities.
> However, this is not the case. Presentation time is, IMO, excessively allocated to various speakers from the salaried staff.
> This has been brought up on several occasions.
> In some instances, some presentations have had almost duplicate content.
> Many Foundations take on a promotional aspect of the WMF’s work.
> The credit for the entire movement should go to the community volunteers.
>
> Kudpung
>
> > On 01, Jun2018, at 08:31, Pine W <wiki.pine@gmail.com <mailto:wiki.pine@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Harry, I recall hearing that there was a push a year or two back to alter the proportion of presentations at Wikimania so that there were fewer WMF presentations and more community presentations. I don't know if that was a one time event or if that's ongoing. I have never been to Wikimania, and have no plans to go in the foreseeable future, but I watch what happens with Wikimania partly because it's an expensive operation in terms of financial cost and in terms of volunteer time. Also, the scholarship system is a perennial point of friction.
> >
> > Dariusz or Ellie, are there any thoughts at WMF about doing a full review of the scholarship system and the value of Wikimania to the community? With WMF spending so much money on Wikimania year after year, and volunteers spending so much time on Wikimania year after year, I think that it would make sense to do this type of review, which might be possible to synchronize with WMF's strategy process. I am very interested in ensuring that there are SMART goals being achieved with all of the money and time that goes into Wikimania. At the same time, I think that the scholarship system could be reviewed to consider the strategic priorities for scholarships and how to align those priorities to SMART goals. I don't envision reducing funding for Wikimania and scholarships, but I think that some re-thinking and evaluation would be good to align funding with the WMF strategic plan and with SMART goals.
> >
> > Pine
> > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine>> )
> >
> > On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 12:31 PM, Harry Mitchell <hjmwiki@gmail.com <mailto:hjmwiki@gmail.com> <mailto:hjmwiki@gmail.com <mailto:hjmwiki@gmail.com>>> wrote:
> > Since you raise chapter scholarships, it would be nice to see some of the other big chapters (and to some extent the WMF) spending more on scholarships for rank-and-file Wikimedians rather than staff and board members. That might help with the perception that Wikimania is the same old faces year in, year out.
> >
> > Harry Mitchell
> > http://enwp.org/User:HJ <http://enwp.org/User:HJ> <http://enwp.org/User:HJ <http://enwp.org/User:HJ>>
> > +44 (0) 7507 536 971
> > Skype: harry_j_mitchell
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimania-l mailing list
> > Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l>
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Wikimania-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 1
> *******************************************
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Re: Wikimania-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 1 [ In reply to ]
there is a reporting component, but in some cases the benefit is not what a
person brings back, its the local experiences they share while there that
really matters. Overall the exchanging of knowledge and the building of
relationships is the key value of Wikimanias yet when it comes to reporting
its the immediate numbers that get focus, nowhere have the wmf gone back to
recipients 2,3 or 4 years later to see what the impact was and if that
continued beyond the immediate post event reporting.

Maybe the scholarship process could open earlier so that more time can be
invested in the selection process, its would also give more time to arrange
visas and help more people plan ahead



On 1 June 2018 at 23:07, Sjoerd de Bruin <sjoerddebruin@me.com> wrote:

> I think that is already included in scholarship applications, if I
> remember correctly.
>
> Greetings,
>
> Sjoerd de Bruin
>
> Op 1 jun. 2018, om 17:06 heeft Julie Workman <mlle.julie.w@gmail.com> het
> volgende geschreven:
>
> Is there at present any metric by which previous scholarship attendees are
> judged on their dissemination of Wikimania experiences after the
> conference? The complaint being brought up is not only about awardees
> getting repeat scholarships, but failing to enrich their communities
> afterwards with what they learned / what it was like / who they met / what
> they will do now. With a limited number of scholarships available, it is
> true that the attendees are expected to share their good fortune with those
> who couldn't attend.
>
> If nothing like that is in place, could it not be added? For example, a
> field on the application: "were you awarded a scholarship last year (and
> attended)?" "If yes, please describe (and provide links where possible) to
> the activities and discussions you organised with your community regarding
> your experience at Wikimania". If a sufficiently good and detailed response
> is not provided, the application can receive a lower score (or possibly be
> discarded...? I'm not au fait with the process).
>
> Julia W
>
> On 1 June 2018 at 13:00, <wikimania-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
>
>> Send Wikimania-l mailing list submissions to
>> wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> wikimania-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> wikimania-l-owner@lists.wikimedia.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Wikimania-l digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: Update on Wikimania '18 (Pine W)
>> 2. Re: Update on Wikimania '18 (cs)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 18:31:08 -0700
>> From: Pine W <wiki.pine@gmail.com>
>> To: "Wikimania general list (open subscription)"
>> <wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Update on Wikimania '18
>> Message-ID:
>> <CAF=dyJinVGV5eM7vBi7SFDLcqyLP4yakDa=VckDJZ4rPN76K1A@mail.
>> gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Harry, I recall hearing that there was a push a year or two back to alter
>> the proportion of presentations at Wikimania so that there were fewer WMF
>> presentations and more community presentations. I don't know if that was a
>> one time event or if that's ongoing. I have never been to Wikimania, and
>> have no plans to go in the foreseeable future, but I watch what happens
>> with Wikimania partly because it's an expensive operation in terms of
>> financial cost and in terms of volunteer time. Also, the scholarship
>> system
>> is a perennial point of friction.
>>
>> Dariusz or Ellie, are there any thoughts at WMF about doing a full review
>> of the scholarship system and the value of Wikimania to the community?
>> With
>> WMF spending so much money on Wikimania year after year, and volunteers
>> spending so much time on Wikimania year after year, I think that it would
>> make sense to do this type of review, which might be possible to
>> synchronize with WMF's strategy process. I am very interested in ensuring
>> that there are SMART goals being achieved with all of the money and time
>> that goes into Wikimania. At the same time, I think that the scholarship
>> system could be reviewed to consider the strategic priorities for
>> scholarships and how to align those priorities to SMART goals. I don't
>> envision reducing funding for Wikimania and scholarships, but I think that
>> some re-thinking and evaluation would be good to align funding with the
>> WMF
>> strategic plan and with SMART goals.
>>
>> Pine
>> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
>>
>> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 12:31 PM, Harry Mitchell <hjmwiki@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Since you raise chapter scholarships, it would be nice to see some of
>> the
>> > other big chapters (and to some extent the WMF) spending more on
>> > scholarships for rank-and-file Wikimedians rather than staff and board
>> > members. That might help with the perception that Wikimania is the same
>> old
>> > faces year in, year out.
>> >
>> > Harry Mitchell
>> > http://enwp.org/User:HJ
>> > +44 (0) 7507 536 971
>> > Skype: harry_j_mitchell
>> >
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimania-l/attachmen
>> ts/20180531/42687ccd/attachment-0001.html>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 08:58:35 +0700
>> From: cs <cs@edubkk.org>
>> To: "Wikimania general list (open subscription)"
>> <wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Update on Wikimania '18
>> Message-ID: <28D68047-E5DC-4B96-BF0C-A9A2DA30ADDC@edubkk.org>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> I have attended several Wikimanias.
>> I would have thought that with the Wikipedias being voluntary
>> contributed and managed projects, that the conference shoud have a sharp
>> focus on attendance and presentations by the communities.
>> However, this is not the case. Presentation time is, IMO, excessively
>> allocated to various speakers from the salaried staff.
>> This has been brought up on several occasions.
>> In some instances, some presentations have had almost duplicate content.
>> Many Foundations take on a promotional aspect of the WMF’s work.
>> The credit for the entire movement should go to the community
>> volunteers.
>>
>> Kudpung
>>
>> > On 01, Jun2018, at 08:31, Pine W <wiki.pine@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Harry, I recall hearing that there was a push a year or two back to
>> alter the proportion of presentations at Wikimania so that there were fewer
>> WMF presentations and more community presentations. I don't know if that
>> was a one time event or if that's ongoing. I have never been to Wikimania,
>> and have no plans to go in the foreseeable future, but I watch what happens
>> with Wikimania partly because it's an expensive operation in terms of
>> financial cost and in terms of volunteer time. Also, the scholarship system
>> is a perennial point of friction.
>> >
>> > Dariusz or Ellie, are there any thoughts at WMF about doing a full
>> review of the scholarship system and the value of Wikimania to the
>> community? With WMF spending so much money on Wikimania year after year,
>> and volunteers spending so much time on Wikimania year after year, I think
>> that it would make sense to do this type of review, which might be possible
>> to synchronize with WMF's strategy process. I am very interested in
>> ensuring that there are SMART goals being achieved with all of the money
>> and time that goes into Wikimania. At the same time, I think that the
>> scholarship system could be reviewed to consider the strategic priorities
>> for scholarships and how to align those priorities to SMART goals. I don't
>> envision reducing funding for Wikimania and scholarships, but I think that
>> some re-thinking and evaluation would be good to align funding with the WMF
>> strategic plan and with SMART goals.
>> >
>> > Pine
>> > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine <
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine> )
>> >
>> > On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 12:31 PM, Harry Mitchell <hjmwiki@gmail.com
>> <mailto:hjmwiki@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> > Since you raise chapter scholarships, it would be nice to see some of
>> the other big chapters (and to some extent the WMF) spending more on
>> scholarships for rank-and-file Wikimedians rather than staff and board
>> members. That might help with the perception that Wikimania is the same old
>> faces year in, year out.
>> >
>> > Harry Mitchell
>> > http://enwp.org/User:HJ <http://enwp.org/User:HJ>
>> > +44 (0) 7507 536 971
>> > Skype: harry_j_mitchell
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Wikimania-l mailing list
>> > Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimania-l/attachmen
>> ts/20180601/da922580/attachment-0001.html>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of Wikimania-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 1
>> *******************************************
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>


--
GN.
Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page
WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
Out now: A.Gaynor, P. Newman and P. Jennings (eds.), *Never Again:
Reflections on Environmental Responsibility after Roe 8*, UWAP, 2017. Order
here
<https://uwap.uwa.edu.au/products/never-again-reflections-on-environmental-responsibility-after-roe-8>
.
Re: Wikimania-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 1 [ In reply to ]
Concurring with Gnangarra: equally , if not much more important, is the invaluable face-to-face opportunity to discuss projects on which people work together online - and with the WMF if they are involved. There is no substitute for it - especially for en.Wiki whose volunteers are spread around the entire globe. The impact I brought back from Wikimanias was in 2012 in D.C. which resulted in the creation of the NewpagesFeed/Curation tools, and Italy 2016 which finally resulted in ACTRIAL this year after years of wrangling - both major Wikipedia features/policies requiring the consent of senior WMF staff. Admittedly my attendance doesn't do much for Thailand where I actually live as an expat.

The scholarships system does not take this kind of work for the movement by people who need to be present at these meetings into consideration, and I’m sure this is equally important for volunteers, who just for example, are dedicated to closing the gender gap, making Wikipedia more accessible in the 'Global South’, and discussing policies and technical issues.

There is also the point I mentioned earlier that there needs to be more coordination between the scholarships committe and the presentations committee for the people who have developed significant presentations only to be rejected at the last minute, or even after their arrival at the conference. In my experience, plenty of presentations are not actually of major importance or interest, and maybe this is one of the reasons, as mentioned by Gnangarra why the process should be begun earlier.


Kudpung


> On 01, Jun2018, at 22:31, Gnangarra <gnangarra@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> there is a reporting component, but in some cases the benefit is not what a person brings back, its the local experiences they share while there that really matters. Overall the exchanging of knowledge and the building of relationships is the key value of Wikimanias yet when it comes to reporting its the immediate numbers that get focus, nowhere have the wmf gone back to recipients 2,3 or 4 years later to see what the impact was and if that continued beyond the immediate post event reporting.
>
> Maybe the scholarship process could open earlier so that more time can be invested in the selection process, its would also give more time to arrange visas and help more people plan ahead
>
>
>
> On 1 June 2018 at 23:07, Sjoerd de Bruin <sjoerddebruin@me.com <mailto:sjoerddebruin@me.com>> wrote:
> I think that is already included in scholarship applications, if I remember correctly.
>
> Greetings,
>
> Sjoerd de Bruin
>
>> Op 1 jun. 2018, om 17:06 heeft Julie Workman <mlle.julie.w@gmail.com <mailto:mlle.julie.w@gmail.com>> het volgende geschreven:
>>
>> Is there at present any metric by which previous scholarship attendees are judged on their dissemination of Wikimania experiences after the conference? The complaint being brought up is not only about awardees getting repeat scholarships, but failing to enrich their communities afterwards with what they learned / what it was like / who they met / what they will do now. With a limited number of scholarships available, it is true that the attendees are expected to share their good fortune with those who couldn't attend.
>>
>> If nothing like that is in place, could it not be added? For example, a field on the application: "were you awarded a scholarship last year (and attended)?" "If yes, please describe (and provide links where possible) to the activities and discussions you organised with your community regarding your experience at Wikimania". If a sufficiently good and detailed response is not provided, the application can receive a lower score (or possibly be discarded...? I'm not au fait with the process).
>>
>> Julia W
>>
>> On 1 June 2018 at 13:00, <wikimania-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:wikimania-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org>> wrote:
>> Send Wikimania-l mailing list submissions to
>> wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Wikimania-l digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: Update on Wikimania '18 (Pine W)
>> 2. Re: Update on Wikimania '18 (cs)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 18:31:08 -0700
>> From: Pine W <wiki.pine@gmail.com <mailto:wiki.pine@gmail.com>>
>> To: "Wikimania general list (open subscription)"
>> <wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>>
>> Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Update on Wikimania '18
>> Message-ID:
>> <CAF=dyJinVGV5eM7vBi7SFDLcqyLP4yakDa=VckDJZ4rPN76K1A@mail.gmail.com <mailto:VckDJZ4rPN76K1A@mail.gmail.com>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Harry, I recall hearing that there was a push a year or two back to alter
>> the proportion of presentations at Wikimania so that there were fewer WMF
>> presentations and more community presentations. I don't know if that was a
>> one time event or if that's ongoing. I have never been to Wikimania, and
>> have no plans to go in the foreseeable future, but I watch what happens
>> with Wikimania partly because it's an expensive operation in terms of
>> financial cost and in terms of volunteer time. Also, the scholarship system
>> is a perennial point of friction.
>>
>> Dariusz or Ellie, are there any thoughts at WMF about doing a full review
>> of the scholarship system and the value of Wikimania to the community? With
>> WMF spending so much money on Wikimania year after year, and volunteers
>> spending so much time on Wikimania year after year, I think that it would
>> make sense to do this type of review, which might be possible to
>> synchronize with WMF's strategy process. I am very interested in ensuring
>> that there are SMART goals being achieved with all of the money and time
>> that goes into Wikimania. At the same time, I think that the scholarship
>> system could be reviewed to consider the strategic priorities for
>> scholarships and how to align those priorities to SMART goals. I don't
>> envision reducing funding for Wikimania and scholarships, but I think that
>> some re-thinking and evaluation would be good to align funding with the WMF
>> strategic plan and with SMART goals.
>>
>> Pine
>> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine> )
>>
>> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 12:31 PM, Harry Mitchell <hjmwiki@gmail.com <mailto:hjmwiki@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> > Since you raise chapter scholarships, it would be nice to see some of the
>> > other big chapters (and to some extent the WMF) spending more on
>> > scholarships for rank-and-file Wikimedians rather than staff and board
>> > members. That might help with the perception that Wikimania is the same old
>> > faces year in, year out.
>> >
>> > Harry Mitchell
>> > http://enwp.org/User:HJ <http://enwp.org/User:HJ>
>> > +44 (0) 7507 536 971
>> > Skype: harry_j_mitchell
>> >
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimania-l/attachments/20180531/42687ccd/attachment-0001.html <https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimania-l/attachments/20180531/42687ccd/attachment-0001.html>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 08:58:35 +0700
>> From: cs <cs@edubkk.org <mailto:cs@edubkk.org>>
>> To: "Wikimania general list (open subscription)"
>> <wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>>
>> Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Update on Wikimania '18
>> Message-ID: <28D68047-E5DC-4B96-BF0C-A9A2DA30ADDC@edubkk.org <mailto:28D68047-E5DC-4B96-BF0C-A9A2DA30ADDC@edubkk.org>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> I have attended several Wikimanias.
>> I would have thought that with the Wikipedias being voluntary contributed and managed projects, that the conference shoud have a sharp focus on attendance and presentations by the communities.
>> However, this is not the case. Presentation time is, IMO, excessively allocated to various speakers from the salaried staff.
>> This has been brought up on several occasions.
>> In some instances, some presentations have had almost duplicate content.
>> Many Foundations take on a promotional aspect of the WMF’s work.
>> The credit for the entire movement should go to the community volunteers.
>>
>> Kudpung
>>
>> > On 01, Jun2018, at 08:31, Pine W <wiki.pine@gmail.com <mailto:wiki.pine@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Harry, I recall hearing that there was a push a year or two back to alter the proportion of presentations at Wikimania so that there were fewer WMF presentations and more community presentations. I don't know if that was a one time event or if that's ongoing. I have never been to Wikimania, and have no plans to go in the foreseeable future, but I watch what happens with Wikimania partly because it's an expensive operation in terms of financial cost and in terms of volunteer time. Also, the scholarship system is a perennial point of friction.
>> >
>> > Dariusz or Ellie, are there any thoughts at WMF about doing a full review of the scholarship system and the value of Wikimania to the community? With WMF spending so much money on Wikimania year after year, and volunteers spending so much time on Wikimania year after year, I think that it would make sense to do this type of review, which might be possible to synchronize with WMF's strategy process. I am very interested in ensuring that there are SMART goals being achieved with all of the money and time that goes into Wikimania. At the same time, I think that the scholarship system could be reviewed to consider the strategic priorities for scholarships and how to align those priorities to SMART goals. I don't envision reducing funding for Wikimania and scholarships, but I think that some re-thinking and evaluation would be good to align funding with the WMF strategic plan and with SMART goals.
>> >
>> > Pine
>> > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine>> )
>> >
>> > On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 12:31 PM, Harry Mitchell <hjmwiki@gmail.com <mailto:hjmwiki@gmail.com> <mailto:hjmwiki@gmail.com <mailto:hjmwiki@gmail.com>>> wrote:
>> > Since you raise chapter scholarships, it would be nice to see some of the other big chapters (and to some extent the WMF) spending more on scholarships for rank-and-file Wikimedians rather than staff and board members. That might help with the perception that Wikimania is the same old faces year in, year out.
>> >
>> > Harry Mitchell
>> > http://enwp.org/User:HJ <http://enwp.org/User:HJ> <http://enwp.org/User:HJ <http://enwp.org/User:HJ>>
>> > +44 (0) 7507 536 971
>> > Skype: harry_j_mitchell
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Wikimania-l mailing list
>> > Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
>> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l>
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
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>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of Wikimania-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 1
>> *******************************************
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l>
>
>
>
>
> --
> GN.
> Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page <https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page>
> WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra <http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra>
> Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com <http://gnangarra.redbubble.com/>
> Out now: A.Gaynor, P. Newman and P. Jennings (eds.), Never Again: Reflections on Environmental Responsibility after Roe 8, UWAP, 2017.  Order here <https://uwap.uwa.edu.au/products/never-again-reflections-on-environmental-responsibility-after-roe-8>.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Re: Wikimania-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 1 [ In reply to ]
That's true: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Wikimania_scholars/Reviewer%27s_guide#Score_adjustment_for_previous_scholars (that this is not the perfect system is well known to everyone in the committee which, as Mardetanha said, changes every year—it's still very hard to implement a process which does not favor these who are used to write good applications if we don't draw lots).

We had to start the scholarship processes at some point due to visa regulations, unfortunately before the program team could finish their process. For that reason, the scholarship committee proposed to save some money for people who could not hold their presentations without a scholarship. But in the end, it's the WMF who thankfully manages all the outcomes and the jury only evalutes the applications at some point.

Best,Martin/DerHexer

Von: Sjoerd de Bruin <sjoerddebruin@me.com>
An: Wikimania general list (open subscription) <wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
Gesendet: 17:15 Freitag, 1.Juni 2018
Betreff: Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 1

I think that is already included in scholarship applications, if I remember correctly.
Greetings,
Sjoerd de Bruin

Op 1 jun. 2018, om 17:06 heeft Julie Workman <mlle.julie.w@gmail.com> het volgende geschreven:
Is there at present any metric by which previous scholarship attendees are judged on their dissemination of Wikimania experiences after the conference? The complaint being brought up is not only about awardees getting repeat scholarships, but failing to enrich their communities afterwards with what they learned / what it was like / who they met / what they will do now. With a limited number of scholarships available, it is true that the attendees are expected to share their good fortune with those who couldn't attend.
If nothing like that is in place, could it not be added? For example, a field on the application: "were you awarded a scholarship last year (and attended)?" "If yes, please describe (and provide links where possible) to the activities and discussions you organised with your community regarding your experience at Wikimania". If a sufficiently good and detailed response is not provided, the application can receive a lower score (or possibly be discarded...? I'm not au fait with the process).
Julia W
On 1 June 2018 at 13:00, <wikimania-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:

Send Wikimania-l mailing list submissions to
        wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia. org

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Update on Wikimania '18 (Pine W)
   2. Re: Update on Wikimania '18 (cs)


------------------------------ ------------------------------ ----------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 18:31:08 -0700
From: Pine W <wiki.pine@gmail.com>
To: "Wikimania general list (open subscription)"
        <wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia. org>
Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Update on Wikimania '18
Message-ID:
        <CAF= dyJinVGV5eM7vBi7SFDLcqyLP4yakD a=VckDJZ4rPN76K1A@mail.gmail. com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Harry, I recall hearing that there was a push a year or two back to alter
the proportion of presentations at Wikimania so that there were fewer WMF
presentations and more community presentations. I don't know if that was a
one time event or if that's ongoing. I have never been to Wikimania, and
have no plans to go in the foreseeable future, but I watch what happens
with Wikimania partly because it's an expensive operation in terms of
financial cost and in terms of volunteer time. Also, the scholarship system
is a perennial point of friction.

Dariusz or Ellie, are there any thoughts at WMF about doing a full review
of the scholarship system and the value of Wikimania to the community? With
WMF spending so much money on Wikimania year after year, and volunteers
spending so much time on Wikimania year after year, I think that it would
make sense to do this type of review, which might be possible to
synchronize with WMF's strategy process. I am very interested in ensuring
that there are SMART goals being achieved with all of the money and time
that goes into Wikimania. At the same time, I think that the scholarship
system could be reviewed to consider the strategic priorities for
scholarships and how to align those priorities to SMART goals. I don't
envision reducing funding for Wikimania and scholarships, but I think that
some re-thinking and evaluation would be good to align funding with the WMF
strategic plan and with SMART goals.

Pine
( https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/User:Pine )

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 12:31 PM, Harry Mitchell <hjmwiki@gmail.com> wrote:

> Since you raise chapter scholarships, it would be nice to see some of the
> other big chapters (and to some extent the WMF) spending more on
> scholarships for rank-and-file Wikimedians rather than staff and board
> members. That might help with the perception that Wikimania is the same old
> faces year in, year out.
>
> Harry Mitchell
> http://enwp.org/User:HJ
> +44 (0) 7507 536 971
> Skype: harry_j_mitchell
>
-------------- next part --------------
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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 08:58:35 +0700
From: cs <cs@edubkk.org>
To: "Wikimania general list (open subscription)"
        <wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia. org>
Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Update on Wikimania '18
Message-ID: <28D68047-E5DC-4B96-BF0C- A9A2DA30ADDC@edubkk.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I  have attended several  Wikimanias.
I  would have thought  that  with  the Wikipedias being voluntary contributed and managed projects, that  the conference shoud have a sharp focus on  attendance and presentations by  the communities.
However, this is not  the case. Presentation  time is, IMO, excessively  allocated to  various  speakers from the salaried staff.
This has been brought  up  on several  occasions.
In some instances, some presentations have had almost  duplicate  content.
Many  Foundations take on  a promotional aspect  of the WMF’s work.
The credit  for  the entire movement  should go  to  the community volunteers.

Kudpung

> On 01, Jun2018, at 08:31, Pine W <wiki.pine@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Harry, I recall hearing that there was a push a year or two back to alter the proportion of presentations at Wikimania so that there were fewer WMF presentations and more community presentations. I don't know if that was a one time event or if that's ongoing. I have never been to Wikimania, and have no plans to go in the foreseeable future, but I watch what happens with Wikimania partly because it's an expensive operation in terms of financial cost and in terms of volunteer time. Also, the scholarship system is a perennial point of friction.
>
> Dariusz or Ellie, are there any thoughts at WMF about doing a full review of the scholarship system and the value of Wikimania to the community? With WMF spending so much money on Wikimania year after year, and volunteers spending so much time on Wikimania year after year, I think that it would make sense to do this type of review, which might be possible to synchronize with WMF's strategy process. I am very interested in ensuring that there are SMART goals being achieved with all of the money and time that goes into Wikimania. At the same time, I think that the scholarship system could be reviewed to consider the strategic priorities for scholarships and how to align those priorities to SMART goals. I don't envision reducing funding for Wikimania and scholarships, but I think that some re-thinking and evaluation would be good to align funding with the WMF strategic plan and with SMART goals.
>
> Pine
> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/User:Pine <https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/User:Pine> )
>
> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 12:31 PM, Harry Mitchell <hjmwiki@gmail.com <mailto:hjmwiki@gmail.com>> wrote:
> Since you raise chapter scholarships, it would be nice to see some of the other big chapters (and to some extent the WMF) spending more on scholarships for rank-and-file Wikimedians rather than staff and board members. That might help with the perception that Wikimania is the same old faces year in, year out.
>
> Harry Mitchell
> http://enwp.org/User:HJ <http://enwp.org/User:HJ>
> +44 (0) 7507 536 971
> Skype: harry_j_mitchell
>
> ______________________________ _________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia. org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/ mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

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------------------------------

Subject: Digest Footer

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------------------------------

End of Wikimania-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 1
****************************** *************


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Re: Wikimania-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 1 [ In reply to ]
Thinking about it, drawing lots might not be the silliest idea in the universe.

After all, ability to write a great application is at best a rough
proxy for actual impact. Why not have a less granular system that
filters out the "clear No"s and then allocate the remaining places by
ballot, taking into account the demographics/projects that need to be
represented?

Chris


On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 4:19 PM, DerHexer <derhexer@wikipedia.de> wrote:
> That's true:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Wikimania_scholars/Reviewer%27s_guide#Score_adjustment_for_previous_scholars
> (that this is not the perfect system is well known to everyone in the
> committee which, as Mardetanha said, changes every year—it's still very hard
> to implement a process which does not favor these who are used to write good
> applications if we don't draw lots).
>
> We had to start the scholarship processes at some point due to visa
> regulations, unfortunately before the program team could finish their
> process. For that reason, the scholarship committee proposed to save some
> money for people who could not hold their presentations without a
> scholarship. But in the end, it's the WMF who thankfully manages all the
> outcomes and the jury only evalutes the applications at some point.
>
> Best,
> Martin/DerHexer
>
>
> ________________________________
> Von: Sjoerd de Bruin <sjoerddebruin@me.com>
> An: Wikimania general list (open subscription)
> <wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
> Gesendet: 17:15 Freitag, 1.Juni 2018
> Betreff: Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 1
>
> I think that is already included in scholarship applications, if I remember
> correctly.
>
> Greetings,
>
> Sjoerd de Bruin
>
> Op 1 jun. 2018, om 17:06 heeft Julie Workman <mlle.julie.w@gmail.com> het
> volgende geschreven:
>
> Is there at present any metric by which previous scholarship attendees are
> judged on their dissemination of Wikimania experiences after the conference?
> The complaint being brought up is not only about awardees getting repeat
> scholarships, but failing to enrich their communities afterwards with what
> they learned / what it was like / who they met / what they will do now. With
> a limited number of scholarships available, it is true that the attendees
> are expected to share their good fortune with those who couldn't attend.
>
> If nothing like that is in place, could it not be added? For example, a
> field on the application: "were you awarded a scholarship last year (and
> attended)?" "If yes, please describe (and provide links where possible) to
> the activities and discussions you organised with your community regarding
> your experience at Wikimania". If a sufficiently good and detailed response
> is not provided, the application can receive a lower score (or possibly be
> discarded...? I'm not au fait with the process).
>
> Julia W
>
> On 1 June 2018 at 13:00, <wikimania-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
>
> Send Wikimania-l mailing list submissions to
> wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia. org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/ mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>
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>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Wikimania-l digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Update on Wikimania '18 (Pine W)
> 2. Re: Update on Wikimania '18 (cs)
>
>
> ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ----------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 18:31:08 -0700
> From: Pine W <wiki.pine@gmail.com>
> To: "Wikimania general list (open subscription)"
> <wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia. org>
> Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Update on Wikimania '18
> Message-ID:
> <CAF= dyJinVGV5eM7vBi7SFDLcqyLP4yakD a=VckDJZ4rPN76K1A@mail.gmail.
> com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Harry, I recall hearing that there was a push a year or two back to alter
> the proportion of presentations at Wikimania so that there were fewer WMF
> presentations and more community presentations. I don't know if that was a
> one time event or if that's ongoing. I have never been to Wikimania, and
> have no plans to go in the foreseeable future, but I watch what happens
> with Wikimania partly because it's an expensive operation in terms of
> financial cost and in terms of volunteer time. Also, the scholarship system
> is a perennial point of friction.
>
> Dariusz or Ellie, are there any thoughts at WMF about doing a full review
> of the scholarship system and the value of Wikimania to the community? With
> WMF spending so much money on Wikimania year after year, and volunteers
> spending so much time on Wikimania year after year, I think that it would
> make sense to do this type of review, which might be possible to
> synchronize with WMF's strategy process. I am very interested in ensuring
> that there are SMART goals being achieved with all of the money and time
> that goes into Wikimania. At the same time, I think that the scholarship
> system could be reviewed to consider the strategic priorities for
> scholarships and how to align those priorities to SMART goals. I don't
> envision reducing funding for Wikimania and scholarships, but I think that
> some re-thinking and evaluation would be good to align funding with the WMF
> strategic plan and with SMART goals.
>
> Pine
> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/User:Pine )
>
> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 12:31 PM, Harry Mitchell <hjmwiki@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Since you raise chapter scholarships, it would be nice to see some of the
>> other big chapters (and to some extent the WMF) spending more on
>> scholarships for rank-and-file Wikimedians rather than staff and board
>> members. That might help with the perception that Wikimania is the same
>> old
>> faces year in, year out.
>>
>> Harry Mitchell
>> http://enwp.org/User:HJ
>> +44 (0) 7507 536 971
>> Skype: harry_j_mitchell
>>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <https://lists.wikimedia.org/ pipermail/wikimania-l/
> attachments/20180531/42687ccd/ attachment-0001.html>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 08:58:35 +0700
> From: cs <cs@edubkk.org>
> To: "Wikimania general list (open subscription)"
> <wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia. org>
> Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Update on Wikimania '18
> Message-ID: <28D68047-E5DC-4B96-BF0C- A9A2DA30ADDC@edubkk.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I have attended several Wikimanias.
> I would have thought that with the Wikipedias being voluntary
> contributed and managed projects, that the conference shoud have a sharp
> focus on attendance and presentations by the communities.
> However, this is not the case. Presentation time is, IMO, excessively
> allocated to various speakers from the salaried staff.
> This has been brought up on several occasions.
> In some instances, some presentations have had almost duplicate content.
> Many Foundations take on a promotional aspect of the WMF’s work.
> The credit for the entire movement should go to the community
> volunteers.
>
> Kudpung
>
>> On 01, Jun2018, at 08:31, Pine W <wiki.pine@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Harry, I recall hearing that there was a push a year or two back to alter
>> the proportion of presentations at Wikimania so that there were fewer WMF
>> presentations and more community presentations. I don't know if that was a
>> one time event or if that's ongoing. I have never been to Wikimania, and
>> have no plans to go in the foreseeable future, but I watch what happens with
>> Wikimania partly because it's an expensive operation in terms of financial
>> cost and in terms of volunteer time. Also, the scholarship system is a
>> perennial point of friction.
>>
>> Dariusz or Ellie, are there any thoughts at WMF about doing a full review
>> of the scholarship system and the value of Wikimania to the community? With
>> WMF spending so much money on Wikimania year after year, and volunteers
>> spending so much time on Wikimania year after year, I think that it would
>> make sense to do this type of review, which might be possible to synchronize
>> with WMF's strategy process. I am very interested in ensuring that there are
>> SMART goals being achieved with all of the money and time that goes into
>> Wikimania. At the same time, I think that the scholarship system could be
>> reviewed to consider the strategic priorities for scholarships and how to
>> align those priorities to SMART goals. I don't envision reducing funding for
>> Wikimania and scholarships, but I think that some re-thinking and evaluation
>> would be good to align funding with the WMF strategic plan and with SMART
>> goals.
>>
>> Pine
>> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/User:Pine <https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>> wiki/User:Pine> )
>>
>> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 12:31 PM, Harry Mitchell <hjmwiki@gmail.com
>> <mailto:hjmwiki@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> Since you raise chapter scholarships, it would be nice to see some of the
>> other big chapters (and to some extent the WMF) spending more on
>> scholarships for rank-and-file Wikimedians rather than staff and board
>> members. That might help with the perception that Wikimania is the same old
>> faces year in, year out.
>>
>> Harry Mitchell
>> http://enwp.org/User:HJ <http://enwp.org/User:HJ>
>> +44 (0) 7507 536 971
>> Skype: harry_j_mitchell
>>
>> ______________________________ _________________
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia. org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/ mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> ______________________________ _________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia. org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/ mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Wikimania-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 1
> ****************************** *************
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>

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Re: Wikimania-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 1 [ In reply to ]
Chris,

I don’t think drawing lots is the solution. If anything, even more attention should be given to applicants’ including their editing history and or other active participation, and whether or not they have planned a presentation. I have to say I have met people at the conferences who admitted to me they simply made an application in the hope of receiving a scholarship and just got lucky. This of course is our fault as former committee members, but being on that commitee as it is organised, is one heck of a big job.

Kudpung

> On 05, Jun2018, at 22:53, Chris Keating <chriskeatingwiki@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thinking about it, drawing lots might not be the silliest idea in the universe.
>
> After all, ability to write a great application is at best a rough
> proxy for actual impact. Why not have a less granular system that
> filters out the "clear No"s and then allocate the remaining places by
> ballot, taking into account the demographics/projects that need to be
> represented?
>
> Chris
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 4:19 PM, DerHexer <derhexer@wikipedia.de> wrote:
>> That's true:
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Wikimania_scholars/Reviewer%27s_guide#Score_adjustment_for_previous_scholars
>> (that this is not the perfect system is well known to everyone in the
>> committee which, as Mardetanha said, changes every year—it's still very hard
>> to implement a process which does not favor these who are used to write good
>> applications if we don't draw lots).
>>
>> We had to start the scholarship processes at some point due to visa
>> regulations, unfortunately before the program team could finish their
>> process. For that reason, the scholarship committee proposed to save some
>> money for people who could not hold their presentations without a
>> scholarship. But in the end, it's the WMF who thankfully manages all the
>> outcomes and the jury only evalutes the applications at some point.
>>
>> Best,
>> Martin/DerHexer
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> Von: Sjoerd de Bruin <sjoerddebruin@me.com>
>> An: Wikimania general list (open subscription)
>> <wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
>> Gesendet: 17:15 Freitag, 1.Juni 2018
>> Betreff: Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 1
>>
>> I think that is already included in scholarship applications, if I remember
>> correctly.
>>
>> Greetings,
>>
>> Sjoerd de Bruin
>>
>> Op 1 jun. 2018, om 17:06 heeft Julie Workman <mlle.julie.w@gmail.com> het
>> volgende geschreven:
>>
>> Is there at present any metric by which previous scholarship attendees are
>> judged on their dissemination of Wikimania experiences after the conference?
>> The complaint being brought up is not only about awardees getting repeat
>> scholarships, but failing to enrich their communities afterwards with what
>> they learned / what it was like / who they met / what they will do now. With
>> a limited number of scholarships available, it is true that the attendees
>> are expected to share their good fortune with those who couldn't attend.
>>
>> If nothing like that is in place, could it not be added? For example, a
>> field on the application: "were you awarded a scholarship last year (and
>> attended)?" "If yes, please describe (and provide links where possible) to
>> the activities and discussions you organised with your community regarding
>> your experience at Wikimania". If a sufficiently good and detailed response
>> is not provided, the application can receive a lower score (or possibly be
>> discarded...? I'm not au fait with the process).
>>
>> Julia W
>>
>> On 1 June 2018 at 13:00, <wikimania-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>
>> Send Wikimania-l mailing list submissions to
>> wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia. org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/ mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> wikimania-l-request@lists. wikimedia.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> wikimania-l-owner@lists. wikimedia.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Wikimania-l digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: Update on Wikimania '18 (Pine W)
>> 2. Re: Update on Wikimania '18 (cs)
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ----------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 18:31:08 -0700
>> From: Pine W <wiki.pine@gmail.com>
>> To: "Wikimania general list (open subscription)"
>> <wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia. org>
>> Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Update on Wikimania '18
>> Message-ID:
>> <CAF= dyJinVGV5eM7vBi7SFDLcqyLP4yakD a=VckDJZ4rPN76K1A@mail.gmail.
>> com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Harry, I recall hearing that there was a push a year or two back to alter
>> the proportion of presentations at Wikimania so that there were fewer WMF
>> presentations and more community presentations. I don't know if that was a
>> one time event or if that's ongoing. I have never been to Wikimania, and
>> have no plans to go in the foreseeable future, but I watch what happens
>> with Wikimania partly because it's an expensive operation in terms of
>> financial cost and in terms of volunteer time. Also, the scholarship system
>> is a perennial point of friction.
>>
>> Dariusz or Ellie, are there any thoughts at WMF about doing a full review
>> of the scholarship system and the value of Wikimania to the community? With
>> WMF spending so much money on Wikimania year after year, and volunteers
>> spending so much time on Wikimania year after year, I think that it would
>> make sense to do this type of review, which might be possible to
>> synchronize with WMF's strategy process. I am very interested in ensuring
>> that there are SMART goals being achieved with all of the money and time
>> that goes into Wikimania. At the same time, I think that the scholarship
>> system could be reviewed to consider the strategic priorities for
>> scholarships and how to align those priorities to SMART goals. I don't
>> envision reducing funding for Wikimania and scholarships, but I think that
>> some re-thinking and evaluation would be good to align funding with the WMF
>> strategic plan and with SMART goals.
>>
>> Pine
>> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/User:Pine )
>>
>> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 12:31 PM, Harry Mitchell <hjmwiki@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Since you raise chapter scholarships, it would be nice to see some of the
>>> other big chapters (and to some extent the WMF) spending more on
>>> scholarships for rank-and-file Wikimedians rather than staff and board
>>> members. That might help with the perception that Wikimania is the same
>>> old
>>> faces year in, year out.
>>>
>>> Harry Mitchell
>>> http://enwp.org/User:HJ
>>> +44 (0) 7507 536 971
>>> Skype: harry_j_mitchell
>>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <https://lists.wikimedia.org/ pipermail/wikimania-l/
>> attachments/20180531/42687ccd/ attachment-0001.html>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 08:58:35 +0700
>> From: cs <cs@edubkk.org>
>> To: "Wikimania general list (open subscription)"
>> <wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia. org>
>> Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Update on Wikimania '18
>> Message-ID: <28D68047-E5DC-4B96-BF0C- A9A2DA30ADDC@edubkk.org>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> I have attended several Wikimanias.
>> I would have thought that with the Wikipedias being voluntary
>> contributed and managed projects, that the conference shoud have a sharp
>> focus on attendance and presentations by the communities.
>> However, this is not the case. Presentation time is, IMO, excessively
>> allocated to various speakers from the salaried staff.
>> This has been brought up on several occasions.
>> In some instances, some presentations have had almost duplicate content.
>> Many Foundations take on a promotional aspect of the WMF’s work.
>> The credit for the entire movement should go to the community
>> volunteers.
>>
>> Kudpung
>>
>>> On 01, Jun2018, at 08:31, Pine W <wiki.pine@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Harry, I recall hearing that there was a push a year or two back to alter
>>> the proportion of presentations at Wikimania so that there were fewer WMF
>>> presentations and more community presentations. I don't know if that was a
>>> one time event or if that's ongoing. I have never been to Wikimania, and
>>> have no plans to go in the foreseeable future, but I watch what happens with
>>> Wikimania partly because it's an expensive operation in terms of financial
>>> cost and in terms of volunteer time. Also, the scholarship system is a
>>> perennial point of friction.
>>>
>>> Dariusz or Ellie, are there any thoughts at WMF about doing a full review
>>> of the scholarship system and the value of Wikimania to the community? With
>>> WMF spending so much money on Wikimania year after year, and volunteers
>>> spending so much time on Wikimania year after year, I think that it would
>>> make sense to do this type of review, which might be possible to synchronize
>>> with WMF's strategy process. I am very interested in ensuring that there are
>>> SMART goals being achieved with all of the money and time that goes into
>>> Wikimania. At the same time, I think that the scholarship system could be
>>> reviewed to consider the strategic priorities for scholarships and how to
>>> align those priorities to SMART goals. I don't envision reducing funding for
>>> Wikimania and scholarships, but I think that some re-thinking and evaluation
>>> would be good to align funding with the WMF strategic plan and with SMART
>>> goals.
>>>
>>> Pine
>>> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/User:Pine <https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>>> wiki/User:Pine> )
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 12:31 PM, Harry Mitchell <hjmwiki@gmail.com
>>> <mailto:hjmwiki@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> Since you raise chapter scholarships, it would be nice to see some of the
>>> other big chapters (and to some extent the WMF) spending more on
>>> scholarships for rank-and-file Wikimedians rather than staff and board
>>> members. That might help with the perception that Wikimania is the same old
>>> faces year in, year out.
>>>
>>> Harry Mitchell
>>> http://enwp.org/User:HJ <http://enwp.org/User:HJ>
>>> +44 (0) 7507 536 971
>>> Skype: harry_j_mitchell
>>>
>>> ______________________________ _________________
>>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia. org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/ mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
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>> URL: <https://lists.wikimedia.org/ pipermail/wikimania-l/
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
>> ______________________________ _________________
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia. org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/ mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of Wikimania-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 1
>> ****************************** *************
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
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> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Re: Wikimania-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 1 [ In reply to ]
I am surprised to learn that the jury’s selection is a mere recommendation to the WMF. I was not aware of that.
I’m not sure that the program teams are ideally constituted. The choice of presentations and/or allocations of time slots for various activities has often left me baffled.

Kudpung

> On 05, Jun2018, at 22:19, DerHexer <derhexer@wikipedia.de> wrote:
>
> That's true: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Wikimania_scholars/Reviewer%27s_guide#Score_adjustment_for_previous_scholars (that this is not the perfect system is well known to everyone in the committee which, as Mardetanha said, changes every year—it's still very hard to implement a process which does not favor these who are used to write good applications if we don't draw lots).
>
> We had to start the scholarship processes at some point due to visa regulations, unfortunately before the program team could finish their process. For that reason, the scholarship committee proposed to save some money for people who could not hold their presentations without a scholarship. But in the end, it's the WMF who thankfully manages all the outcomes and the jury only evalutes the applications at some point.
>
> Best,
> Martin/DerHexer
>
>
> Von: Sjoerd de Bruin <sjoerddebruin@me.com>
> An: Wikimania general list (open subscription) <wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
> Gesendet: 17:15 Freitag, 1.Juni 2018
> Betreff: Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 1
>
> I think that is already included in scholarship applications, if I remember correctly.
>
> Greetings,
>
> Sjoerd de Bruin
>
>> Op 1 jun. 2018, om 17:06 heeft Julie Workman <mlle.julie.w@gmail.com <mailto:mlle.julie.w@gmail.com>> het volgende geschreven:
>>
>> Is there at present any metric by which previous scholarship attendees are judged on their dissemination of Wikimania experiences after the conference? The complaint being brought up is not only about awardees getting repeat scholarships, but failing to enrich their communities afterwards with what they learned / what it was like / who they met / what they will do now. With a limited number of scholarships available, it is true that the attendees are expected to share their good fortune with those who couldn't attend.
>>
>> If nothing like that is in place, could it not be added? For example, a field on the application: "were you awarded a scholarship last year (and attended)?" "If yes, please describe (and provide links where possible) to the activities and discussions you organised with your community regarding your experience at Wikimania". If a sufficiently good and detailed response is not provided, the application can receive a lower score (or possibly be discarded...? I'm not au fait with the process).
>>
>> Julia W
>>
>> On 1 June 2018 at 13:00, <wikimania-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:wikimania-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org>> wrote:
>> Send Wikimania-l mailing list submissions to
>> wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia. org <mailto:wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/ mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l>
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> wikimania-l-request@lists. wikimedia.org <mailto:wikimania-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org>
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> wikimania-l-owner@lists. wikimedia.org <mailto:wikimania-l-owner@lists.wikimedia.org>
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Wikimania-l digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: Update on Wikimania '18 (Pine W)
>> 2. Re: Update on Wikimania '18 (cs)
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ----------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 18:31:08 -0700
>> From: Pine W <wiki.pine@gmail.com <mailto:wiki.pine@gmail.com>>
>> To: "Wikimania general list (open subscription)"
>> <wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia. org <mailto:wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>>
>> Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Update on Wikimania '18
>> Message-ID:
>> <CAF= dyJinVGV5eM7vBi7SFDLcqyLP4yakD a=VckDJZ4rPN76K1A@mail.gmail. com <mailto:VckDJZ4rPN76K1A@mail.gmail.com>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Harry, I recall hearing that there was a push a year or two back to alter
>> the proportion of presentations at Wikimania so that there were fewer WMF
>> presentations and more community presentations. I don't know if that was a
>> one time event or if that's ongoing. I have never been to Wikimania, and
>> have no plans to go in the foreseeable future, but I watch what happens
>> with Wikimania partly because it's an expensive operation in terms of
>> financial cost and in terms of volunteer time. Also, the scholarship system
>> is a perennial point of friction.
>>
>> Dariusz or Ellie, are there any thoughts at WMF about doing a full review
>> of the scholarship system and the value of Wikimania to the community? With
>> WMF spending so much money on Wikimania year after year, and volunteers
>> spending so much time on Wikimania year after year, I think that it would
>> make sense to do this type of review, which might be possible to
>> synchronize with WMF's strategy process. I am very interested in ensuring
>> that there are SMART goals being achieved with all of the money and time
>> that goes into Wikimania. At the same time, I think that the scholarship
>> system could be reviewed to consider the strategic priorities for
>> scholarships and how to align those priorities to SMART goals. I don't
>> envision reducing funding for Wikimania and scholarships, but I think that
>> some re-thinking and evaluation would be good to align funding with the WMF
>> strategic plan and with SMART goals.
>>
>> Pine
>> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/User:Pine <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine> )
>>
>> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 12:31 PM, Harry Mitchell <hjmwiki@gmail.com <mailto:hjmwiki@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> > Since you raise chapter scholarships, it would be nice to see some of the
>> > other big chapters (and to some extent the WMF) spending more on
>> > scholarships for rank-and-file Wikimedians rather than staff and board
>> > members. That might help with the perception that Wikimania is the same old
>> > faces year in, year out.
>> >
>> > Harry Mitchell
>> > http://enwp.org/User:HJ <http://enwp.org/User:HJ>
>> > +44 (0) 7507 536 971
>> > Skype: harry_j_mitchell
>> >
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <https://lists.wikimedia.org/ pipermail/wikimania-l/ attachments/20180531/42687ccd/ attachment-0001.html <https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimania-l/attachments/20180531/42687ccd/attachment-0001.html>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 08:58:35 +0700
>> From: cs <cs@edubkk.org <mailto:cs@edubkk.org>>
>> To: "Wikimania general list (open subscription)"
>> <wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia. org <mailto:wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>>
>> Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Update on Wikimania '18
>> Message-ID: <28D68047-E5DC-4B96-BF0C- A9A2DA30ADDC@edubkk.org <mailto:28D68047-E5DC-4B96-BF0C-A9A2DA30ADDC@edubkk.org>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> I have attended several Wikimanias.
>> I would have thought that with the Wikipedias being voluntary contributed and managed projects, that the conference shoud have a sharp focus on attendance and presentations by the communities.
>> However, this is not the case. Presentation time is, IMO, excessively allocated to various speakers from the salaried staff.
>> This has been brought up on several occasions.
>> In some instances, some presentations have had almost duplicate content.
>> Many Foundations take on a promotional aspect of the WMF’s work.
>> The credit for the entire movement should go to the community volunteers.
>>
>> Kudpung
>>
>> > On 01, Jun2018, at 08:31, Pine W <wiki.pine@gmail.com <mailto:wiki.pine@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Harry, I recall hearing that there was a push a year or two back to alter the proportion of presentations at Wikimania so that there were fewer WMF presentations and more community presentations. I don't know if that was a one time event or if that's ongoing. I have never been to Wikimania, and have no plans to go in the foreseeable future, but I watch what happens with Wikimania partly because it's an expensive operation in terms of financial cost and in terms of volunteer time. Also, the scholarship system is a perennial point of friction.
>> >
>> > Dariusz or Ellie, are there any thoughts at WMF about doing a full review of the scholarship system and the value of Wikimania to the community? With WMF spending so much money on Wikimania year after year, and volunteers spending so much time on Wikimania year after year, I think that it would make sense to do this type of review, which might be possible to synchronize with WMF's strategy process. I am very interested in ensuring that there are SMART goals being achieved with all of the money and time that goes into Wikimania. At the same time, I think that the scholarship system could be reviewed to consider the strategic priorities for scholarships and how to align those priorities to SMART goals. I don't envision reducing funding for Wikimania and scholarships, but I think that some re-thinking and evaluation would be good to align funding with the WMF strategic plan and with SMART goals.
>> >
>> > Pine
>> > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/User:Pine <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/User:Pine <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine>> )
>> >
>> > On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 12:31 PM, Harry Mitchell <hjmwiki@gmail.com <mailto:hjmwiki@gmail.com> <mailto:hjmwiki@gmail.com <mailto:hjmwiki@gmail.com>>> wrote:
>> > Since you raise chapter scholarships, it would be nice to see some of the other big chapters (and to some extent the WMF) spending more on scholarships for rank-and-file Wikimedians rather than staff and board members. That might help with the perception that Wikimania is the same old faces year in, year out.
>> >
>> > Harry Mitchell
>> > http://enwp.org/User:HJ <http://enwp.org/User:HJ> <http://enwp.org/User:HJ <http://enwp.org/User:HJ>>
>> > +44 (0) 7507 536 971
>> > Skype: harry_j_mitchell
>> >
>> > ______________________________ _________________
>> > Wikimania-l mailing list
>> > Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia. org <mailto:Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
>> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/ mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l>
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
>> ______________________________ _________________
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>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia. org <mailto:Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/ mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of Wikimania-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 1
>> ****************************** *************
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
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> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Re: Wikimania-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 1 [ In reply to ]
I'd like to clarify this a bit more:

The Scholarship committee reviews and scores the applications that make it
into Phase 2. The WMF staff uses these
scores to distribute the scholarships evenly among the groups. These
scores are NOT "mere recommendations". Also, if any person who gets their
paper accepted to the program and cannot attend because they did not
receive a scholarship, the program committee can recommend that we offer
them support via the Wikimania budget.

Ellie Young
WMF Event Manager


On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 9:12 PM, cs <cs@edubkk.org> wrote:

> I am surprised to learn that the jury’s selection is a mere
> recommendation to the WMF. I was not aware of that.
> I’m not sure that the program teams are ideally constituted. The
> choice of presentations and/or allocations of time slots for various
> activities has often left me baffled.
>
> Kudpung
>
>
> On 05, Jun2018, at 22:19, DerHexer <derhexer@wikipedia.de> wrote:
>
> That's true: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Wikimania_
> scholars/Reviewer%27s_guide#Score_adjustment_for_previous_scholars (that
> this is not the perfect system is well known to everyone in the committee
> which, as Mardetanha said, changes every year—it's still very hard to
> implement a process which does not favor these who are used to write good
> applications if we don't draw lots).
>
> We had to start the scholarship processes at some point due to visa
> regulations, unfortunately before the program team could finish their
> process. For that reason, the scholarship committee proposed to save some
> money for people who could not hold their presentations without a
> scholarship. But in the end, it's the WMF who thankfully manages all the
> outcomes and the jury only evalutes the applications at some point.
>
> Best,
> Martin/DerHexer
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *Von:* Sjoerd de Bruin <sjoerddebruin@me.com>
> *An:* Wikimania general list (open subscription) <
> wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
> *Gesendet:* 17:15 Freitag, 1.Juni 2018
> *Betreff:* Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 1
>
> I think that is already included in scholarship applications, if I
> remember correctly.
>
> Greetings,
>
> Sjoerd de Bruin
>
> Op 1 jun. 2018, om 17:06 heeft Julie Workman <mlle.julie.w@gmail.com> het
> volgende geschreven:
>
> Is there at present any metric by which previous scholarship attendees are
> judged on their dissemination of Wikimania experiences after the
> conference? The complaint being brought up is not only about awardees
> getting repeat scholarships, but failing to enrich their communities
> afterwards with what they learned / what it was like / who they met / what
> they will do now. With a limited number of scholarships available, it is
> true that the attendees are expected to share their good fortune with those
> who couldn't attend.
>
> If nothing like that is in place, could it not be added? For example, a
> field on the application: "were you awarded a scholarship last year (and
> attended)?" "If yes, please describe (and provide links where possible) to
> the activities and discussions you organised with your community regarding
> your experience at Wikimania". If a sufficiently good and detailed response
> is not provided, the application can receive a lower score (or possibly be
> discarded...? I'm not au fait with the process).
>
> Julia W
>
> On 1 June 2018 at 13:00, <wikimania-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
>
> Send Wikimania-l mailing list submissions to
> wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia. org <wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/ mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l>
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> wikimania-l-request@lists. wikimedia.org
> <wikimania-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org>
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> wikimania-l-owner@lists. wikimedia.org
> <wikimania-l-owner@lists.wikimedia.org>
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Wikimania-l digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Update on Wikimania '18 (Pine W)
> 2. Re: Update on Wikimania '18 (cs)
>
>
> ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ----------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 18:31:08 -0700
> From: Pine W <wiki.pine@gmail.com>
> To: "Wikimania general list (open subscription)"
> <wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia. org
> <wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>>
> Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Update on Wikimania '18
> Message-ID:
> <CAF= dyJinVGV5eM7vBi7SFDLcqyLP4yakD a=VckDJZ4rPN76K1A@mail.gmail.
> com <VckDJZ4rPN76K1A@mail.gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Harry, I recall hearing that there was a push a year or two back to alter
> the proportion of presentations at Wikimania so that there were fewer WMF
> presentations and more community presentations. I don't know if that was a
> one time event or if that's ongoing. I have never been to Wikimania, and
> have no plans to go in the foreseeable future, but I watch what happens
> with Wikimania partly because it's an expensive operation in terms of
> financial cost and in terms of volunteer time. Also, the scholarship system
> is a perennial point of friction.
>
> Dariusz or Ellie, are there any thoughts at WMF about doing a full review
> of the scholarship system and the value of Wikimania to the community? With
> WMF spending so much money on Wikimania year after year, and volunteers
> spending so much time on Wikimania year after year, I think that it would
> make sense to do this type of review, which might be possible to
> synchronize with WMF's strategy process. I am very interested in ensuring
> that there are SMART goals being achieved with all of the money and time
> that goes into Wikimania. At the same time, I think that the scholarship
> system could be reviewed to consider the strategic priorities for
> scholarships and how to align those priorities to SMART goals. I don't
> envision reducing funding for Wikimania and scholarships, but I think that
> some re-thinking and evaluation would be good to align funding with the WMF
> strategic plan and with SMART goals.
>
> Pine
> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/User:Pine
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine> )
>
> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 12:31 PM, Harry Mitchell <hjmwiki@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Since you raise chapter scholarships, it would be nice to see some of the
> > other big chapters (and to some extent the WMF) spending more on
> > scholarships for rank-and-file Wikimedians rather than staff and board
> > members. That might help with the perception that Wikimania is the same
> old
> > faces year in, year out.
> >
> > Harry Mitchell
> > http://enwp.org/User:HJ
> > +44 (0) 7507 536 971
> > Skype: harry_j_mitchell
> >
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <https://lists.wikimedia.org/ pipermail/wikimania-l/
> attachments/20180531/42687ccd/ attachment-0001.html
> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimania-l/attachments/20180531/42687ccd/attachment-0001.html>
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 08:58:35 +0700
> From: cs <cs@edubkk.org>
> To: "Wikimania general list (open subscription)"
> <wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia. org
> <wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>>
> Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Update on Wikimania '18
> Message-ID: <28D68047-E5DC-4B96-BF0C- A9A2DA30ADDC@edubkk.org
> <28D68047-E5DC-4B96-BF0C-A9A2DA30ADDC@edubkk.org>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I have attended several Wikimanias.
> I would have thought that with the Wikipedias being voluntary
> contributed and managed projects, that the conference shoud have a sharp
> focus on attendance and presentations by the communities.
> However, this is not the case. Presentation time is, IMO, excessively
> allocated to various speakers from the salaried staff.
> This has been brought up on several occasions.
> In some instances, some presentations have had almost duplicate content.
> Many Foundations take on a promotional aspect of the WMF’s work.
> The credit for the entire movement should go to the community
> volunteers.
>
> Kudpung
>
> > On 01, Jun2018, at 08:31, Pine W <wiki.pine@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Harry, I recall hearing that there was a push a year or two back to
> alter the proportion of presentations at Wikimania so that there were fewer
> WMF presentations and more community presentations. I don't know if that
> was a one time event or if that's ongoing. I have never been to Wikimania,
> and have no plans to go in the foreseeable future, but I watch what happens
> with Wikimania partly because it's an expensive operation in terms of
> financial cost and in terms of volunteer time. Also, the scholarship system
> is a perennial point of friction.
> >
> > Dariusz or Ellie, are there any thoughts at WMF about doing a full
> review of the scholarship system and the value of Wikimania to the
> community? With WMF spending so much money on Wikimania year after year,
> and volunteers spending so much time on Wikimania year after year, I think
> that it would make sense to do this type of review, which might be possible
> to synchronize with WMF's strategy process. I am very interested in
> ensuring that there are SMART goals being achieved with all of the money
> and time that goes into Wikimania. At the same time, I think that the
> scholarship system could be reviewed to consider the strategic priorities
> for scholarships and how to align those priorities to SMART goals. I don't
> envision reducing funding for Wikimania and scholarships, but I think that
> some re-thinking and evaluation would be good to align funding with the WMF
> strategic plan and with SMART goals.
> >
> > Pine
> > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/User:Pine
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/User:Pine <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine>> )
> >
> > On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 12:31 PM, Harry Mitchell <hjmwiki@gmail.com
> <mailto:hjmwiki@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > Since you raise chapter scholarships, it would be nice to see some of
> the other big chapters (and to some extent the WMF) spending more on
> scholarships for rank-and-file Wikimedians rather than staff and board
> members. That might help with the perception that Wikimania is the same old
> faces year in, year out.
> >
> > Harry Mitchell
> > http://enwp.org/User:HJ <http://enwp.org/User:HJ>
> > +44 (0) 7507 536 971
> > Skype: harry_j_mitchell
> >
> > ______________________________ _________________
> > Wikimania-l mailing list
> > Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia. org <Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/ mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <https://lists.wikimedia.org/ pipermail/wikimania-l/
> attachments/20180601/da922580/ attachment-0001.html
> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimania-l/attachments/20180601/da922580/attachment-0001.html>
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> ______________________________ _________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia. org <Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/ mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Wikimania-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 1
> ****************************** *************
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>


--
Ellie Young
Events Manager
Wikimedia Foundation
eyoung@wikimedia.org
c. 510 701 8649
Re: Wikimania-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 1 [ In reply to ]
So in other word’s, The WMF ‘does’ have the final say in who is awarded a scholarship. I was not aware that this is the case. Thank you Ellie , for the clarification.
I do believe the program selection should be begun earlier and that there should be some active collaboration between the scholarships approvals systems(s) and those who do the program selections.

Kudpung

> On 07, Jun2018, at 00:59, Ellie Young <eyoung@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>
> I'd like to clarify this a bit more:
>
> The Scholarship committee reviews and scores the applications that make it into Phase 2. The WMF staff uses these
> scores to distribute the scholarships evenly among the groups. These scores are NOT "mere recommendations". Also, if any person who gets their paper accepted to the program and cannot attend because they did not receive a scholarship, the program committee can recommend that we offer them support via the Wikimania budget.
>
> Ellie Young
> WMF Event Manager
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 9:12 PM, cs <cs@edubkk.org <mailto:cs@edubkk.org>> wrote:
> I am surprised to learn that the jury’s selection is a mere recommendation to the WMF. I was not aware of that.
> I’m not sure that the program teams are ideally constituted. The choice of presentations and/or allocations of time slots for various activities has often left me baffled.
>
> Kudpung
>
>
>> On 05, Jun2018, at 22:19, DerHexer <derhexer@wikipedia.de <mailto:derhexer@wikipedia.de>> wrote:
>>
>> That's true: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Wikimania_scholars/Reviewer%27s_guide#Score_adjustment_for_previous_scholars <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Wikimania_scholars/Reviewer%27s_guide#Score_adjustment_for_previous_scholars> (that this is not the perfect system is well known to everyone in the committee which, as Mardetanha said, changes every year—it's still very hard to implement a process which does not favor these who are used to write good applications if we don't draw lots).
>>
>> We had to start the scholarship processes at some point due to visa regulations, unfortunately before the program team could finish their process. For that reason, the scholarship committee proposed to save some money for people who could not hold their presentations without a scholarship. But in the end, it's the WMF who thankfully manages all the outcomes and the jury only evalutes the applications at some point.
>>
>> Best,
>> Martin/DerHexer
>>
>>
>> Von: Sjoerd de Bruin <sjoerddebruin@me.com <mailto:sjoerddebruin@me.com>>
>> An: Wikimania general list (open subscription) <wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>>
>> Gesendet: 17:15 Freitag, 1.Juni 2018
>> Betreff: Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 1
>>
>> I think that is already included in scholarship applications, if I remember correctly.
>>
>> Greetings,
>>
>> Sjoerd de Bruin
>>
>>> Op 1 jun. 2018, om 17:06 heeft Julie Workman <mlle.julie.w@gmail.com <mailto:mlle.julie.w@gmail.com>> het volgende geschreven:
>>>
>>> Is there at present any metric by which previous scholarship attendees are judged on their dissemination of Wikimania experiences after the conference? The complaint being brought up is not only about awardees getting repeat scholarships, but failing to enrich their communities afterwards with what they learned / what it was like / who they met / what they will do now. With a limited number of scholarships available, it is true that the attendees are expected to share their good fortune with those who couldn't attend.
>>>
>>> If nothing like that is in place, could it not be added? For example, a field on the application: "were you awarded a scholarship last year (and attended)?" "If yes, please describe (and provide links where possible) to the activities and discussions you organised with your community regarding your experience at Wikimania". If a sufficiently good and detailed response is not provided, the application can receive a lower score (or possibly be discarded...? I'm not au fait with the process).
>>>
>>> Julia W
>>>
>>> On 1 June 2018 at 13:00, <wikimania-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:wikimania-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org>> wrote:
>>> Send Wikimania-l mailing list submissions to
>>> wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia. org <mailto:wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
>>>
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/ mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l>
>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>> wikimania-l-request@lists. wikimedia.org <mailto:wikimania-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org>
>>>
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>> wikimania-l-owner@lists. wikimedia.org <mailto:wikimania-l-owner@lists.wikimedia.org>
>>>
>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> than "Re: Contents of Wikimania-l digest..."
>>>
>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>> 1. Re: Update on Wikimania '18 (Pine W)
>>> 2. Re: Update on Wikimania '18 (cs)
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ----------
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 18:31:08 -0700
>>> From: Pine W <wiki.pine@gmail.com <mailto:wiki.pine@gmail.com>>
>>> To: "Wikimania general list (open subscription)"
>>> <wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia. org <mailto:wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>>
>>> Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Update on Wikimania '18
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <CAF= dyJinVGV5eM7vBi7SFDLcqyLP4yakD a=VckDJZ4rPN76K1A@mail.gmail. com <mailto:VckDJZ4rPN76K1A@mail.gmail.com>>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>
>>> Harry, I recall hearing that there was a push a year or two back to alter
>>> the proportion of presentations at Wikimania so that there were fewer WMF
>>> presentations and more community presentations. I don't know if that was a
>>> one time event or if that's ongoing. I have never been to Wikimania, and
>>> have no plans to go in the foreseeable future, but I watch what happens
>>> with Wikimania partly because it's an expensive operation in terms of
>>> financial cost and in terms of volunteer time. Also, the scholarship system
>>> is a perennial point of friction.
>>>
>>> Dariusz or Ellie, are there any thoughts at WMF about doing a full review
>>> of the scholarship system and the value of Wikimania to the community? With
>>> WMF spending so much money on Wikimania year after year, and volunteers
>>> spending so much time on Wikimania year after year, I think that it would
>>> make sense to do this type of review, which might be possible to
>>> synchronize with WMF's strategy process. I am very interested in ensuring
>>> that there are SMART goals being achieved with all of the money and time
>>> that goes into Wikimania. At the same time, I think that the scholarship
>>> system could be reviewed to consider the strategic priorities for
>>> scholarships and how to align those priorities to SMART goals. I don't
>>> envision reducing funding for Wikimania and scholarships, but I think that
>>> some re-thinking and evaluation would be good to align funding with the WMF
>>> strategic plan and with SMART goals.
>>>
>>> Pine
>>> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/User:Pine <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine> )
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 12:31 PM, Harry Mitchell <hjmwiki@gmail.com <mailto:hjmwiki@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Since you raise chapter scholarships, it would be nice to see some of the
>>> > other big chapters (and to some extent the WMF) spending more on
>>> > scholarships for rank-and-file Wikimedians rather than staff and board
>>> > members. That might help with the perception that Wikimania is the same old
>>> > faces year in, year out.
>>> >
>>> > Harry Mitchell
>>> > http://enwp.org/User:HJ <http://enwp.org/User:HJ>
>>> > +44 (0) 7507 536 971
>>> > Skype: harry_j_mitchell
>>> >
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>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 08:58:35 +0700
>>> From: cs <cs@edubkk.org <mailto:cs@edubkk.org>>
>>> To: "Wikimania general list (open subscription)"
>>> <wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia. org <mailto:wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>>
>>> Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Update on Wikimania '18
>>> Message-ID: <28D68047-E5DC-4B96-BF0C- A9A2DA30ADDC@edubkk.org <mailto:28D68047-E5DC-4B96-BF0C-A9A2DA30ADDC@edubkk.org>>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>
>>> I have attended several Wikimanias.
>>> I would have thought that with the Wikipedias being voluntary contributed and managed projects, that the conference shoud have a sharp focus on attendance and presentations by the communities.
>>> However, this is not the case. Presentation time is, IMO, excessively allocated to various speakers from the salaried staff.
>>> This has been brought up on several occasions.
>>> In some instances, some presentations have had almost duplicate content.
>>> Many Foundations take on a promotional aspect of the WMF’s work.
>>> The credit for the entire movement should go to the community volunteers.
>>>
>>> Kudpung
>>>
>>> > On 01, Jun2018, at 08:31, Pine W <wiki.pine@gmail.com <mailto:wiki.pine@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Harry, I recall hearing that there was a push a year or two back to alter the proportion of presentations at Wikimania so that there were fewer WMF presentations and more community presentations. I don't know if that was a one time event or if that's ongoing. I have never been to Wikimania, and have no plans to go in the foreseeable future, but I watch what happens with Wikimania partly because it's an expensive operation in terms of financial cost and in terms of volunteer time. Also, the scholarship system is a perennial point of friction.
>>> >
>>> > Dariusz or Ellie, are there any thoughts at WMF about doing a full review of the scholarship system and the value of Wikimania to the community? With WMF spending so much money on Wikimania year after year, and volunteers spending so much time on Wikimania year after year, I think that it would make sense to do this type of review, which might be possible to synchronize with WMF's strategy process. I am very interested in ensuring that there are SMART goals being achieved with all of the money and time that goes into Wikimania. At the same time, I think that the scholarship system could be reviewed to consider the strategic priorities for scholarships and how to align those priorities to SMART goals. I don't envision reducing funding for Wikimania and scholarships, but I think that some re-thinking and evaluation would be good to align funding with the WMF strategic plan and with SMART goals.
>>> >
>>> > Pine
>>> > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/User:Pine <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/User:Pine <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine>> )
>>> >
>>> > On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 12:31 PM, Harry Mitchell <hjmwiki@gmail.com <mailto:hjmwiki@gmail.com> <mailto:hjmwiki@gmail.com <mailto:hjmwiki@gmail.com>>> wrote:
>>> > Since you raise chapter scholarships, it would be nice to see some of the other big chapters (and to some extent the WMF) spending more on scholarships for rank-and-file Wikimedians rather than staff and board members. That might help with the perception that Wikimania is the same old faces year in, year out.
>>> >
>>> > Harry Mitchell
>>> > http://enwp.org/User:HJ <http://enwp.org/User:HJ> <http://enwp.org/User:HJ <http://enwp.org/User:HJ>>
>>> > +44 (0) 7507 536 971
>>> > Skype: harry_j_mitchell
>>> >
>>> > ______________________________ _________________
>>> > Wikimania-l mailing list
>>> > Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia. org <mailto:Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
>>> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/ mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l>
>>>
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>>>
>>> End of Wikimania-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 1
>>> ****************************** *************
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>>
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>
>
>
>
> --
> Ellie Young
> Events Manager
> Wikimedia Foundation
> eyoung@wikimedia.org <mailto:eyoung@wikimedia.org>c. 510 701 8649
> _______________________________________________
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Re: Wikimania-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 1 [ In reply to ]
Hi Kudpung,

(without being intimitely familiar with this particular year, the
underneath is based on my experience and conversations from previous years)
I would almost say: of course. As the disburser, the WMF will at the very
least have to check that the recipient is not on some terrorism watchlist
or otherwise unable to receive the money, on a blacklist of the Trust and
Safety, etc. As such, they need some flexibility to overrule the committee.

I agree it would be /nice/ for the scholarship process to have earlier
program decisions. However, the other side is that for the program, it
would be nice to have as late as possible submissions, because that
improved the likelihood that the sessions are still relevant by the time
the conference is there. When there are project related sessions, that
there is actually a clear overview of what to present.

As with many decisions, the timeline of Wikimania is a fragile one with
many timelines that need to be coordinated. It will never be perfect -
because every time you improve something on the right, something on the
left will suffer.

Best,
Lodewijk

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 7:43 PM, cs <cs@edubkk.org> wrote:

> So in other word’s, The WMF ‘does’ have the final say in who is
> awarded a scholarship. I was not aware that this is the case. Thank
> you Ellie , for the clarification.
> I do believe the program selection should be begun earlier and that
> there should be some active collaboration between the scholarships
> approvals systems(s) and those who do the program selections.
>
> Kudpung
>
> On 07, Jun2018, at 00:59, Ellie Young <eyoung@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>
> I'd like to clarify this a bit more:
>
> The Scholarship committee reviews and scores the applications that make it
> into Phase 2. The WMF staff uses these
> scores to distribute the scholarships evenly among the groups. These
> scores are NOT "mere recommendations". Also, if any person who gets their
> paper accepted to the program and cannot attend because they did not
> receive a scholarship, the program committee can recommend that we offer
> them support via the Wikimania budget.
>
> Ellie Young
> WMF Event Manager
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 9:12 PM, cs <cs@edubkk.org> wrote:
>
>> I am surprised to learn that the jury’s selection is a mere
>> recommendation to the WMF. I was not aware of that.
>> I’m not sure that the program teams are ideally constituted. The
>> choice of presentations and/or allocations of time slots for various
>> activities has often left me baffled.
>>
>> Kudpung
>>
>>
>> On 05, Jun2018, at 22:19, DerHexer <derhexer@wikipedia.de> wrote:
>>
>> That's true: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Wikimania_schol
>> ars/Reviewer%27s_guide#Score_adjustment_for_previous_scholars (that this
>> is not the perfect system is well known to everyone in the committee which,
>> as Mardetanha said, changes every year—it's still very hard to implement a
>> process which does not favor these who are used to write good applications
>> if we don't draw lots).
>>
>> We had to start the scholarship processes at some point due to visa
>> regulations, unfortunately before the program team could finish their
>> process. For that reason, the scholarship committee proposed to save some
>> money for people who could not hold their presentations without a
>> scholarship. But in the end, it's the WMF who thankfully manages all the
>> outcomes and the jury only evalutes the applications at some point.
>>
>> Best,
>> Martin/DerHexer
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *Von:* Sjoerd de Bruin <sjoerddebruin@me.com>
>> *An:* Wikimania general list (open subscription) <
>> wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
>> *Gesendet:* 17:15 Freitag, 1.Juni 2018
>> *Betreff:* Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 1
>>
>> I think that is already included in scholarship applications, if I
>> remember correctly.
>>
>> Greetings,
>>
>> Sjoerd de Bruin
>>
>> Op 1 jun. 2018, om 17:06 heeft Julie Workman <mlle.julie.w@gmail.com>
>> het volgende geschreven:
>>
>> Is there at present any metric by which previous scholarship attendees
>> are judged on their dissemination of Wikimania experiences after the
>> conference? The complaint being brought up is not only about awardees
>> getting repeat scholarships, but failing to enrich their communities
>> afterwards with what they learned / what it was like / who they met / what
>> they will do now. With a limited number of scholarships available, it is
>> true that the attendees are expected to share their good fortune with those
>> who couldn't attend.
>>
>> If nothing like that is in place, could it not be added? For example, a
>> field on the application: "were you awarded a scholarship last year (and
>> attended)?" "If yes, please describe (and provide links where possible) to
>> the activities and discussions you organised with your community regarding
>> your experience at Wikimania". If a sufficiently good and detailed response
>> is not provided, the application can receive a lower score (or possibly be
>> discarded...? I'm not au fait with the process).
>>
>> Julia W
>>
>> On 1 June 2018 at 13:00, <wikimania-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>
>> Send Wikimania-l mailing list submissions to
>> wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia. org
>> <wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>>
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>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Wikimania-l digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: Update on Wikimania '18 (Pine W)
>> 2. Re: Update on Wikimania '18 (cs)
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ----------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 18:31:08 -0700
>> From: Pine W <wiki.pine@gmail.com>
>> To: "Wikimania general list (open subscription)"
>> <wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia. org
>> <wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>>
>> Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Update on Wikimania '18
>> Message-ID:
>> <CAF= dyJinVGV5eM7vBi7SFDLcqyLP4yakD a=VckDJZ4rPN76K1A@mail.gmail.
>> com <VckDJZ4rPN76K1A@mail.gmail.com>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Harry, I recall hearing that there was a push a year or two back to alter
>> the proportion of presentations at Wikimania so that there were fewer WMF
>> presentations and more community presentations. I don't know if that was a
>> one time event or if that's ongoing. I have never been to Wikimania, and
>> have no plans to go in the foreseeable future, but I watch what happens
>> with Wikimania partly because it's an expensive operation in terms of
>> financial cost and in terms of volunteer time. Also, the scholarship
>> system
>> is a perennial point of friction.
>>
>> Dariusz or Ellie, are there any thoughts at WMF about doing a full review
>> of the scholarship system and the value of Wikimania to the community?
>> With
>> WMF spending so much money on Wikimania year after year, and volunteers
>> spending so much time on Wikimania year after year, I think that it would
>> make sense to do this type of review, which might be possible to
>> synchronize with WMF's strategy process. I am very interested in ensuring
>> that there are SMART goals being achieved with all of the money and time
>> that goes into Wikimania. At the same time, I think that the scholarship
>> system could be reviewed to consider the strategic priorities for
>> scholarships and how to align those priorities to SMART goals. I don't
>> envision reducing funding for Wikimania and scholarships, but I think that
>> some re-thinking and evaluation would be good to align funding with the
>> WMF
>> strategic plan and with SMART goals.
>>
>> Pine
>> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/User:Pine
>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine> )
>>
>> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 12:31 PM, Harry Mitchell <hjmwiki@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Since you raise chapter scholarships, it would be nice to see some of
>> the
>> > other big chapters (and to some extent the WMF) spending more on
>> > scholarships for rank-and-file Wikimedians rather than staff and board
>> > members. That might help with the perception that Wikimania is the same
>> old
>> > faces year in, year out.
>> >
>> > Harry Mitchell
>> > http://enwp.org/User:HJ
>> > +44 (0) 7507 536 971
>> > Skype: harry_j_mitchell
>> >
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <https://lists.wikimedia.org/ pipermail/wikimania-l/
>> attachments/20180531/42687ccd/ attachment-0001.html
>> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimania-l/attachments/20180531/42687ccd/attachment-0001.html>
>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 08:58:35 +0700
>> From: cs <cs@edubkk.org>
>> To: "Wikimania general list (open subscription)"
>> <wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia. org
>> <wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>>
>> Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Update on Wikimania '18
>> Message-ID: <28D68047-E5DC-4B96-BF0C- A9A2DA30ADDC@edubkk.org
>> <28D68047-E5DC-4B96-BF0C-A9A2DA30ADDC@edubkk.org>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> I have attended several Wikimanias.
>> I would have thought that with the Wikipedias being voluntary
>> contributed and managed projects, that the conference shoud have a sharp
>> focus on attendance and presentations by the communities.
>> However, this is not the case. Presentation time is, IMO, excessively
>> allocated to various speakers from the salaried staff.
>> This has been brought up on several occasions.
>> In some instances, some presentations have had almost duplicate content.
>> Many Foundations take on a promotional aspect of the WMF’s work.
>> The credit for the entire movement should go to the community
>> volunteers.
>>
>> Kudpung
>>
>> > On 01, Jun2018, at 08:31, Pine W <wiki.pine@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Harry, I recall hearing that there was a push a year or two back to
>> alter the proportion of presentations at Wikimania so that there were fewer
>> WMF presentations and more community presentations. I don't know if that
>> was a one time event or if that's ongoing. I have never been to Wikimania,
>> and have no plans to go in the foreseeable future, but I watch what happens
>> with Wikimania partly because it's an expensive operation in terms of
>> financial cost and in terms of volunteer time. Also, the scholarship system
>> is a perennial point of friction.
>> >
>> > Dariusz or Ellie, are there any thoughts at WMF about doing a full
>> review of the scholarship system and the value of Wikimania to the
>> community? With WMF spending so much money on Wikimania year after year,
>> and volunteers spending so much time on Wikimania year after year, I think
>> that it would make sense to do this type of review, which might be possible
>> to synchronize with WMF's strategy process. I am very interested in
>> ensuring that there are SMART goals being achieved with all of the money
>> and time that goes into Wikimania. At the same time, I think that the
>> scholarship system could be reviewed to consider the strategic priorities
>> for scholarships and how to align those priorities to SMART goals. I don't
>> envision reducing funding for Wikimania and scholarships, but I think that
>> some re-thinking and evaluation would be good to align funding with the WMF
>> strategic plan and with SMART goals.
>> >
>> > Pine
>> > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/User:Pine
>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>> wiki/User:Pine <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine>> )
>> >
>> > On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 12:31 PM, Harry Mitchell <hjmwiki@gmail.com
>> <mailto:hjmwiki@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> > Since you raise chapter scholarships, it would be nice to see some of
>> the other big chapters (and to some extent the WMF) spending more on
>> scholarships for rank-and-file Wikimedians rather than staff and board
>> members. That might help with the perception that Wikimania is the same old
>> faces year in, year out.
>> >
>> > Harry Mitchell
>> > http://enwp.org/User:HJ <http://enwp.org/User:HJ>
>> > +44 (0) 7507 536 971
>> > Skype: harry_j_mitchell
>> >
>> > ______________________________ _________________
>> > Wikimania-l mailing list
>> > Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia. org <Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
>> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/ mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l>
>>
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>> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimania-l/attachments/20180601/da922580/attachment-0001.html>
>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
>> ______________________________ _________________
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>> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of Wikimania-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 1
>> ****************************** *************
>>
>>
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>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
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>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
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>>
>
>
> --
> Ellie Young
> Events Manager
> Wikimedia Foundation
> eyoung@wikimedia.org
> c. 510 701 8649
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>
Re: Wikimania-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 1 [ In reply to ]
Chris Keating, 05/06/2018 18:53:
> Thinking about it, drawing lots might not be the silliest idea in the universe.

Sure. It's used in several kinds of official selections and there's
ample research on the effects. That said, it's rarely popular, because
it's often perceived as a failure or last resort.

Federico

_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Re: Wikimania-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 1 [ In reply to ]
I think in our case the advantages would be

a) it saves a lot of volunteer time because applications would need
much less assessment
b) it protects the system from the perpetual accusation that "there
are some people who always get scholarships"
c) it also removes "skill in writing applications" as a factor in
deciding who gets a scholarship

The drawback would be
d) arguably it might reduce the impact of the event, if quality of
application is in fact linked to the impact from a particular person
attending the conference

It's worth noting that the other big movement event, the Wikimedia
Conference, does not award scholarships based on applications, or
merit - the WMF just funds whoever various chapters and user groups
want to attend (which is more often a case of who's the first to put
up their hand, or the last to run out of the room, than any kind of
rigorous process)

Not saying that a lottery would necessarily be the right answer but
the more I think about it the more I think "well, what IS the case for
application-based scholarships, and do they really achieve the goals
for the event?"

Chris

On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 8:13 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) <nemowiki@gmail.com> wrote:
> Chris Keating, 05/06/2018 18:53:
>>
>> Thinking about it, drawing lots might not be the silliest idea in the
>> universe.
>
>
> Sure. It's used in several kinds of official selections and there's ample
> research on the effects. That said, it's rarely popular, because it's often
> perceived as a failure or last resort.
>
> Federico

_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Re: Wikimania-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 1 [ In reply to ]
I suggest that a public dialogue about the strategic goals of Wikimania, the strategic goals of Wikimania scholarships, and how to achieve those goals in cost-effective ways, would be good to have. Perhaps WMF Learning and Evaluation, in partnership with WMF Community Resources, could facilitate this dialogue in WMF Annual Plan year 2019-2020. Preparation work could be done in 2018-2019 as time allows.
Pine
( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
null