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[Wikimedia-l] Re: [Marketing Mail] Re: Small gratitude to our fellow wikimedians
Seems a reasonable idea. Cheers, Peter



From: Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org]
Sent: 09 November 2021 14:16
To: 'Wikimedia Mailing List'
Cc: Alessandro Marchetti
Subject: [Marketing Mail] [Wikimedia-l] Re: Small gratitude to our fellow wikimedians





Yes, a user status/right “deceased" is IMHO important. It was also the reason why I expected a SUL policy to be created soon or later. I tried two or three time to raise the issue since 2016.



Now some projects block accounts, but it's not a standard process. It has to be fixed soon or later. At the moment, a relative can reuse an old account in theory on another platform, if they wish to do so. For example I find archive of images of my deceased partner and despite the user being blocked on a local wikipedia, I start to upload them on Commons in their name. Everybody has their way to cope with grief. Do we accept this or not?



Alessandro

Il martedì 9 novembre 2021, 10:17:51 CET, Geert Van Pamel <geertivp@gmail.com> ha scritto:





I do find this an excellent proposal.



Wouldn’t it be good to also implement a user status/right “deceased” to identify those accounts?



This information could be shown to their user rights page e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:UserRights/Geertivp?



One could get a list of volunteers that are no longer amongst us via https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:ListUsers.



Geert Van Pamel

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[Wikimedia-l] Re: [Marketing Mail] Re: Small gratitude to our fellow wikimedians [ In reply to ]
Actually, many projects maintain the list of deceased users.

English Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Deceased_Wikipedians

Commons: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deceased_contributors

Meta is up the thread.

We should also realize that a significant part of our active editors /
administrators are over 50, meaning that in 10 years we will have many more
names than we have now.

Best
Yaroslav

On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 1:45 PM Peter Southwood <peter.southwood@telkomsa.net>
wrote:

> Seems a reasonable idea. Cheers, Peter
>
>
>
> *From:* Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l [mailto:
> wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org]
> *Sent:* 09 November 2021 14:16
> *To:* 'Wikimedia Mailing List'
> *Cc:* Alessandro Marchetti
> *Subject:* [Marketing Mail] [Wikimedia-l] Re: Small gratitude to our
> fellow wikimedians
>
>
>
>
>
> Yes, a user status/right “deceased" is IMHO important. It was also the
> reason why I expected a SUL policy to be created soon or later. I tried two
> or three time to raise the issue since 2016.
>
>
>
> Now some projects block accounts, but it's not a standard process. It has
> to be fixed soon or later. At the moment, a relative can reuse an old
> account in theory on another platform, if they wish to do so. For example I
> find archive of images of my deceased partner and despite the user being
> blocked on a local wikipedia, I start to upload them on Commons in their
> name. Everybody has their way to cope with grief. Do we accept this or not?
>
>
>
> Alessandro
>
> Il martedì 9 novembre 2021, 10:17:51 CET, Geert Van Pamel <
> geertivp@gmail.com> ha scritto:
>
>
>
>
>
> I do find this an excellent proposal.
>
>
>
> Wouldn’t it be good to also implement a user status/right “deceased” to
> identify those accounts?
>
>
>
> This information could be shown to their user rights page e.g.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:UserRights/Geertivp?
>
>
>
> One could get a list of volunteers that are no longer amongst us via
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:ListUsers.
>
>
>
> *Geert Van Pamel*
>
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: [Marketing Mail] Re: Small gratitude to our fellow wikimedians [ In reply to ]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Deceased_editors I have created a stub. It will grow.
it is just time, if we don't start to focus on one page, we will have this discussion again and again. Now we can use that talk page or show the page as target for future discussion.

You can start for example to link local policies there, so people can start to get an idea what could be used as a reference.
Alessandro


Il martedì 9 novembre 2021, 13:46:11 CET, Peter Southwood <peter.southwood@telkomsa.net> ha scritto:


Seems a reasonable idea. Cheers, Peter

 

From: Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org]
Sent: 09 November 2021 14:16
To: 'Wikimedia Mailing List'
Cc: Alessandro Marchetti
Subject: [Marketing Mail] [Wikimedia-l] Re: Small gratitude to our fellow wikimedians

 

 

Yes, a user status/right “deceased" is IMHO important. It was also the reason why I expected a SUL policy to be created soon or later. I tried two or three time to raise the issue since 2016.

 

Now some projects block accounts, but it's not a standard process. It has to be fixed soon or later. At the moment, a relative can reuse an old account in theory on another platform, if they wish to do so. For example I find archive of images of my deceased partner and despite the user being blocked on a local wikipedia, I start to upload them on Commons in their name. Everybody has their way to cope with grief. Do we accept this or not?

 

Alessandro

Il martedì 9 novembre 2021, 10:17:51 CET, Geert Van Pamel <geertivp@gmail.com> ha scritto:

 

 

I do find this an excellent proposal.

 

Wouldn’t it be good to also implement a user status/right “deceased” to identify those accounts?

 

This information could be shown to their user rights page e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:UserRights/Geertivp?

 

One could get a list of volunteers that are no longer amongst us via https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:ListUsers.

 

Geert Van Pamel

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[Wikimedia-l] Re: [Marketing Mail] Re: Small gratitude to our fellow wikimedians [ In reply to ]
Maybe a good approach would be also to have a global rename of the user
account to add something like _(.) so it is systematic and 'obvious' across
all Wikimedia projects - no?
[Wikimedia-l] Re: [Marketing Mail] Re: Small gratitude to our fellow wikimedians [ In reply to ]
That would enter the domain of naming guidelines and we don't have those in general. Again, I have been pointing out since the first years of SUL.

For example a string can look terrible in one language but not another, you have a normal user experience in one Wikipedia, and than you realize that you were blocked after the first edit in another one. If we don't fix something like this first, which is a first-order problem on the issue of naming guideline, it would be very difficult to add anything else, IMHO.
Alessandro



Il martedì 9 novembre 2021, 16:05:41 CET, Željko Bla?e <zblace@mi2.hr> ha scritto:

Maybe a good approach would be also to have a global rename of the user account to add something like _(.) so it is systematic and 'obvious' across all Wikimedia projects - no?

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[Wikimedia-l] Re: [Marketing Mail] Re: Small gratitude to our fellow wikimedians [ In reply to ]
One thing to keep in mind is that there are a couple of million Wikimedia
accounts. Just by the law of averages, it's likely that someone who has a
Wikimedia account dies every day. Most of the time, we will never know
about it. I'd guess that a good percentage of the accounts that have been
inactive for 5-10-15 years belong to people who have passed away. The vast
majority of accounts of deceased editors have no potentially hazardous
permissions attached to them - there aren't *that* many administrators,
interface administrators, checkusers and oversighters across all projects -
so there is no significant risk in leaving those accounts active. There is
no real security issue here. The main effect of having a "deceased user"
right would be to highlight which users were popular enough to have their
death noticed by their community; most accounts of deceased users will
never be identified as such.

I've explained the "process" of how we address things on English Wikipedia,
but not even we have a formal written policy on this; as best I can tell,
most of the steps I've mentioned aren't written down anywhere, and it is
simply a practice that has developed over time and is passed from one
"generation" to another by example and word of mouth. In fact, I'd guess
that very small projects (where almost all the editors know each other) are
even better at recognizing the contributions of deceased members than any
of the big projects. I'm in favour of individual projects, which all have
slightly different cultures, developing their own process, but I'd suggest
it be a guideline rather than a policy.

Risker/Anne





On Tue, 9 Nov 2021 at 10:19, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l <
wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:

> That would enter the domain of naming guidelines and we don't have those
> in general. Again, I have been pointing out since the first years of SUL.
>
> For example a string can look terrible in one language but not another,
> you have a normal user experience in one Wikipedia, and than you realize
> that you were blocked after the first edit in another one. If we don't fix
> something like this first, which is a first-order problem on the issue of
> naming guideline, it would be very difficult to add anything else, IMHO.
>
> Alessandro
>
>
>
> Il martedì 9 novembre 2021, 16:05:41 CET, Željko Bla?e <zblace@mi2.hr> ha
> scritto:
>
>
> Maybe a good approach would be also to have a global rename of the user
> account to add something like _(.) so it is systematic and 'obvious' across
> all Wikimedia projects - no?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines
> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
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>
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