Mailing List Archive

[Wikimedia-l] June 4 1800 Maggie Dennis office hour (with a twist)
Hello, all.

With the Board’s recent statement, this seems like a good time to launch
the quarterly office hours I’ve been wanting to create for people who want
to talk to me about issues involving “community resilience and
sustainability,” including the work of Trust & Safety, whom I oversee.
(after months of wanting to do this I’ve come to realize that I will always
be "too busy" to feel like it's the perfect time for this. So I’m going to
do it now anyway!)

There’ve been requests to make office hours more personal, so I will host a
Zoom hangout where people can join me, but I'll also take questions from
Telegram and IRC.[1] I know that finding an hour that works for everybody
is not going to happen, and I know from past office hours I’ve been
involved in that I may get far more questions than I can answer (or,
contrarily, nothing at all :)). Nevertheless, I will do my best to answer
questions posed to me in that hour by Wikimedians in good standing (not
Foundation or community banned) and to follow up in writing with any I
don’t have time for over the next few days or week or so, time allowing. I
might aggregate similar questions into a kind of FAQ. We’ll publish notes,
anonymizing those who’ve asked questions, after.

I do, however, have the following caveats:

-

I can’t and won’t discuss specific Trust & Safety cases. Instead, I can
discuss Trust & Safety protocols and practices and approaches as well as
some of the mistakes we’ve made, some of the things I’m proud of, and some
of the things we’re hoping to do.
-

I will not respond to comments or questions that are disrespectful to
me, to my colleagues, or to anyone in our communities. I can talk civilly
about our work even if you disagree with me or I disagree with you. I won’t
compromise on this.


I’m not sure if I will stick with Zoom as the way I do office hours
forever, but I am responding to some requests for spoken interaction while
also trying to provide text options for those who prefer. I admit to being
a little camera shy myself, so this is a challenge for me! If I embarrass
myself too badly, I may retreat to the safety of text in future.

I was hoping to have the Zoom link already, but while that’s being
expedited by our office technology team, I don’t have it yet. I wanted to
give interested people notice as soon as I knew the time. I’ll follow up
with links again at least two hours in advance.

The meeting will be on June 4th at 1800 UTC.

I hope to see you there.

Best,

Maggie

[1] Zoom link; Telegram link: https://t.me/joinchat/DOlGIB1FRLUWqW9iB3qfTQ;
directions for participating in IRC:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#How_to_participate

--
Maggie Dennis
Vice President, Community Resilience & Sustainability
Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] June 4 1800 Maggie Dennis office hour (with a twist) [ In reply to ]
Greetings,
Excellent news. A few years ago I got a chance to talk to you in details on
some other stuff related to Wikipedia and that discussion was very helpful.
I am sure, this call/initiative related to "community resilience and
sustainability" will be really helpful. Good wishes.

Thanks
User:Titodutta



On Thu, 28 May 2020 at 17:33, Maggie Dennis <mdennis@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> Hello, all.
>
> With the Board’s recent statement, this seems like a good time to launch
> the quarterly office hours I’ve been wanting to create for people who want
> to talk to me about issues involving “community resilience and
> sustainability,” including the work of Trust & Safety, whom I oversee.
> (after months of wanting to do this I’ve come to realize that I will always
> be "too busy" to feel like it's the perfect time for this. So I’m going to
> do it now anyway!)
>
> There’ve been requests to make office hours more personal, so I will host a
> Zoom hangout where people can join me, but I'll also take questions from
> Telegram and IRC.[1] I know that finding an hour that works for everybody
> is not going to happen, and I know from past office hours I’ve been
> involved in that I may get far more questions than I can answer (or,
> contrarily, nothing at all :)). Nevertheless, I will do my best to answer
> questions posed to me in that hour by Wikimedians in good standing (not
> Foundation or community banned) and to follow up in writing with any I
> don’t have time for over the next few days or week or so, time allowing. I
> might aggregate similar questions into a kind of FAQ. We’ll publish notes,
> anonymizing those who’ve asked questions, after.
>
> I do, however, have the following caveats:
>
> -
>
> I can’t and won’t discuss specific Trust & Safety cases. Instead, I can
> discuss Trust & Safety protocols and practices and approaches as well as
> some of the mistakes we’ve made, some of the things I’m proud of, and
> some
> of the things we’re hoping to do.
> -
>
> I will not respond to comments or questions that are disrespectful to
> me, to my colleagues, or to anyone in our communities. I can talk
> civilly
> about our work even if you disagree with me or I disagree with you. I
> won’t
> compromise on this.
>
>
> I’m not sure if I will stick with Zoom as the way I do office hours
> forever, but I am responding to some requests for spoken interaction while
> also trying to provide text options for those who prefer. I admit to being
> a little camera shy myself, so this is a challenge for me! If I embarrass
> myself too badly, I may retreat to the safety of text in future.
>
> I was hoping to have the Zoom link already, but while that’s being
> expedited by our office technology team, I don’t have it yet. I wanted to
> give interested people notice as soon as I knew the time. I’ll follow up
> with links again at least two hours in advance.
>
> The meeting will be on June 4th at 1800 UTC.
>
> I hope to see you there.
>
> Best,
>
> Maggie
>
> [1] Zoom link; Telegram link: https://t.me/joinchat/DOlGIB1FRLUWqW9iB3qfTQ
> ;
> directions for participating in IRC:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#How_to_participate
>
> --
> Maggie Dennis
> Vice President, Community Resilience & Sustainability
> Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] June 4 1800 Maggie Dennis office hour (with a twist) [ In reply to ]
This will be very interesting, thank you Maggie.
(To check your local time for this office hour: click here
<https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Maggie+Dennis+office+hour+%28with+a+twist%29&iso=20200604T18&p1=1440&ah=1>)


Vriendelijke groet,
Ciell


Op do 28 mei 2020 om 14:03 schreef Maggie Dennis <mdennis@wikimedia.org>:

> Hello, all.
>
> With the Board’s recent statement, this seems like a good time to launch
> the quarterly office hours I’ve been wanting to create for people who want
> to talk to me about issues involving “community resilience and
> sustainability,” including the work of Trust & Safety, whom I oversee.
> (after months of wanting to do this I’ve come to realize that I will always
> be "too busy" to feel like it's the perfect time for this. So I’m going to
> do it now anyway!)
>
> There’ve been requests to make office hours more personal, so I will host a
> Zoom hangout where people can join me, but I'll also take questions from
> Telegram and IRC.[1] I know that finding an hour that works for everybody
> is not going to happen, and I know from past office hours I’ve been
> involved in that I may get far more questions than I can answer (or,
> contrarily, nothing at all :)). Nevertheless, I will do my best to answer
> questions posed to me in that hour by Wikimedians in good standing (not
> Foundation or community banned) and to follow up in writing with any I
> don’t have time for over the next few days or week or so, time allowing. I
> might aggregate similar questions into a kind of FAQ. We’ll publish notes,
> anonymizing those who’ve asked questions, after.
>
> I do, however, have the following caveats:
>
> -
>
> I can’t and won’t discuss specific Trust & Safety cases. Instead, I can
> discuss Trust & Safety protocols and practices and approaches as well as
> some of the mistakes we’ve made, some of the things I’m proud of, and
> some
> of the things we’re hoping to do.
> -
>
> I will not respond to comments or questions that are disrespectful to
> me, to my colleagues, or to anyone in our communities. I can talk
> civilly
> about our work even if you disagree with me or I disagree with you. I
> won’t
> compromise on this.
>
>
> I’m not sure if I will stick with Zoom as the way I do office hours
> forever, but I am responding to some requests for spoken interaction while
> also trying to provide text options for those who prefer. I admit to being
> a little camera shy myself, so this is a challenge for me! If I embarrass
> myself too badly, I may retreat to the safety of text in future.
>
> I was hoping to have the Zoom link already, but while that’s being
> expedited by our office technology team, I don’t have it yet. I wanted to
> give interested people notice as soon as I knew the time. I’ll follow up
> with links again at least two hours in advance.
>
> The meeting will be on June 4th at 1800 UTC.
>
> I hope to see you there.
>
> Best,
>
> Maggie
>
> [1] Zoom link; Telegram link: https://t.me/joinchat/DOlGIB1FRLUWqW9iB3qfTQ
> ;
> directions for participating in IRC:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#How_to_participate
>
> --
> Maggie Dennis
> Vice President, Community Resilience & Sustainability
> Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] June 4 1800 Maggie Dennis office hour (with a twist) [ In reply to ]
Thank you, Maggie, I am so glad this is coming at the right time. Looking
forward to it.

Thanks

Olaniyan Olushola
CEO DataAccess Systems Ltd
President, Wikimedia Nigeria
Member, Affcom ( Wikimedia Foundation)
Co-director Wiki Women Radio
www.wikimedia.org.ng
shola@wikimedia.org.ng
olaniyanshola15@gmail.com
+2348167352512








On Thu, May 28, 2020, 13:03 Maggie Dennis <mdennis@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> Hello, all.
>
> With the Board’s recent statement, this seems like a good time to launch
> the quarterly office hours I’ve been wanting to create for people who want
> to talk to me about issues involving “community resilience and
> sustainability,” including the work of Trust & Safety, whom I oversee.
> (after months of wanting to do this I’ve come to realize that I will always
> be "too busy" to feel like it's the perfect time for this. So I’m going to
> do it now anyway!)
>
> There’ve been requests to make office hours more personal, so I will host a
> Zoom hangout where people can join me, but I'll also take questions from
> Telegram and IRC.[1] I know that finding an hour that works for everybody
> is not going to happen, and I know from past office hours I’ve been
> involved in that I may get far more questions than I can answer (or,
> contrarily, nothing at all :)). Nevertheless, I will do my best to answer
> questions posed to me in that hour by Wikimedians in good standing (not
> Foundation or community banned) and to follow up in writing with any I
> don’t have time for over the next few days or week or so, time allowing. I
> might aggregate similar questions into a kind of FAQ. We’ll publish notes,
> anonymizing those who’ve asked questions, after.
>
> I do, however, have the following caveats:
>
> -
>
> I can’t and won’t discuss specific Trust & Safety cases. Instead, I can
> discuss Trust & Safety protocols and practices and approaches as well as
> some of the mistakes we’ve made, some of the things I’m proud of, and
> some
> of the things we’re hoping to do.
> -
>
> I will not respond to comments or questions that are disrespectful to
> me, to my colleagues, or to anyone in our communities. I can talk
> civilly
> about our work even if you disagree with me or I disagree with you. I
> won’t
> compromise on this.
>
>
> I’m not sure if I will stick with Zoom as the way I do office hours
> forever, but I am responding to some requests for spoken interaction while
> also trying to provide text options for those who prefer. I admit to being
> a little camera shy myself, so this is a challenge for me! If I embarrass
> myself too badly, I may retreat to the safety of text in future.
>
> I was hoping to have the Zoom link already, but while that’s being
> expedited by our office technology team, I don’t have it yet. I wanted to
> give interested people notice as soon as I knew the time. I’ll follow up
> with links again at least two hours in advance.
>
> The meeting will be on June 4th at 1800 UTC.
>
> I hope to see you there.
>
> Best,
>
> Maggie
>
> [1] Zoom link; Telegram link: https://t.me/joinchat/DOlGIB1FRLUWqW9iB3qfTQ
> ;
> directions for participating in IRC:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#How_to_participate
>
> --
> Maggie Dennis
> Vice President, Community Resilience & Sustainability
> Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] June 4 1800 Maggie Dennis office hour (with a twist) [ In reply to ]
Thanks for the link, Ciell, I easily get confused about time zones.
I am looking forward to attend on June 4th, if it is possible for me.
Kind regards
Ziko

Am Fr., 29. Mai 2020 um 20:20 Uhr schrieb Ciell Wikipedia <
ciell.wikipedia@gmail.com>:

> This will be very interesting, thank you Maggie.
> (To check your local time for this office hour: click here
> <
> https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Maggie+Dennis+office+hour+%28with+a+twist%29&iso=20200604T18&p1=1440&ah=1
> >)
>
>
> Vriendelijke groet,
> Ciell
>
>
> Op do 28 mei 2020 om 14:03 schreef Maggie Dennis <mdennis@wikimedia.org>:
>
> > Hello, all.
> >
> > With the Board’s recent statement, this seems like a good time to launch
> > the quarterly office hours I’ve been wanting to create for people who
> want
> > to talk to me about issues involving “community resilience and
> > sustainability,” including the work of Trust & Safety, whom I oversee.
> > (after months of wanting to do this I’ve come to realize that I will
> always
> > be "too busy" to feel like it's the perfect time for this. So I’m going
> to
> > do it now anyway!)
> >
> > There’ve been requests to make office hours more personal, so I will
> host a
> > Zoom hangout where people can join me, but I'll also take questions from
> > Telegram and IRC.[1] I know that finding an hour that works for everybody
> > is not going to happen, and I know from past office hours I’ve been
> > involved in that I may get far more questions than I can answer (or,
> > contrarily, nothing at all :)). Nevertheless, I will do my best to answer
> > questions posed to me in that hour by Wikimedians in good standing (not
> > Foundation or community banned) and to follow up in writing with any I
> > don’t have time for over the next few days or week or so, time allowing.
> I
> > might aggregate similar questions into a kind of FAQ. We’ll publish
> notes,
> > anonymizing those who’ve asked questions, after.
> >
> > I do, however, have the following caveats:
> >
> > -
> >
> > I can’t and won’t discuss specific Trust & Safety cases. Instead, I
> can
> > discuss Trust & Safety protocols and practices and approaches as well
> as
> > some of the mistakes we’ve made, some of the things I’m proud of, and
> > some
> > of the things we’re hoping to do.
> > -
> >
> > I will not respond to comments or questions that are disrespectful to
> > me, to my colleagues, or to anyone in our communities. I can talk
> > civilly
> > about our work even if you disagree with me or I disagree with you. I
> > won’t
> > compromise on this.
> >
> >
> > I’m not sure if I will stick with Zoom as the way I do office hours
> > forever, but I am responding to some requests for spoken interaction
> while
> > also trying to provide text options for those who prefer. I admit to
> being
> > a little camera shy myself, so this is a challenge for me! If I embarrass
> > myself too badly, I may retreat to the safety of text in future.
> >
> > I was hoping to have the Zoom link already, but while that’s being
> > expedited by our office technology team, I don’t have it yet. I wanted to
> > give interested people notice as soon as I knew the time. I’ll follow up
> > with links again at least two hours in advance.
> >
> > The meeting will be on June 4th at 1800 UTC.
> >
> > I hope to see you there.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Maggie
> >
> > [1] Zoom link; Telegram link:
> https://t.me/joinchat/DOlGIB1FRLUWqW9iB3qfTQ
> > ;
> > directions for participating in IRC:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#How_to_participate
> >
> > --
> > Maggie Dennis
> > Vice President, Community Resilience & Sustainability
> > Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] June 4 1800 Maggie Dennis office hour (with a twist) [ In reply to ]
Thank you, Maggie for the kind update, I am looking forward to it.

Best Regards,
Rajeeb Dutta.
(U: Marajozkee)
(Sent from my iPhone pardon the brevity)

> On 30-May-2020, at 2:53 PM, Ziko van Dijk <zvandijk@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ?Thanks for the link, Ciell, I easily get confused about time zones.
> I am looking forward to attend on June 4th, if it is possible for me.
> Kind regards
> Ziko
>
>> Am Fr., 29. Mai 2020 um 20:20 Uhr schrieb Ciell Wikipedia <
>> ciell.wikipedia@gmail.com>:
>>
>> This will be very interesting, thank you Maggie.
>> (To check your local time for this office hour: click here
>> <
>> https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Maggie+Dennis+office+hour+%28with+a+twist%29&iso=20200604T18&p1=1440&ah=1
>>> )
>>
>>
>> Vriendelijke groet,
>> Ciell
>>
>>
>> Op do 28 mei 2020 om 14:03 schreef Maggie Dennis <mdennis@wikimedia.org>:
>>
>>> Hello, all.
>>>
>>> With the Board’s recent statement, this seems like a good time to launch
>>> the quarterly office hours I’ve been wanting to create for people who
>> want
>>> to talk to me about issues involving “community resilience and
>>> sustainability,” including the work of Trust & Safety, whom I oversee.
>>> (after months of wanting to do this I’ve come to realize that I will
>> always
>>> be "too busy" to feel like it's the perfect time for this. So I’m going
>> to
>>> do it now anyway!)
>>>
>>> There’ve been requests to make office hours more personal, so I will
>> host a
>>> Zoom hangout where people can join me, but I'll also take questions from
>>> Telegram and IRC.[1] I know that finding an hour that works for everybody
>>> is not going to happen, and I know from past office hours I’ve been
>>> involved in that I may get far more questions than I can answer (or,
>>> contrarily, nothing at all :)). Nevertheless, I will do my best to answer
>>> questions posed to me in that hour by Wikimedians in good standing (not
>>> Foundation or community banned) and to follow up in writing with any I
>>> don’t have time for over the next few days or week or so, time allowing.
>> I
>>> might aggregate similar questions into a kind of FAQ. We’ll publish
>> notes,
>>> anonymizing those who’ve asked questions, after.
>>>
>>> I do, however, have the following caveats:
>>>
>>> -
>>>
>>> I can’t and won’t discuss specific Trust & Safety cases. Instead, I
>> can
>>> discuss Trust & Safety protocols and practices and approaches as well
>> as
>>> some of the mistakes we’ve made, some of the things I’m proud of, and
>>> some
>>> of the things we’re hoping to do.
>>> -
>>>
>>> I will not respond to comments or questions that are disrespectful to
>>> me, to my colleagues, or to anyone in our communities. I can talk
>>> civilly
>>> about our work even if you disagree with me or I disagree with you. I
>>> won’t
>>> compromise on this.
>>>
>>>
>>> I’m not sure if I will stick with Zoom as the way I do office hours
>>> forever, but I am responding to some requests for spoken interaction
>> while
>>> also trying to provide text options for those who prefer. I admit to
>> being
>>> a little camera shy myself, so this is a challenge for me! If I embarrass
>>> myself too badly, I may retreat to the safety of text in future.
>>>
>>> I was hoping to have the Zoom link already, but while that’s being
>>> expedited by our office technology team, I don’t have it yet. I wanted to
>>> give interested people notice as soon as I knew the time. I’ll follow up
>>> with links again at least two hours in advance.
>>>
>>> The meeting will be on June 4th at 1800 UTC.
>>>
>>> I hope to see you there.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Maggie
>>>
>>> [1] Zoom link; Telegram link:
>> https://t.me/joinchat/DOlGIB1FRLUWqW9iB3qfTQ
>>> ;
>>> directions for participating in IRC:
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#How_to_participate
>>>
>>> --
>>> Maggie Dennis
>>> Vice President, Community Resilience & Sustainability
>>> Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] June 4 1800 Maggie Dennis office hour (with a twist) [ In reply to ]
Every time I see the title of this thread, I momentarily wonder why this
event is being held 220 years ago.

Newyorkbrad/IBM

On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 5:37 AM Rajeeb Dutta <marajozkee@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thank you, Maggie for the kind update, I am looking forward to it.
>
> Best Regards,
> Rajeeb Dutta.
> (U: Marajozkee)
> (Sent from my iPhone pardon the brevity)
>
> > On 30-May-2020, at 2:53 PM, Ziko van Dijk <zvandijk@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > ?Thanks for the link, Ciell, I easily get confused about time zones.
> > I am looking forward to attend on June 4th, if it is possible for me.
> > Kind regards
> > Ziko
> >
> >> Am Fr., 29. Mai 2020 um 20:20 Uhr schrieb Ciell Wikipedia <
> >> ciell.wikipedia@gmail.com>:
> >>
> >> This will be very interesting, thank you Maggie.
> >> (To check your local time for this office hour: click here
> >> <
> >>
> https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Maggie+Dennis+office+hour+%28with+a+twist%29&iso=20200604T18&p1=1440&ah=1
> >>> )
> >>
> >>
> >> Vriendelijke groet,
> >> Ciell
> >>
> >>
> >> Op do 28 mei 2020 om 14:03 schreef Maggie Dennis <mdennis@wikimedia.org
> >:
> >>
> >>> Hello, all.
> >>>
> >>> With the Board’s recent statement, this seems like a good time to
> launch
> >>> the quarterly office hours I’ve been wanting to create for people who
> >> want
> >>> to talk to me about issues involving “community resilience and
> >>> sustainability,” including the work of Trust & Safety, whom I oversee.
> >>> (after months of wanting to do this I’ve come to realize that I will
> >> always
> >>> be "too busy" to feel like it's the perfect time for this. So I’m going
> >> to
> >>> do it now anyway!)
> >>>
> >>> There’ve been requests to make office hours more personal, so I will
> >> host a
> >>> Zoom hangout where people can join me, but I'll also take questions
> from
> >>> Telegram and IRC.[1] I know that finding an hour that works for
> everybody
> >>> is not going to happen, and I know from past office hours I’ve been
> >>> involved in that I may get far more questions than I can answer (or,
> >>> contrarily, nothing at all :)). Nevertheless, I will do my best to
> answer
> >>> questions posed to me in that hour by Wikimedians in good standing (not
> >>> Foundation or community banned) and to follow up in writing with any I
> >>> don’t have time for over the next few days or week or so, time
> allowing.
> >> I
> >>> might aggregate similar questions into a kind of FAQ. We’ll publish
> >> notes,
> >>> anonymizing those who’ve asked questions, after.
> >>>
> >>> I do, however, have the following caveats:
> >>>
> >>> -
> >>>
> >>> I can’t and won’t discuss specific Trust & Safety cases. Instead, I
> >> can
> >>> discuss Trust & Safety protocols and practices and approaches as well
> >> as
> >>> some of the mistakes we’ve made, some of the things I’m proud of, and
> >>> some
> >>> of the things we’re hoping to do.
> >>> -
> >>>
> >>> I will not respond to comments or questions that are disrespectful to
> >>> me, to my colleagues, or to anyone in our communities. I can talk
> >>> civilly
> >>> about our work even if you disagree with me or I disagree with you. I
> >>> won’t
> >>> compromise on this.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I’m not sure if I will stick with Zoom as the way I do office hours
> >>> forever, but I am responding to some requests for spoken interaction
> >> while
> >>> also trying to provide text options for those who prefer. I admit to
> >> being
> >>> a little camera shy myself, so this is a challenge for me! If I
> embarrass
> >>> myself too badly, I may retreat to the safety of text in future.
> >>>
> >>> I was hoping to have the Zoom link already, but while that’s being
> >>> expedited by our office technology team, I don’t have it yet. I wanted
> to
> >>> give interested people notice as soon as I knew the time. I’ll follow
> up
> >>> with links again at least two hours in advance.
> >>>
> >>> The meeting will be on June 4th at 1800 UTC.
> >>>
> >>> I hope to see you there.
> >>>
> >>> Best,
> >>>
> >>> Maggie
> >>>
> >>> [1] Zoom link; Telegram link:
> >> https://t.me/joinchat/DOlGIB1FRLUWqW9iB3qfTQ
> >>> ;
> >>> directions for participating in IRC:
> >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#How_to_participate
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Maggie Dennis
> >>> Vice President, Community Resilience & Sustainability
> >>> Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] June 4 1800 Maggie Dennis office hour (with a twist) [ In reply to ]
On Sun, 31 May 2020 at 05:50, Newyorkbrad <newyorkbrad@gmail.com> wrote:

> Every time I see the title of this thread, I momentarily wonder why this
> event is being held 220 years ago.
>

Military time :-)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] June 4 1800 Maggie Dennis office hour (with a twist) [ In reply to ]
Hello, all.

First, I’m sorry for not doing a better job introducing myself last time.
(I was told I should have done that.) I am Maggie Dennis. Currently I am
the Vice President of Community Resilience & Sustainability under the
General Counsel of the Foundation. I’ve been with the Foundation for 9
years in various roles, but always connected to the group who now conduct
Trust & Safety in one form or another. I am also a volunteer,
Moonriddengirl, primarily on English Wikipedia, although I am so much
diminished in my volunteering that it embarrasses me to point it out.

This office hour is still scheduled for 18:00 UTC June 4th. I will be on
camera, and it will be livestreamed here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGRXVx5EeCk

We will post notes from the meeting, with the identity of question-askers
anonymized, afterward. Questions can be submitted on Telegram [1], on IRC
[2] or in the YouTube Chat or by email in advance to answers@wikimedia.org
(To make sure they are presented during this meeting, please use “Trust &
Safety” as the subject line.)

I want to invite people to join me in the Zoom call itself as well. I’d
much rather be talking to people than nervously answering anonymous
questions. Since I’m told that there are security issues with publishing
the link, we’ll be sharing the link with interested individuals as the
meeting begins. If you want the link to get in, please ask for it at
answers@wikimedia.org, at least an hour in advance of the meeting’s start
(again, with “Trust & Safety” as the subject line). The link will be sent
out via email during the hour before the meeting.

If you are in Zoom, of course, and on camera or speaking out loud, people
who watch the stream will see you, so if you prefer more anonymity Telegram
or IRC may be more comfortable for you.

Best,

Maggie [3]


P.S. NewYorkBrad, colon added. :D 18:00. I was typing it the way my dad
always said it out loud. That said, I get stagefright and thus wouldn't be
at all unhappy to have finished this over 200 years ago. :)

[1] https://t.me/joinchat/DOlGIB1FRLUWqW9iB3qfTQ
[2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#How_to_participate
[3] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Mdennis_(WMF)

On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 7:59 AM Maggie Dennis <mdennis@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> Hello, all.
>
> With the Board’s recent statement, this seems like a good time to launch
> the quarterly office hours I’ve been wanting to create for people who want
> to talk to me about issues involving “community resilience and
> sustainability,” including the work of Trust & Safety, whom I oversee.
> (after months of wanting to do this I’ve come to realize that I will always
> be "too busy" to feel like it's the perfect time for this. So I’m going to
> do it now anyway!)
>
> There’ve been requests to make office hours more personal, so I will host
> a Zoom hangout where people can join me, but I'll also take questions from
> Telegram and IRC.[1] I know that finding an hour that works for everybody
> is not going to happen, and I know from past office hours I’ve been
> involved in that I may get far more questions than I can answer (or,
> contrarily, nothing at all :)). Nevertheless, I will do my best to answer
> questions posed to me in that hour by Wikimedians in good standing (not
> Foundation or community banned) and to follow up in writing with any I
> don’t have time for over the next few days or week or so, time allowing. I
> might aggregate similar questions into a kind of FAQ. We’ll publish notes,
> anonymizing those who’ve asked questions, after.
>
> I do, however, have the following caveats:
>
> -
>
> I can’t and won’t discuss specific Trust & Safety cases. Instead, I
> can discuss Trust & Safety protocols and practices and approaches as well
> as some of the mistakes we’ve made, some of the things I’m proud of, and
> some of the things we’re hoping to do.
> -
>
> I will not respond to comments or questions that are disrespectful to
> me, to my colleagues, or to anyone in our communities. I can talk civilly
> about our work even if you disagree with me or I disagree with you. I won’t
> compromise on this.
>
>
> I’m not sure if I will stick with Zoom as the way I do office hours
> forever, but I am responding to some requests for spoken interaction while
> also trying to provide text options for those who prefer. I admit to being
> a little camera shy myself, so this is a challenge for me! If I embarrass
> myself too badly, I may retreat to the safety of text in future.
>
> I was hoping to have the Zoom link already, but while that’s being
> expedited by our office technology team, I don’t have it yet. I wanted to
> give interested people notice as soon as I knew the time. I’ll follow up
> with links again at least two hours in advance.
>
> The meeting will be on June 4th at 1800 UTC.
>
> I hope to see you there.
>
> Best,
>
> Maggie
>
> [1] Zoom link; Telegram link: https://t.me/joinchat/DOlGIB1FRLUWqW9iB3qfTQ;
> directions for participating in IRC:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#How_to_participate
>
> --
> Maggie Dennis
> Vice President, Community Resilience & Sustainability
> Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
>


--
Maggie Dennis
Vice President, Community Resilience & Sustainability
Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] June 4 1800 Maggie Dennis office hour (with a twist) [ In reply to ]
Where can I find the Zoom link?

On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 11:24 PM Maggie Dennis <mdennis@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> Hello, all.
>
> First, I’m sorry for not doing a better job introducing myself last time.
> (I was told I should have done that.) I am Maggie Dennis. Currently I am
> the Vice President of Community Resilience & Sustainability under the
> General Counsel of the Foundation. I’ve been with the Foundation for 9
> years in various roles, but always connected to the group who now conduct
> Trust & Safety in one form or another. I am also a volunteer,
> Moonriddengirl, primarily on English Wikipedia, although I am so much
> diminished in my volunteering that it embarrasses me to point it out.
>
> This office hour is still scheduled for 18:00 UTC June 4th. I will be on
> camera, and it will be livestreamed here:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGRXVx5EeCk
>
> We will post notes from the meeting, with the identity of question-askers
> anonymized, afterward. Questions can be submitted on Telegram [1], on IRC
> [2] or in the YouTube Chat or by email in advance to answers@wikimedia.org
> (To make sure they are presented during this meeting, please use “Trust &
> Safety” as the subject line.)
>
> I want to invite people to join me in the Zoom call itself as well. I’d
> much rather be talking to people than nervously answering anonymous
> questions. Since I’m told that there are security issues with publishing
> the link, we’ll be sharing the link with interested individuals as the
> meeting begins. If you want the link to get in, please ask for it at
> answers@wikimedia.org, at least an hour in advance of the meeting’s start
> (again, with “Trust & Safety” as the subject line). The link will be sent
> out via email during the hour before the meeting.
>
> If you are in Zoom, of course, and on camera or speaking out loud, people
> who watch the stream will see you, so if you prefer more anonymity Telegram
> or IRC may be more comfortable for you.
>
> Best,
>
> Maggie [3]
>
>
> P.S. NewYorkBrad, colon added. :D 18:00. I was typing it the way my dad
> always said it out loud. That said, I get stagefright and thus wouldn't be
> at all unhappy to have finished this over 200 years ago. :)
>
> [1] https://t.me/joinchat/DOlGIB1FRLUWqW9iB3qfTQ
> [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#How_to_participate
> [3] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Mdennis_(WMF)
>
> On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 7:59 AM Maggie Dennis <mdennis@wikimedia.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello, all.
> >
> > With the Board’s recent statement, this seems like a good time to launch
> > the quarterly office hours I’ve been wanting to create for people who
> want
> > to talk to me about issues involving “community resilience and
> > sustainability,” including the work of Trust & Safety, whom I oversee.
> > (after months of wanting to do this I’ve come to realize that I will
> always
> > be "too busy" to feel like it's the perfect time for this. So I’m going
> to
> > do it now anyway!)
> >
> > There’ve been requests to make office hours more personal, so I will host
> > a Zoom hangout where people can join me, but I'll also take questions
> from
> > Telegram and IRC.[1] I know that finding an hour that works for everybody
> > is not going to happen, and I know from past office hours I’ve been
> > involved in that I may get far more questions than I can answer (or,
> > contrarily, nothing at all :)). Nevertheless, I will do my best to answer
> > questions posed to me in that hour by Wikimedians in good standing (not
> > Foundation or community banned) and to follow up in writing with any I
> > don’t have time for over the next few days or week or so, time allowing.
> I
> > might aggregate similar questions into a kind of FAQ. We’ll publish
> notes,
> > anonymizing those who’ve asked questions, after.
> >
> > I do, however, have the following caveats:
> >
> > -
> >
> > I can’t and won’t discuss specific Trust & Safety cases. Instead, I
> > can discuss Trust & Safety protocols and practices and approaches as
> well
> > as some of the mistakes we’ve made, some of the things I’m proud of,
> and
> > some of the things we’re hoping to do.
> > -
> >
> > I will not respond to comments or questions that are disrespectful to
> > me, to my colleagues, or to anyone in our communities. I can talk
> civilly
> > about our work even if you disagree with me or I disagree with you. I
> won’t
> > compromise on this.
> >
> >
> > I’m not sure if I will stick with Zoom as the way I do office hours
> > forever, but I am responding to some requests for spoken interaction
> while
> > also trying to provide text options for those who prefer. I admit to
> being
> > a little camera shy myself, so this is a challenge for me! If I embarrass
> > myself too badly, I may retreat to the safety of text in future.
> >
> > I was hoping to have the Zoom link already, but while that’s being
> > expedited by our office technology team, I don’t have it yet. I wanted to
> > give interested people notice as soon as I knew the time. I’ll follow up
> > with links again at least two hours in advance.
> >
> > The meeting will be on June 4th at 1800 UTC.
> >
> > I hope to see you there.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Maggie
> >
> > [1] Zoom link; Telegram link:
> https://t.me/joinchat/DOlGIB1FRLUWqW9iB3qfTQ;
> > directions for participating in IRC:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#How_to_participate
> >
> > --
> > Maggie Dennis
> > Vice President, Community Resilience & Sustainability
> > Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
> >
>
>
> --
> Maggie Dennis
> Vice President, Community Resilience & Sustainability
> Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] June 4 1800 Maggie Dennis office hour (with a twist) [ In reply to ]
Hi Ad,
We've sent you the zoom link offlist (per Maggie's note in the email below).

Also, the link for the stream is at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGRXVx5EeCk
Thanks.


On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 10:55 AM Ad Huikeshoven <ad@huikeshoven.org> wrote:

> Where can I find the Zoom link?
>
> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 11:24 PM Maggie Dennis <mdennis@wikimedia.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello, all.
> >
> > First, I’m sorry for not doing a better job introducing myself last time.
> > (I was told I should have done that.) I am Maggie Dennis. Currently I am
> > the Vice President of Community Resilience & Sustainability under the
> > General Counsel of the Foundation. I’ve been with the Foundation for 9
> > years in various roles, but always connected to the group who now conduct
> > Trust & Safety in one form or another. I am also a volunteer,
> > Moonriddengirl, primarily on English Wikipedia, although I am so much
> > diminished in my volunteering that it embarrasses me to point it out.
> >
> > This office hour is still scheduled for 18:00 UTC June 4th. I will be on
> > camera, and it will be livestreamed here:
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGRXVx5EeCk
> >
> > We will post notes from the meeting, with the identity of question-askers
> > anonymized, afterward. Questions can be submitted on Telegram [1], on IRC
> > [2] or in the YouTube Chat or by email in advance to
> answers@wikimedia.org
> > (To make sure they are presented during this meeting, please use “Trust &
> > Safety” as the subject line.)
> >
> > I want to invite people to join me in the Zoom call itself as well. I’d
> > much rather be talking to people than nervously answering anonymous
> > questions. Since I’m told that there are security issues with publishing
> > the link, we’ll be sharing the link with interested individuals as the
> > meeting begins. If you want the link to get in, please ask for it at
> > answers@wikimedia.org, at least an hour in advance of the meeting’s
> start
> > (again, with “Trust & Safety” as the subject line). The link will be sent
> > out via email during the hour before the meeting.
> >
> > If you are in Zoom, of course, and on camera or speaking out loud, people
> > who watch the stream will see you, so if you prefer more anonymity
> Telegram
> > or IRC may be more comfortable for you.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Maggie [3]
> >
> >
> > P.S. NewYorkBrad, colon added. :D 18:00. I was typing it the way my dad
> > always said it out loud. That said, I get stagefright and thus wouldn't
> be
> > at all unhappy to have finished this over 200 years ago. :)
> >
> > [1] https://t.me/joinchat/DOlGIB1FRLUWqW9iB3qfTQ
> > [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#How_to_participate
> > [3] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Mdennis_(WMF)
> >
> > On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 7:59 AM Maggie Dennis <mdennis@wikimedia.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hello, all.
> > >
> > > With the Board’s recent statement, this seems like a good time to
> launch
> > > the quarterly office hours I’ve been wanting to create for people who
> > want
> > > to talk to me about issues involving “community resilience and
> > > sustainability,” including the work of Trust & Safety, whom I oversee.
> > > (after months of wanting to do this I’ve come to realize that I will
> > always
> > > be "too busy" to feel like it's the perfect time for this. So I’m going
> > to
> > > do it now anyway!)
> > >
> > > There’ve been requests to make office hours more personal, so I will
> host
> > > a Zoom hangout where people can join me, but I'll also take questions
> > from
> > > Telegram and IRC.[1] I know that finding an hour that works for
> everybody
> > > is not going to happen, and I know from past office hours I’ve been
> > > involved in that I may get far more questions than I can answer (or,
> > > contrarily, nothing at all :)). Nevertheless, I will do my best to
> answer
> > > questions posed to me in that hour by Wikimedians in good standing (not
> > > Foundation or community banned) and to follow up in writing with any I
> > > don’t have time for over the next few days or week or so, time
> allowing.
> > I
> > > might aggregate similar questions into a kind of FAQ. We’ll publish
> > notes,
> > > anonymizing those who’ve asked questions, after.
> > >
> > > I do, however, have the following caveats:
> > >
> > > -
> > >
> > > I can’t and won’t discuss specific Trust & Safety cases. Instead, I
> > > can discuss Trust & Safety protocols and practices and approaches as
> > well
> > > as some of the mistakes we’ve made, some of the things I’m proud of,
> > and
> > > some of the things we’re hoping to do.
> > > -
> > >
> > > I will not respond to comments or questions that are disrespectful
> to
> > > me, to my colleagues, or to anyone in our communities. I can talk
> > civilly
> > > about our work even if you disagree with me or I disagree with you.
> I
> > won’t
> > > compromise on this.
> > >
> > >
> > > I’m not sure if I will stick with Zoom as the way I do office hours
> > > forever, but I am responding to some requests for spoken interaction
> > while
> > > also trying to provide text options for those who prefer. I admit to
> > being
> > > a little camera shy myself, so this is a challenge for me! If I
> embarrass
> > > myself too badly, I may retreat to the safety of text in future.
> > >
> > > I was hoping to have the Zoom link already, but while that’s being
> > > expedited by our office technology team, I don’t have it yet. I wanted
> to
> > > give interested people notice as soon as I knew the time. I’ll follow
> up
> > > with links again at least two hours in advance.
> > >
> > > The meeting will be on June 4th at 1800 UTC.
> > >
> > > I hope to see you there.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > >
> > > Maggie
> > >
> > > [1] Zoom link; Telegram link:
> > https://t.me/joinchat/DOlGIB1FRLUWqW9iB3qfTQ;
> > > directions for participating in IRC:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#How_to_participate
> > >
> > > --
> > > Maggie Dennis
> > > Vice President, Community Resilience & Sustainability
> > > Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Maggie Dennis
> > Vice President, Community Resilience & Sustainability
> > Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
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--
Nick "Quiddity" Wilson (he/him)
Community Relations Specialist
Wikimedia Foundation
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] June 4 1800 Maggie Dennis office hour (with a twist) [ In reply to ]
Thank you, Maggie, Elena and Nick for this meeting!

The event was very well organized on the first try, focused and informative.
Special thanks to Maggie for tirelessly answering all the questions and
giving insight to the wide spectrum of challenges.

It was great to hear that transparency will be an important part of the
processes to be developed and that the communities will be involved in
working out the details. I think this is going in the right direction to
establish trust and cooperation with the communities and a mutually
agreeable outcome.

Thank you to all participants and I hope there will be more meetings as
this project progresses!


Aron


On Tue, 2 Jun 2020 at 23:24, Maggie Dennis <mdennis@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> We will post notes from the meeting, with the identity of question-askers
> anonymized, afterward. Questions can be submitted on Telegram [1], on IRC
> [2] or in the YouTube Chat or by email in advance to answers@wikimedia.org
> (To make sure they are presented during this meeting, please use “Trust &
> Safety” as the subject line.)
>
>
_______________________________________________
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New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] June 4 1800 Maggie Dennis office hour (with a twist) [ In reply to ]
True, (because of connectivity issues I was disconnected for some time).
Thanks Maggie for answering the questions and clarifying things. All the
best and good wishes.

Thanks
Tito Dutta
Note: If I don't reply to your email in 2 days, please feel free to remind
me over email or phone call.


On Fri, 5 Jun 2020 at 01:17, Aron Manning <aronmanning5@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thank you, Maggie, Elena and Nick for this meeting!
>
> The event was very well organized on the first try, focused and
> informative.
> Special thanks to Maggie for tirelessly answering all the questions and
> giving insight to the wide spectrum of challenges.
>
> It was great to hear that transparency will be an important part of the
> processes to be developed and that the communities will be involved in
> working out the details. I think this is going in the right direction to
> establish trust and cooperation with the communities and a mutually
> agreeable outcome.
>
> Thank you to all participants and I hope there will be more meetings as
> this project progresses!
>
>
> Aron
>
>
> On Tue, 2 Jun 2020 at 23:24, Maggie Dennis <mdennis@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>
> > We will post notes from the meeting, with the identity of question-askers
> > anonymized, afterward. Questions can be submitted on Telegram [1], on IRC
> > [2] or in the YouTube Chat or by email in advance to
> answers@wikimedia.org
> > (To make sure they are presented during this meeting, please use “Trust &
> > Safety” as the subject line.)
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] June 4 1800 Maggie Dennis office hour (with a twist) [ In reply to ]
Thanks for offering to answer questions. I asked one but couldn't log onto
Zoom due to being busy.

Do we know when notes of the hour will be out?

Samuel/RhinosF1

On Fri, 5 Jun 2020 at 08:30, Pine W <wiki.pine@gmail.com> wrote:

> Agreed that office hours are a nice idea, although
>
> 1. For privacy reasons,I don't think that they need to be on video.
> Sue had them on IRC. In the Wikimedia Cafe several of us use audio
> only.
>
> 2. I'm digesting what Maggie said about the incidents of last July.
> I'm not sure that the version of events that was communicated to her
> captures how I would describe the multiple bad decisions that
> happened, and I'm not inclined to believe that the problems can be
> summed up as poor communications. I don't mean to put words in
> Maggie's mouth, and I don't think that she was trying to provide a
> comprehensive view of her briefing, but I also have concerns regarding
> what I heard in her summary, and I would encourage Maggie to probe
> extensively into what happened while she was on leave.
>
> I don't know what all was going on inside of WMF, but I would have
> wanted an outsider -- that is, not someone inside of WMF -- to review
> the actions of the staff, similar to how police departments are
> sometimes reviewed by outside agencies after high profile incidents,
> and I would want the report from that review to be public. Given my
> perspective on what happened, I think that at least one WMF staff
> person probably should have been demoted or fired, and perhaps more
> than one, up to and including Katherine. However, I don't have enough
> information to decide what accountability measures should have been
> taken. I would have more faith in the integrity of WMF if there had
> been an outside review as I describe here, including public
> accountability for the actions of individual staff, much as we do on
> English Wikipedia for administrators and functionaries.
>
> Pine
> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
>
> On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 6:30 AM Natacha Rault via Wikimedia-l
> <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
> >
> > Yes thank you very much. I really liked the sincerity and the straight
> to the point amswers. It feels great to be listened at and given sincere
> answers.
> >
> > Make this call a best practice, it rocked.
> >
> > Warm regards,
> >
> > Nattes à chat
> >
> > Envoyé de mon iPhone
> >
> > > Le 4 juin 2020 à 22:16, Tito Dutta <trulytito@gmail.com> a écrit :
> > >
> > > ?True, (because of connectivity issues I was disconnected for some
> time).
> > > Thanks Maggie for answering the questions and clarifying things. All
> the
> > > best and good wishes.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Tito Dutta
> > > Note: If I don't reply to your email in 2 days, please feel free to
> remind
> > > me over email or phone call.
> > >
> > >
> > >> On Fri, 5 Jun 2020 at 01:17, Aron Manning <aronmanning5@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Thank you, Maggie, Elena and Nick for this meeting!
> > >>
> > >> The event was very well organized on the first try, focused and
> > >> informative.
> > >> Special thanks to Maggie for tirelessly answering all the questions
> and
> > >> giving insight to the wide spectrum of challenges.
> > >>
> > >> It was great to hear that transparency will be an important part of
> the
> > >> processes to be developed and that the communities will be involved in
> > >> working out the details. I think this is going in the right direction
> to
> > >> establish trust and cooperation with the communities and a mutually
> > >> agreeable outcome.
> > >>
> > >> Thank you to all participants and I hope there will be more meetings
> as
> > >> this project progresses!
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Aron
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> On Tue, 2 Jun 2020 at 23:24, Maggie Dennis <mdennis@wikimedia.org>
> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> We will post notes from the meeting, with the identity of
> question-askers
> > >>> anonymized, afterward. Questions can be submitted on Telegram [1],
> on IRC
> > >>> [2] or in the YouTube Chat or by email in advance to
> > >> answers@wikimedia.org
> > >>> (To make sure they are presented during this meeting, please use
> “Trust &
> > >>> Safety” as the subject line.)
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> ,
> > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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>
> _______________________________________________
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--
Thanks,
Samuel
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] June 4 1800 Maggie Dennis office hour (with a twist) [ In reply to ]
Hi Pine,

1) For me, as non-native speaker, it really helps to see someone speak
while I am hearing them. I applaud Maggie for doing this on screen. There
is no need for recording, but the streaming really adds to my understanding
of what is being said.

2) Though I realise that it may be a case that is still really clear to
you, if she was not the person in charge at the time (Maggie was on leave
as she pointed out) and it's been 11 months, it is not strange that she
cannot recall all the details. I think her answer would have been more
specific when she would have had the time to research the question.
And with the new UCoC, an Ombudsman/audit would also be introduced for the
T&S cases. Imho this would be a good way to learn and develop from. For
staff, and for all Wikimedia users involved.

I am really interested in the "outside review for English administrators
and functionaries". Could you please share with me (on or off list) a link
to how that is formed, implemented and carried out?

Ciell
(she/her)


Op vr 5 jun. 2020 09:30 schreef Pine W <wiki.pine@gmail.com>:

> Agreed that office hours are a nice idea, although
>
> 1. For privacy reasons,I don't think that they need to be on video.
> Sue had them on IRC. In the Wikimedia Cafe several of us use audio
> only.
>
> 2. I'm digesting what Maggie said about the incidents of last July.
> I'm not sure that the version of events that was communicated to her
> captures how I would describe the multiple bad decisions that
> happened, and I'm not inclined to believe that the problems can be
> summed up as poor communications. I don't mean to put words in
> Maggie's mouth, and I don't think that she was trying to provide a
> comprehensive view of her briefing, but I also have concerns regarding
> what I heard in her summary, and I would encourage Maggie to probe
> extensively into what happened while she was on leave.
>
> I don't know what all was going on inside of WMF, but I would have
> wanted an outsider -- that is, not someone inside of WMF -- to review
> the actions of the staff, similar to how police departments are
> sometimes reviewed by outside agencies after high profile incidents,
> and I would want the report from that review to be public. Given my
> perspective on what happened, I think that at least one WMF staff
> person probably should have been demoted or fired, and perhaps more
> than one, up to and including Katherine. However, I don't have enough
> information to decide what accountability measures should have been
> taken. I would have more faith in the integrity of WMF if there had
> been an outside review as I describe here, including public
> accountability for the actions of individual staff, much as we do on
> English Wikipedia for administrators and functionaries.
>
> Pine
> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
>
> On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 6:30 AM Natacha Rault via Wikimedia-l
> <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
> >
> > Yes thank you very much. I really liked the sincerity and the straight
> to the point amswers. It feels great to be listened at and given sincere
> answers.
> >
> > Make this call a best practice, it rocked.
> >
> > Warm regards,
> >
> > Nattes à chat
> >
> > Envoyé de mon iPhone
> >
> > > Le 4 juin 2020 à 22:16, Tito Dutta <trulytito@gmail.com> a écrit :
> > >
> > > ?True, (because of connectivity issues I was disconnected for some
> time).
> > > Thanks Maggie for answering the questions and clarifying things. All
> the
> > > best and good wishes.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Tito Dutta
> > > Note: If I don't reply to your email in 2 days, please feel free to
> remind
> > > me over email or phone call.
> > >
> > >
> > >> On Fri, 5 Jun 2020 at 01:17, Aron Manning <aronmanning5@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Thank you, Maggie, Elena and Nick for this meeting!
> > >>
> > >> The event was very well organized on the first try, focused and
> > >> informative.
> > >> Special thanks to Maggie for tirelessly answering all the questions
> and
> > >> giving insight to the wide spectrum of challenges.
> > >>
> > >> It was great to hear that transparency will be an important part of
> the
> > >> processes to be developed and that the communities will be involved in
> > >> working out the details. I think this is going in the right direction
> to
> > >> establish trust and cooperation with the communities and a mutually
> > >> agreeable outcome.
> > >>
> > >> Thank you to all participants and I hope there will be more meetings
> as
> > >> this project progresses!
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Aron
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> On Tue, 2 Jun 2020 at 23:24, Maggie Dennis <mdennis@wikimedia.org>
> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> We will post notes from the meeting, with the identity of
> question-askers
> > >>> anonymized, afterward. Questions can be submitted on Telegram [1],
> on IRC
> > >>> [2] or in the YouTube Chat or by email in advance to
> > >> answers@wikimedia.org
> > >>> (To make sure they are presented during this meeting, please use
> “Trust &
> > >>> Safety” as the subject line.)
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> ,
> > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] June 4 1800 Maggie Dennis office hour (with a twist) [ In reply to ]
I agree. youtube  (+zoom) and chat worked very well. I still had problem
follow all that being said, and would like the "black" notice to have
been used more and show (just a few seconds) the question being
discussed. And besides applauds for Maggie being straight forward, I
also want to applaud (elene?) for coordinating the questions, and
forwarding her own - how does it fell for you to be in such a hot spot
as T&S has become .

I see this as best practice and hope it will be used for many more
info/discussion meetups.

Anders

Den 2020-06-05 kl. 09:48, skrev Ciell Wikipedia:
> Hi Pine,
>
> 1) For me, as non-native speaker, it really helps to see someone speak
> while I am hearing them. I applaud Maggie for doing this on screen. There
> is no need for recording, but the streaming really adds to my understanding
> of what is being said.
>
> 2) Though I realise that it may be a case that is still really clear to
> you, if she was not the person in charge at the time (Maggie was on leave
> as she pointed out) and it's been 11 months, it is not strange that she
> cannot recall all the details. I think her answer would have been more
> specific when she would have had the time to research the question.
> And with the new UCoC, an Ombudsman/audit would also be introduced for the
> T&S cases. Imho this would be a good way to learn and develop from. For
> staff, and for all Wikimedia users involved.
>
> I am really interested in the "outside review for English administrators
> and functionaries". Could you please share with me (on or off list) a link
> to how that is formed, implemented and carried out?
>
> Ciell
> (she/her)
>
>
> Op vr 5 jun. 2020 09:30 schreef Pine W <wiki.pine@gmail.com>:
>
>> Agreed that office hours are a nice idea, although
>>
>> 1. For privacy reasons,I don't think that they need to be on video.
>> Sue had them on IRC. In the Wikimedia Cafe several of us use audio
>> only.
>>
>> 2. I'm digesting what Maggie said about the incidents of last July.
>> I'm not sure that the version of events that was communicated to her
>> captures how I would describe the multiple bad decisions that
>> happened, and I'm not inclined to believe that the problems can be
>> summed up as poor communications. I don't mean to put words in
>> Maggie's mouth, and I don't think that she was trying to provide a
>> comprehensive view of her briefing, but I also have concerns regarding
>> what I heard in her summary, and I would encourage Maggie to probe
>> extensively into what happened while she was on leave.
>>
>> I don't know what all was going on inside of WMF, but I would have
>> wanted an outsider -- that is, not someone inside of WMF -- to review
>> the actions of the staff, similar to how police departments are
>> sometimes reviewed by outside agencies after high profile incidents,
>> and I would want the report from that review to be public. Given my
>> perspective on what happened, I think that at least one WMF staff
>> person probably should have been demoted or fired, and perhaps more
>> than one, up to and including Katherine. However, I don't have enough
>> information to decide what accountability measures should have been
>> taken. I would have more faith in the integrity of WMF if there had
>> been an outside review as I describe here, including public
>> accountability for the actions of individual staff, much as we do on
>> English Wikipedia for administrators and functionaries.
>>
>> Pine
>> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 6:30 AM Natacha Rault via Wikimedia-l
>> <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>> Yes thank you very much. I really liked the sincerity and the straight
>> to the point amswers. It feels great to be listened at and given sincere
>> answers.
>>> Make this call a best practice, it rocked.
>>>
>>> Warm regards,
>>>
>>> Nattes à chat
>>>
>>> Envoyé de mon iPhone
>>>
>>>> Le 4 juin 2020 à 22:16, Tito Dutta <trulytito@gmail.com> a écrit :
>>>>
>>>> ?True, (because of connectivity issues I was disconnected for some
>> time).
>>>> Thanks Maggie for answering the questions and clarifying things. All
>> the
>>>> best and good wishes.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Tito Dutta
>>>> Note: If I don't reply to your email in 2 days, please feel free to
>> remind
>>>> me over email or phone call.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 5 Jun 2020 at 01:17, Aron Manning <aronmanning5@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>> Thank you, Maggie, Elena and Nick for this meeting!
>>>>>
>>>>> The event was very well organized on the first try, focused and
>>>>> informative.
>>>>> Special thanks to Maggie for tirelessly answering all the questions
>> and
>>>>> giving insight to the wide spectrum of challenges.
>>>>>
>>>>> It was great to hear that transparency will be an important part of
>> the
>>>>> processes to be developed and that the communities will be involved in
>>>>> working out the details. I think this is going in the right direction
>> to
>>>>> establish trust and cooperation with the communities and a mutually
>>>>> agreeable outcome.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you to all participants and I hope there will be more meetings
>> as
>>>>> this project progresses!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Aron
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, 2 Jun 2020 at 23:24, Maggie Dennis <mdennis@wikimedia.org>
>> wrote:
>>>>>> We will post notes from the meeting, with the identity of
>> question-askers
>>>>>> anonymized, afterward. Questions can be submitted on Telegram [1],
>> on IRC
>>>>>> [2] or in the YouTube Chat or by email in advance to
>>>>> answers@wikimedia.org
>>>>>> (To make sure they are presented during this meeting, please use
>> “Trust &
>>>>>> Safety” as the subject line.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>> ,
>>>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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> _______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] June 4 1800 Maggie Dennis office hour (with a twist) [ In reply to ]
On Fri, 5 Jun 2020 at 09:30, Pine W <wiki.pine@gmail.com> wrote:

> 1. For privacy reasons,I don't think that they need to be on video.
> Sue had them on IRC. In the Wikimedia Cafe several of us use audio
> only.
>

It was great to have it in person. Conferencing is a great opportunity to
have a more humane experience in this binary environment.
Also there was an IRC channel. IRC however shares one's IP - unless a cloak
is set up, which is not trivial -, so how is that "privacy"?
I don't understand why some imaginary "privacy reasons" have to trump good
things, such as the openness of this meeting.
In any way, being on video was optional and questions on both IRC and
Youtube chats were answered. It was really well organized, professional, I
would say.

2. I'm digesting what Maggie said about the incidents of last July.
> I'm not sure that the version of events that was communicated to her
> captures how I would describe the multiple bad decisions that
> happened, and I'm not inclined to believe that the problems can be
> summed up as poor communications. I don't mean to put words in
> Maggie's mouth, and I don't think that she was trying to provide a
> comprehensive view of her briefing, but I also have concerns regarding
> what I heard in her summary, and I would encourage Maggie to probe
> extensively into what happened while she was on leave.
>

I don't think we can expect the WMF to admit the SANFRANBAN was motivated
by staff members' needs, not by the intent to protect the community and
address hostility in the admin ranks. Nor do I care, that's in the past and
the focus now is to create in collaboration with the communities better,
transparent and accountable processes instead of the secretive office
actions.


> I would have more faith in the integrity of WMF if there had
> been an outside review as I describe here, including public
>

It doesn't answer any of your questions, but I've just stumbled upon this
and thought you might be interested: 2019 Governance Review
<https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Board_Veritas_Governance_Recommendations_Final_Public_Copy.pdf>


an outside review as I describe here, including public
>
accountability for the actions of individual staff,
> *much as we do on English Wikipedia for administrators and functionaries*.
>

Emphasis mine. What kind of public review is there on enwiki? WP:DESYSOP2019
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/2019_community_sentiment_on_binding_desysop_procedure>
?
I recall a few admins alleged it would be "abused", so better not have it
(aka. no consensus).

In practice not even policy violations can be reported, unless you are a
well-known admin or established editor, or want to get banned.

Regarding functionaries: the Ombudsman Commission had *9 cases older than
one year *at the end of March (ref
<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ombudsman_commission/2020/Report_Jan-Mar>)
and *24 unsolved cases* altogether.
This trend has been ongoing for years, in 2018 first half there were 2
cases closed (in 6 months!) and 12 open...
Besides, the OC only reports the number of cases, nothing else in public.
What kind of "public accountability" is there for functionaries?

As I see both sides need to improve accountability and the capability for
self-review. Holding people accountable does not mean, however, that heads
need to fall, admins be desysoped and employees fired. That approach
creates a battlefield environment: fight for yourself till the last
breath, then be gone. That's not healthy. Accountability means to recognize
that the results of our actions (not just mistakes) could be better and to
learn from it, improve and (on an advanced level) fix the mistakes. That
last part seldom happens, but the first step is to recognize the mistakes
and that's the step we are at now.

I appreciate that Maggie has shown a much more open and transparent
approach than we've experienced in the office actions consultation
<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Office_actions/Community_consultation_on_partial_and_temporary_office_actions/09_2019>.
This gives me more faith that the implementation of these recommendations
will be more for the benefit of the whole community than one small group.


Aron Manning (Demian)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] June 4 1800 Maggie Dennis office hour (with a twist) [ In reply to ]
On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 11:17 AM Aron Manning <aronmanning5@gmail.com> wrote:

> It doesn't answer any of your questions, but I've just stumbled upon this
> and thought you might be interested: 2019 Governance Review
> <
> https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Board_Veritas_Governance_Recommendations_Final_Public_Copy.pdf
> >
>
> Thanks for the link. That is an interesting read. On page 11:
*"4. Commission a stakeholder analysis to expose and address instances
where goals and priorities of the community and the Foundation may be at
odds"*

I am interested to read a stakeholder analysis. So far, I haven't found one
in the Wikimedia Movement 2030 strategy process, but I might have
overlooked it. Who are our stakeholders? What are their needs? What needs
are unmet? How important are those stakeholders for the movement, how
important are we for those stakeholders? How powerful are those
stakeholders?

Veritas recommended; "The Foundation should commission a task force or
third party to conduct a thorough Stakeholder Analysis "
Has a task force of third been commissioned to conduct a thorough
stakeholder analysis?

Veritas recommended as the first priority next step on page 19:
Commission a stakeholder analysis and/or utilize a task force to gain a
full understanding of instances where goals and priorities of the
Movement/community and the Foundation may vary or be at odds, so that these
can be properly addressed by the board and CEO in partnership, utilizing
community input.

So please, I would like to know what step the board or CEO has taken
regarding stakeholder analysis.

Regards,

Ad
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] June 4 1800 Maggie Dennis office hour (with a twist) [ In reply to ]
Hi Pine,

On 2020-06-05 00:29, Pine W wrote:
> I don't know what all was going on inside of WMF, but I would have
> wanted an outsider -- that is, not someone inside of WMF -- to review
> the actions of the staff, similar to how police departments are
> sometimes reviewed by outside agencies after high profile incidents,
> and I would want the report from that review to be public. Given my
> perspective on what happened, I think that at least one WMF staff
> person probably should have been demoted or fired, and perhaps more
> than one, up to and including Katherine. However, I don't have enough
> information to decide what accountability measures should have been
> taken.

So by your own account, you don't have enough information, yet you're
still calling for people to be fired. We went over this in January -
stop it.

https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2020-January/094131.html

https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2020-January/094130.html

-- Legoktm

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] June 4 1800 Maggie Dennis office hour (with a twist) [ In reply to ]
(I won't make this personal and this is *not* to *anyone* or about any past
incident in specific.)
But I second Legoktm on this. That was surprising to me as well.
We have pages and essays on Wikipedia such as
* IPs are human too (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IPs_are_human_too),
* Arbs are people too (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbs_are_people_too),
* Admins are people too (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Admins_are_people_too)
We may need to have a similar essay/writing "WMF staff are people too" or
something similar (unless we have it already, a quick search on Wikipedia,
and Google showed nothing)

Thanks and regards
User:Titodutta


On Sat, 6 Jun 2020 at 04:39, Kunal Mehta <legoktm@member.fsf.org> wrote:

> Hi Pine,
>
> On 2020-06-05 00:29, Pine W wrote:
> > I don't know what all was going on inside of WMF, but I would have
> > wanted an outsider -- that is, not someone inside of WMF -- to review
> > the actions of the staff, similar to how police departments are
> > sometimes reviewed by outside agencies after high profile incidents,
> > and I would want the report from that review to be public. Given my
> > perspective on what happened, I think that at least one WMF staff
> > person probably should have been demoted or fired, and perhaps more
> > than one, up to and including Katherine. However, I don't have enough
> > information to decide what accountability measures should have been
> > taken.
>
> So by your own account, you don't have enough information, yet you're
> still calling for people to be fired. We went over this in January -
> stop it.
>
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2020-January/094131.html
>
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2020-January/094130.html
>
> -- Legoktm
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] June 4 1800 Maggie Dennis office hour (with a twist) [ In reply to ]
Hello,

I'm trying to respond to this calmly here.

I request we think about the issues from some more angles.

I feel somewhat defensive, but not combative. I hope that this makes sense.

English Wikipedia took an enormous amount of volunteer effort to
build, and volunteers are people too. Some of us, like WMF staff, are
aware of risks to ourselves from our participation.

When people cause problems on wiki, such as with undisclosed paid
editing, we have a range of ways that we respond to that, including
blocking people. English Wikipedia is like a country, and as with any
county we need to deal with people who create problems, ranging from
minor issues to major issues. Maggie discussed some of the major
issues in her office hour, and I appreciate her and WMF trying to
address them.

We don't accept citizens and government employees doing whatever they
want. For example, if an administrator on English Wikipedia uses their
administrative permissions to lock a page from being edited when they
are involved in the content dispute, that lock will probably be
overruled. Depending on the administrator's past conduct, they may be
given anything from a reminder to a removal of their administrative
permissions.

One of the important concerns regarding the activities in the wiki is
that people aren't getting the support that they need when they are
feeling attacked.

I don't have answers to many problems in our world and on wiki, and I
think that none of us are claiming to. However, I'm certain that in
some circumstances, removing people is the right thing to do.

If this comes across as "Pine thinks that he has all the answers" or
something like that, please, please contact me off list, and let's
find a time to have a voice conversation.

Thanks,

Pine
( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] June 4 1800 Maggie Dennis office hour (with a twist) [ In reply to ]
Hello, all!

The notes of the hour are out now! Apologies for the delay; I wanted to get
answers to a few questions that came in after the session and where I
wasn't able to answer at the time before reading a link. They have been
marked for translation.
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours/Office_hours_2020-06-04

Thanks to Ad for saving me from myself and moving them from July to June.
:)

I also thank those of you who said kind things about the hour...and who
asked even hard questions in kind ways. I plan to do this again in a few
months, with more notice this time.

Warm regards,
Maggie

On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 3:37 AM RhinosF1 - <rhinosf1@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks for offering to answer questions. I asked one but couldn't log onto
> Zoom due to being busy.
>
> Do we know when notes of the hour will be out?
>
> Samuel/RhinosF1
>
> On Fri, 5 Jun 2020 at 08:30, Pine W <wiki.pine@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Agreed that office hours are a nice idea, although
>>
>> 1. For privacy reasons,I don't think that they need to be on video.
>> Sue had them on IRC. In the Wikimedia Cafe several of us use audio
>> only.
>>
>> 2. I'm digesting what Maggie said about the incidents of last July.
>> I'm not sure that the version of events that was communicated to her
>> captures how I would describe the multiple bad decisions that
>> happened, and I'm not inclined to believe that the problems can be
>> summed up as poor communications. I don't mean to put words in
>> Maggie's mouth, and I don't think that she was trying to provide a
>> comprehensive view of her briefing, but I also have concerns regarding
>> what I heard in her summary, and I would encourage Maggie to probe
>> extensively into what happened while she was on leave.
>>
>> I don't know what all was going on inside of WMF, but I would have
>> wanted an outsider -- that is, not someone inside of WMF -- to review
>> the actions of the staff, similar to how police departments are
>> sometimes reviewed by outside agencies after high profile incidents,
>> and I would want the report from that review to be public. Given my
>> perspective on what happened, I think that at least one WMF staff
>> person probably should have been demoted or fired, and perhaps more
>> than one, up to and including Katherine. However, I don't have enough
>> information to decide what accountability measures should have been
>> taken. I would have more faith in the integrity of WMF if there had
>> been an outside review as I describe here, including public
>> accountability for the actions of individual staff, much as we do on
>> English Wikipedia for administrators and functionaries.
>>
>> Pine
>> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 6:30 AM Natacha Rault via Wikimedia-l
>> <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > Yes thank you very much. I really liked the sincerity and the straight
>> to the point amswers. It feels great to be listened at and given sincere
>> answers.
>> >
>> > Make this call a best practice, it rocked.
>> >
>> > Warm regards,
>> >
>> > Nattes à chat
>> >
>> > Envoyé de mon iPhone
>> >
>> > > Le 4 juin 2020 à 22:16, Tito Dutta <trulytito@gmail.com> a écrit :
>> > >
>> > > ?True, (because of connectivity issues I was disconnected for some
>> time).
>> > > Thanks Maggie for answering the questions and clarifying things. All
>> the
>> > > best and good wishes.
>> > >
>> > > Thanks
>> > > Tito Dutta
>> > > Note: If I don't reply to your email in 2 days, please feel free to
>> remind
>> > > me over email or phone call.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >> On Fri, 5 Jun 2020 at 01:17, Aron Manning <aronmanning5@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> Thank you, Maggie, Elena and Nick for this meeting!
>> > >>
>> > >> The event was very well organized on the first try, focused and
>> > >> informative.
>> > >> Special thanks to Maggie for tirelessly answering all the questions
>> and
>> > >> giving insight to the wide spectrum of challenges.
>> > >>
>> > >> It was great to hear that transparency will be an important part of
>> the
>> > >> processes to be developed and that the communities will be involved
>> in
>> > >> working out the details. I think this is going in the right
>> direction to
>> > >> establish trust and cooperation with the communities and a mutually
>> > >> agreeable outcome.
>> > >>
>> > >> Thank you to all participants and I hope there will be more meetings
>> as
>> > >> this project progresses!
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Aron
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>> On Tue, 2 Jun 2020 at 23:24, Maggie Dennis <mdennis@wikimedia.org>
>> wrote:
>> > >>>
>> > >>> We will post notes from the meeting, with the identity of
>> question-askers
>> > >>> anonymized, afterward. Questions can be submitted on Telegram [1],
>> on IRC
>> > >>> [2] or in the YouTube Chat or by email in advance to
>> > >> answers@wikimedia.org
>> > >>> (To make sure they are presented during this meeting, please use
>> “Trust &
>> > >>> Safety” as the subject line.)
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >> _______________________________________________
>> > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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> --
> Thanks,
> Samuel
>


--
Maggie Dennis
Vice President, Community Resilience & Sustainability
Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
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