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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why renaming to Wikipedia will wreak havoc on other projects
Can you provide some links?
I keep asking images for Wikidata items since years and I do not recall any issue at all. I have the feeling that as long everything is formally correct (all categories prepared and linked via wikidata infobox) nobody digs into that very much.
It's true however that I have a cynical approach. In general, I think that whoever spends his/her time on this and not on deleting unused low resolution old images or cropping files or improving categorization is probably more focused on chasing users than actually cleaning up. As soon as you assume that this is the core source of the behavior, you can teach newbies quite well how to avoid it. It's not "good faith" but... it kinda works.
Alessandro

Il martedì 25 febbraio 2020, 17:11:44 CET, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen@gmail.com> ha scritto:

Hoi,
Apparantly at Commons they have standardised themselves to only support
Wikipedia.

At Wikidata we have people who are notable according to our standards. We
are actively asking them for images to illustrate our information. The best
suggestion we get is: do not ask for images because they are deleted at
Commons.

When this is what awaits us when we standardise on one label Wikipedia, it
is obvious that this is the worst scenario for the "other" projects. The
projects who operate to different standards who have notability criteria
different from English Wikipedia.
Thanks,
      GerardM
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why renaming to Wikipedia will wreak havoc on otherprojects [ In reply to ]
I haven't seen any evidence of this on Commons. We do delete selfies of non-Wikimedians because we are not Facebook. Apart from that, I'd like to see some evidence for this. Thanks

User:Rodhullandemu

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----- Original Message -----
From: Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
Reply-To: Alessandro Marchetti <alexmar983@yahoo.it>, Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
Sent: 25/02/2020 16:45:02
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why renaming to Wikipedia will wreak havoc on otherprojects
________________________________________________________________________________

Can you provide some links?
I keep asking images for Wikidata items since years and I do not recall any issue at all. I have the feeling that as long everything is formally correct (all categories prepared and linked via wikidata infobox) nobody digs into that very much.
It's true however that I have a cynical approach. In general, I think that whoever spends his/her time on this and not on deleting unused low resolution old images or cropping files or improving categorization is probably more focused on chasing users than actually cleaning up. As soon as you assume that this is the core source of the behavior, you can teach newbies quite well how to avoid it. It's not "good faith" but... it kinda works.
Alessandro

Il martedì 25 febbraio 2020, 17:11:44 CET, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen@gmail.com> ha scritto:

Hoi,
Apparantly at Commons they have standardised themselves to only support
Wikipedia.

At Wikidata we have people who are notable according to our standards. We
are actively asking them for images to illustrate our information. The best
suggestion we get is: do not ask for images because they are deleted at
Commons.

When this is what awaits us when we standardise on one label Wikipedia, it
is obvious that this is the worst scenario for the "other" projects. The
projects who operate to different standards who have notability criteria
different from English Wikipedia.
Thanks,
GerardM
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why renaming to Wikipedia will wreak havoc on otherprojects [ In reply to ]
I think this is what is being referenced:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:OTRS/Noticeboard#OTRS_&_Wikidata

On Tue, 25 Feb 2020 at 17:09, Phil Nash via Wikimedia-l <
wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:

> I haven't seen any evidence of this on Commons. We do delete selfies of
> non-Wikimedians because we are not Facebook. Apart from that, I'd like to
> see some evidence for this. Thanks
>
> User:Rodhullandemu
>
> ---
> New Outlook Express and Windows Live Mail replacement - get it here:
> https://www.oeclassic.com/
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l <
> wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
> Reply-To: Alessandro Marchetti <alexmar983@yahoo.it>, Wikimedia Mailing
> List <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
> Sent: 25/02/2020 16:45:02
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why renaming to Wikipedia will wreak havoc on
> otherprojects
>
> ________________________________________________________________________________
>
> Can you provide some links?
> I keep asking images for Wikidata items since years and I do not recall
> any issue at all. I have the feeling that as long everything is formally
> correct (all categories prepared and linked via wikidata infobox) nobody
> digs into that very much.
> It's true however that I have a cynical approach. In general, I think that
> whoever spends his/her time on this and not on deleting unused low
> resolution old images or cropping files or improving categorization is
> probably more focused on chasing users than actually cleaning up. As soon
> as you assume that this is the core source of the behavior, you can teach
> newbies quite well how to avoid it. It's not "good faith" but... it kinda
> works.
> Alessandro
>
> Il martedì 25 febbraio 2020, 17:11:44 CET, Gerard Meijssen <
> gerard.meijssen@gmail.com> ha scritto:
>
> Hoi,
> Apparantly at Commons they have standardised themselves to only support
> Wikipedia.
>
> At Wikidata we have people who are notable according to our standards. We
> are actively asking them for images to illustrate our information. The best
> suggestion we get is: do not ask for images because they are deleted at
> Commons.
>
> When this is what awaits us when we standardise on one label Wikipedia, it
> is obvious that this is the worst scenario for the "other" projects. The
> projects who operate to different standards who have notability criteria
> different from English Wikipedia.
> Thanks,
> GerardM
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
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She/Her
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why renaming to Wikipedia will wreak havoc on other projects [ In reply to ]
Hoi,
This is the chat (too long) at Wikidata
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Project_chat#Images_for_Wikidata_-_%22Global_Young_Academy%22
This is the chat at Commons
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:OTRS/Noticeboard#OTRS_&_Wikidata
Thanks,
GerardM

On Tue, 25 Feb 2020 at 17:45, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l <
wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:

> Can you provide some links?
> I keep asking images for Wikidata items since years and I do not recall
> any issue at all. I have the feeling that as long everything is formally
> correct (all categories prepared and linked via wikidata infobox) nobody
> digs into that very much.
> It's true however that I have a cynical approach. In general, I think that
> whoever spends his/her time on this and not on deleting unused low
> resolution old images or cropping files or improving categorization is
> probably more focused on chasing users than actually cleaning up. As soon
> as you assume that this is the core source of the behavior, you can teach
> newbies quite well how to avoid it. It's not "good faith" but... it kinda
> works.
> Alessandro
>
> Il martedì 25 febbraio 2020, 17:11:44 CET, Gerard Meijssen <
> gerard.meijssen@gmail.com> ha scritto:
>
> Hoi,
> Apparantly at Commons they have standardised themselves to only support
> Wikipedia.
>
> At Wikidata we have people who are notable according to our standards. We
> are actively asking them for images to illustrate our information. The best
> suggestion we get is: do not ask for images because they are deleted at
> Commons.
>
> When this is what awaits us when we standardise on one label Wikipedia, it
> is obvious that this is the worst scenario for the "other" projects. The
> projects who operate to different standards who have notability criteria
> different from English Wikipedia.
> Thanks,
> GerardM
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why renaming to Wikipedia will wreak havoc on otherprojects [ In reply to ]
On Tue, 25 Feb 2020 at 17:10, Rebecca O'Neill <rebeccanineil@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I think this is what is being referenced:
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:OTRS/Noticeboard#OTRS_&_Wikidata

Thank you; it is.

The issue is not with Commons, but with Commons' OTRS.

tl;dr = wanted photographs of individuals with items on Wikidata
(established 2012) , that meet Wikidata's notability criteria, are
being rejected, unseen by the Commons or Wikidata communities, by OTRS
volunteers, based on a 2010 policy that is on a password-protected
wiki. Requests for details how how that policy was arrived at, and how
it can be changed, remain unanswered.

--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why renaming to Wikipedia will wreak havoc on otherprojects [ In reply to ]
Hoi,
For me there is no difference. When Commons OTRS is not behaving as is to
be expected, they provide a serious disservice to our movement and yes, it
may be volunteering but that is not a reason to accept what is not
acceptable.

What will be done to remedy this predicament?
Thanks,
GerardM


On Tue, 25 Feb 2020 at 20:31, Andy Mabbett <andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk>
wrote:

> On Tue, 25 Feb 2020 at 17:10, Rebecca O'Neill <rebeccanineil@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > I think this is what is being referenced:
> >
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:OTRS/Noticeboard#OTRS_&_Wikidata
>
> Thank you; it is.
>
> The issue is not with Commons, but with Commons' OTRS.
>
> tl;dr = wanted photographs of individuals with items on Wikidata
> (established 2012) , that meet Wikidata's notability criteria, are
> being rejected, unseen by the Commons or Wikidata communities, by OTRS
> volunteers, based on a 2010 policy that is on a password-protected
> wiki. Requests for details how how that policy was arrived at, and how
> it can be changed, remain unanswered.
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why renaming to Wikipedia will wreak havoc on other projects [ In reply to ]
This does seem unreasonable. Do they have an explanation at Commons?
This is happening without standardising in one label Wikipedia, so it is jumping to quite a conclusion to assume that the issue is related.
For the record, I am also opposed to rebranding to Wikipedia, but I do not think this issue is necessarily related.
Cheers,
Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 6:10 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Why renaming to Wikipedia will wreak havoc on other projects

Hoi,
Apparantly at Commons they have standardised themselves to only support
Wikipedia.

At Wikidata we have people who are notable according to our standards. We
are actively asking them for images to illustrate our information. The best
suggestion we get is: do not ask for images because they are deleted at
Commons.

When this is what awaits us when we standardise on one label Wikipedia, it
is obvious that this is the worst scenario for the "other" projects. The
projects who operate to different standards who have notability criteria
different from English Wikipedia.
Thanks,
GerardM
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why renaming to Wikipedia will wreak havoc on other projects [ In reply to ]
The OP is misleading. The issue is not with Commons at all, but with OTRS.
As far as I know, Commons never, ever, deleted a file which was in use in
any Wikimedia project, with the notable expectation of copyvios. Otherwise,
use in *any* wikimedia project = on scope for Commons.

Apparently some OTRS volunteers follow some outdated procedures - including
that one related to selfies, which was mentioned - but that is a problem
exclusively with OTRS. I'm part of that team, and I always had the freedom
to decide which looked like a genuine selfie, and which was problematic at
that (e.g., with a copyright notice at the metadata). And, as far as I
know, anyone willing to help fixing those problems at OTRS is very much
welcome there. When the volunteers are very few, and the ones complaining
do not volunteer themselves, it only adds up to the pressure on the few
existing volunteers, making everything worse.

Best,
Paulo

Peter Southwood <peter.southwood@telkomsa.net> escreveu no dia quarta,
26/02/2020 à(s) 06:04:

> This does seem unreasonable. Do they have an explanation at Commons?
> This is happening without standardising in one label Wikipedia, so it is
> jumping to quite a conclusion to assume that the issue is related.
> For the record, I am also opposed to rebranding to Wikipedia, but I do not
> think this issue is necessarily related.
> Cheers,
> Peter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On
> Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen
> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 6:10 PM
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Why renaming to Wikipedia will wreak havoc on other
> projects
>
> Hoi,
> Apparantly at Commons they have standardised themselves to only support
> Wikipedia.
>
> At Wikidata we have people who are notable according to our standards. We
> are actively asking them for images to illustrate our information. The best
> suggestion we get is: do not ask for images because they are deleted at
> Commons.
>
> When this is what awaits us when we standardise on one label Wikipedia, it
> is obvious that this is the worst scenario for the "other" projects. The
> projects who operate to different standards who have notability criteria
> different from English Wikipedia.
> Thanks,
> GerardM
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
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> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
>
>
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