Mailing List Archive

"Peter" <email@ace.net.au> writes:

> New to TXrep, the manual says the add-addr-to-whitelist command should add
> -100, but for me it doesn't do anything - nor does add-addr-to-blacklist.
>
> It comes back with SpamAssassin TxRep: 1 with either the white or
> blacklist.
>
> While the server is new, I want to be able to adjust a senders score, but
> don't want to make new rules which will be there forever.
>
> Am I missing something?

I have also struggled with understanding what's going on, and tried to
run some scripts to look at the database.

If what you want is to preload a good reputation that will then be
subject to adjustment, you probably want to write a program to adjust
the database and say put in fake data that the average score is -5 over
10 messages, and then let it go.

Beware though that txrep is per sender, per sender/addr pair, and other
things (I forget the details), and so you may need to put in more fake
data than you are willing to put up with.

If you are putting in -100 and it stays, I don't see why that should be
about txrep rather than just fixed huge scores for addresses.

I think what SA needs is a welcomelist command that takes a score, or
maybe just a welcomelist_mild that gives -5. I'm uncomfortable putting
tons of addresses in welcomelist without dkim or rcvd, but -5 might be
ok, enough to keep ham out of my purgatory folders (>1 < 5) while also
keeping any forged spam out of inbox (<1).

I just want the command to work as advertised. It worked for AWL on my
older system, made life a lot easier.


*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 16/12/2021 at 9:36 AM Greg Troxel wrote:

>"Peter" <email@ace.net.au> writes:
>
>> New to TXrep, the manual says the add-addr-to-whitelist command should
>add
>> -100, but for me it doesn't do anything - nor does
add-addr-to-blacklist.
>>
>> It comes back with SpamAssassin TxRep: 1 with either the white or
>> blacklist.
>>
>> While the server is new, I want to be able to adjust a senders score,
but
>> don't want to make new rules which will be there forever.
>>
>> Am I missing something?
>
>I have also struggled with understanding what's going on, and tried to
>run some scripts to look at the database.
>
>If what you want is to preload a good reputation that will then be
>subject to adjustment, you probably want to write a program to adjust
>the database and say put in fake data that the average score is -5 over
>10 messages, and then let it go.
>
>Beware though that txrep is per sender, per sender/addr pair, and other
>things (I forget the details), and so you may need to put in more fake
>data than you are willing to put up with.
>
>If you are putting in -100 and it stays, I don't see why that should be
>about txrep rather than just fixed huge scores for addresses.
>
>I think what SA needs is a welcomelist command that takes a score, or
>maybe just a welcomelist_mild that gives -5. I'm uncomfortable putting
>tons of addresses in welcomelist without dkim or rcvd, but -5 might be
>ok, enough to keep ham out of my purgatory folders (>1 < 5) while also
>keeping any forged spam out of inbox (<1).

Hey Peter: Your mailserver appears to be a bit aggressive and is
blocking mail from people on the list who are replying to you:

<email@ace.net.au>: host acemail1.ace.net.au[150.101.236.36] said: 553 5.3.0
Rejected 71.19.148.97 by clients-b.blocked.rbl (in reply to MAIL FROM
command)

multirbl.valli.org shows no issues, and I'm even in DNSWL_MED.

Hi Greg,

Yeah, my blocklists are pretty extreme, normally serves me well, but I
apologize to those trying to help. I was thinking that replies would show
up here.

I have just cleared 71.19.144.0/20 just in case so hopefully those replies
can come in.

Perhaps I should create an account on a mail server without RBL blocking?



*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 16/12/2021 at 10:01 AM Greg Troxel wrote:

>Hey Peter: Your mailserver appears to be a bit aggressive and is
>blocking mail from people on the list who are replying to you:
>
> <email@ace.net.au>: host acemail1.ace.net.au[150.101.236.36] said: 553
>5.3.0
> Rejected 71.19.148.97 by clients-b.blocked.rbl (in reply to MAIL
FROM
> command)
>
>multirbl.valli.org shows no issues, and I'm even in DNSWL_MED.

On Thursday 16 December 2021 at 21:21:28, Peter wrote:

> I was thinking that replies would show up here.

> Perhaps I should create an account on a mail server without RBL blocking?

Either that, or (preferably) stop your email client from enforcing a Reply-To
address which is different from the mailing list.

Then you will receive replies from people via the list.


Antony.

--
Python is executable pseudocode.
Perl is executable line noise.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.

Thanks, I hadn't thought about that.

I am curious though, I normall hit Reply rather than Reply to All, and with
your email Reply just uses your own address, I need to hit Reply to All to
get it on the list. Is that what has been happening with mine, and why
does it happen with replies to your posts?

Is this post better?


*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 16/12/2021 at 9:28 PM Antony Stone wrote:

>On Thursday 16 December 2021 at 21:21:28, Peter wrote:
>
>> I was thinking that replies would show up here.
>
>> Perhaps I should create an account on a mail server without RBL
blocking?
>
>Either that, or (preferably) stop your email client from enforcing a
>Reply-To
>address which is different from the mailing list.
>
>Then you will receive replies from people via the list.
>
>
>Antony.
>
>--
>Python is executable pseudocode.
>Perl is executable line noise.
>
> Please reply to the
>list;
> please *don't* CC
>me.

On Thursday 16 December 2021 at 21:43:04, Peter wrote:

> Thanks, I hadn't thought about that.
>
> I am curious though, I normall hit Reply rather than Reply to All, and with
> your email Reply just uses your own address,

That, I find strange.

For me, selecting my own reply on the list, and then clicking on Reply, gives
me "users@spamassassin.apache.org"

> I need to hit Reply to All to get it on the list.

In my opinion, Reply-to-all on a mailing list is usually a bad idea.

Anyone who has sent a message to the list is subscribed to the list, so if you
reply to the list (only), they will see your reply. They do not need their
own copy.

For example, see my sig below (and on every other posting I have made to this
this and every other list) "Please reply to the list, and please don't CC me"

> Is that what has been happening with mine, and why does it happen with
> replies to your posts?

I don't know, but take a look at headers on my reply:
https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/spamassassin-
users/202112.mbox/raw/<202112162128.27630.Antony.Stone@spamassassin.open.source.it>

Nowhere there does it say "reply to my personal address", therefore I would
expect your mail client simply to reply to the list.

However, this is not answering the original point, which is that your mail
client *is* inserting a Reply-To header, therefore some people reply to you
alone and not to the list:

https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/spamassassin-
users/202112.mbox/raw/<202112170116100961.03849919@nx33.ace.net.au>

> Is this post better?

No, because it was sent both to the list and to me personally. Quite
redundant.


I can only suggest that this is one of the many ways in which MS Outlook is a
disappointing mail client.

I cannot help you to fix that, beause I have never used it.


Antony.

--
"I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting. But it does
mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously."

- Douglas Adams

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.

>On Thursday 16 December 2021 at 21:43:04, Peter wrote:
>> Thanks, I hadn't thought about that.
>>
>> I am curious though, I normall hit Reply rather than Reply to All, and with
>> your email Reply just uses your own address,

that's because Anthony doesn't set Reply-To: and neither does this mailing
list (changing reply-to often breaks DKIM signatures).

You (Peter) on the other side set Reply-To: to your own address which is
rarely useful if it's the same as From:

and in this case can even cause troubles. You should only use it for list
mail if you explicitly want replies back to you, not to the list

On 16.12.21 22:14, Antony Stone wrote:
>That, I find strange.
>
>For me, selecting my own reply on the list, and then clicking on Reply, gives
>me "users@spamassassin.apache.org"

apparently your mail klient (kmail) either does know its own address and
doesn't try to send replies to yourself, or explicitly uses List-Reply by
default for mail from mailing lists.

looks like Peter used discontinued Courier:
https://www.rosecitysoftware.com/courier/

>> I need to hit Reply to All to get it on the list.
>
>In my opinion, Reply-to-all on a mailing list is usually a bad idea.

unfortunately, not many mail clients support mailing lists.
Thunderbird does, mutt does, kmail does.

>I can only suggest that this is one of the many ways in which MS Outlook is a
>disappointing mail client.

I agree much, although this it not Peter's mail client.


just my 1 PHP (1 phipiline peso = $.02)
--
Matus UHLAR - fantomas, uhlar@fantomas.sk ; http://www.fantomas.sk/
Warning: I wish NOT to receive e-mail advertising to this address.
Varovanie: na tuto adresu chcem NEDOSTAVAT akukolvek reklamnu postu.
It's now safe to throw off your computer.

Today I got my life back.

Decided to ditch TXrep and go back to AWL. It might not be as clever,
but at least it works!

The inability to do working manual changes to scores meant wasting a lot of
time having to add addresses to my whitelist file even for addresses that
might not ever send another email in future.

Relief...


*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 17/12/2021 at 1:16 AM Peter wrote:

>I just want the command to work as advertised. It worked for AWL on my
>older system, made life a lot easier.
>
>
>*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
>
>On 16/12/2021 at 9:36 AM Greg Troxel wrote:
>
>>"Peter" <email@ace.net.au> writes:
>>
>>> New to TXrep, the manual says the add-addr-to-whitelist command should
>>add
>>> -100, but for me it doesn't do anything - nor does
>add-addr-to-blacklist.
>>>
>>> It comes back with SpamAssassin TxRep: 1 with either the white or
>>> blacklist.
>>>
>>> While the server is new, I want to be able to adjust a senders score,
>but
>>> don't want to make new rules which will be there forever.
>>>
>>> Am I missing something?
>>
>>I have also struggled with understanding what's going on, and tried to
>>run some scripts to look at the database.
>>
>>If what you want is to preload a good reputation that will then be
>>subject to adjustment, you probably want to write a program to adjust
>>the database and say put in fake data that the average score is -5 over
>>10 messages, and then let it go.
>>
>>Beware though that txrep is per sender, per sender/addr pair, and other
>>things (I forget the details), and so you may need to put in more fake
>>data than you are willing to put up with.
>>
>>If you are putting in -100 and it stays, I don't see why that should be
>>about txrep rather than just fixed huge scores for addresses.
>>
>>I think what SA needs is a welcomelist command that takes a score, or
>>maybe just a welcomelist_mild that gives -5. I'm uncomfortable putting
>>tons of addresses in welcomelist without dkim or rcvd, but -5 might be
>>ok, enough to keep ham out of my purgatory folders (>1 < 5) while also
>>keeping any forged spam out of inbox (<1).

On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 12:18:15AM +1030, Peter wrote:
> Today I got my life back.
>
> Decided to ditch TXrep and go back to AWL. It might not be as clever,
> but at least it works!
>
> The inability to do working manual changes to scores meant wasting a lot of
> time having to add addresses to my whitelist file even for addresses that
> might not ever send another email in future.
>
> Relief...

Probably a good choice, as TxRep is currently quite broken in several
regards, see for example:

https://bz.apache.org/SpamAssassin/show_bug.cgi?id=7943

and a list of tickets in:
https://bz.apache.org/SpamAssassin/show_bug.cgi?id=7173

--
Opinions above are GNU-copylefted.