Mailing List Archive

On 21 Jul 2020, at 14:06, Grant Taylor wrote:

> On 7/21/20 11:56 AM, Bill Cole wrote:
>> All answers: "NO!" In those cases, "black" and "white" all reference
>> actual colors of physical things, not a metaphorical value judgment.
>
> Hum. Your "value judgement" statement is interesting.
>
> The original meaning of blacklist that I found seems to be exactly
> that, a value judgement on if it was okay / safe to do business with
> people / businesses or not. Specifically if someone (independent of
> race) was unsafe to do business with, they were added to the
> blacklist.

Precisely.

That usage is problematic because in many (most? all?) Anglophone
societies, "Black" is an ethno-racial label. In some cases (UK, US,
probably more) it is accepted and internalized as an identity by those
thus labeled. This creates a naming collision with the usage of "black"
and "white" as metaphorical labels for value judgments.

The degree of annoyance caused by that collision of connotations varies
widely.

--
Bill Cole
bill@scconsult.com or billcole@apache.org
(AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses)
Not For Hire (currently)

Am 21.07.20 um 21:07 schrieb Bill Cole:
> On 21 Jul 2020, at 14:06, Grant Taylor wrote:
>
>> On 7/21/20 11:56 AM, Bill Cole wrote:
>>> All answers: "NO!" In those cases, "black" and "white" all reference
>>> actual colors of physical things, not a metaphorical value judgment.
>>
>> Hum.  Your "value judgement" statement is interesting.
>>
>> The original meaning of blacklist that I found seems to be exactly
>> that, a value judgement on if it was okay / safe to do business with
>> people / businesses or not.  Specifically if someone (independent of
>> race) was unsafe to do business with, they were added to the blacklist.
>
> Precisely.
>
> That usage is problematic because in many (most? all?) Anglophone
> societies, "Black" is an ethno-racial label. In some cases (UK, US,
> probably more) it is accepted and internalized as an identity by those
> thus labeled. This creates a naming collision with the usage of "black"
> and "white" as metaphorical labels for value judgments.
>
> The degree of annoyance caused by that collision of connotations varies
> widely.
>

Hi @ll, can we focus on tec problems again ?



--
[*] sys4 AG

http://sys4.de, +49 (89) 30 90 46 64
Schleißheimer Straße 26/MG, 80333 München

Sitz der Gesellschaft: München, Amtsgericht München: HRB 199263
Vorstand: Patrick Ben Koetter, Marc Schiffbauer
Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Florian Kirstein

> On Jul 21, 2020, at 3:16 PM, Robert Schetterer <rs@sys4.de> wrote:
>
> Am 21.07.20 um 21:07 schrieb Bill Cole:
>> On 21 Jul 2020, at 14:06, Grant Taylor wrote:
>>> On 7/21/20 11:56 AM, Bill Cole wrote:
>>>> All answers: "NO!" In those cases, "black" and "white" all reference actual colors of physical things, not a metaphorical value judgment.
>>>
>>> Hum. Your "value judgement" statement is interesting.
>>>
>>> The original meaning of blacklist that I found seems to be exactly that, a value judgement on if it was okay / safe to do business with people / businesses or not. Specifically if someone (independent of race) was unsafe to do business with, they were added to the blacklist.
>> Precisely.
>> That usage is problematic because in many (most? all?) Anglophone societies, "Black" is an ethno-racial label. In some cases (UK, US, probably more) it is accepted and internalized as an identity by those thus labeled. This creates a naming collision with the usage of "black" and "white" as metaphorical labels for value judgments.
>> The degree of annoyance caused by that collision of connotations varies widely.
>
> Hi @ll, can we focus on tec problems again ?

The thread is marked “OT” unlike the outbursts from the crew of warriors against “cultural marxism” that are crapping on every thread…

>
>
>
> --
> [*] sys4 AG
>
> http://sys4.de, +49 (89) 30 90 46 64
> Schleißheimer Straße 26/MG, 80333 München
>
> Sitz der Gesellschaft: München, Amtsgericht München: HRB 199263
> Vorstand: Patrick Ben Koetter, Marc Schiffbauer
> Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Florian Kirstein