Mailing List Archive

On Tue, 19 May 2020 07:43:14 -0400
"Rick Cooper" <rcooper@dwford.com> wrote:

> I occasionally get emails warning me of bounced mail, this one
> doesn't go through we will send a probe, yada, yada.
>
> They say they include the bounce message but they always look like
> this: --- Enclosed is a copy of the bounce message I received.
>
> Return-Path: <>
> Received: (qmail 21198 invoked for bounce); 8 May 2020 19:58:49 -0000
> Date: 8 May 2020 19:58:49 -0000
> From: MAILER-DAEMON@apache.org
> To: users-return-122007-@spamassassin.apache.org
> Subject: failure notice
>
> Which is useless. I also cannot find where the list was every denied
> in the logs.
> This time I went ahead and the email that would retrieve the messages
> that had bounced and I have every single one of them already... Every
> singled one.
>
> What is up with that?

I have seen this from time to time on several mailing lists.

Normally, it is caused by your mailserver rejecting a malformed mail
that has been sent to the list - the list software has accepted it and
not corrected its "non-compliance" - hence your mailserver bounces it.

If you do ever find out about the mail in question, it is usually (*)
spam.

Unfortunately:

(a) certain mailing list software is set up so that it can send on
malformed mail it could in theory reject or put right. I am of the
opinion this is wrong.
(b) certain mailservers (including mine, of my own volition) are
configured to reject such malformed mail on the grounds that it is
usually spam. I am of the opinion this is right.
(c) the mailing list software treats this as a bounce, without treating
the reason as special and letting it simply pass. I am of the
opinion this is wrong.

(*) usually = at least 995 per mil.

I am happy to read anyone else's opinions on the three points above, of
course.

--
Phil Reynolds
mail: phil-spamassassin@tinsleyviaduct.com

On Wed, 20 May 2020 13:09:14 +0100
Phil Reynolds wrote:

> On Tue, 19 May 2020 07:43:14 -0400
> "Rick Cooper" <rcooper@dwford.com> wrote:

> > This time I went ahead and the email that would retrieve the
> > messages that had bounced and I have every single one of them
> > already... Every singled one.
> >
> > What is up with that?
>
> I have seen this from time to time on several mailing lists.
>
> Normally, it is caused by your mailserver rejecting a malformed mail
> that has been sent to the list

The OP said that were received.

I've seen this on the getmail list and, like the OP, when I requested
they be resent I got duplicates.

Phil Reynolds wrote:
> On Tue, 19 May 2020 07:43:14 -0400
> "Rick Cooper" <rcooper@dwford.com> wrote:
>
>> I occasionally get emails warning me of bounced mail, this one
>> doesn't go through we will send a probe, yada, yada.
>>
>> They say they include the bounce message but they always look like
>> this: --- Enclosed is a copy of the bounce message I received.
>>
>> Return-Path: <>
>> Received: (qmail 21198 invoked for bounce); 8 May 2020 19:58:49 -0000
>> Date: 8 May 2020 19:58:49 -0000
>> From: MAILER-DAEMON@apache.org
>> To: users-return-122007-@spamassassin.apache.org
>> Subject: failure notice
>>
>> Which is useless. I also cannot find where the list was every denied
>> in the logs. This time I went ahead and the email that would
>> retrieve the messages that had bounced and I have every single one
>> of them already... Every singled one.
>>
>> What is up with that?
>
> I have seen this from time to time on several mailing lists.
>
> Normally, it is caused by your mailserver rejecting a malformed mail
> that has been sent to the list - the list software has accepted it and
> not corrected its "non-compliance" - hence your mailserver bounces it.

No I would see the reject in the mail logs, and when I requested the bounced
messages I had already received all of them. So that was why I wondered why
the list server was saying they bounced without a denial and after having
had them delivered to my box.

>
> If you do ever find out about the mail in question, it is usually (*)
> spam.
>
> Unfortunately:
>
> (a) certain mailing list software is set up so that it can send on
> malformed mail it could in theory reject or put right. I am of the
> opinion this is wrong.
> (b) certain mailservers (including mine, of my own volition) are
> configured to reject such malformed mail on the grounds that it is
> usually spam. I am of the opinion this is right.
> (c) the mailing list software treats this as a bounce, without
> treating the reason as special and letting it simply pass. I am
> of the opinion this is wrong.
>
> (*) usually = at least 995 per mil.
>
> I am happy to read anyone else's opinions on the three points above,
> of course.

If you can send me more information off-list, I will ask Infra to look into
this.
--
Kevin A. McGrail
Member, Apache Software Foundation
Chair Emeritus Apache SpamAssassin Project
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmcgrail - 703.798.0171


On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 10:41 AM Rick Cooper <rcooper@dwford.com> wrote:

> Phil Reynolds wrote:
> > On Tue, 19 May 2020 07:43:14 -0400
> > "Rick Cooper" <rcooper@dwford.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I occasionally get emails warning me of bounced mail, this one
> >> doesn't go through we will send a probe, yada, yada.
> >>
> >> They say they include the bounce message but they always look like
> >> this: --- Enclosed is a copy of the bounce message I received.
> >>
> >> Return-Path: <>
> >> Received: (qmail 21198 invoked for bounce); 8 May 2020 19:58:49 -0000
> >> Date: 8 May 2020 19:58:49 -0000
> >> From: MAILER-DAEMON@apache.org
> >> To: users-return-122007-@spamassassin.apache.org
> >> Subject: failure notice
> >>
> >> Which is useless. I also cannot find where the list was every denied
> >> in the logs. This time I went ahead and the email that would
> >> retrieve the messages that had bounced and I have every single one
> >> of them already... Every singled one.
> >>
> >> What is up with that?
> >
> > I have seen this from time to time on several mailing lists.
> >
> > Normally, it is caused by your mailserver rejecting a malformed mail
> > that has been sent to the list - the list software has accepted it and
> > not corrected its "non-compliance" - hence your mailserver bounces it.
>
> No I would see the reject in the mail logs, and when I requested the
> bounced
> messages I had already received all of them. So that was why I wondered why
> the list server was saying they bounced without a denial and after having
> had them delivered to my box.
>
> >
> > If you do ever find out about the mail in question, it is usually (*)
> > spam.
> >
> > Unfortunately:
> >
> > (a) certain mailing list software is set up so that it can send on
> > malformed mail it could in theory reject or put right. I am of the
> > opinion this is wrong.
> > (b) certain mailservers (including mine, of my own volition) are
> > configured to reject such malformed mail on the grounds that it is
> > usually spam. I am of the opinion this is right.
> > (c) the mailing list software treats this as a bounce, without
> > treating the reason as special and letting it simply pass. I am
> > of the opinion this is wrong.
> >
> > (*) usually = at least 995 per mil.
> >
> > I am happy to read anyone else's opinions on the three points above,
> > of course.
>
>