Mailing List Archive

[Quagga-dev] Quagga Goals
This message is intended to start a thread that can reach a
consensus regarding the short-term and long-term goals of the
guagga project.

SHORT-TERM GOALS

1. INITIAL RELEASE

Perhaps the most important short-term goal is to field a "released"
version based on zebra-pj. This should have the following attributes:

a. Minimum changes from zebra-pj. Perhaps only the name of the
executable and whatever else is absolutely necessary.

Rationale - widest possible ussage and feedback base.

b. Should work with existing zebra file structure and configuration
files without changes.

Rationale - widest possible usage and feedback base.

c. Third party daemons like IS-IS should not require any changes.

Rationale - widest possible usage and feedback base.

d. Should be available as tarball, RPM, and deb.

Rationale - easier to install than present CVS.

e. Should have gone through a PRE or RC cycle first which implies
that we first have a frozen release candidate and at least a minimum
feedback cycle.

f. Release notes for each deamon that capture current knowledge
of what works and what doesn't on various platforms.

Rationale - must meet the user expectations of a stable package that
works for most application out of the box without the need to
re-compile sources (at least for Linux).

g. 1.0.x version will become the stable tree. Next major stable
version can be planned to be 1.2.X.

Rationale - odd/even Linux style stable and development trees have
proven to work.

2. INITIAL DOCUMENTATION RELEASE

Minimal clean up of existing docs including numerous grammatical
errors.

Rationale - Clean English base version will facilitate translation to
other languages.

3. ESTABLISH ONGOING PROJECT PROCESS AND STRUCTURE

a. Separate sub-projects for Zebra, BGP, OSPF, RIP, etc.

b. Test Methodology.

Rationale - There are several sub communities of users. Some have
very simple needs. Some have a focus on OSPF. Some have a focus
on BGP. Separating by protocol will allow the project to scale
around each protocol. Decisions, maintenance, etc. revolving
around protocol allow them to separately evole with minimal
impact on the other sub projects. All of course may impact the
Zebra core.

LONG-TERM GOALS

TBD

-------------------------
I'm just offering the above to start off the discussion. I think
it is crucial to understand what we're doing before we start
doing it. I'd prefer to see the free for all take place in the
list discussion and not in the code. While it will take a few
days to sort this out, we will surely see the payback when the
actual work gets underway.

There appears to be much latent interest and many potential
contributors both for actual work on the code and documentation
base and for testing. If we want quagga to succeed we need to make
it appealing to potential contributers while at the same time
defending the stability of the suite.

Cheers

Wally
[Quagga-dev] Quagga Goals [ In reply to ]
Hello,

As a part of the small, but yet existent ISISd team, I would like to use this
chance of forking to integrate the ISIS daemon into the Quagga project.

This will eliminate goal 1.c. ;)

Tell me how you want me to proceed.

Ofer,
ISISd.
Re: [Quagga-dev] Quagga Goals [ In reply to ]
On Tue, 5 Aug 2003, Ofer wrote:

> Hello,
>
> As a part of the small, but yet existent ISISd team, I would like to use this
> chance of forking to integrate the ISIS daemon into the Quagga project.
>
> This will eliminate goal 1.c. ;)
>
> Tell me how you want me to proceed.
>
> Ofer,
> ISISd.

No more calls please, we have a WINNER! This is absolutely
OUTSTANDING! Paul can get all of the information to you. Welcome
aboard! We truely appreciate the work that you guys are doing. I
personally played with it a year or so ago and was wondering when it would
enter the "fold." I think I know the reason now though.

Anyway, welcome and THANKS!


--
John Fraizer | High-Security Datacenter Services |
President | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
EnterZone, Inc | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Network Consulting Services |
Re: [Quagga-dev] Quagga Goals [ In reply to ]
Ofer wrote:
> Hello,
>
> As a part of the small, but yet existent ISISd team, I would like
> to use this chance of forking to integrate the ISIS daemon into the
> Quagga project.
>
> This will eliminate goal 1.c. ;)
>
> Tell me how you want me to proceed.

Current situation isn't good IMHO. There should be way to checkout
whole working quagga with isisd, not patch as it is now in
sourceforge.

I think that it's time to quagga-isis. Isisd is not ready for any
production use. Isisd can't be started from configuration file he
writes, isisd hasn't any redistribution code etc. (just examples for
case if you have doupts ;). So, it isn't best idea to integrate it
into stable quagga.

And yes, I volunteer to do merging changes from quagga to quagga-isis
:).

--
Hasso Tepper
Elion Enterprises Ltd.
WAN administrator
Re: [Quagga-dev] Quagga Goals [ In reply to ]
On Tue, 5 Aug 2003, Hasso Tepper wrote:

> Ofer wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > As a part of the small, but yet existent ISISd team, I would like
> > to use this chance of forking to integrate the ISIS daemon into the
> > Quagga project.
> >
> > This will eliminate goal 1.c. ;)
> >
> > Tell me how you want me to proceed.
>
> Current situation isn't good IMHO. There should be way to checkout
> whole working quagga with isisd, not patch as it is now in
> sourceforge.
>
> I think that it's time to quagga-isis. Isisd is not ready for any
> production use. Isisd can't be started from configuration file he
> writes, isisd hasn't any redistribution code etc. (just examples for
> case if you have doupts ;). So, it isn't best idea to integrate it
> into stable quagga.
>
> And yes, I volunteer to do merging changes from quagga to quagga-isis
> :).
>
>

I whole-heartedly disagree. While it is not ready for use, I don't think
we need multiple trees of Quagga. It can be noted that ISISd is not ready
for use but, I think it needs to be in the same tree as Quagga.


--
John Fraizer | High-Security Datacenter Services |
President | Dedicated circuits 64k - 155M OC3 |
EnterZone, Inc | Virtual, Dedicated, Colocation |
http://www.enterzone.net/ | Network Consulting Services |
Re: [Quagga-dev] Quagga Goals [ In reply to ]
> -----Original Message-----
> From: quagga-dev-bounces@lists.quagga.net
> [mailto:quagga-dev-bounces@lists.quagga.net] On Behalf Of John Fraizer
> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 1:54 AM
<snip>
> > > Tell me how you want me to proceed.
> >
> > Current situation isn't good IMHO. There should be way to checkout
> > whole working quagga with isisd, not patch as it is now in
> > sourceforge.
> >
> > I think that it's time to quagga-isis. Isisd is not ready for any
> > production use. Isisd can't be started from configuration file he
> > writes, isisd hasn't any redistribution code etc. (just
> examples for
> > case if you have doupts ;). So, it isn't best idea to integrate it
> > into stable quagga.
> >
> > And yes, I volunteer to do merging changes from quagga to
> quagga-isis
> > :).
> >
> >
>
> I whole-heartedly disagree. While it is not ready for use, I
> don't think
> we need multiple trees of Quagga. It can be noted that ISISd
> is not ready
> for use but, I think it needs to be in the same tree as Quagga.
>
I think Hasso's point is also that ISISd needs to be in the tree,
not a patch.

The issue is that with some key missing components it is not quite
ready to be in the stable tree. This is one reason why separate
stable and production trees are needed.

IMHO the work on the current tree should be limited, as far as
practical, to consolidating the known patches that can be reasonably
added without risking stability. This will result in a release
candidate for quagga-1.0 that can undergo the testing required to
confirm it as a stable release. The developmenet tree derived at
an approprimately timed point is then the place to add ISISd to the
quagga tree for the next version. The people working on the ISISd
changes can then just update the development tree, instead of
trying to maintain multiple complicated patches.

I don't think it will take too long to reach the point where there
can be both stable and development trees. But its a bit premature.
There should be at least a bit of a plan for what will be the
development tree 1.1 on the way to a 1.2. It does seems that folding
in the ISISd is a good candidate.

Perhaps we should first try to identify all of the requirements needed
by the ISISd daemon and try to guage the amount of work involved to
meet them and the resources potentially available to do it. If these
are compatible with the timing for the 1.2 release, then it makes
sense to add ISISd to the development tree. It may be that by the
time all the requirements and resources are identified, the
quagga tree may be ready for a development fork.

Cheers

Wally
Re: [Quagga-dev] Quagga Goals [ In reply to ]
Hasso Tepper wrote:
> Ofer wrote:
>
>>Hello,
>>
>>As a part of the small, but yet existent ISISd team, I would like
>>to use this chance of forking to integrate the ISIS daemon into the
>>Quagga project.
>>
>>This will eliminate goal 1.c. ;)
>>
>>Tell me how you want me to proceed.
>
>
> Current situation isn't good IMHO. There should be way to checkout
> whole working quagga with isisd, not patch as it is now in
> sourceforge.

Hi,

I as well vote for integration into the experimental/unstable tree. It
is correct that isisd is far from being stable and complete, but it
would be one major step towards a unified architecture. It is a matter
of preference of course, however, I do think IS-IS has a lot of
advantages over the complicated LSA mess of OSPF *running-for-cover*
:-). We have to move away from the unfortunate patch idea which holds
back development. After
all, it is easy to exlude it from the default compile options until it
is reasonably stable.

By the way: How about grouping together highly experimental features
such as with the experimental flag in the Linux kernel configuration
with autoconfig?

Regards,
Gernot

--
Dipl.-Ing. Gernot W. Schmied, MS Network Architecture & Operations
Senior Strategist Research Group
mailto:gernot.schmied@nanorg.org http://www.nanorg.org
PGP Fingerprint: 5D70 5690 47DA 9A21 D07E B9EE C764 C9B7 9B64 B27E
Re: [Quagga-dev] Quagga Goals [ In reply to ]
Wally Ritchie wrote:
> I think Hasso's point is also that ISISd needs to be in the tree,
> not a patch.

Yes.

--
Hasso Tepper
Elion Enterprises Ltd.
WAN administrator
Re: [Quagga-dev] Quagga Goals [ In reply to ]
On Thu, 7 Aug 2003, Hasso Tepper wrote:

> Wally Ritchie wrote:
> > I think Hasso's point is also that ISISd needs to be in the tree,
> > not a patch.
>
> Yes.


Agree, but I would also like to see some development of the isisd,
which seems to have stopped. Currently it is not working together
with cisco.


>
>

--

Regards

/Fredrik

-------------------------------------------------------
KTHNOC, KTH, S-100 44 Stockholm, Sweden +46 8 790 65 17
-------------------------------------------------------
Re: [Quagga-dev] Quagga Goals [ In reply to ]
Fredrik Widell wrote:
> On Thu, 7 Aug 2003, Hasso Tepper wrote:
>
>

> Agree, but I would also like to see some development of the isisd,
> which seems to have stopped. Currently it is not working together
> with cisco.

Besides, the daemon crashes under Linux. Nice work but still a long way
to go.

Gernot

--
Dipl.-Ing. Gernot W. Schmied, MS Network Architecture & Operations
Senior Strategist Research Group
mailto:gernot.schmied@nanorg.org http://www.nanorg.org
PGP Fingerprint: 5D70 5690 47DA 9A21 D07E B9EE C764 C9B7 9B64 B27E