Mailing List Archive

Cisco ME3600 migration to something with more 10 gig ports
Hi everyone,



I'm needing more 10 gig ports in my CO's for purposes of upgrading my FTTH
OLT shelves with 10 gig. I currently use Cisco ME3600's and do a lot of
core ospf, and MP-iBGP over that for MPLS L2VPN's (eline, elan, etree) and
L3VPN's (VPNv4 and testing VPNv6)



I'm thinking about Cisco ASR920's for (4) 10 gig ports and several (1) gig
ports. Would this be good ?



What are some comparable Juniper products that would fit here ? Is Juniper
better in that area ?



Aaron





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Re: Cisco ME3600 migration to something with more 10 gig ports [ In reply to ]
Hi,

Look at newly released PTX1000 from Juniper. It comes with latest J custom
silicon and unlike the first version it comes also with full blow routing.

PTX1000
<https://www.juniper.net/us/en/products-services/routing/ptx-series/ptx1000/>

For cheaper option you can check ACX5000.

ACX5000
<https://www.juniper.net/us/en/products-services/routing/acx-series/acx5000/>

Ivan,

On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 3:54 PM, Aaron <aaron1@gvtc.com> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
>
>
> I'm needing more 10 gig ports in my CO's for purposes of upgrading my FTTH
> OLT shelves with 10 gig. I currently use Cisco ME3600's and do a lot of
> core ospf, and MP-iBGP over that for MPLS L2VPN's (eline, elan, etree) and
> L3VPN's (VPNv4 and testing VPNv6)
>
>
>
> I'm thinking about Cisco ASR920's for (4) 10 gig ports and several (1) gig
> ports. Would this be good ?
>
>
>
> What are some comparable Juniper products that would fit here ? Is Juniper
> better in that area ?
>
>
>
> Aaron
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> juniper-nsp mailing list juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net
> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/juniper-nsp
>



--
Best Regards!

Ivan Ivanov
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Re: Cisco ME3600 migration to something with more 10 gig ports [ In reply to ]
On 13/Jul/15 17:40, Ivan Ivanov wrote:

>
> PTX1000
> <https://www.juniper.net/us/en/products-services/routing/ptx-series/ptx1000/>

Looks good, but won't hit the ME3600X/ASR920 price-point.

>
> For cheaper option you can check ACX5000.
>
> ACX5000
> <https://www.juniper.net/us/en/products-services/routing/acx-series/acx5000/>

Broadcom chipset, as I mentioned to the OP on c-nsp. Limits your options.

Mark.

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Re: Cisco ME3600 migration to something with more 10 gig ports [ In reply to ]
Take a look at the EX4550. Just pay attention on the number of routes it
supports and see if that suits you. It's not a core router, but neither is
the ME3600.
On Jul 13, 2015 11:54 AM, "Aaron" <aaron1@gvtc.com> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
>
>
> I'm needing more 10 gig ports in my CO's for purposes of upgrading my FTTH
> OLT shelves with 10 gig. I currently use Cisco ME3600's and do a lot of
> core ospf, and MP-iBGP over that for MPLS L2VPN's (eline, elan, etree) and
> L3VPN's (VPNv4 and testing VPNv6)
>
>
>
> I'm thinking about Cisco ASR920's for (4) 10 gig ports and several (1) gig
> ports. Would this be good ?
>
>
>
> What are some comparable Juniper products that would fit here ? Is Juniper
> better in that area ?
>
>
>
> Aaron
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> juniper-nsp mailing list juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net
> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/juniper-nsp
>
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Re: Cisco ME3600 migration to something with more 10 gig ports [ In reply to ]
On 14/Jul/15 14:12, Luis Balbinot wrote:
> Take a look at the EX4550. Just pay attention on the number of routes it
> supports and see if that suits you. It's not a core router, but neither is
> the ME3600.

OP is looking for a 1U switch that is really a router with full IP/MPLS
capabilities, but has reasonably dense 10Gbps port assets.

The EX4550 falls very short of that re: full IP/MPLS capabilities.

Mark.
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Re: Cisco ME3600 migration to something with more 10 gigports [ In reply to ]
Yeah the PTX1K is a 2.88 Tbps box with 28 100G ports, not exactly comparable to a ACX or ASR920 in ports or pricing. :) Cisco doesn't really have anything comparable to it at the moment. The ACX or MX80 is what Juniper has that competes with the ASR920.

Phil

-----Original Message-----
From: "Mark Tinka" <mark.tinka@seacom.mu>
Sent: ‎7/‎14/‎2015 3:26 AM
To: "Ivan Ivanov" <ivanov.ivan@gmail.com>; "Aaron" <aaron1@gvtc.com>
Cc: "Juniper List" <juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net>
Subject: Re: [j-nsp] Cisco ME3600 migration to something with more 10 gigports



On 13/Jul/15 17:40, Ivan Ivanov wrote:

>
> PTX1000
> <https://www.juniper.net/us/en/products-services/routing/ptx-series/ptx1000/>

Looks good, but won't hit the ME3600X/ASR920 price-point.

>
> For cheaper option you can check ACX5000.
>
> ACX5000
> <https://www.juniper.net/us/en/products-services/routing/acx-series/acx5000/>

Broadcom chipset, as I mentioned to the OP on c-nsp. Limits your options.

Mark.

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Re: Cisco ME3600 migration to something with more 10 gigports [ In reply to ]
On 14/Jul/15 14:24, Phil Bedard wrote:
> Yeah the PTX1K is a 2.88 Tbps box with 28 100G ports, not exactly
> comparable to a ACX or ASR920 in ports or pricing. :) Cisco doesn't
> really have anything comparable to it at the moment. The ACX or MX80
> is what Juniper has that competes with the ASR920.

Except the MX80 is too bit and too pricey, even with the license-based
variants.

The ACX5000 was a reasonable attempt, but that Broadcom chipset is a
liability. As always, Juniper continue to drop the ball on this, and let
all that Metro-E business go to Cisco, Brocade and others. When will
they learn? I'm done beating that horse...

Mark.
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Re: Cisco ME3600 migration to something with more 10 gig ports [ In reply to ]
On 14/07/15 13:18, Mark Tinka wrote:
>
>
> On 14/Jul/15 14:12, Luis Balbinot wrote:
>> Take a look at the EX4550. Just pay attention on the number of routes it
>> supports and see if that suits you. It's not a core router, but neither is
>> the ME3600.
>
> OP is looking for a 1U switch that is really a router with full IP/MPLS
> capabilities, but has reasonably dense 10Gbps port assets.
>
> The EX4550 falls very short of that re: full IP/MPLS capabilities.

QFX 5100?

Juniper cited that to us as a collapsed MPLS L3VPN P/PE and claim pretty
good features. Not tried one yet.
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Re: Cisco ME3600 migration to something with more 10 gig ports [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 2:54 PM, Phil Mayers <p.mayers@imperial.ac.uk> wrote:
> QFX 5100?

My experience with that platform and 14.1 has been very unpleasant.
13.2 does not support MPLS PE.


> Juniper cited that to us as a collapsed MPLS L3VPN P/PE and claim pretty
> good features. Not tried one yet.

Interesting; not for L2VPN?


Richard
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Re: Cisco ME3600 migration to something with more 10 gig ports [ In reply to ]
On 14/07/15 14:36, Richard Hartmann wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 2:54 PM, Phil Mayers <p.mayers@imperial.ac.uk> wrote:
>> QFX 5100?
>
> My experience with that platform and 14.1 has been very unpleasant.
> 13.2 does not support MPLS PE.

Yikes. That's good (well, bad, but you know what I mean) to be aware of.

>
>
>> Juniper cited that to us as a collapsed MPLS L3VPN P/PE and claim pretty
>> good features. Not tried one yet.
>
> Interesting; not for L2VPN?

L3VPN was our use-case; it may or may not do L2VPN, we don't have much
use for it locally.

Cheers,
Phil
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Re: Cisco ME3600 migration to something with more 10 gig ports [ In reply to ]
On 14/Jul/15 14:54, Phil Mayers wrote:
>
>
> QFX 5100?
>
> Juniper cited that to us as a collapsed MPLS L3VPN P/PE and claim
> pretty good features. Not tried one yet.

Isn't that the seed that fertilized the (ACX5000) egg?

Mark.
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Re: Cisco ME3600 migration to something with more 10 gigports [ In reply to ]
Thanks everyone for your input.



Does the mx80 support all the mpls L3vpn and L2vpn things I mentioned ?



Aaron







From: Mark Tinka [mailto:mark.tinka@seacom.mu]
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 7:41 AM
To: Phil Bedard; Ivan Ivanov; Aaron
Cc: Juniper List
Subject: Re: [j-nsp] Cisco ME3600 migration to something with more 10 gigports





On 14/Jul/15 14:24, Phil Bedard wrote:

Yeah the PTX1K is a 2.88 Tbps box with 28 100G ports, not exactly comparable to a ACX or ASR920 in ports or pricing. :) Cisco doesn't really have anything comparable to it at the moment. The ACX or MX80 is what Juniper has that competes with the ASR920.


Except the MX80 is too bit and too pricey, even with the license-based variants.

The ACX5000 was a reasonable attempt, but that Broadcom chipset is a liability. As always, Juniper continue to drop the ball on this, and let all that Metro-E business go to Cisco, Brocade and others. When will they learn? I'm done beating that horse...

Mark.

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Re: Cisco ME3600 migration to something with more 10 gigports [ In reply to ]
On 14/Jul/15 17:13, Aaron wrote:
>
> Thanks everyone for your input.
>
>
>
> Does the mx80 support all the mpls L3vpn and L2vpn things I mentioned ?
>

It does.

But don't expect ME3600X/ASR920 pricing or form-factor.

Mark.
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Re: Cisco ME3600 migration to something with more 10 gigports [ In reply to ]
On 14 July 2015 at 16:13, Aaron <aaron1@gvtc.com> wrote:
> Thanks everyone for your input.
>
>
>
> Does the mx80 support all the mpls L3vpn and L2vpn things I mentioned ?


It does do all this:

> I'm needing more 10 gig ports in my CO's for purposes of upgrading my FTTH
> OLT shelves with 10 gig. I currently use Cisco ME3600's and do a lot of
> core ospf, and MP-iBGP over that for MPLS L2VPN's (eline, elan, etree) and
> L3VPN's (VPNv4 and testing VPNv6)

However, If you're roughly after ME3600x but with say 6x10G then you
will need to chuck in a 20x1G MIC and 2x10G MIC. That is likely going
to me a lot more that you budgeted for. It's also 2 RU.

Cheers,
James.
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Re: Cisco ME3600 migration to something with more 10 gig ports [ In reply to ]
Le 14/07/15 15:45, Phil Mayers a écrit :

>
> L3VPN was our use-case; it may or may not do L2VPN, we don't have much
> use for it locally.
>

If l3vpn is your case you can consider ex4550 (with caution).
I use them as PE with some kind of succes. But.. there is some
limitations you should be aware of :

- the cpu is slow, even the snmp process can kill the control plane if
there is too much polling
- mpls : l2circuit is working, but not l2vpn, nor vpls. l3vpn is working
but the number of routing instance is limited (arround 40 if I remember
correctly. And the big one : no local leaking between routing instance.
Very annoying.
- snmp counter on sub interface (but there are workarround)

Regards,

--
Raphael Mazelier
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Re: Cisco ME3600 migration to something with more 10 gig ports [ In reply to ]
On 14/Jul/15 19:44, Raphael Mazelier wrote:
>
>
> If l3vpn is your case you can consider ex4550 (with caution).
> I use them as PE with some kind of succes. But.. there is some
> limitations you should be aware of :
>
> - the cpu is slow, even the snmp process can kill the control plane if
> there is too much polling
> - mpls : l2circuit is working, but not l2vpn, nor vpls. l3vpn is
> working but the number of routing instance is limited (arround 40 if I
> remember correctly. And the big one : no local leaking between routing
> instance. Very annoying.
> - snmp counter on sub interface (but there are workarround)

You're a brave man :-).

Mark.
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Re: Cisco ME3600 migration to something with more 10 gig ports [ In reply to ]
What does the price point of the ME3600X/ASR920 platform look like? Looks
like for at least the ASR920 and 10G SPF+ ports you have the buy the
chassis and then upgrade licenses?

Considering a Juniper GFX5100 is ~$11k brand new does it make any sense to
go with something like an ASR920, or does the ASR have many more features
than the Juniper QFX5100? The 5100 has a ton of port built in, but is more
of a switch than router.

On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 2:26 AM, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka@seacom.mu> wrote:

>
>
> On 13/Jul/15 17:40, Ivan Ivanov wrote:
>
> >
> > PTX1000
> > <
> https://www.juniper.net/us/en/products-services/routing/ptx-series/ptx1000/
> >
>
> Looks good, but won't hit the ME3600X/ASR920 price-point.
>
> >
> > For cheaper option you can check ACX5000.
> >
> > ACX5000
> > <
> https://www.juniper.net/us/en/products-services/routing/acx-series/acx5000/
> >
>
> Broadcom chipset, as I mentioned to the OP on c-nsp. Limits your options.
>
> Mark.
>
> _______________________________________________
> juniper-nsp mailing list juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net
> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/juniper-nsp
>
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Re: Cisco ME3600 migration to something with more 10 gig ports [ In reply to ]
On 21/Jul/15 14:41, Colton Conor wrote:
> What does the price point of the ME3600X/ASR920 platform look like?
> Looks like for at least the ASR920 and 10G SPF+ ports you have the buy
> the chassis and then upgrade licenses?

As with any vendor, the best deal you can do is one that won't be
published on a public mailing list.

But I'll tell you this, even with the various licenses the ASR920 has,
it is waaaaaaaaay cheaper than the ACX or QFX. And certainly about half
the cost of the ME3600X.

>
> Considering a Juniper GFX5100 is ~$11k brand new does it make any
> sense to go with something like an ASR920, or does the ASR have many
> more features than the Juniper QFX5100?

I'll say this, in reference to a fully or even reasonably licensed
ASR920, that QFX is over-priced.

But then again, perhaps you can wrestle Juniper's pricing down to
something low as well. It's hard to talk final prices as each deal is
each deal.

Feature-wise, the ASR920 will beat the QFX or ACX very easily. Even
though it's a switch, it's really a router.


> The 5100 has a ton of port built in, but is more of a switch than router.

Yes.

I think the ACX5000 is more of the router, but again, it's that Broadcom
job that gets in the way.

Mark.
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Re: Cisco ME3600 migration to something with more 10 gig ports [ In reply to ]
Thanks again for all your insights and feedback. I've tried to bring your
comments all together here below...

I'm revisiting this thread please since I am still looking to replace my
Cisco Me3600's in my distribution layer of my network. They only have (2)
10 gig ports and I need more 10 gig. I want all mpls l2vpn/l3vpn
capabilities that I at least have on my current ME3600's.

I would like to add that (6) ports 10 gig may not be enough for us to scale
to the future. We would like more than 6. If I LAG (2) 10's to my OLT/FTTH
Chassis and go east and west with 20 gig each direction, then I've used up
all (6) 10 gig's. I think this rules out the ASR920's.

--------------------------------------------------------------
About the Juniper ACX5000...

Mark mentioned - "Juniper's ACX5000 units are multi-rate systems. Only
problem is there are Broadcom chipsets in there. Okay for most applications,
but you may hit fundamental issues that software can't rectify. That is why
we dropped our consideration for them."...... " The ACX5000 was a reasonable
attempt, but that Broadcom chipset is a liability. As always, Juniper
continue to drop the ball on this...."

James mentioned - " Yep, I mean it's a QFX 5100. Cisco ASR 9xx are
certainly more better suited IMO for edge applications."
--------------------------------------------------------------
About the Juniper EX4550...

Mark mentioned - " The EX4550 falls very short of that re: full IP/MPLS
capabilities."
Raphael mentioned - "If l3vpn is your case you can consider ex4550 (with
caution). I use them as PE with some kind of success. But... there is some
limitations you should be aware of :
- the cpu is slow, even the snmp process can kill the control plane if there
is too much polling
- mpls : l2circuit is working, but not l2vpn, nor vpls. l3vpn is working but
the number of routing instance is limited (around 40 if I remember
correctly. And the big one : no local leaking between routing instance. Very
annoying.
- snmp counter on sub interface (but there are workaround)
--------------------------------------------------------------
About the Juniper QFX5100...

Richard mentioned - " My experience with that platform and 14.1 has been
very unpleasant. 13.2 does not support MPLS PE."
--------------------------------------------------------------
About the Cisco ASR903...

I'm interested in this. What do y'all think about this? It seems that this
is a scalable box with its dual power, dual cpu, 6 slot with various
Ethernet card options. I wonder what a starter box would cost (chassis, one
cpu, one power supply, one (8) port 10 gig module) ?



Any other comparable products out there y'all know of?

Aaron

-----Original Message-----
From: juniper-nsp [mailto:juniper-nsp-bounces@puck.nether.net] On Behalf Of
Raphael Mazelier
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 12:45 PM
To: juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net
Subject: Re: [j-nsp] Cisco ME3600 migration to something with more 10 gig
ports



Le 14/07/15 15:45, Phil Mayers a écrit :

>
> L3VPN was our use-case; it may or may not do L2VPN, we don't have much
> use for it locally.
>

If l3vpn is your case you can consider ex4550 (with caution).
I use them as PE with some kind of succes. But.. there is some limitations
you should be aware of :

- the cpu is slow, even the snmp process can kill the control plane if there
is too much polling
- mpls : l2circuit is working, but not l2vpn, nor vpls. l3vpn is working but
the number of routing instance is limited (arround 40 if I remember
correctly. And the big one : no local leaking between routing instance.
Very annoying.
- snmp counter on sub interface (but there are workarround)

Regards,

--
Raphael Mazelier
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