Mailing List Archive

FW: VPN 3005 concentrator 3DES to Juniper M20 [7:7044 4]
Hi,

I have seen a related IPSec issue where juniper does not reassemble
fragmented ESP packets; hence ES-PIC discards the packet due to not
receiving all data.

Solution was to 'prefragment' the packets before encapsulating into ESP/AH -
most Cisco routers have such an option; not sure what the Junos equivalent
option is.

Also recommend what the other guy suggested; try pinging with increasing
packet size to determine if an MTU issue exists - perhaps a firewall/router
ACL is blocking ESP or AH protocol yet letting IKE through?

Regards,

Tony

-----Original Message-----
From: Bosco Sachanandani [mailto:Bosco.Sachanandani@orange.co.in]
Sent: Tuesday, 10 June 2003 20:13
To: juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net
Subject: [j-nsp] FW: VPN 3005 concentrator 3DES to Juniper M20 [7:70444]


I have send this mail to the Cisco group too to get some insights.....would
appreciate some feedback from you all too!

TIA
Bosco


-----Original Message-----
From: Bosco Sachanandani
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 2:21 PM
To: cisco@groupstudy.com
Subject: VPN 3005 concentrator 3DES to Juniper M20 [7:70444]


Hey Group

I have a Cisco 3005 series concentrator box configured to run between my
Externel router and Checkpoint firewall such that:

INTERNET Router -------> VPN 3005 --------> Checkpoint------LAN

This is one segment of my network. On another segment of the network I have
a Juniper M20 router with an encapsulation card that is connected to the
internet via a different ISP.

I have sucessfully established a 3DES IPSec tunnel between these too
although I must admit that the freakin GUI interface of the VPN3005 sucks
big time and is confusing compared to the ultra cool Juniper CLI. It took me
a while to explore the damn hidden options in the GUI!

The problem is that although the tunnel is established, no data can pass
through it! From what I have heard from a reliable source, there is some
compatibility issue relating to the frame size and packet fragmentation when
it arrives at the Juniper Interface. Juniper says that it's router's are
designed for a high amount of Internet traffic and that packet fragmentation
is not something a gateway router should be bothered about. However, they
have suggested certain Cisco boxes like the 3662 that allows for packet
fragmentation and other such stuff....

Any of you guys wanna shed some like on this and tell me how I can make the
3005 talk to the M20??
Thanks a ton
Cheers
Bosco




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FW: VPN 3005 concentrator 3DES to Juniper M20 [7:7044 4] [ In reply to ]
Hi,

I had a similar problem to what you're highlighting. My problem was that the M20 didn't support PMTUD for GRE tunnels terminated in VRFs causing a black-hole phenomenon . We had to upgrade to Junos V5.5R3.1 because it was the only release that fixed this problem. After the upgrade we faced another problem with subscribers unable to access some websites. Reason was due to the famous problem of discarding ICMP type 3 code 4 (Fragmentation needed) on the internet on the way back to the webserver (RFC2923). We fixed the problem by adjusting the MSS value in TCP SYN packets to avoid the generation of those ICMP packets. Now, I haven't worked much with IPSec, but I think you can configure a definite MSS value on the concentrator or the client to enforce the endhosts to do all the fragmentation before sending out the packets.

Hope this helps.


Magdy



-----Original Message-----
From: Julian Eccli [mailto:je@juniper.net]
Sent: Wed, June 11, 2003 7:19 PM
To: Lars Higham; juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net
Subject: RE: [j-nsp] FW: VPN 3005 concentrator 3DES to Juniper M20
[7:70444]


IOS 12.2.13T and above has been tested for interop with JUNOS ES PICs
and works just fine. I had issues with IOS versions below this.


-Julian

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lars Higham [mailto:lhigham@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 6:39 AM
> To: juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net
> Subject: RE: [j-nsp] FW: VPN 3005 concentrator 3DES to Juniper M20
> [7:70444]
>
>
> Hello Bosco,
>
> Cisco's general answer to everything is to upgrade
> IOS/hardware so your
> customers are probably used to hearing it - particularly when
> implementing new features.
>
>
> Regards,
> Lars
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: juniper-nsp-bounces@puck.nether.net
> [mailto:juniper-nsp-bounces@puck.nether.net] On Behalf Of Bosco
> Sachanandani
> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 5:58 PM
> To: juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net
> Subject: RE: [j-nsp] FW: VPN 3005 concentrator 3DES to Juniper M20
> [7:70444]
>
>
> Hi Group
>
> Thanks Lars and Tony for the feedback.
>
> Just a couple of insights:
> The tunnel status between both the boxes is up ie the IKE as well as
> IPsec part. Infact, when I established connectivity for the first time
> between the two, I was able to telnet and ftp (login only) from a host
> behind the Juniper to a host behind the VPN concentrator.
> Hence as Lars
> suggested below, I do not think it's got to do anything with IKE/IPSec
> negotiation. Also, there are no firewalls / ACLs defined in between.
>
> The problem is definitely got to do some thing with resassembly of the
> ESP when it reaches the Juniper ES-PIC.
>
> Well seems like there is a certain software upgrade possible on the
> Cisco Box, I have to get my hands on that one and test it out
> first, am
> planning to do so next week.
>
> What I am seeking help from you guys about is that is there a way of
> re-configuring something on the Juniper or some software patch that
> allows me to configure fragmentation and packet assembly? You see most
> of our customers here are using a Cisco box, I can't keep telling them
> to upgrade to a higher IOS or Concentrator software
> version...... better
> try and change something from my side.
>
> Thanks a ton for listening.
>
> Cheers
> Bosco
>
> PS: Hey Tony! This Juniper Installation has been done by EPA
> itselF!! :)
> You can check it up with EPAHAHE..He has pointed out certain
> things for
> me to do here and check. Cheers!
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lars Higham [mailto:lhigham@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 8:07 PM
> To: juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net
> Subject: RE: [j-nsp] FW: VPN 3005 concentrator 3DES to Juniper M20
> [7:70444]
>
>
> Hello Bosco,
>
> First, ping across using small packet sizes, say 256 bytes.
> If it still
> doesn't work, it won't be an MTU/fragmentation issue.
>
> Set traceoptions on the Juniper and send us some output -
> including the
> initial IPSec negotiations, as well as when you're trying to
> send/receive the aforementioned pings.
>
>
> Regards,
> Lars Higham
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: juniper-nsp-bounces@puck.nether.net
> [mailto:juniper-nsp-bounces@puck.nether.net] On Behalf Of Bosco
> Sachanandani
> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 3:43 PM
> To: juniper-nsp@puck.nether.net
> Subject: [j-nsp] FW: VPN 3005 concentrator 3DES to Juniper
> M20 [7:70444]
>
>
> I have send this mail to the Cisco group too to get some
> insights.....would appreciate some feedback from you all too!
>
> TIA
> Bosco
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bosco Sachanandani
> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 2:21 PM
> To: cisco@groupstudy.com
> Subject: VPN 3005 concentrator 3DES to Juniper M20 [7:70444]
>
>
> Hey Group
>
> I have a Cisco 3005 series concentrator box configured to run
> between my
> Externel router and Checkpoint firewall such that:
>
> INTERNET Router -------> VPN 3005 --------> Checkpoint------LAN
>
> This is one segment of my network. On another segment of the network I
> have a Juniper M20 router with an encapsulation card that is connected
> to the internet via a different ISP.
>
> I have sucessfully established a 3DES IPSec tunnel between these too
> although I must admit that the freakin GUI interface of the VPN3005
> sucks big time and is confusing compared to the ultra cool
> Juniper CLI.
> It took me a while to explore the damn hidden options in the GUI!
>
> The problem is that although the tunnel is established, no
> data can pass
> through it! From what I have heard from a reliable source,
> there is some
> compatibility issue relating to the frame size and packet
> fragmentation
> when it arrives at the Juniper Interface. Juniper says that it's
> router's are designed for a high amount of Internet traffic and that
> packet fragmentation is not something a gateway router should be
> bothered about. However, they have suggested certain Cisco boxes like
> the 3662 that allows for packet fragmentation and other such stuff....
>
> Any of you guys wanna shed some like on this and tell me how
> I can make
> the 3005 talk to the M20?? Thanks a ton Cheers Bosco
>
>
>
>
> Message Posted at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=70444&t=70444
> --------------------------------------------------
> FAQ, list archives, and subscription info:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html
> Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to abuse@groupstudy.com
>
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