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Re: NetApp backup to 3rd party S3 storage
siggins at gmail
Nov 28, 2022, 8:22 AM
Post #1 of 2 (333 views)
Permalink
Greetings,
Can someone please clarify this for me? My understanding is that cloud
backup is just scheduling the snap diff v3 to object storage. You could
get similar functionality by any vendor that netapp approves, of which I
believe there are 4 others?

I tried getting licenses to try this on premise to ontap s3 and was
immediately turned away. It’s super unclear how netapp intends to position
this cloud. Has anyone been able to try the inbuilt backup to an ontap or
grid target?

On Mon, Nov 28, 2022 at 9:11 AM Heino Walther <hw@beardmann.dk> wrote:

> Hi Florian
>
>
>
> The short answer is no.
>
> What the cloud-backup as you call it, does, it to move “older” datablocks
> to an S3 target or it can move blocks in your snapshots.
>
> So the information of where the blocks are stored is still in the original
> volume, and you need to back that information up either by SnapMirror/Vault
> or an NDMP dump.
>
>
>
> Also, if you plan using anything else than another ONTAP or StorageGRID,
> you will need to buy license…
>
>
>
> If you do not have another NetApp system to SnapMirror to, I would look
> into NDMP backup as an option… it is supported by most backup products
> like BackupExec etc…
>
>
>
> /Heino
>
>
>
> *Fra: *Florian Schmid <fschmid@ubimet.com>
> *Dato: *mandag, 28. november 2022 kl. 14.45
> *Til: *toasters@teaparty.net <toasters@teaparty.net>
> *Emne: *NetApp backup to 3rd party S3 storage
>
> Hi there, I wanted to ask, if someone knows or has this done already, if
> you can backup your on premise NetApp Ontap volumes to a 3rd party S3
> storage. As far as I understand this so called "cloud-backup", it can send
> snapshot diffs (block based) to a S3 storage like AWS or on-premise
> StorageGrid nodes. But would this also work to 3rd party S3 storage tools
> like minIO? Let's image we have a huge on-premise S3 storage running minIO
> or what ever vendor, can I use this also as a target for my Ontap volume
> backup? NetApp itself is only mentioning 3rd party S3 storage for tiering,
> but not for backup. If this is not possible, is there another possibility
> to backup volume snapshot diffs to a non netapp storage? It must be block
> based and not file based backup. Best regards Florian
> _______________________________________________
> Toasters mailing list
> Toasters@teaparty.net
> https://www.teaparty.net/mailman/listinfo/toasters
Re: NetApp backup to 3rd party S3 storage [ In reply to ]
mnoedl at anexia-it
Nov 29, 2022, 5:30 AM
Post #2 of 2 (333 views)
Permalink
Hi Florian,

Let me split that up into two answers

Backup of NetApp Cluster:
This is possible with the help of CloudManager. It allows you to snapvault some volumes from your NetApp cluster to an S3 target (StorageGrid, AWS…). This behaves more or less the same as a traditional snapvault from one NetApp cluster to another.

Move some volumes of the Cluster:
This can be done in two ways. Either you snapvaul via CloudManager and then delete the volumes from your cluster and restore them from S3 if needed or you can use FabricPool for this. FabricPool uses an S3 Bucket as extension for your SSD Aggregate. You can define some policies on what and how data is moved to S3 to free up space on your aggregate. This link goes a little bit more into details about FabricPool https://docs.netapp.com/us-en/flexpod/hybrid-cloud/cloud-fabricpool_fabricpool.html

Best Regards
Markus

Markus Nödl
Senior Storage Architect
Teamlead Infrastructure

ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH

E-Mail: MNoedl@anexia-it.com<mailto:MNoedl@anexia-it.com>
Web: http://www.anexia.com/

Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstraße 140, 9020 Klagenfurt
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Windbichler
Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT U63216601



From: Florian Schmid <fschmid@ubimet.com>
Date: Tuesday, 29. November 2022 at 14:04
To: Alexander Griesser <AGriesser@anexia-it.com>
Cc: toasters <toasters@teaparty.net>
Subject: Re: NetApp backup to 3rd party S3 storage

Hi Alexander,

thank you very much for your answer.

What we want to achieve is at least a backup for our production NetApp Cluster and if possible, to move some volumes of the cluster, not to fill it up too much with things that don't need to run on flash storage.

Best regards,
Florian

________________________________
Von: "Alexander Griesser" <AGriesser@anexia-it.com>
An: "Florian Schmid" <fschmid@ubimet.com>, "toasters" <toasters@teaparty.net>
Gesendet: Dienstag, 29. November 2022 13:27:14
Betreff: AW: NetApp backup to 3rd party S3 storage

Hi Florian,

we’re using the Darksite version of the tool in production for some customers. It works as you would expect it to work, no public cloud involved (if you don’t want to). The backend on our end is also a StorageGrid S3 but it should work with others, job orchestration happens in the Cloud Manager locally on your end and it connects to the source filer and the destination system and the traffic is not running through the appliance.
There are some caveats as to what you can and cannot do and what features of the S3 backend are supported (lifecycle policies are problematic, f.ex.).

We’ve run through quite some big projects on that so far and it’s not always the best solution…
Can you maybe describe your exact usecase?

Best,

Alexander Griesser
Head of Systems Operations

ANEXIA Internetdienstleistungs GmbH

E-Mail: AGriesser@anexia-it.com<mailto:AGriesser@anexia-it.com>
Web: http://www.anexia-it.com<http://www.anexia-it.com/>

Anschrift Hauptsitz Klagenfurt: Feldkirchnerstraße 140, 9020 Klagenfurt
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Windbichler
Firmenbuch: FN 289918a | Gerichtsstand: Klagenfurt | UID-Nummer: AT U63216601

Von: Florian Schmid <fschmid@ubimet.com>
Gesendet: Dienstag, 29. November 2022 12:13
An: toasters <toasters@teaparty.net>
Betreff: Re: NetApp backup to 3rd party S3 storage

Hi there,

wow, thank you very much for all your help!

Yes, I'm now more confused than before, but please let me summarize all of your statements in my words:

* CBS is a solution to backup non S3 local NetApp volumes (flex vols) to Cloud providers or StorageGrid?
* S3 Snampmirror is only for S3 storage to S3 storage, example on-prem Ontap can also have S3 object storage and this I could sync to AWS S3 for example
* NetApp Cloud backup is somehow quite new and should compete with 3rd party backup vendors to use NetApp built in backup features to backup to cloud storage or on-prem storage-grid

* there will be in future maybe different backup targets, but not for now

* Snapdiff v3 is the only remaining snapdiff version and with this, I could do backup snapshot diffs block wise?

* Only a few 3rd party backup solutions are supporting this, but those can be used to fully backup an on-prem NetApp Ontap cluster and its volumes

* NDMP is quite old and can I do with this differential backups of NetApp volumes using snapshots?

* Should snapdiff v3 replace this?

* Best way to backup an on-prem NetApp Ontap Cluster would be a second NetApp cluster using snapmirror / snapvault

As I understand this correctly, if I want to backup a NetApp Ontap Cluster with only flex volumes, I can use another NetApp with snapmirror, or a NetApp StorageGrid, or some special 3rd party backup solutions, which support snapdiff v3?

Sorry for so much questions, but this is not easy to understand all the possibilities.

Best regards,
Florian

________________________________
Von: "Wayne McCormick" <Wayne.McCormick@sjrb.ca>
An: "Heino Walther" <hw@beardmann.dk>, "Justin Parisi" <Justin.Parisi@netapp.com>, "Florian Schmid" <fschmid@ubimet.com>, "toasters" <toasters@teaparty.net>
Gesendet: Montag, 28. November 2022 17:39:16
Betreff: RE: NetApp backup to 3rd party S3 storage

Umm, with ONTAP 9.9.1 and later there is SnapMIrror Cloud.

https://docs.netapp.com/us-en/ontap/task_dp_back_up_to_cloud.html#add-a-cloud-object-store

So, yes, you can backup a FlexVol to S3, but the target appears to be limited to ONTAP S3 or StorageGRID at the moment.

Wayne

From: Toasters <toasters-bounces@teaparty.net> On Behalf Of Heino Walther
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2022 8:02 AM
To: Parisi, Justin <Justin.Parisi@netapp.com>; Florian Schmid <fschmid@ubimet.com>; toasters@teaparty.net
Subject: SV: NetApp backup to 3rd party S3 storage


ATTENTION: This email originated outside of Shaw. Do not click links or open attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe. Immediately report suspicious emails using the Phish Alert Report button.
Please note, that S3 SnapMirror cannot snapmirror a FlexVol, but only your S3 buckets located on your ONTAP Filer…
There is no way to backup a FlexVol (and restore it as a FlexVol) other than with SnapMirror/Vault or NDMP.
…and there most likely never will be ?


/Heino

Fra: Parisi, Justin <Justin.Parisi@netapp.com<mailto:Justin.Parisi@netapp.com>>
Dato: mandag, 28. november 2022 kl. 15.32
Til: Heino Walther <hw@beardmann.dk<mailto:hw@beardmann.dk>>, Florian Schmid <fschmid@ubimet.com<mailto:fschmid@ubimet.com>>, toasters@teaparty.net<mailto:toasters@teaparty.net> <toasters@teaparty.net<mailto:toasters@teaparty.net>>
Emne: Re: NetApp backup to 3rd party S3 storage
No, that's FabricPool/cloud tiering. (older blocks, needing license for non-NetApp)

SnapMirror S3 is what Florian is referring to.

https://docs.netapp.com/us-en/ontap/s3-snapmirror/index.html

"In addition, unlike standard SnapMirror, S3 SnapMirror can have non-NetApp destinations."
[Das Bild wurde vom Absender entfernt.]<https://docs.netapp.com/us-en/ontap/s3-snapmirror/index.html>

S3 SnapMirror overview - NetApp<https://docs.netapp.com/us-en/ontap/s3-snapmirror/index.html>
Beginning with ONTAP 9.10.1, you can protect buckets in ONTAP S3 object stores using familiar SnapMirror mirroring and backup functionality
docs.netapp.com

So far, looks like there may be a limited number of non-NetApp targets supported (perhaps just AWS S3) but that list likely will grow.

You can also leverage 3rd party like Cleondris for index:

https://www.cleondris.com/en/snapmirror-cloud.xhtml
Cleondris: SnapMirror Cloud<https://www.cleondris.com/en/snapmirror-cloud.xhtml>
Cleondris and NetApp are pleased to announce availability of SnapMirror Cloud support in the Cleondris Data Manager product. Cleondris orchestrates and manages backup and recovery of data on NetApp ONTAP systems directly to Object storage (S3) leveraging NetApp's SnapMirror Cloud technology.. Due to is its deep integration with ONTAP APIs, Cleondris is able to backup data from ONTAP using the ...
www.cleondris.com<http://www.cleondris.com>


________________________________
From: Toasters <toasters-bounces@teaparty.net<mailto:toasters-bounces@teaparty.net>> on behalf of Heino Walther <hw@beardmann.dk<mailto:hw@beardmann.dk>>
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2022 9:03 AM
To: Florian Schmid <fschmid@ubimet.com<mailto:fschmid@ubimet.com>>; toasters@teaparty.net<mailto:toasters@teaparty.net> <toasters@teaparty.net<mailto:toasters@teaparty.net>>
Subject: SV: NetApp backup to 3rd party S3 storage

NetApp Security WARNING: This is an external email. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.



Hi Florian



The short answer is no.

What the cloud-backup as you call it, does, it to move “older” datablocks to an S3 target or it can move blocks in your snapshots.

So the information of where the blocks are stored is still in the original volume, and you need to back that information up either by SnapMirror/Vault or an NDMP dump.



Also, if you plan using anything else than another ONTAP or StorageGRID, you will need to buy license…



If you do not have another NetApp system to SnapMirror to, I would look into NDMP backup as an option… it is supported by most backup products like BackupExec etc…



/Heino



Fra: Florian Schmid <fschmid@ubimet.com<mailto:fschmid@ubimet.com>>
Dato: mandag, 28. november 2022 kl. 14.45
Til: toasters@teaparty.net<mailto:toasters@teaparty.net> <toasters@teaparty.net<mailto:toasters@teaparty.net>>
Emne: NetApp backup to 3rd party S3 storage

Hi there, I wanted to ask, if someone knows or has this done already, if you can backup your on premise NetApp Ontap volumes to a 3rd party S3 storage. As far as I understand this so called "cloud-backup", it can send snapshot diffs (block based) to a S3 storage like AWS or on-premise StorageGrid nodes. But would this also work to 3rd party S3 storage tools like minIO? Let's image we have a huge on-premise S3 storage running minIO or what ever vendor, can I use this also as a target for my Ontap volume backup? NetApp itself is only mentioning 3rd party S3 storage for tiering, but not for backup. If this is not possible, is there another possibility to backup volume snapshot diffs to a non netapp storage? It must be block based and not file based backup. Best regards Florian

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