Mailing List Archive

Dear all,

On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 11:17:06AM -0700, Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. wrote:
> Either Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez' office is on the NANOG list or
> someone is forwarding NANOG email to AOC's press office (in which case
> either spoofed as the original sender or AOC's office sends an ack to
> every email address it can find)..as I received this auto-ack in
> response to my email to to the list.
>
> Anyone have any insight into this?

The NANOG Mailing-list usage guidelines prohibit auto-reponse postings
to the list or to other users: https://www.nanog.org/resources/usage-guidelines/

The mailing list admin team (admins@nanog.org) can take action to
prevent auto-responders decrease the signal to noise ratio. As multiple
users have now made a report about an auto-responder, I'm sure the issue
will be resolved soon.

> And either way, what is the policy about forwarding list email to
> someone who is not on the list?

The NANOG mailing list is a so-called 'public' mailing list. Emails send
to the list are distributed to all subscribed email addresses, and in
addition to such this distribution, list postings archived at a publicly
accessible location for anyone prefering to use a web browser:
https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/

It is possible for users to distribute NANOG mailing list postings
through other means, such as additional forwarding and archiving
(example: https://marc.info/?l=nanog)

The NANOG mailing list AUP does not prohibit forwarding of emails which
were sent to NANOG the list to people not on the list.

Kind regards,

Job

On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 10:20 AM Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. <amitchell@isipp.com>
wrote:

> And either way, what is the policy about forwarding list email to someone
> who is not on the list?
>

If you are posting to NANOG under the impression that your email will only
be seen by network engineers and that it will never be "leaked" off-list to
the public, I have deal for you involving a few billion shillings I need to
smuggle out of Kenya...you can keep 10%, and I just need your routing
info...

-A

> On Jan 18, 2021, at 12:28 PM, Aaron C. de Bruyn <aaron@heyaaron.com> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 10:20 AM Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. <amitchell@isipp.com> wrote:
> And either way, what is the policy about forwarding list email to someone who is not on the list?
>
> If you are posting to NANOG under the impression that your email will only be seen by network engineers and that it will never be "leaked" off-list to the public, I have deal for you involving a few billion shillings I need to smuggle out of Kenya...you can keep 10%, and I just need your routing info...

Not under that impression at all. That's very different from "what is the policy" - at least in the groups I run, if the policy is "no sharing offlist" and then someone does, there are consequences for that someone.

Anne

--
Anne P. Mitchell, Attorney at Law
Dean of Cyberlaw & Cybersecurity, Lincoln Law School
Author: Section 6 of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 (the Federal anti-spam law)
Board of Directors, Denver Internet Exchange
Chair Emeritus, Asilomar Microcomputer Workshop
Former Counsel: Mail Abuse Prevention System (MAPS)

The list has public archives. Draw your own conclusions on the policy.

https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/

On 1/18/21 2:40 PM, Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. wrote:
> Not under that impression at all. That's very different from "what is
> the policy" - at least in the groups I run, if the policy is "no
> sharing offlist" and then someone does, there are consequences for
> that someone.
> Anne
>
> --
> Anne P. Mitchell, Attorney at Law
> Dean of Cyberlaw & Cybersecurity, Lincoln Law School
> Author: Section 6 of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 (the Federal anti-spam law)
> Board of Directors, Denver Internet Exchange
> Chair Emeritus, Asilomar Microcomputer Workshop
> Former Counsel: Mail Abuse Prevention System (MAPS)
>

There's a world of difference between "don't expect list posts to be
private to list members" and "don't forward the list to autoresponders."
The stupidity of the latter, if it can be tracked down to who did it,
should result in their removal from the list, at least until they explain
what caused them to do that and have undone it.

On Mon, 18 Jan 2021, Paul Timmins wrote:

> The list has public archives. Draw your own conclusions on the policy.
>
> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/
>
> On 1/18/21 2:40 PM, Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. wrote:
>> Not under that impression at all. That's very different from "what is the
>> policy" - at least in the groups I run, if the policy is "no sharing
>> offlist" and then someone does, there are consequences for that someone.
>> Anne
>>
>> --
>> Anne P. Mitchell, Attorney at Law
>> Dean of Cyberlaw & Cybersecurity, Lincoln Law School
>> Author: Section 6 of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 (the Federal anti-spam law)
>> Board of Directors, Denver Internet Exchange
>> Chair Emeritus, Asilomar Microcomputer Workshop
>> Former Counsel: Mail Abuse Prevention System (MAPS)
>>
>

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jon Lewis, MCP :) | I route
StackPath, Sr. Neteng | therefore you are
_________ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_________

I agree 100%.

I know the emails on this list are public and that is fine. What I don't
appreciate is that now my email address is in some politico's address list
because of someone's behavior.

- Javier

On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 3:20 PM Jon Lewis <jlewis@lewis.org> wrote:

> There's a world of difference between "don't expect list posts to be
> private to list members" and "don't forward the list to autoresponders."
> The stupidity of the latter, if it can be tracked down to who did it,
> should result in their removal from the list, at least until they explain
> what caused them to do that and have undone it.
>
> On Mon, 18 Jan 2021, Paul Timmins wrote:
>
> > The list has public archives. Draw your own conclusions on the policy.
> >
> > https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/
> >
> > On 1/18/21 2:40 PM, Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. wrote:
> >> Not under that impression at all. That's very different from "what is
> the
> >> policy" - at least in the groups I run, if the policy is "no sharing
> >> offlist" and then someone does, there are consequences for that
> someone.
> >> Anne
> >>
> >> --
> >> Anne P. Mitchell, Attorney at Law
> >> Dean of Cyberlaw & Cybersecurity, Lincoln Law School
> >> Author: Section 6 of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 (the Federal anti-spam
> law)
> >> Board of Directors, Denver Internet Exchange
> >> Chair Emeritus, Asilomar Microcomputer Workshop
> >> Former Counsel: Mail Abuse Prevention System (MAPS)
> >>
> >
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Jon Lewis, MCP :) | I route
> StackPath, Sr. Neteng | therefore you are
> _________ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_________
>

A-woman!

Sincerely,

Lorell Hathcock

> On Jan 18, 2021, at 1:36 PM, Javier J <javier@advancedmachines.us> wrote:
>
> ?
> I agree 100%.
>
> I know the emails on this list are public and that is fine. What I don't appreciate is that now my email address is in some politico's address list because of someone's behavior.
>
> - Javier
>
>> On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 3:20 PM Jon Lewis <jlewis@lewis.org> wrote:
>> There's a world of difference between "don't expect list posts to be
>> private to list members" and "don't forward the list to autoresponders."
>> The stupidity of the latter, if it can be tracked down to who did it,
>> should result in their removal from the list, at least until they explain
>> what caused them to do that and have undone it.
>>
>> On Mon, 18 Jan 2021, Paul Timmins wrote:
>>
>> > The list has public archives. Draw your own conclusions on the policy.
>> >
>> > https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/
>> >
>> > On 1/18/21 2:40 PM, Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. wrote:
>> >> Not under that impression at all. That's very different from "what is the
>> >> policy" - at least in the groups I run, if the policy is "no sharing
>> >> offlist" and then someone does, there are consequences for that someone.
>> >> Anne
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Anne P. Mitchell, Attorney at Law
>> >> Dean of Cyberlaw & Cybersecurity, Lincoln Law School
>> >> Author: Section 6 of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 (the Federal anti-spam law)
>> >> Board of Directors, Denver Internet Exchange
>> >> Chair Emeritus, Asilomar Microcomputer Workshop
>> >> Former Counsel: Mail Abuse Prevention System (MAPS)
>> >>
>> >
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Jon Lewis, MCP :) | I route
>> StackPath, Sr. Neteng | therefore you are
>> _________ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_________

javier,

I concur. What we don’t need on Nanog is outside parties deciding to “reign in” our discussions on political grounds!

-mel beckman

On Jan 18, 2021, at 12:38 PM, Javier J <javier@advancedmachines.us> wrote:

?
I agree 100%.

I know the emails on this list are public and that is fine. What I don't appreciate is that now my email address is in some politico's address list because of someone's behavior.

- Javier

On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 3:20 PM Jon Lewis <jlewis@lewis.org<mailto:jlewis@lewis.org>> wrote:
There's a world of difference between "don't expect list posts to be
private to list members" and "don't forward the list to autoresponders."
The stupidity of the latter, if it can be tracked down to who did it,
should result in their removal from the list, at least until they explain
what caused them to do that and have undone it.

On Mon, 18 Jan 2021, Paul Timmins wrote:

> The list has public archives. Draw your own conclusions on the policy.
>
> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/
>
> On 1/18/21 2:40 PM, Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. wrote:
>> Not under that impression at all. That's very different from "what is the
>> policy" - at least in the groups I run, if the policy is "no sharing
>> offlist" and then someone does, there are consequences for that someone.
>> Anne
>>
>> --
>> Anne P. Mitchell, Attorney at Law
>> Dean of Cyberlaw & Cybersecurity, Lincoln Law School
>> Author: Section 6 of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 (the Federal anti-spam law)
>> Board of Directors, Denver Internet Exchange
>> Chair Emeritus, Asilomar Microcomputer Workshop
>> Former Counsel: Mail Abuse Prevention System (MAPS)
>>
>

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jon Lewis, MCP :) | I route
StackPath, Sr. Neteng | therefore you are
_________ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_________

I find this comment insulting.


On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 3:40 PM Lorell Hathcock <lorell@hathcock.org> wrote:

> A-woman!
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Lorell Hathcock
>
> On Jan 18, 2021, at 1:36 PM, Javier J <javier@advancedmachines.us> wrote:
>
> ?
> I agree 100%.
>
> I know the emails on this list are public and that is fine. What I don't
> appreciate is that now my email address is in some politico's address list
> because of someone's behavior.
>
> - Javier
>
> On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 3:20 PM Jon Lewis <jlewis@lewis.org> wrote:
>
>> There's a world of difference between "don't expect list posts to be
>> private to list members" and "don't forward the list to autoresponders."
>> The stupidity of the latter, if it can be tracked down to who did it,
>> should result in their removal from the list, at least until they explain
>> what caused them to do that and have undone it.
>>
>> On Mon, 18 Jan 2021, Paul Timmins wrote:
>>
>> > The list has public archives. Draw your own conclusions on the policy.
>> >
>> > https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/
>> >
>> > On 1/18/21 2:40 PM, Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. wrote:
>> >> Not under that impression at all. That's very different from "what is
>> the
>> >> policy" - at least in the groups I run, if the policy is "no sharing
>> >> offlist" and then someone does, there are consequences for that
>> someone.
>> >> Anne
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Anne P. Mitchell, Attorney at Law
>> >> Dean of Cyberlaw & Cybersecurity, Lincoln Law School
>> >> Author: Section 6 of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 (the Federal anti-spam
>> law)
>> >> Board of Directors, Denver Internet Exchange
>> >> Chair Emeritus, Asilomar Microcomputer Workshop
>> >> Former Counsel: Mail Abuse Prevention System (MAPS)
>> >>
>> >
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Jon Lewis, MCP :) | I route
>> StackPath, Sr. Neteng | therefore you are
>> _________ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_________
>>
>

I couldn't agree more.
If I want to talk politics, I will go to other places. I use this mailing
list to talk about things relevant to technology and operation of networks
in North American and other places.

- Javier


On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 4:19 PM Mel Beckman <mel@beckman.org> wrote:

> javier,
>
> I concur. What we don’t need on Nanog is outside parties deciding to
> “reign in” our discussions on political grounds!
>
> -mel beckman
>
> On Jan 18, 2021, at 12:38 PM, Javier J <javier@advancedmachines.us> wrote:
>
> ?
> I agree 100%.
>
> I know the emails on this list are public and that is fine. What I don't
> appreciate is that now my email address is in some politico's address list
> because of someone's behavior.
>
> - Javier
>
> On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 3:20 PM Jon Lewis <jlewis@lewis.org> wrote:
>
>> There's a world of difference between "don't expect list posts to be
>> private to list members" and "don't forward the list to autoresponders."
>> The stupidity of the latter, if it can be tracked down to who did it,
>> should result in their removal from the list, at least until they explain
>> what caused them to do that and have undone it.
>>
>> On Mon, 18 Jan 2021, Paul Timmins wrote:
>>
>> > The list has public archives. Draw your own conclusions on the policy.
>> >
>> > https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/
>> >
>> > On 1/18/21 2:40 PM, Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. wrote:
>> >> Not under that impression at all. That's very different from "what is
>> the
>> >> policy" - at least in the groups I run, if the policy is "no sharing
>> >> offlist" and then someone does, there are consequences for that
>> someone.
>> >> Anne
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Anne P. Mitchell, Attorney at Law
>> >> Dean of Cyberlaw & Cybersecurity, Lincoln Law School
>> >> Author: Section 6 of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 (the Federal anti-spam
>> law)
>> >> Board of Directors, Denver Internet Exchange
>> >> Chair Emeritus, Asilomar Microcomputer Workshop
>> >> Former Counsel: Mail Abuse Prevention System (MAPS)
>> >>
>> >
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Jon Lewis, MCP :) | I route
>> StackPath, Sr. Neteng | therefore you are
>> _________ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_________
>>
>

Why are you emailing me?

On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 3:54 PM Jeff P <jeffp@jeffp.us> wrote:

> SEE!?!
>
> With no evidence yet publicly acknowledged as to who added the AOC email
> to the list now they are just accusing some random "A woman!"
>
> Words (The Pen) are mightier than any brute force (The Sword).
>
> And you did it without thought, just piled on. It came as natural to you
> as putting on your shoes in the morning.
>
> JeffP
> jeffp@jeffp.us
>
>
>
> *Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.*
>
> NOTICE:
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
> Use or dissemination by persons other than the intended recipient(s) is
> strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please
> notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail to correct our records.
> Please then delete the original message (including any attachments) in its
> entirety, including any backup processes that your system may perform.
> Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email are solely
> those of the author. Email transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure
> or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost,
> destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender,
> therefore, does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the
> contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission.
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: Lorell Hathcock <lorell@hathcock.org>
> Date: Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 12:43 PM
> Subject: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez' Office is on NANOG?? Or, what is
> the policy about sharing email offlist?
> To: Javier J <javier@advancedmachines.us>
> Cc: nanog <nanog@nanog.org>
>
>
> A-woman!
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Lorell Hathcock
>
> On Jan 18, 2021, at 1:36 PM, Javier J <javier@advancedmachines.us> wrote:
>
> ?
> I agree 100%.
>
> I know the emails on this list are public and that is fine. What I don't
> appreciate is that now my email address is in some politico's address list
> because of someone's behavior.
>
> - Javier
>
> On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 3:20 PM Jon Lewis <jlewis@lewis.org> wrote:
>
>> There's a world of difference between "don't expect list posts to be
>> private to list members" and "don't forward the list to autoresponders."
>> The stupidity of the latter, if it can be tracked down to who did it,
>> should result in their removal from the list, at least until they explain
>> what caused them to do that and have undone it.
>>
>> On Mon, 18 Jan 2021, Paul Timmins wrote:
>>
>> > The list has public archives. Draw your own conclusions on the policy.
>> >
>> > https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/
>> >
>> > On 1/18/21 2:40 PM, Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. wrote:
>> >> Not under that impression at all. That's very different from "what is
>> the
>> >> policy" - at least in the groups I run, if the policy is "no sharing
>> >> offlist" and then someone does, there are consequences for that
>> someone.
>> >> Anne
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Anne P. Mitchell, Attorney at Law
>> >> Dean of Cyberlaw & Cybersecurity, Lincoln Law School
>> >> Author: Section 6 of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 (the Federal anti-spam
>> law)
>> >> Board of Directors, Denver Internet Exchange
>> >> Chair Emeritus, Asilomar Microcomputer Workshop
>> >> Former Counsel: Mail Abuse Prevention System (MAPS)
>> >>
>> >
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Jon Lewis, MCP :) | I route
>> StackPath, Sr. Neteng | therefore you are
>> _________ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_________
>>
>

you too, why are you emailing me?

I didn't ask anyone to contact me off list.

On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 8:53 PM Sam Silvester <sam.silvester@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Archives are browsable by anybody. How do you expect to keep political
> types out of the discussion?
>
> On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 at 11:36 am, Javier J <javier@advancedmachines.us>
> wrote:
>
>> I couldn't agree more.
>> If I want to talk politics, I will go to other places. I use this mailing
>> list to talk about things relevant to technology and operation of networks
>> in North American and other places.
>>
>> - Javier
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 4:19 PM Mel Beckman <mel@beckman.org> wrote:
>>
>>> javier,
>>>
>>> I concur. What we don’t need on Nanog is outside parties deciding to
>>> “reign in” our discussions on political grounds!
>>>
>>> -mel beckman
>>>
>>> On Jan 18, 2021, at 12:38 PM, Javier J <javier@advancedmachines.us>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?
>>> I agree 100%.
>>>
>>> I know the emails on this list are public and that is fine. What I
>>> don't appreciate is that now my email address is in some politico's address
>>> list because of someone's behavior.
>>>
>>> - Javier
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 3:20 PM Jon Lewis <jlewis@lewis.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> There's a world of difference between "don't expect list posts to be
>>>> private to list members" and "don't forward the list to autoresponders."
>>>> The stupidity of the latter, if it can be tracked down to who did it,
>>>> should result in their removal from the list, at least until they
>>>> explain
>>>> what caused them to do that and have undone it.
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 18 Jan 2021, Paul Timmins wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > The list has public archives. Draw your own conclusions on the policy.
>>>> >
>>>> > https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/
>>>> >
>>>> > On 1/18/21 2:40 PM, Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. wrote:
>>>> >> Not under that impression at all. That's very different from "what
>>>> is the
>>>> >> policy" - at least in the groups I run, if the policy is "no sharing
>>>> >> offlist" and then someone does, there are consequences for that
>>>> someone.
>>>> >> Anne
>>>> >>
>>>> >> --
>>>> >> Anne P. Mitchell, Attorney at Law
>>>> >> Dean of Cyberlaw & Cybersecurity, Lincoln Law School
>>>> >> Author: Section 6 of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 (the Federal
>>>> anti-spam law)
>>>> >> Board of Directors, Denver Internet Exchange
>>>> >> Chair Emeritus, Asilomar Microcomputer Workshop
>>>> >> Former Counsel: Mail Abuse Prevention System (MAPS)
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Jon Lewis, MCP :) | I route
>>>> StackPath, Sr. Neteng | therefore you are
>>>> _________ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_________
>>>>
>>>

I contacted you (and others) off list to avoid a public discussion on a
board dedicated to the discussion of networking to call out your misogynist
comment in a previous post with content that did not further any discussion
relevant to networking... If the admins are interested in the full content
of several messages that Javier J and I exchanged , I will provide the full
email chains to provide context to the single email posted here to any who
contacts me off list. But since you wish to make it a public discussion, I
would like to call attention to your failure to follow the usage guidelines
and code of conduct outlined in the NANOG terms of use as agreed to in
subscribing to this list:

https://www.nanog.org/about/code-conduct/
https://www.nanog.org/resources/usage-guidelines/

I suggest any one who wants to threaten other users, leave misogynistic
content, or leave irrelevant messages that are simply designed to degrade
others should think twice before they post it on NANOG. And then just not
do it. This is not the forum for that type of conversation. Please take it
to Twitter or Gab or Parler or Facebook or your platform of choice, but
NANOG as founded and conducted is for a technical discussion board for
networking and is not the platform for that kind of content. It is a waste
of time for those of us who are not interested in your opinion of any other
subject not directly related to networking to have to read through a
garbage post only to get slapped in the face with your lack of etiquette or
sense of decorum. We all agreed to the rules, and we should all act
accordingly.

JeffP
jeffp@jeffp.us

On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 10:34 PM Javier J <javier@advancedmachines.us>
wrote:

> Why are you emailing me?
>
> On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 3:54 PM Jeff P <jeffp@jeffp.us> wrote:
>
>> SEE!?!
>>
>> With no evidence yet publicly acknowledged as to who added the AOC email
>> to the list now they are just accusing some random "A woman!"
>>
>> Words (The Pen) are mightier than any brute force (The Sword).
>>
>> And you did it without thought, just piled on. It came as natural to you
>> as putting on your shoes in the morning.
>>
>> JeffP
>> jeffp@jeffp.us
>>
>>
>>
>> *Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.*
>>
>> NOTICE:
>> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
>> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
>> addressed. Use or dissemination by persons other than the intended
>> recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in
>> error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail to correct our
>> records. Please then delete the original message (including any
>> attachments) in its entirety, including any backup processes that your
>> system may perform. Please note that any views or opinions presented in
>> this email are solely those of the author. Email transmission cannot be
>> guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted,
>> corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses.
>> The sender, therefore, does not accept liability for any errors or
>> omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of
>> e-mail transmission.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>> From: Lorell Hathcock <lorell@hathcock.org>
>> Date: Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 12:43 PM
>> Subject: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez' Office is on NANOG?? Or, what is
>> the policy about sharing email offlist?
>> To: Javier J <javier@advancedmachines.us>
>> Cc: nanog <nanog@nanog.org>
>>
>>
>> A-woman!
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Lorell Hathcock
>>
>> On Jan 18, 2021, at 1:36 PM, Javier J <javier@advancedmachines.us> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>> I agree 100%.
>>
>> I know the emails on this list are public and that is fine. What I don't
>> appreciate is that now my email address is in some politico's address list
>> because of someone's behavior.
>>
>> - Javier
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 3:20 PM Jon Lewis <jlewis@lewis.org> wrote:
>>
>>> There's a world of difference between "don't expect list posts to be
>>> private to list members" and "don't forward the list to autoresponders."
>>> The stupidity of the latter, if it can be tracked down to who did it,
>>> should result in their removal from the list, at least until they
>>> explain
>>> what caused them to do that and have undone it.
>>>
>>> On Mon, 18 Jan 2021, Paul Timmins wrote:
>>>
>>> > The list has public archives. Draw your own conclusions on the policy.
>>> >
>>> > https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/
>>> >
>>> > On 1/18/21 2:40 PM, Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. wrote:
>>> >> Not under that impression at all. That's very different from "what
>>> is the
>>> >> policy" - at least in the groups I run, if the policy is "no sharing
>>> >> offlist" and then someone does, there are consequences for that
>>> someone.
>>> >> Anne
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> Anne P. Mitchell, Attorney at Law
>>> >> Dean of Cyberlaw & Cybersecurity, Lincoln Law School
>>> >> Author: Section 6 of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 (the Federal anti-spam
>>> law)
>>> >> Board of Directors, Denver Internet Exchange
>>> >> Chair Emeritus, Asilomar Microcomputer Workshop
>>> >> Former Counsel: Mail Abuse Prevention System (MAPS)
>>> >>
>>> >
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Jon Lewis, MCP :) | I route
>>> StackPath, Sr. Neteng | therefore you are
>>> _________ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_________
>>>
>>

Yeah he did the same dolt act to me to. Just a really bored dolt looking for nonsense with a crush on AOC.

--
J. Hellenthal

The fact that there's a highway to Hell but only a stairway to Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic volume.

> On Jan 19, 2021, at 00:40, Javier J <javier@advancedmachines.us> wrote:
>
> ?
> you too, why are you emailing me?
>
> I didn't ask anyone to contact me off list.
>
>> On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 8:53 PM Sam Silvester <sam.silvester@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Archives are browsable by anybody. How do you expect to keep political types out of the discussion?
>>
>>> On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 at 11:36 am, Javier J <javier@advancedmachines.us> wrote:
>>> I couldn't agree more.
>>> If I want to talk politics, I will go to other places. I use this mailing list to talk about things relevant to technology and operation of networks in North American and other places.
>>>
>>> - Javier
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 4:19 PM Mel Beckman <mel@beckman.org> wrote:
>>>> javier,
>>>>
>>>> I concur. What we don’t need on Nanog is outside parties deciding to “reign in” our discussions on political grounds!
>>>>
>>>> -mel beckman
>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 18, 2021, at 12:38 PM, Javier J <javier@advancedmachines.us> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> ?
>>>>> I agree 100%.
>>>>>
>>>>> I know the emails on this list are public and that is fine. What I don't appreciate is that now my email address is in some politico's address list because of someone's behavior.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Javier
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 3:20 PM Jon Lewis <jlewis@lewis.org> wrote:
>>>>>> There's a world of difference between "don't expect list posts to be
>>>>>> private to list members" and "don't forward the list to autoresponders."
>>>>>> The stupidity of the latter, if it can be tracked down to who did it,
>>>>>> should result in their removal from the list, at least until they explain
>>>>>> what caused them to do that and have undone it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 18 Jan 2021, Paul Timmins wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > The list has public archives. Draw your own conclusions on the policy.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > On 1/18/21 2:40 PM, Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. wrote:
>>>>>> >> Not under that impression at all. That's very different from "what is the
>>>>>> >> policy" - at least in the groups I run, if the policy is "no sharing
>>>>>> >> offlist" and then someone does, there are consequences for that someone.
>>>>>> >> Anne
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> --
>>>>>> >> Anne P. Mitchell, Attorney at Law
>>>>>> >> Dean of Cyberlaw & Cybersecurity, Lincoln Law School
>>>>>> >> Author: Section 6 of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 (the Federal anti-spam law)
>>>>>> >> Board of Directors, Denver Internet Exchange
>>>>>> >> Chair Emeritus, Asilomar Microcomputer Workshop
>>>>>> >> Former Counsel: Mail Abuse Prevention System (MAPS)
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Jon Lewis, MCP :) | I route
>>>>>> StackPath, Sr. Neteng | therefore you are
>>>>>> _________ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_________

Everyone take a deep breath, calm down, and move on from this thread.

On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 8:22 AM Jeff P <jeffp@jeffp.us> wrote:

> I contacted you (and others) off list to avoid a public discussion on a
> board dedicated to the discussion of networking to call out your misogynist
> comment in a previous post with content that did not further any discussion
> relevant to networking... If the admins are interested in the full content
> of several messages that Javier J and I exchanged , I will provide the full
> email chains to provide context to the single email posted here to any who
> contacts me off list. But since you wish to make it a public discussion, I
> would like to call attention to your failure to follow the usage guidelines
> and code of conduct outlined in the NANOG terms of use as agreed to in
> subscribing to this list:
>
> https://www.nanog.org/about/code-conduct/
> https://www.nanog.org/resources/usage-guidelines/
>
> I suggest any one who wants to threaten other users, leave misogynistic
> content, or leave irrelevant messages that are simply designed to degrade
> others should think twice before they post it on NANOG. And then just not
> do it. This is not the forum for that type of conversation. Please take it
> to Twitter or Gab or Parler or Facebook or your platform of choice, but
> NANOG as founded and conducted is for a technical discussion board for
> networking and is not the platform for that kind of content. It is a waste
> of time for those of us who are not interested in your opinion of any other
> subject not directly related to networking to have to read through a
> garbage post only to get slapped in the face with your lack of etiquette or
> sense of decorum. We all agreed to the rules, and we should all act
> accordingly.
>
> JeffP
> jeffp@jeffp.us
>
> On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 10:34 PM Javier J <javier@advancedmachines.us>
> wrote:
>
>> Why are you emailing me?
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 3:54 PM Jeff P <jeffp@jeffp.us> wrote:
>>
>>> SEE!?!
>>>
>>> With no evidence yet publicly acknowledged as to who added the AOC email
>>> to the list now they are just accusing some random "A woman!"
>>>
>>> Words (The Pen) are mightier than any brute force (The Sword).
>>>
>>> And you did it without thought, just piled on. It came as natural to you
>>> as putting on your shoes in the morning.
>>>
>>> JeffP
>>> jeffp@jeffp.us
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.*
>>>
>>> NOTICE:
>>> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
>>> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
>>> addressed. Use or dissemination by persons other than the intended
>>> recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in
>>> error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail to correct our
>>> records. Please then delete the original message (including any
>>> attachments) in its entirety, including any backup processes that your
>>> system may perform. Please note that any views or opinions presented in
>>> this email are solely those of the author. Email transmission cannot be
>>> guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted,
>>> corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses.
>>> The sender, therefore, does not accept liability for any errors or
>>> omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of
>>> e-mail transmission.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>> From: Lorell Hathcock <lorell@hathcock.org>
>>> Date: Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 12:43 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez' Office is on NANOG?? Or, what is
>>> the policy about sharing email offlist?
>>> To: Javier J <javier@advancedmachines.us>
>>> Cc: nanog <nanog@nanog.org>
>>>
>>>
>>> A-woman!
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>> Lorell Hathcock
>>>
>>> On Jan 18, 2021, at 1:36 PM, Javier J <javier@advancedmachines.us>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?
>>> I agree 100%.
>>>
>>> I know the emails on this list are public and that is fine. What I
>>> don't appreciate is that now my email address is in some politico's address
>>> list because of someone's behavior.
>>>
>>> - Javier
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 3:20 PM Jon Lewis <jlewis@lewis.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> There's a world of difference between "don't expect list posts to be
>>>> private to list members" and "don't forward the list to autoresponders."
>>>> The stupidity of the latter, if it can be tracked down to who did it,
>>>> should result in their removal from the list, at least until they
>>>> explain
>>>> what caused them to do that and have undone it.
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 18 Jan 2021, Paul Timmins wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > The list has public archives. Draw your own conclusions on the policy.
>>>> >
>>>> > https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/
>>>> >
>>>> > On 1/18/21 2:40 PM, Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. wrote:
>>>> >> Not under that impression at all. That's very different from "what
>>>> is the
>>>> >> policy" - at least in the groups I run, if the policy is "no sharing
>>>> >> offlist" and then someone does, there are consequences for that
>>>> someone.
>>>> >> Anne
>>>> >>
>>>> >> --
>>>> >> Anne P. Mitchell, Attorney at Law
>>>> >> Dean of Cyberlaw & Cybersecurity, Lincoln Law School
>>>> >> Author: Section 6 of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 (the Federal
>>>> anti-spam law)
>>>> >> Board of Directors, Denver Internet Exchange
>>>> >> Chair Emeritus, Asilomar Microcomputer Workshop
>>>> >> Former Counsel: Mail Abuse Prevention System (MAPS)
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Jon Lewis, MCP :) | I route
>>>> StackPath, Sr. Neteng | therefore you are
>>>> _________ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_________
>>>>
>>>

Sounds like someone has more time to talk/type about political dogma with
random strangers than the purpose of this mailing list.

- J

On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 6:58 AM J. Hellenthal <jhellenthal@dataix.net>
wrote:

> Yeah he did the same dolt act to me to. Just a really bored dolt looking
> for nonsense with a crush on AOC.
>
> --
> J. Hellenthal
>
> The fact that there's a highway to Hell but only a stairway to Heaven says
> a lot about anticipated traffic volume.
>
> On Jan 19, 2021, at 00:40, Javier J <javier@advancedmachines.us> wrote:
>
> ?
> you too, why are you emailing me?
>
> I didn't ask anyone to contact me off list.
>
> On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 8:53 PM Sam Silvester <sam.silvester@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Archives are browsable by anybody. How do you expect to keep political
>> types out of the discussion?
>>
>> On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 at 11:36 am, Javier J <javier@advancedmachines.us>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I couldn't agree more.
>>> If I want to talk politics, I will go to other places. I use this
>>> mailing list to talk about things relevant to technology and operation of
>>> networks in North American and other places.
>>>
>>> - Javier
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 4:19 PM Mel Beckman <mel@beckman.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> javier,
>>>>
>>>> I concur. What we don’t need on Nanog is outside parties deciding to
>>>> “reign in” our discussions on political grounds!
>>>>
>>>> -mel beckman
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 18, 2021, at 12:38 PM, Javier J <javier@advancedmachines.us>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ?
>>>> I agree 100%.
>>>>
>>>> I know the emails on this list are public and that is fine. What I
>>>> don't appreciate is that now my email address is in some politico's address
>>>> list because of someone's behavior.
>>>>
>>>> - Javier
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 3:20 PM Jon Lewis <jlewis@lewis.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> There's a world of difference between "don't expect list posts to be
>>>>> private to list members" and "don't forward the list to
>>>>> autoresponders."
>>>>> The stupidity of the latter, if it can be tracked down to who did it,
>>>>> should result in their removal from the list, at least until they
>>>>> explain
>>>>> what caused them to do that and have undone it.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 18 Jan 2021, Paul Timmins wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> > The list has public archives. Draw your own conclusions on the
>>>>> policy.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On 1/18/21 2:40 PM, Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. wrote:
>>>>> >> Not under that impression at all. That's very different from "what
>>>>> is the
>>>>> >> policy" - at least in the groups I run, if the policy is "no
>>>>> sharing
>>>>> >> offlist" and then someone does, there are consequences for that
>>>>> someone.
>>>>> >> Anne
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> --
>>>>> >> Anne P. Mitchell, Attorney at Law
>>>>> >> Dean of Cyberlaw & Cybersecurity, Lincoln Law School
>>>>> >> Author: Section 6 of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 (the Federal
>>>>> anti-spam law)
>>>>> >> Board of Directors, Denver Internet Exchange
>>>>> >> Chair Emeritus, Asilomar Microcomputer Workshop
>>>>> >> Former Counsel: Mail Abuse Prevention System (MAPS)
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Jon Lewis, MCP :) | I route
>>>>> StackPath, Sr. Neteng | therefore you are
>>>>> _________ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_________
>>>>>
>>>>