Mailing List Archive

Feature request. MythVideo folder browser.
Hi all.

Im not sure on were to send feature requests so i start here.

I have a small problem with the MythVideo GUI.
Its a pain to use folders.
And sins most movies are split in two files and my Seinfeld eps are
sorted in season folders i need this feature to work.

What i want:
A "folder" browser much like the MythGallery browser.
A pic in the folder displayed on the folder and the folder name printed
underneath.

Have a look at:
http://myhtpc.net/images/screens/large/small_video1.jpg

Thats exactly what i want.

The folder browser in MythVideo today is hard to use with the remote and
its hard to find what you are looking for.

/DonLKSAB
Re: Feature request. MythVideo folder browser. [ In reply to ]
I have a similar request, but I rather have it done as something like
adding a "category field" or have everything laid out in directories a la
MythMusic with the "directory" option. I'd like to be able to flag certain
movie types as a freeform category (sorry, yes, PITA non-coder here).

Like many others I imagine, I also have a rather complicated folder
structure of movies - as a simple example, I have a directory for full
length films, a dir containing dirs of TV series and a dir containing music
videos (both of the latter are symlinked from the main movie folder).

The problem I have with this is that at the moment all of my feature films
are interspersed with serialised TV episodes so in order to go from "Ronin"
to "Solaris" I have to go through 30 episodes of "Sealab 2021" and Pi to
Pitch Black involes about 70 hops through Pinky and the Brain cartoons -
which of course I'd like to have in their own section or subsection. I
experimented with editing the MySQL tables so that certain videos sort out
in certain places (prefixing them with certain flags); it works, but
obviously it's a boring and inelegant approach and it still means I can't
restrict my "browse videos" list to less than 400.

If anyone else has any ideas on this, I'd be much obliged for the input -
again, not sure if this is the right list, if not let me know. As for now,
I'd like to postulate the following:

In MythVideo setup, you can flag certain directories as "anything under
this lives in section XYZ" so as to be able to cascade categories, and then
in MythVideo you'd have a category selector like MythMusic where you say "I
only want to browse my TV shows" or whatever. It might also give you the
possibility to categorise feature films, so you could say "I want to see an
action movie" and all that sort of stuff.

Sorry for the interjection, but I've found this a little cumbersome in the
past. As soon as I've learnt cpp, I'll get back to you all :^)

Thanks for any help/advice on the matter

At 12:23 21/05/2004 +0200, you wrote:
>Hi all.
>
>Im not sure on were to send feature requests so i start here.
>
>I have a small problem with the MythVideo GUI.
>Its a pain to use folders.
>And sins most movies are split in two files and my Seinfeld eps are sorted
>in season folders i need this feature to work.
>
>What i want:
>A "folder" browser much like the MythGallery browser.
>A pic in the folder displayed on the folder and the folder name printed
>underneath.
>
>Have a look at:
>http://myhtpc.net/images/screens/large/small_video1.jpg
>
>Thats exactly what i want.
>
>The folder browser in MythVideo today is hard to use with the remote and
>its hard to find what you are looking for.
>
>/DonLKSAB
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>mythtv-users mailing list
>mythtv-users@mythtv.org
>http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: Feature request. MythVideo folder browser. [ In reply to ]
Stephen Tait wrote:

> I have a similar request, but I rather have it done as something like
> adding a "category field" or have everything laid out in directories a
> la MythMusic with the "directory" option. I'd like to be able to flag
> certain movie types as a freeform category (sorry, yes, PITA non-coder
> here).
>
> Like many others I imagine, I also have a rather complicated folder
> structure of movies - as a simple example, I have a directory for full
> length films, a dir containing dirs of TV series and a dir containing
> music videos (both of the latter are symlinked from the main movie
> folder).
>
> The problem I have with this is that at the moment all of my feature
> films are interspersed with serialised TV episodes so in order to go
> from "Ronin" to "Solaris" I have to go through 30 episodes of "Sealab
> 2021" and Pi to Pitch Black involes about 70 hops through Pinky and
> the Brain cartoons - which of course I'd like to have in their own
> section or subsection. I experimented with editing the MySQL tables so
> that certain videos sort out in certain places (prefixing them with
> certain flags); it works, but obviously it's a boring and inelegant
> approach and it still means I can't restrict my "browse videos" list
> to less than 400.
>
> If anyone else has any ideas on this, I'd be much obliged for the
> input - again, not sure if this is the right list, if not let me know.
> As for now, I'd like to postulate the following:
>
> In MythVideo setup, you can flag certain directories as "anything
> under this lives in section XYZ" so as to be able to cascade
> categories, and then in MythVideo you'd have a category selector like
> MythMusic where you say "I only want to browse my TV shows" or
> whatever. It might also give you the possibility to categorise feature
> films, so you could say "I want to see an action movie" and all that
> sort of stuff.
>
> Sorry for the interjection, but I've found this a little cumbersome in
> the past. As soon as I've learnt cpp, I'll get back to you all :^)
>
> Thanks for any help/advice on the matter
>
> At 12:23 21/05/2004 +0200, you wrote:
>
>> Hi all.
>>
>> Im not sure on were to send feature requests so i start here.
>>
>> I have a small problem with the MythVideo GUI.
>> Its a pain to use folders.
>> And sins most movies are split in two files and my Seinfeld eps are
>> sorted in season folders i need this feature to work.
>>
>> What i want:
>> A "folder" browser much like the MythGallery browser.
>> A pic in the folder displayed on the folder and the folder name
>> printed underneath.
>>
>> Have a look at:
>> http://myhtpc.net/images/screens/large/small_video1.jpg
>>
>> Thats exactly what i want.
>>
>> The folder browser in MythVideo today is hard to use with the remote
>> and its hard to find what you are looking for.
>>
>> /DonLKSAB
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mythtv-users mailing list
>> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
>> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>mythtv-users mailing list
>mythtv-users@mythtv.org
>http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
>
I still think that MythVideo could be well served by using the interface
from the Program Finder (already exists) where you can browse by letter
but then also offer options to choose whether that letter is the title,
cateogry, etc. The interface seems very easy for me to use when
scheduling programs and could work just as well for Videos.

Kevin

_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: Feature request. MythVideo folder browser. [ In reply to ]
Martin Saldert wrote:

> Hi all.
>
> Im not sure on were to send feature requests so i start here.
>
> I have a small problem with the MythVideo GUI. Its a pain to use
> folders. And sins most movies are split in two files and my Seinfeld
> eps are sorted in season folders i need this feature to work.
Why not go into the per movie settings and set which movie to play
next. Works rather well.
>
> What i want: A "folder" browser much like the MythGallery browser. A
> pic in the folder displayed on the folder and the folder name printed
> underneath.
>
> Have a look at:
> http://myhtpc.net/images/screens/large/small_video1.jpg
>
> Thats exactly what i want.
>
> The folder browser in MythVideo today is hard to use with the remote
> and its hard to find what you are looking for.

Looks great, look forward to your patches.

-dan
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: Feature request. MythVideo folder browser. [ In reply to ]
Dan Morphis wrote:
> Looks great, look forward to your patches.

I'm sure if he could code it, he probably would, rather than ask someone
else to do it. Not everyone that uses MythTV is a developer. As a
"multimedia" device, I would guess that end user input (and this guy
sounds like an end user) is pretty important. Snide if-you-can't-help-
don't-speak responses like this help no one at all.

--
jason lee
Steeplesoft -- http://www.steeplesoft.com
README.txt -- http://jason.theleehouse.net
Bosco -- http://bosco.sourceforge.net
Re: Feature request. MythVideo folder browser. [ In reply to ]
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Dan Morphis wrote:

| Martin Saldert wrote:
|
|
<snip>

|>
|> Have a look at:
|> http://myhtpc.net/images/screens/large/small_video1.jpg
|>
|> Thats exactly what i want.
|>
|> The folder browser in MythVideo today is hard to use with the
|> remote and its hard to find what you are looking for.
|
|
| Looks great, look forward to your patches.
|
| -dan ____

I've always loved these replies... So helpful... So friendly... They
really contribute.

C'mon. It's a Feature Request, not a Feature Demand. Why get all ...
indignant (?) ... when someone points out something that might make
the project more usable? Why not just say, "If enough people need
this, we might add it in the future. In the mean time, you might try
to implement it yourself." It both ackowledges it's a request, and
suggests participation... Positive tone all the way around.

Just my $0.02.

- --Phill

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFArjbYBaJEzZdnEPsRAgmnAJ95+9NRYjqg/yZd3ZgQO2rTKqquPgCfb/F7
bPFT4MXjQlG1wuzVg5+03Fw=
=F7E8
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: Feature request. MythVideo folder browser. [ In reply to ]
Jason Lee wrote:

> Dan Morphis wrote:
>
>> Looks great, look forward to your patches.
>
>
> I'm sure if he could code it, he probably would, rather than ask
> someone else to do it. Not everyone that uses MythTV is a developer.
> As a "multimedia" device, I would guess that end user input (and this
> guy sounds like an end user) is pretty important. Snide
> if-you-can't-help- don't-speak responses like this help no one at all.


Not to put too fine a point on it, but it's never been a secret that
MythTV is a project by developers for developers. Things get added to
this app by and large because a particular developer wants the feature
bad enough to implement it. While occasionally developers see a feature
request and say "hey that's a great idea" more often than not, it's read
as "here's another person wanting me to spend hours working on something
I'll never use". Apparently none of the folks writing code for MythTV
has a large enough video collection for them to feel like modifying the
interface to deal with large file sets.


_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: Feature request. MythVideo folder browser. [ In reply to ]
J. Donavan Stanley wrote:

> bad enough to implement it. While occasionally developers see a feature
> request and say "hey that's a great idea" more often than not, it's read
> as "here's another person wanting me to spend hours working on something
> I'll never use". Apparently none of the folks writing code for MythTV

Which is fine, but, as another poster pointed out, requests by
non-developer users need not be greeted with such snide and curt
responses. There's absolutely no gain for anyone in that.

--
jason lee
Steeplesoft -- http://www.steeplesoft.com
README.txt -- http://jason.theleehouse.net
Bosco -- http://bosco.sourceforge.net
Re: Feature request. MythVideo folder browser. [ In reply to ]
Phill Wiggin wrote:
> C'mon. It's a Feature Request, not a Feature Demand. Why get all ...
> indignant (?) ... when someone points out something that might make
> the project more usable? Why not just say, "If enough people need
> this, we might add it in the future. In the mean time, you might try
The problem is the "we". You presume that the developers and
contributors on the project just sit around and wait for people to
submit ideas. They don't. If the developers and contributors on the
project have an itch, they scratch it.

1,000 people could request this feature, and I don't honestly see Isaac,
Thor, Bruce, Matt, J Donavan, Chris, Kirby, Myself, or any of the other
regular contributors chomping at the bit waiting for people to demand
more of their time. The developers and contributors have an idea for
something they'd like to see mythtv do, and they implement it. Take
for example the language support, if I recall the thread way back when
correctly; someone said they want to see the text translated into abc
language. Isaac said something to the effect of, then impliment it and
send in a patch. This person did, and the rest is history.

If MythTV was a commercial product, there would be no problem with
asking the developers, (whom you are paying by way of buying a license
to the product) to impliment xyz feature. But the fact is, MythTV is a
free, open source project. If their is a preticular feature you want,
impliment it.

-dan
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: Feature request. MythVideo folder browser. [ In reply to ]
Jason Lee wrote:

> J. Donavan Stanley wrote:
>
> > bad enough to implement it. While occasionally developers see a
> > feature request and say "hey that's a great idea" more often than
> > not, it's read as "here's another person wanting me to spend hours
> > working on something I'll never use". Apparently none of the folks
> > writing code for MythTV
>
>
> Which is fine, but, as another poster pointed out, requests by
> non-developer users need not be greeted with such snide and curt
> responses. There's absolutely no gain for anyone in that.
>
Sure their is. . . My enjoyment :-) Just kidding.
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: Feature request. MythVideo folder browser. [ In reply to ]
Dan Morphis wrote:

> Phill Wiggin wrote:
>
>> C'mon. It's a Feature Request, not a Feature Demand. Why get all ...
>> indignant (?) ... when someone points out something that might make
>> the project more usable? Why not just say, "If enough people need
>> this, we might add it in the future. In the mean time, you might try
>
> The problem is the "we". You presume that the developers and
> contributors on the project just sit around and wait for people to
> submit ideas. They don't. If the developers and contributors on the
> project have an itch, they scratch it.
>
> 1,000 people could request this feature, and I don't honestly see
> Isaac, Thor, Bruce, Matt, J Donavan, Chris, Kirby, Myself, or any of
> the other regular contributors chomping at the bit waiting for people
> to demand more of their time. The developers and contributors have an
> idea for something they'd like to see mythtv do, and they implement
> it. Take for example the language support, if I recall the thread way
> back when correctly; someone said they want to see the text translated
> into abc language. Isaac said something to the effect of, then
> impliment it and send in a patch. This person did, and the rest is
> history.
>
> If MythTV was a commercial product, there would be no problem with
> asking the developers, (whom you are paying by way of buying a license
> to the product) to impliment xyz feature. But the fact is, MythTV is
> a free, open source project. If their is a preticular feature you
> want, impliment it.
>
> -dan

Dan,

Can I suggest the harsh comments would have been perfectly at home if
wishes like that were posted in the dev-list.

This is the user list.

We have power users, users and the odd luser (far fewer than many lists)

A fair few post wishes - why don't you point them at the FAQ entry that
says "the developers don't tend to read wish lists"?

David
Re: Feature request. MythVideo folder browser. [ In reply to ]
On Fri, 2004-05-21 at 06:23, Martin Saldert wrote:
> Hi all.
>
> Im not sure on were to send feature requests so i start here.
>
> I have a small problem with the MythVideo GUI.
> Its a pain to use folders.

Have you tried "Video List"? Categorize everything the way you want in
directories, and it will let you navigate the hierarchy. You could even
get really fancy and set the "Video to play after this one" for
multipart videos. Fancier still, you could set the parental level on
non-first multi-file videos and not see them at all.

- thor
Re: Feature request. MythVideo folder browser. [ In reply to ]
Im so sorry if i did anything wrong.
I did not demand anything and if it sounded like that im sorry.
All i wanted was to give a idea on how to make the MythVideo easyer to use.

/DonLKSAB

Dan Morphis wrote:

> Phill Wiggin wrote:
>
>> C'mon. It's a Feature Request, not a Feature Demand. Why get all ...
>> indignant (?) ... when someone points out something that might make
>> the project more usable? Why not just say, "If enough people need
>> this, we might add it in the future. In the mean time, you might try
>
> The problem is the "we". You presume that the developers and
> contributors on the project just sit around and wait for people to
> submit ideas. They don't. If the developers and contributors on the
> project have an itch, they scratch it.
>
> 1,000 people could request this feature, and I don't honestly see
> Isaac, Thor, Bruce, Matt, J Donavan, Chris, Kirby, Myself, or any of
> the other regular contributors chomping at the bit waiting for people
> to demand more of their time. The developers and contributors have an
> idea for something they'd like to see mythtv do, and they implement
> it. Take for example the language support, if I recall the thread way
> back when correctly; someone said they want to see the text translated
> into abc language. Isaac said something to the effect of, then
> impliment it and send in a patch. This person did, and the rest is
> history.
>
> If MythTV was a commercial product, there would be no problem with
> asking the developers, (whom you are paying by way of buying a license
> to the product) to impliment xyz feature. But the fact is, MythTV is
> a free, open source project. If their is a preticular feature you
> want, impliment it.
>
> -dan
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>



_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: Feature request. MythVideo folder browser. [ In reply to ]
Martin Saldert wrote:
> Im so sorry if i did anything wrong.

Nothing wrong. Suggestions welcome.

> I did not demand anything and if it sounded like that im sorry.
> All i wanted was to give a idea on how to make the MythVideo easyer to use.

Great. The best suggestion is if you could do it yourself, that
would be the surest way that it would get done and to your liking.
Stated more briefly, some people choose to mis interpret this
suggestion.

I don't know anything about your skills but I do know that I've
never touched this code and have no interest in how it works so
I don't think that I'll be looking in to this. If you could do
it, it would get done. Otherwise, you may have to wait until
someone who knows and cares thinks that it is a good idea and
follows through.

I hope you can do this. Good luck and remember to use "diff -u".

In the future, I may save time and simply say "send a patch" or
something.

Thanks,

-- bjm
Re: Feature request. MythVideo folder browser. [ In reply to ]
Jason Lee wrote:
>J. Donavan Stanley wrote:
>
>> bad enough to implement it. While occasionally developers see a
feature
>> request and say "hey that's a great idea" more often than not, it's
read
>> as "here's another person wanting me to spend hours working on
something
>> I'll never use". Apparently none of the folks writing code for MythTV
>
>Which is fine, but, as another poster pointed out, requests by
>non-developer users need not be greeted with such snide and curt
>responses. There's absolutely no gain for anyone in that.
>
>--
>jason lee
>Steeplesoft -- http://www.steeplesoft.com
>README.txt -- http://jason.theleehouse.net
>Bosco -- http://bosco.sourceforge.net

This issue comes up again, and once again set off by an un-helpful
reply by Donovan. It would be a lot more useful and friendly to
mythtv users to keep a list of requests, so that developers have
a target to shoot at, users have a place to see that at least someone
else may have thought of what they were thinking of, and even a list
of things that won't get implemented, because they don't fit the
desired model for mythtv. These lists should be prioritized by
the lead developer (think project manager). At the very
least point the user to the code, and give some pointers.
Giving them a 'I know everything already, and am going to ignore you'
attitude is not helping the project at all. I give an example:

I have been a developer for a long time. I thought that a good
way to get started with mythtv would be to install it and play
with it a bit. Next step: give some ideas for development, and
see what people thought. I immediately got a response from
Donovan that I considered pretty rude (go read it and judge
for yourself). It is probably the primary reason I just haven't
found the time to take the next steps: find a small project
to work on (can't do that 'cause there isn't a TODO list anywhere
to be found). Next, possibly help out in adding some testing
capability to the project, as well as code clean up (a task I don't
mind doing occasionally). Finally tackle something major. Possibly
add some system-engineering to the project eventually (one of
my current jobs).

Look around at other big open source projects. How many of them
have a feature request list? A bug-tracking system? How many
have a release plan, or at least a list of required issues
to be resolved before the next release?

It is still likely that I will work on MythTV, but as I said
above, my motivation is pretty low right now. It is a great
effort, and has come a long way. Discouraging users and
developers from contributing in _any_ way does not help
propel the project forward.

S. Baker
Re: Feature request. MythVideo folder browser. [ In reply to ]
S. Baker wrote:

>Jason Lee wrote:
>
>
>>J. Donavan Stanley wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>bad enough to implement it. While occasionally developers see a
>>>
>>>
>feature
>
>
>>>request and say "hey that's a great idea" more often than not, it's
>>>
>>>
>read
>
>
>>>as "here's another person wanting me to spend hours working on
>>>
>>>
>something
>
>
>>>I'll never use". Apparently none of the folks writing code for MythTV
>>>
>>>
>>Which is fine, but, as another poster pointed out, requests by
>>non-developer users need not be greeted with such snide and curt
>>responses. There's absolutely no gain for anyone in that.
>>
>>--
>>jason lee
>>Steeplesoft -- http://www.steeplesoft.com
>>README.txt -- http://jason.theleehouse.net
>>Bosco -- http://bosco.sourceforge.net
>>
>>
>
>This issue comes up again, and once again set off by an un-helpful
>reply by Donovan. It would be a lot more useful and friendly to
>mythtv users to keep a list of requests, so that developers have
>a target to shoot at, users have a place to see that at least someone
>else may have thought of what they were thinking of, and even a list
>of things that won't get implemented, because they don't fit the
>desired model for mythtv. These lists should be prioritized by
>the lead developer (think project manager). At the very
>least point the user to the code, and give some pointers.
>Giving them a 'I know everything already, and am going to ignore you'
>attitude is not helping the project at all. I give an example:
>
>I have been a developer for a long time. I thought that a good
>way to get started with mythtv would be to install it and play
>with it a bit. Next step: give some ideas for development, and
>see what people thought. I immediately got a response from
>Donovan that I considered pretty rude (go read it and judge
>for yourself). It is probably the primary reason I just haven't
>found the time to take the next steps: find a small project
>to work on (can't do that 'cause there isn't a TODO list anywhere
>to be found). Next, possibly help out in adding some testing
>capability to the project, as well as code clean up (a task I don't
>mind doing occasionally). Finally tackle something major. Possibly
>add some system-engineering to the project eventually (one of
>my current jobs).
>
>Look around at other big open source projects. How many of them
>have a feature request list? A bug-tracking system? How many
>have a release plan, or at least a list of required issues
>to be resolved before the next release?
>
>It is still likely that I will work on MythTV, but as I said
>above, my motivation is pretty low right now. It is a great
>effort, and has come a long way. Discouraging users and
>developers from contributing in _any_ way does not help
>propel the project forward.
>
>S. Baker
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>mythtv-users mailing list
>mythtv-users@mythtv.org
>http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
>
While I'm sure it will be met with derision, such a list has been
started at mythtv.info as was noted in another thread regarding a
feature request. It can be tweaked and moderated by participating
developers if they so choose, otherwise it can be contributed to by
anyone who has an idea to contribute. I hope to see you there and maybe
you might find something to share there as well.

Kevin

_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: Feature request. MythVideo folder browser. [ In reply to ]
On Saturday 22 May 2004 12:14 am, S. Baker wrote:
> (can't do that 'cause there isn't a TODO list anywhere
> to be found).

Bruce Markey just posted a short bug list to the -dev mailing list. A few of
the items have been issues since the last release, if anyone's looking for
something to do.

Want to know what my TODO list is?

- Add info to the bottom of the music selection screen (would have been pretty
obvious to anyone using CVS mythmusic over the past few months that this was
on there).
- Finish going over the UI to make sure all of the various patches I applied
from random people didn't make things look bad.
- Fix whatever random bugs I find in the next few days.
- Release 0.15.
- Help Thor get mfd/mfe going and integrated into 0.16.

And that's it. Want to know how long that's been my TODO list? About a month
now. Want to know why? I'm pretty damn swamped. Then, when I do have a
little time to work on Myth, I go read my friendly neighborhood -users list,
and it's full of people demanding my time and insisting that I run my project
in a certain way. (Please note, I'm not directing this at you, S. Baker).

Random feature requests are an annoyance to me, especially poorly phrased ones
-- I don't have enough time to work on what _I_ want to work on, let alone
other people's suggestions.

If you're a developer and want to work on something, don't start off with a
feature request -- if you're making the request in the first place, why not
start off with trying to add the feature yourself? An email with: 'I'd like
to make it do X, but I'm not sure exactly how to begin' would be a very
welcome change. As far as code cleanup, I'd be unlikely to accept a cleanup
patch that just came out of the blue -- I'd want to have had some contact
with the person first. I'm happy to answer development related questions on
the IRC channel, or the -dev list.

Isaac
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: Feature request. MythVideo folder browser. [ In reply to ]
On Saturday 22 May 2004 12:27 am, Kevin Kuphal wrote:
> While I'm sure it will be met with derision, such a list has been
> started at mythtv.info as was noted in another thread regarding a
> feature request. It can be tweaked and moderated by participating
> developers if they so choose, otherwise it can be contributed to by
> anyone who has an idea to contribute. I hope to see you there and maybe
> you might find something to share there as well.

No derision, but I'm starting to think you're getting advertising dollars for
each referral. It's a teensy bit annoying.

Isaac
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: Feature request. MythVideo folder browser. [ In reply to ]
Isaac Richards wrote:

>On Saturday 22 May 2004 12:27 am, Kevin Kuphal wrote:
>
>
>>While I'm sure it will be met with derision, such a list has been
>>started at mythtv.info as was noted in another thread regarding a
>>feature request. It can be tweaked and moderated by participating
>>developers if they so choose, otherwise it can be contributed to by
>>anyone who has an idea to contribute. I hope to see you there and maybe
>>you might find something to share there as well.
>>
>>
>
>No derision, but I'm starting to think you're getting advertising dollars for
>each referral. It's a teensy bit annoying.
>
>Isaac
>_______________________________________________
>mythtv-users mailing list
>mythtv-users@mythtv.org
>http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
>
>
One MythPoint for every user. I'm saving up for the bobble head. :)

Kevin

_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: Feature request. MythVideo folder browser. [ In reply to ]
You miss the point. As Bruce (and myself, and others) have pointed out;
mythtv is a project comprised of itches. If *you* have an itch, freakin
scratch it. Don't expect other people to scratch it for you. This is
NOT commercial software, where feature demands^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h
suggestions would be welcome, and accepted.

-dan

S. Baker wrote:

>Jason Lee wrote:
>
>
>>J. Donavan Stanley wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>bad enough to implement it. While occasionally developers see a
>>>
>>>
>feature
>
>
>>>request and say "hey that's a great idea" more often than not, it's
>>>
>>>
>read
>
>
>>>as "here's another person wanting me to spend hours working on
>>>
>>>
>something
>
>
>>>I'll never use". Apparently none of the folks writing code for MythTV
>>>
>>>
>>Which is fine, but, as another poster pointed out, requests by
>>non-developer users need not be greeted with such snide and curt
>>responses. There's absolutely no gain for anyone in that.
>>
>>--
>>jason lee
>>Steeplesoft -- http://www.steeplesoft.com
>>README.txt -- http://jason.theleehouse.net
>>Bosco -- http://bosco.sourceforge.net
>>
>>
>
>This issue comes up again, and once again set off by an un-helpful
>reply by Donovan. It would be a lot more useful and friendly to
>mythtv users to keep a list of requests, so that developers have
>a target to shoot at, users have a place to see that at least someone
>else may have thought of what they were thinking of, and even a list
>of things that won't get implemented, because they don't fit the
>desired model for mythtv. These lists should be prioritized by
>the lead developer (think project manager). At the very
>least point the user to the code, and give some pointers.
>Giving them a 'I know everything already, and am going to ignore you'
>attitude is not helping the project at all. I give an example:
>
>I have been a developer for a long time. I thought that a good
>way to get started with mythtv would be to install it and play
>with it a bit. Next step: give some ideas for development, and
>see what people thought. I immediately got a response from
>Donovan that I considered pretty rude (go read it and judge
>for yourself). It is probably the primary reason I just haven't
>found the time to take the next steps: find a small project
>to work on (can't do that 'cause there isn't a TODO list anywhere
>to be found). Next, possibly help out in adding some testing
>capability to the project, as well as code clean up (a task I don't
>mind doing occasionally). Finally tackle something major. Possibly
>add some system-engineering to the project eventually (one of
>my current jobs).
>
>Look around at other big open source projects. How many of them
>have a feature request list? A bug-tracking system? How many
>have a release plan, or at least a list of required issues
>to be resolved before the next release?
>
>It is still likely that I will work on MythTV, but as I said
>above, my motivation is pretty low right now. It is a great
>effort, and has come a long way. Discouraging users and
>developers from contributing in _any_ way does not help
>propel the project forward.
>
>S. Baker
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>mythtv-users mailing list
>mythtv-users@mythtv.org
>http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
>
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: Feature request. MythVideo folder browser. [ In reply to ]
On Sat, May 22, 2004 at 12:14:35AM -0400, S. Baker wrote:
> reply by Donovan. It would be a lot more useful and friendly to
> mythtv users to keep a list of requests, so that developers have
> a target to shoot at, users have a place to see that at least someone
> ...
> desired model for mythtv. These lists should be prioritized by
> the lead developer (think project manager). At the very

You still don't get it, do you? Myth is developed by the developers
for the developers(*). There is no master plan -- Myth goes in
whatever direction we feel like going when we feel like going. IOW,
if no developer is personally motivated enough to add a particular
feature, it won't get added no matter how many users want it.

(*)I don't really like to use this phrasing because I feel it connotes
too strong of a selfish attitude. Personally, I'm happy that others
can use the fruits of our labor. Furthermore, I will do what I can to
support the features I have added, the components I have adopted and
not leave users in the lurch. However, I do this in my spare time to
satisfy my own needs so I don't feel obligated to do any more than
that.

> with it a bit. Next step: give some ideas for development, and
> see what people thought. I immediately got a response from
> Donovan that I considered pretty rude (go read it and judge
> for yourself). It is probably the primary reason I just haven't

Then grow a thicker skin and don't take it personally. Hell, Isaac
royally pissed me off with his terse responses the first time I asked
questions and submitted patches. I got over it and persevered because
I really wanted to contribute and make Myth better.

David
--
David Engel
gigem@comcast.net
Re: Feature request. MythVideo folder browser. [ In reply to ]
Op zaterdag 22 mei 2004 06:52, schreef Isaac Richards:
> On Saturday 22 May 2004 12:27 am, Kevin Kuphal wrote:
> > While I'm sure it will be met with derision, such a list has been
> > started at mythtv.info as was noted in another thread regarding a
> > feature request. It can be tweaked and moderated by participating
> > developers if they so choose, otherwise it can be contributed to by
> > anyone who has an idea to contribute. I hope to see you there and maybe
> > you might find something to share there as well.
>
> No derision, but I'm starting to think you're getting advertising dollars
> for each referral. It's a teensy bit annoying.
>
> Isaac

I'm not paying him, I promise! ;-)

Henk Poley <><
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: Feature request. MythVideo folder browser. [ In reply to ]
Isaac Richards wrote:

>On Saturday 22 May 2004 12:27 am, Kevin Kuphal wrote:
>
>
>>While I'm sure it will be met with derision, such a list has been
>>started at mythtv.info as was noted in another thread regarding a
>>feature request. It can be tweaked and moderated by participating
>>developers if they so choose, otherwise it can be contributed to by
>>anyone who has an idea to contribute. I hope to see you there and maybe
>>you might find something to share there as well.
>>
>>
>
>No derision, but I'm starting to think you're getting advertising dollars for
>each referral. It's a teensy bit annoying.
>
>
to be absolutely clear - there is *NO* advertising on mythtv.info.

Of course, I could be lying - to be sure you'd have to visit us and check ;)

David
PS Not entirely true - there's a strong editorial/contributor bias for
some MythTV product...
Re: Feature request. MythVideo folder browser. [ In reply to ]
Dan Morphis wrote:

> You miss the point. As Bruce (and myself, and others) have pointed
> out; mythtv is a project comprised of itches. If *you* have an itch,
> freakin scratch it. Don't expect other people to scratch it for you.
> This is NOT commercial software, where feature demands^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h
> suggestions would be welcome, and accepted.
>
Dan, this is not directed at you but it does touch on a topic here.
Unfortunately, the developers here often miss the point from the other
side of the aisle. Many open source projects welcome feature requests,
provide open bug tracking, and many of the other features that were
mentioned, and while to Isaac and others at the core this might be their
baby and they do it for their own enjoyment, this project is so well
developed and exceptionally coded that it has fostered a larger
community outside of that. It is that community that seems to be either
ignored or put down when they cannot or will not contribute code.

What is more disheartening is that these same people that chide end
users because they cannot contribute, are seemingly willing to be
downright hostile to anyone, developer or user, who seeks to fill the
gap between developers and end users by providing a support system that
in all actuality could reduce the "load" on the developers by organizing
user input. Unfortunately they see this as an assault on *their*
project and not a positive contribution. It would seem more beneficial
if they could see that everyone here is trying to better this project in
various ways. People asking for bug tracking or a particular feature is
not an attempt to demand more work from the developers, but to give
direction to a project that many people feel very closely attached to
because unlike most open source project, this one sits in their living
room, is used by their families, and has a closer place to them than a
web browser or MP3 player on their computer. These enhancements could
very well bring more developers forward instead of discouraging
contributors by giving them impression that the core team here isn't
interested in anything but their own itches.

And don't misinterpret this, I have contributed code to the project, I
do understand that no one wants to spend their free time working but
instead codes from enjoyment and what they enjoy may not be in line with
the users. But please, no one should shut the door on contributers here
because it doesn't fit *their* vision of the project. By putting this
out in the open people have been invited to come in. By putting out
releases, non-developing users are encouraged to use the product. I
just think that it shouldn't stop there. This project is too good to be
seen by users as inaccessible or discouraging to their input.

Kevin

_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: Feature request. MythVideo folder browser. [ In reply to ]
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Donavan,

~ Wow, I'm baffled by your response. I could be wrong on some
points, but here goes:

Users got irate because of the _way_ developers said "contribute code"
it was rude and unhelpful.

I haven't seen any user get mad that developers haven't implemented
their ideas... By and large, users understand that devs aren't going
to code anything they're not interested in.

The wiki suggestion list was a good idea. Unfortunately, Isaac has
made it clear that he has no interest in the wiki, so users likely
feel compelled to post suggestions to the user list where he (and the
other devs) will see them.

And we appreciate the work you do when you find user requests
interesting. However, if no one had bothered making those requests
(and not submitting code), would you have thought of them and worked
on them? Have you _never_ found a fresh thought in a user request?
.... This is the usefulness of requests.

I think you misread (or I mistyped) why my opinion falls into this
argument. It has nothing to do with whether the software works. I
was just trying to say that if users' opinions are (or seem to be)
unwanted by the devs, why should I give ideas on what could make the
software better? In the opensource community, it's generally assumed
that developers want their project to reach as wide an audience as
possible. Generally, this is done by feature requests that get worked
on whenever the developers feel like it (if at all, granted). If you
don't want my input, I have no steak in this projects' success. In
that case, why would a user not look for another, more user-oriented
software? At present, the alternatives to Myth (linux-based) aren't
generally as far along as Myth (which is why I'm here). However, if
the other projects listen to their users, it's possible that in the
future, they'll surpass Myth. (This is no kind of threat, just a
prediction.)

In summary, here's what I got from your reply:

Users get pissy when devs don't jump on their requests. (I haven't
seen evidence of this, but I could have missed something.)

Developers do care about user requests, just not as much as our own
ideas. (Devs don't appear interested in user requests, they nearly
always are responded to with a "send in code and stop bitching" type
of reply.)

Developers will only work on user requests when _they_ feel like it.
(Granted, and that's the way it should be.)

If you don't like Myth, go use something else. (Of course I could do
that, but I actually _do_ like Myth. I just take exception to the
attitude of the devs when a user submits a request.)

Oh, and for clarification's sake, _I_ haven't submitted any user
requests, so if I stop using Myth, it won't be because the devs
haven't bent to my will. It's much more likely it'll be because I'd
rather support a more user-centric project. For the time being,
though, I plan on sticking with Myth in the hopes things will get better.

Isaac, I agree with you. This thread has gone on long enough (too
long). In the interest of letting it die, I won't respond to any
responses to this, regardless of how much I want to.

- --Phill W.

J. Donavan Stanley wrote:

| Phillip Wiggin wrote:
|
|> Why don't you just take a step back and take a pill? How,
|> precisely, does "we might add it" mean "we're sitting around
|> waiting on requests"? To me, it sounds like "if we have spare
|> time and find your problem interesting, we might look at it".
|> Scratch your own damned itches, and assuming not all the MythTV
|> developers are as cranky as you, maybe (I say MAYBE) someone else
|> will look at feature requests and find something that interests
|> them.
|>
|>
|
| You know, we only start getting cranky when people like you get all
| indignant when a feature request is met with a reminder that code
| speaks louder than words.
|
|
|
|> Dan, at _no_ point did I say _anything_ about _any_ of the
|> developers "chomoping at the bit waiting for people to demand
|> more of their time". These people aren't "demanding", they're
|> "asking".
|>
|>
| And they simply get told that in all likelihood their request isn't
| going to be honored unless it's an important issue to a developer.
|
|
|
|> Huzzah for lanugage support! It's _fantastic_ that someone
|> decided to implement something on their own! I'm all in favor of
|> it. The person who implemented it did a wonderful thing by
|> contributing. However, not all people have the ability to code
|> their desires.
|>
|>
| And those people should get used to not having their desires met.
|
|
|> As to the supposition that users shouldn't show interest in the
|> wider acceptance of a project (by way of feature requests) unless
|> they pay for it... I'm at a loss; I truely am. What's the
|> problem with someone saying "It sure would be nice if..."?
|>
|>
| Not a thing. What's the problem with reminding them that's it's
| probably not going to happen?
|
|> I'll tell you what _I_ think the problem is (and this could be
|> way off base). I think the problem is your bad attitude. You
|> think that everyone that has an idea for Myth is out to steal
|> _your_ time from you. If you'd stop to think about it, you might
|> realize that these people have _no_ power over you. If you don't
|> want to implement someone's ideaa, then don't! But, what good
|> does it do to discourage user suggestions?
|
| Hell I reccomended to the wiki folks that they start a user
| requests section (instead of putting user request in the how to
| develop for mythtv section) so developers could look over it if
| they were bored and looking for something to do.
|
|> You make the users feel like none of the developers cares one
|> whit whether anyone uses this software.. Maybe that's the case.
|> Maybe all the developers are just like you and don't care at all
|> what users want.
|
| We do care, and I personly have worked on user requests in the
| past. But user requests take a back seat to developer's itches.
| That's just the way it is.
|
|> Maybe they (the developers) want a "good 'ole boy's club" piece
|> of software that's only used by the 8 or 9 devs. Hell, I don't
|> know. But you're sure doing a good job of making _me_ think I've
|> no nead of being subscribed to the users list. If the OPs
|> opinion isn't wanted, why would mine be? If my opinions aren't
|> even of _interest_ to the developers, obviously the software
|> wasn't meant for me.
|>
|>
| At want point did your opinion factor into whether the software
| work or not?
|
|
|> There are alternatives to MythTV. I hope you learn to value your
|> users before they start abandoning Myth in favor of the other
|> projects that just _might_ be a little more welcoming to ideas.
|> (No, not demands... I-D-E-A-S)
|>
|>
| Oh for crying out loud. Please by all means install Windows, and
| one of the PVR packages and see how they compare. Then try and
| feed feature requests to *their* dev staff and see where you get.
| You might a "thank you for your input" form letter if you're lucky.
|
|
|
|> I realize this seems a bit confrontational, but you seem to have
|> misconceptions about the non-devs. They're not your boss,
|> project manager, or even customer. They're the people that see
|> your work and value it, and they'd like to see it even better so
|> that it becomes even _more_ popular and useful.
|>
|>
| If you're willing to stop using Myth because a developer wouldn't
| implement your feature, and told you as much then you've got
| issues.
|
|> Dan, I really hope you get a reality check and realize we (the
|> users) really do appreciate your work and are on your side.
|
| we (the developers and contributors) thank you.
|
|> We (the users) would like to see other things integrated, but we
|
| As would we (the developers and contributors) just not necessarily
| the same things you (the users) would.
|
|> (the users) understand that our suggestions aren't high on your
|> priority list (if even on your list at all... apparently they're
|> not on _your_ list).
|
| Then why do you (the users) get all pissy when we say that's not
| likely your request will be fulfilled unless it's important enough
| to a developer.
|
|> We (the users) accept the fact that you (the devs) won't code on
|> things you don't find interesting or useful to you, we (the
|> users) don't _expect_ you to.
|
| Then why do you (the users) get all pissy when we say that's not
| likely your request will be fulfilled unless it's important enough
| to a developer.
|
|> We (the potential devs) (I'd been giving some thoughts to
|> contributing code myself, before all this nastyness started.) can
|> see your opinions and how you're regarded by them (the users).
|
| Nobody was nasty to any user *until* said users started bitching
| about being told that feature requests without code to back them up
| are frowned on.
|
|
| Here's the kicker, as I was mowing my lawn I started thinking about
| how to implement this, as well as another MythVideo related
| request from a use in #mythtv-users and had planned on starting on
| it tonight. _______________________________________________
| mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org
| http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFAr26vBaJEzZdnEPsRAuiTAKCHNnqQl2UEJkDqpsQUCTniJIiWPgCfcYnI
it7oMQU4TeFHMrB96vDbuhY=
=dBOM
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

1 2  View All