Mailing List Archive

Unicable problems
Hi everybody,

after years using my mythbox with great success and relatively little
suffering, I had to move my server to a location a bit further away from
the sat dish and there is only one cable available so I decided to
switch to unicable and this is quite a headache... I think I have
several problems, I am not even sure where to start. Maybe I first
describe what I have:

I have a Selfsat H50DCSS antenna - a flat satellite antenna with
incorporated 2x legacy and 1x unicable connections.

I have the unicable connection fed through the window and there
connected to the inhose coax cable that originally was laid for cable
tv. At the location of the receiver at the other end of that cable, I
have a 1-to-4 splitter (alternatively 1-to-2), connected to my SAT
inputs - a digital devices cine S2 V6.5 card plus one DuoFlex S2
extension card (which does not seem to work, I keep that pending for
later).

I am also running four loopback devices (link 0:4, 1:5, 2:6, 3:7, this
is working) .

Then I have four input cards defined, one for each loopback device, from
adapter 4 to 7.

Card 1: /dev/dvb/adapter4/frontent0; type DVB-S, delivery system dvb-s2,
DiSEqC Unicable (Userband 0, 1210MHz, Pin -1, repetitions I tried 1, or
9, or 15, works all the same), type LNB (Universal-LNB (Europe))

Card 2: same for adapter 5, except Userband 1, 1420.

Card 3: same for adapter 6, except Userband 2, 1680,

Card 4: same for adapter 7, except Userband 3, 2040.


Video Source, one defined. Name "Unicable". Only EIT, frequencies
europe-west, etc. etc.


Input connections: Card 1 and 2 connected to unicable, card 3 and 4 for
now to "nothing", for later trouble shooting (these to cards error out,
the other two cards show as available in the frontend).

Input connections are configured fast tuning "never".

I think that is a relatively complete description of the setup.


Scanning for channels was quite difficult - I could never do a complete
scan (tuned), so I switched to a legacy input on the antenna, then I
scanned, and once I had the transponders, I could switch back to
unicable and do a full scan of all known transponders. I would get about
600 channels less and many transponders which would have signal on the
legacy output of the antenna do not have signal on the Unicable output,
but nothing important seems to be missing, so that is OK for now. I also
have optimized the antenna orientation with a sat finder, I think that
made it much better. With the 4x Splitter while scanning, I get about
64% Signal and S/N of about 25%, if that means anything. Reception seems
to be stable for now.

Several things seem to not work very well, but right now only one
problem is consistant and (finally, thanks for reading up to here) I
dare to ask for help:

It seems I can only watch or record one channel even though I have two
working cards. Once a program is recording, I can still enter live tv, I
see the same channel as is recording, I can switch between the two
sources (Called SAT#1 and SAT#2), but I cannot change channel, neither
on the card busy with the recording (I have configured the input to
allow for 2 concurrent recordings, so I should be able to switch to
another channel on the multiplex). nor can I change the channel on the
second card, it will also only tune to the channel that is currently
recorded on the other card.

One solution that occurs to me is to create another video source for the
second card - I have not tried, I do not know whether that would work
but that was not necessary in the past, one video source would work for
several tuner cards. So I hope to get a better suggestion from you.

Thanks a lot in advance!

Matthias









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Re: Unicable problems [ In reply to ]
On Wed, 18 May 2022 at 23:15, Matthias Thyroff <matthias@thyroff.net> wrote:

> Hi everybody,
>
> after years using my mythbox with great success and relatively little
> suffering, I had to move my server to a location a bit further away from
> the sat dish and there is only one cable available so I decided to
> switch to unicable and this is quite a headache... I think I have
> several problems, I am not even sure where to start. Maybe I first
> describe what I have:
>
> I have a Selfsat H50DCSS antenna - a flat satellite antenna with
> incorporated 2x legacy and 1x unicable connections.
>
> I have the unicable connection fed through the window and there
> connected to the inhose coax cable that originally was laid for cable
> tv. At the location of the receiver at the other end of that cable, I
> have a 1-to-4 splitter (alternatively 1-to-2), connected to my SAT
> inputs - a digital devices cine S2 V6.5 card plus one DuoFlex S2
> extension card (which does not seem to work, I keep that pending for
> later).
>
> I am also running four loopback devices (link 0:4, 1:5, 2:6, 3:7, this
> is working) .
>
> Then I have four input cards defined, one for each loopback device, from
> adapter 4 to 7.
>
> Card 1: /dev/dvb/adapter4/frontent0; type DVB-S, delivery system dvb-s2,
> DiSEqC Unicable (Userband 0, 1210MHz, Pin -1, repetitions I tried 1, or
> 9, or 15, works all the same), type LNB (Universal-LNB (Europe))
>
> Card 2: same for adapter 5, except Userband 1, 1420.
>
> Card 3: same for adapter 6, except Userband 2, 1680,
>
> Card 4: same for adapter 7, except Userband 3, 2040.
>
>
> Video Source, one defined. Name "Unicable". Only EIT, frequencies
> europe-west, etc. etc.
>
>
> Input connections: Card 1 and 2 connected to unicable, card 3 and 4 for
> now to "nothing", for later trouble shooting (these to cards error out,
> the other two cards show as available in the frontend).
>
> Input connections are configured fast tuning "never".
>
> I think that is a relatively complete description of the setup.
>
>
> Scanning for channels was quite difficult - I could never do a complete
> scan (tuned), so I switched to a legacy input on the antenna, then I
> scanned, and once I had the transponders, I could switch back to
> unicable and do a full scan of all known transponders. I would get about
> 600 channels less and many transponders which would have signal on the
> legacy output of the antenna do not have signal on the Unicable output,
> but nothing important seems to be missing, so that is OK for now. I also
> have optimized the antenna orientation with a sat finder, I think that
> made it much better. With the 4x Splitter while scanning, I get about
> 64% Signal and S/N of about 25%, if that means anything. Reception seems
> to be stable for now.
>
> Several things seem to not work very well, but right now only one
> problem is consistant and (finally, thanks for reading up to here) I
> dare to ask for help:
>
> It seems I can only watch or record one channel even though I have two
> working cards. Once a program is recording, I can still enter live tv, I
> see the same channel as is recording, I can switch between the two
> sources (Called SAT#1 and SAT#2), but I cannot change channel, neither
> on the card busy with the recording (I have configured the input to
> allow for 2 concurrent recordings, so I should be able to switch to
> another channel on the multiplex). nor can I change the channel on the
> second card, it will also only tune to the channel that is currently
> recorded on the other card.
>
> One solution that occurs to me is to create another video source for the
> second card - I have not tried, I do not know whether that would work
> but that was not necessary in the past, one video source would work for
> several tuner cards. So I hope to get a better suggestion from you.
>
> Thanks a lot in advance!
>
> Matthias
>
>
> Could it be that both your tuners are configured to use the same
userband/frequency? That would explain the behavior of your tuners.
A thing to keep in mind is that the GUI for this part of the configuration
is really crappy.
As described in the DiSEqC part of the Channel Scanning wiki, you will need
to do an escape/save after every configuration step and then do the next
configuration step, otherwise configured values are sometimes not stored.
So I suggest to check the userband/frequency configuration of each tuner.

Klaas.
Re: Unicable problems [ In reply to ]
On Wed, 25 May 2022 at 07:52, Klaas de Waal <klaas.de.waal@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, 18 May 2022 at 23:15, Matthias Thyroff <matthias@thyroff.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi everybody,
>>
>> after years using my mythbox with great success and relatively little
>> suffering, I had to move my server to a location a bit further away from
>> the sat dish and there is only one cable available so I decided to
>> switch to unicable and this is quite a headache... I think I have
>> several problems, I am not even sure where to start. Maybe I first
>> describe what I have:
>>
>> I have a Selfsat H50DCSS antenna - a flat satellite antenna with
>> incorporated 2x legacy and 1x unicable connections.
>>
>> I have the unicable connection fed through the window and there
>> connected to the inhose coax cable that originally was laid for cable
>> tv. At the location of the receiver at the other end of that cable, I
>> have a 1-to-4 splitter (alternatively 1-to-2), connected to my SAT
>> inputs - a digital devices cine S2 V6.5 card plus one DuoFlex S2
>> extension card (which does not seem to work, I keep that pending for
>> later).
>>
>> I am also running four loopback devices (link 0:4, 1:5, 2:6, 3:7, this
>> is working) .
>>
>> Then I have four input cards defined, one for each loopback device, from
>> adapter 4 to 7.
>>
>> Card 1: /dev/dvb/adapter4/frontent0; type DVB-S, delivery system dvb-s2,
>> DiSEqC Unicable (Userband 0, 1210MHz, Pin -1, repetitions I tried 1, or
>> 9, or 15, works all the same), type LNB (Universal-LNB (Europe))
>>
>> Card 2: same for adapter 5, except Userband 1, 1420.
>>
>> Card 3: same for adapter 6, except Userband 2, 1680,
>>
>> Card 4: same for adapter 7, except Userband 3, 2040.
>>
>>
>> Video Source, one defined. Name "Unicable". Only EIT, frequencies
>> europe-west, etc. etc.
>>
>>
>> Input connections: Card 1 and 2 connected to unicable, card 3 and 4 for
>> now to "nothing", for later trouble shooting (these to cards error out,
>> the other two cards show as available in the frontend).
>>
>> Input connections are configured fast tuning "never".
>>
>> I think that is a relatively complete description of the setup.
>>
>>
>> Scanning for channels was quite difficult - I could never do a complete
>> scan (tuned), so I switched to a legacy input on the antenna, then I
>> scanned, and once I had the transponders, I could switch back to
>> unicable and do a full scan of all known transponders. I would get about
>> 600 channels less and many transponders which would have signal on the
>> legacy output of the antenna do not have signal on the Unicable output,
>> but nothing important seems to be missing, so that is OK for now. I also
>> have optimized the antenna orientation with a sat finder, I think that
>> made it much better. With the 4x Splitter while scanning, I get about
>> 64% Signal and S/N of about 25%, if that means anything. Reception seems
>> to be stable for now.
>>
>> Several things seem to not work very well, but right now only one
>> problem is consistant and (finally, thanks for reading up to here) I
>> dare to ask for help:
>>
>> It seems I can only watch or record one channel even though I have two
>> working cards. Once a program is recording, I can still enter live tv, I
>> see the same channel as is recording, I can switch between the two
>> sources (Called SAT#1 and SAT#2), but I cannot change channel, neither
>> on the card busy with the recording (I have configured the input to
>> allow for 2 concurrent recordings, so I should be able to switch to
>> another channel on the multiplex). nor can I change the channel on the
>> second card, it will also only tune to the channel that is currently
>> recorded on the other card.
>>
>> One solution that occurs to me is to create another video source for the
>> second card - I have not tried, I do not know whether that would work
>> but that was not necessary in the past, one video source would work for
>> several tuner cards. So I hope to get a better suggestion from you.
>>
>> Thanks a lot in advance!
>>
>> Matthias
>>
>>
>> Could it be that both your tuners are configured to use the same
> userband/frequency? That would explain the behavior of your tuners.
> A thing to keep in mind is that the GUI for this part of the configuration
> is really crappy.
> As described in the DiSEqC part of the Channel Scanning wiki, you will
> need to do an escape/save after every configuration step and then do the
> next configuration step, otherwise configured values are sometimes not
> stored.
> So I suggest to check the userband/frequency configuration of each tuner.
>
> Klaas.
>
>
>
I have some results after first testing with my new Unicable LNB pointed to
Astra-2 28.2E.
The LNB documentation counts the userbands from 1 upwards, e.g. userband 1
is 1210MHz. MythTV allows configuring from 0 upwards; I can receive
something if I configure userband 0 and 1210MHz, and with userband 1 and
1420MHz etc. This could be a bug in MythTV but for now it works.
Selecting the correct LNB type is still a bit fuzzy. As I understand it,
with Unicable you send the frequency to the LNB and then the LNB tunes to
that frequency and downmixes the received signal back to the selected
userband. This means that dealing with the details on how to actually tune
a specific satellite signal is hidden in the LNB, only the frequency should
be needed.
With the default "Universal" I get no results at all. I suspect that there
is then a conflict in LNB settings between the Unicable part of the LNB and
the tuner card.
I get the best results now with LNB configured as "LNB Preset: Custom" and
"LNB Type: Legacy".
Can you experiment with this and post the results?

Klaas.
Re: Unicable problems [ In reply to ]
Klaas, Matthias,

I have unicable system @my home working perfectly last 6 years (4 tuners, 35-50 recordings per day; usually 3..8 concurrent recordings tested 16 w/o any problems; months without failed recording)

IIRC unicable setup is very simple:

in mythtv-setup
1. select "2. capture cards"
2. select "new capture card" then press Enter
3. go by arrow keys to "New Capture Card"
4. press right arrow
5. select DVB-T/S/C...., press enter
6. press right arrow
7. go down by arrow keys to "DiSEqC...", press right arrow
8. in Device type select "Unicable", press enter
9. press right arrow, you should see "Unicable configuration"
10. press right arrow to enter Unicable config
11. set "Userband" to 0 (for your first tuner, 1 for second etc) (*)
12. set "Frequency" to 1210 for your first tuner (1420 for second, 1680 for third; 2040 for 4th)
13. leave "pincode" to -1
14. "Repeat Count" - start with 3 (**)
15. Set "Device Type" to LNB
16. press Esc, then select "save"

You can repeat steeps 2...15 for rest of yours tuners - but remember set appropriate values in steeps: 11 and 12

(*)
Some unicable vendors are using enumeration starting from 0, some others starting from 1
Try first with 0 and if your first tuner will not work ok - try starting with 1


(**)
Some unicable vendors - for reliable operation - requiring multiple resending tune commands to get reliable each userband PLL setting in unicable unit at myth tuning time.
This is case i.e. with mine Inverto unicable unit: when myth BE sends single tune command - i have 5-10% of failed tunings.
But when I do 3 sends (send + 2 resends) - then failed tunings are goinf down to approx 0.01%.
Some time ago - i addeed to mythv capability of resends: when you set repeat count in steep 14 to value above 10, myth will enter resending mode with N-10 resends. So i.e. setting to 13 will cause 3 sends of tune command at tuning stage

Happy watching!



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Re: Unicable problems [ In reply to ]
> Wiadomo?? napisana przez Matthias Thyroff <matthias@thyroff.net> w dniu 28.05.2022, o godz. 21:09:
>
> Am 28.05.22 um 16:24 schrieb Piotr Oniszczuk:
>> Klaas, Matthias,
>>
>> I have unicable system @my home working perfectly last 6 years (4 tuners, 35-50 recordings per day; usually 3..8 concurrent recordings tested 16 w/o any problems; months without failed recording)
>>
>> IIRC unicable setup is very simple:
>>
>> in mythtv-setup
>> 1. select "2. capture cards"
>> 2. select "new capture card" then press Enter
>> 3. go by arrow keys to "New Capture Card"
>> 4. press right arrow
>> 5. select DVB-T/S/C...., press enter
>> 6. press right arrow
>> 7. go down by arrow keys to "DiSEqC...", press right arrow
>> 8. in Device type select "Unicable", press enter
>> 9. press right arrow, you should see "Unicable configuration"
>> 10. press right arrow to enter Unicable config
>> 11. set "Userband" to 0 (for your first tuner, 1 for second etc) (*)
>> 12. set "Frequency" to 1210 for your first tuner (1420 for second, 1680 for third; 2040 for 4th)
>> 13. leave "pincode" to -1
>> 14. "Repeat Count" - start with 3 (**)
>> 15. Set "Device Type" to LNB
>> 16. press Esc, then select "save"
>>
>> You can repeat steeps 2...15 for rest of yours tuners - but remember set appropriate values in steeps: 11 and 12
>>
>> (*)
>> Some unicable vendors are using enumeration starting from 0, some others starting from 1
>> Try first with 0 and if your first tuner will not work ok - try starting with 1
>>
>>
>> (**)
>> Some unicable vendors - for reliable operation - requiring multiple resending tune commands to get reliable each userband PLL setting in unicable unit at myth tuning time.
>> This is case i.e. with mine Inverto unicable unit: when myth BE sends single tune command - i have 5-10% of failed tunings.
>> But when I do 3 sends (send + 2 resends) - then failed tunings are goinf down to approx 0.01%.
>> Some time ago - i addeed to mythv capability of resends: when you set repeat count in steep 14 to value above 10, myth will enter resending mode with N-10 resends. So i.e. setting to 13 will cause 3 sends of tune command at tuning stage
>>
>> Happy watching!
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mythtv-users mailing list
>> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
>> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
>> MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org
>>
> Hi Piotr,
>
> that gives me hope! :-)
>
> I have done all as you say and man I have a hard time getting it to work. I have tried back and forth a million things and times, and still I can't rule out (1) failing cards (2) failing antenna (3) failing cables (4) failing drivers (5) failing mythtv
>
> because it is so inconsistent. When it works, as you say, tuning fails frequently especially at the first tune, but resending 9 or 15 times has not done anything, it seems I need to change channel back and forth to get a lock.
>
> What cards are you using?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Matthias
>
>

Matthias,

Ok - then indeed we have checklist to do:
(1) failing antenna
(2) failing cables
(3) failing cards
(4) failing drivers
(5) failing mythtv DVB subsys
(6) failing LNB unicable implementation
(7) failing mythtv unicable implementation


Without steep-by-steep elimination we will not able to find root case and fix.

Lest start with list+order like i'm proposing

(1) failing antena/ (2)failing cables:
can yo go for test with no Unicable and make sure LNB+dish are positioned ok?
Ideally will be i.e. with borrowed SAT receiver and: tune to SAT channel + verify signal strength + S/N are good enough for reliable reception?
(borrow receiver from friend, neighbourhood, etc)

If above will show you all is ok - the we can go with (3)
Install on you BE software to watch SAT TV.
best will be sw. provided by card vendor eventually any well known SAT watching software.
Alternatively You can try with tools scanning SAT transponders:
https://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Frequency_scan#Comparison_of_DVB_frequency_scanning_commandline_utilities
https://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Scan
https://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Dvbscan

If above will be ok - we already know: (1)/(2)/(3) are ok.
If in above test you will use target kernel+target card drivers - then steep (4) also can be marked as ok.

So we can go with (5):
configure mythtv to use standard LNB (no any Unicable) and try tune to some FTA channels.

If (5) will go ok - then we can try (7): setup myth to use unicable and try.

If it will fail then:

-borrow somewhere SAT receiver capable to do Unicable, configure Unicable and verify is it working OK.

If such SAT receiver will work - then out root cause is (7)
If such SAT receiver will now work - then out root cause is (6)

let me know how it goes for you!







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Re: Unicable problems [ In reply to ]
On Sun, 29 May 2022 at 12:34, Piotr Oniszczuk <piotr.oniszczuk@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
> > Wiadomo?? napisana przez Matthias Thyroff <matthias@thyroff.net> w dniu
> 28.05.2022, o godz. 21:09:
> >
> > Am 28.05.22 um 16:24 schrieb Piotr Oniszczuk:
> >> Klaas, Matthias,
> >>
> >> I have unicable system @my home working perfectly last 6 years (4
> tuners, 35-50 recordings per day; usually 3..8 concurrent recordings tested
> 16 w/o any problems; months without failed recording)
> >>
> >> IIRC unicable setup is very simple:
> >>
> >> in mythtv-setup
> >> 1. select "2. capture cards"
> >> 2. select "new capture card" then press Enter
> >> 3. go by arrow keys to "New Capture Card"
> >> 4. press right arrow
> >> 5. select DVB-T/S/C...., press enter
> >> 6. press right arrow
> >> 7. go down by arrow keys to "DiSEqC...", press right arrow
> >> 8. in Device type select "Unicable", press enter
> >> 9. press right arrow, you should see "Unicable configuration"
> >> 10. press right arrow to enter Unicable config
> >> 11. set "Userband" to 0 (for your first tuner, 1 for second etc) (*)
> >> 12. set "Frequency" to 1210 for your first tuner (1420 for second, 1680
> for third; 2040 for 4th)
> >> 13. leave "pincode" to -1
> >> 14. "Repeat Count" - start with 3 (**)
> >> 15. Set "Device Type" to LNB
> >> 16. press Esc, then select "save"
> >>
> >> You can repeat steeps 2...15 for rest of yours tuners - but remember
> set appropriate values in steeps: 11 and 12
> >>
> >> (*)
> >> Some unicable vendors are using enumeration starting from 0, some
> others starting from 1
> >> Try first with 0 and if your first tuner will not work ok - try
> starting with 1
> >>
> >>
> >> (**)
> >> Some unicable vendors - for reliable operation - requiring multiple
> resending tune commands to get reliable each userband PLL setting in
> unicable unit at myth tuning time.
> >> This is case i.e. with mine Inverto unicable unit: when myth BE sends
> single tune command - i have 5-10% of failed tunings.
> >> But when I do 3 sends (send + 2 resends) - then failed tunings are
> goinf down to approx 0.01%.
> >> Some time ago - i addeed to mythv capability of resends: when you set
> repeat count in steep 14 to value above 10, myth will enter resending mode
> with N-10 resends. So i.e. setting to 13 will cause 3 sends of tune command
> at tuning stage
> >>
> >> Happy watching!
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> mythtv-users mailing list
> >> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> >> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> >> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
> >> MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org
> >>
> > Hi Piotr,
> >
> > that gives me hope! :-)
> >
> > I have done all as you say and man I have a hard time getting it to
> work. I have tried back and forth a million things and times, and still I
> can't rule out (1) failing cards (2) failing antenna (3) failing cables (4)
> failing drivers (5) failing mythtv
> >
> > because it is so inconsistent. When it works, as you say, tuning fails
> frequently especially at the first tune, but resending 9 or 15 times has
> not done anything, it seems I need to change channel back and forth to get
> a lock.
> >
> > What cards are you using?
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Matthias
> >
> >
>
> Matthias,
>
> Ok - then indeed we have checklist to do:
> (1) failing antenna
> (2) failing cables
> (3) failing cards
> (4) failing drivers
> (5) failing mythtv DVB subsys
> (6) failing LNB unicable implementation
> (7) failing mythtv unicable implementation
>
>
> Without steep-by-steep elimination we will not able to find root case and
> fix.
>
> Lest start with list+order like i'm proposing
>
> (1) failing antena/ (2)failing cables:
> can yo go for test with no Unicable and make sure LNB+dish are positioned
> ok?
> Ideally will be i.e. with borrowed SAT receiver and: tune to SAT channel +
> verify signal strength + S/N are good enough for reliable reception?
> (borrow receiver from friend, neighbourhood, etc)
>
> If above will show you all is ok - the we can go with (3)
> Install on you BE software to watch SAT TV.
> best will be sw. provided by card vendor eventually any well known SAT
> watching software.
> Alternatively You can try with tools scanning SAT transponders:
>
> https://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Frequency_scan#Comparison_of_DVB_frequency_scanning_commandline_utilities
> https://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Scan
> https://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Dvbscan
>
> If above will be ok - we already know: (1)/(2)/(3) are ok.
> If in above test you will use target kernel+target card drivers - then
> steep (4) also can be marked as ok.
>
> So we can go with (5):
> configure mythtv to use standard LNB (no any Unicable) and try tune to
> some FTA channels.
>
> If (5) will go ok - then we can try (7): setup myth to use unicable and
> try.
>
> If it will fail then:
>
> -borrow somewhere SAT receiver capable to do Unicable, configure Unicable
> and verify is it working OK.
>
> If such SAT receiver will work - then out root cause is (7)
> If such SAT receiver will now work - then out root cause is (6)
>
> let me know how it goes for you!
>
>
> I have my setup with a "DUR-line UK 124-3L dCSS - Unicable LNB" working
correctly! I can now make a perfect channel scan with mythtv-setup.
The difference is that I replaced the single tuner DVBSky S950-C card with
a dual tuner DVBSky S952 V3.
At this moment I only use one tuner of the two available; when the new
splitter arrives (special for Unicable, DC coupled and 5-2400MHz) I will
test with both tuners.
For now it looks that the card does make the difference.

Klaas.
Re: Unicable problems [ In reply to ]
On Sun, 29 May 2022 at 20:12, Klaas de Waal <klaas.de.waal@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, 29 May 2022 at 12:34, Piotr Oniszczuk <piotr.oniszczuk@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> > Wiadomo?? napisana przez Matthias Thyroff <matthias@thyroff.net> w
>> dniu 28.05.2022, o godz. 21:09:
>> >
>> > Am 28.05.22 um 16:24 schrieb Piotr Oniszczuk:
>> >> Klaas, Matthias,
>> >>
>> >> I have unicable system @my home working perfectly last 6 years (4
>> tuners, 35-50 recordings per day; usually 3..8 concurrent recordings tested
>> 16 w/o any problems; months without failed recording)
>> >>
>> >> IIRC unicable setup is very simple:
>> >>
>> >> in mythtv-setup
>> >> 1. select "2. capture cards"
>> >> 2. select "new capture card" then press Enter
>> >> 3. go by arrow keys to "New Capture Card"
>> >> 4. press right arrow
>> >> 5. select DVB-T/S/C...., press enter
>> >> 6. press right arrow
>> >> 7. go down by arrow keys to "DiSEqC...", press right arrow
>> >> 8. in Device type select "Unicable", press enter
>> >> 9. press right arrow, you should see "Unicable configuration"
>> >> 10. press right arrow to enter Unicable config
>> >> 11. set "Userband" to 0 (for your first tuner, 1 for second etc) (*)
>> >> 12. set "Frequency" to 1210 for your first tuner (1420 for second,
>> 1680 for third; 2040 for 4th)
>> >> 13. leave "pincode" to -1
>> >> 14. "Repeat Count" - start with 3 (**)
>> >> 15. Set "Device Type" to LNB
>> >> 16. press Esc, then select "save"
>> >>
>> >> You can repeat steeps 2...15 for rest of yours tuners - but remember
>> set appropriate values in steeps: 11 and 12
>> >>
>> >> (*)
>> >> Some unicable vendors are using enumeration starting from 0, some
>> others starting from 1
>> >> Try first with 0 and if your first tuner will not work ok - try
>> starting with 1
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> (**)
>> >> Some unicable vendors - for reliable operation - requiring multiple
>> resending tune commands to get reliable each userband PLL setting in
>> unicable unit at myth tuning time.
>> >> This is case i.e. with mine Inverto unicable unit: when myth BE sends
>> single tune command - i have 5-10% of failed tunings.
>> >> But when I do 3 sends (send + 2 resends) - then failed tunings are
>> goinf down to approx 0.01%.
>> >> Some time ago - i addeed to mythv capability of resends: when you set
>> repeat count in steep 14 to value above 10, myth will enter resending mode
>> with N-10 resends. So i.e. setting to 13 will cause 3 sends of tune command
>> at tuning stage
>> >>
>> >> Happy watching!
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> mythtv-users mailing list
>> >> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
>> >> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>> >> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
>> >> MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org
>> >>
>> > Hi Piotr,
>> >
>> > that gives me hope! :-)
>> >
>> > I have done all as you say and man I have a hard time getting it to
>> work. I have tried back and forth a million things and times, and still I
>> can't rule out (1) failing cards (2) failing antenna (3) failing cables (4)
>> failing drivers (5) failing mythtv
>> >
>> > because it is so inconsistent. When it works, as you say, tuning fails
>> frequently especially at the first tune, but resending 9 or 15 times has
>> not done anything, it seems I need to change channel back and forth to get
>> a lock.
>> >
>> > What cards are you using?
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> >
>> > Matthias
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Matthias,
>>
>> Ok - then indeed we have checklist to do:
>> (1) failing antenna
>> (2) failing cables
>> (3) failing cards
>> (4) failing drivers
>> (5) failing mythtv DVB subsys
>> (6) failing LNB unicable implementation
>> (7) failing mythtv unicable implementation
>>
>>
>> Without steep-by-steep elimination we will not able to find root case and
>> fix.
>>
>> Lest start with list+order like i'm proposing
>>
>> (1) failing antena/ (2)failing cables:
>> can yo go for test with no Unicable and make sure LNB+dish are positioned
>> ok?
>> Ideally will be i.e. with borrowed SAT receiver and: tune to SAT channel
>> + verify signal strength + S/N are good enough for reliable reception?
>> (borrow receiver from friend, neighbourhood, etc)
>>
>> If above will show you all is ok - the we can go with (3)
>> Install on you BE software to watch SAT TV.
>> best will be sw. provided by card vendor eventually any well known SAT
>> watching software.
>> Alternatively You can try with tools scanning SAT transponders:
>>
>> https://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Frequency_scan#Comparison_of_DVB_frequency_scanning_commandline_utilities
>> https://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Scan
>> https://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Dvbscan
>>
>> If above will be ok - we already know: (1)/(2)/(3) are ok.
>> If in above test you will use target kernel+target card drivers - then
>> steep (4) also can be marked as ok.
>>
>> So we can go with (5):
>> configure mythtv to use standard LNB (no any Unicable) and try tune to
>> some FTA channels.
>>
>> If (5) will go ok - then we can try (7): setup myth to use unicable and
>> try.
>>
>> If it will fail then:
>>
>> -borrow somewhere SAT receiver capable to do Unicable, configure Unicable
>> and verify is it working OK.
>>
>> If such SAT receiver will work - then out root cause is (7)
>> If such SAT receiver will now work - then out root cause is (6)
>>
>> let me know how it goes for you!
>>
>>
>> I have my setup with a "DUR-line UK 124-3L dCSS - Unicable LNB" working
> correctly! I can now make a perfect channel scan with mythtv-setup.
> The difference is that I replaced the single tuner DVBSky S950-C card with
> a dual tuner DVBSky S952 V3.
> At this moment I only use one tuner of the two available; when the new
> splitter arrives (special for Unicable, DC coupled and 5-2400MHz) I will
> test with both tuners.
> For now it looks that the card does make the difference.
>
> I have now documented the procedure in the Channel Scanning WIki pages,
similar to the description of Piotr, but with more words.
With this procedure my DVBSky S952 cards do work OK with Unicable.

After that I went back to the DVBSky S950-C card, configured with the same
procedure.
This card still does not work reliably, with behavior similar to what
Matthias describes.

To get an indication whether this is a MythTV software problem I have now
also used minisatip (see https://github.com/catalinii/minisatip) to handle
the S950-C card; MythTV is configured to use the Sat>IP protocol to talk to
the minisatip server. This configuration has similar behavior and similar
problems. This makes it unlikely, although not impossible, that it is a bug
in the MythTV Unicable implementation.
Note that when the S950-C card is connected to a normal ("legacy") LNB the
card works OK.

@Mathias, it would be interesting to know if your tuner cards do work OK
when using the minisatip server to control the cards with Unicable.
@Piotr Oniszczuk <piotr.oniszczuk@gmail.com> it would also be interesting
which tuner cards you have tested with Unicable.

Thanks,
Klaas.
Re: Unicable problems [ In reply to ]
> Wiadomo?? napisana przez Klaas de Waal <klaas.de.waal@gmail.com> w dniu 03.06.2022, o godz. 23:00:
>
>
> I have my setup with a "DUR-line UK 124-3L dCSS - Unicable LNB" working correctly! I can now make a perfect channel scan with mythtv-setup.
> The difference is that I replaced the single tuner DVBSky S950-C card with a dual tuner DVBSky S952 V3.
> At this moment I only use one tuner of the two available; when the new splitter arrives (special for Unicable, DC coupled and 5-2400MHz) I will test with both tuners.
> For now it looks that the card does make the difference.
>
> I have now documented the procedure in the Channel Scanning WIki pages, similar to the description of Piotr, but with more words.
> With this procedure my DVBSky S952 cards do work OK with Unicable.
>
> After that I went back to the DVBSky S950-C card, configured with the same procedure.
> This card still does not work reliably, with behavior similar to what Matthias describes.

Klaas,

It clearly looks to me like issue is with S950-C card as another card works ok with your SCR LNB.
So i have 2 hypothesis:
(1) 18V power supplied from card to LNB.
(2) Diseqc issue on S950-C (whatever sw. or hw)

Ad1: SCR requires constant, stable 18V supplied to LNB. Can you look with multimeter what card provides to LNB?
(ideally will be to look with oscilloscope to see there is no ripples, noise and voltage is constant - even when card send diseqc commands to LNB and LNB controller executes commands to tune user-band PLL to req. frequency)
Generally - SCR LNB requires more from SAT tuner card in terms of power (amount, stability). Maybe S950-C has too weak disecq power design to reliably power Your SCR LNB?

Ad2: Suspecting diseqc communication (see at end of http://www.vdr-wiki.de/wiki/index.php/SCR_Satellite_Channel_Routing) may be unreliable - I added in MythTV SCR capability of multiple sends of the same command (enabled when repeat is set to >10).
Did you try play with this?
(it is required for my Inverto Unicable LNB; I have set it to 13)

>
> To get an indication whether this is a MythTV software problem I have now also used minisatip (see https://github.com/catalinii/minisatip) to handle the S950-C card; MythTV is configured to use the Sat>IP protocol to talk to the minisatip server. This configuration has similar behavior and similar problems. This makes it unlikely, although not impossible, that it is a bug in the MythTV Unicable implementation.
> Note that when the S950-C card is connected to a normal ("legacy") LNB the card works OK.
>
> @Mathias, it would be interesting to know if your tuner cards do work OK when using the minisatip server to control the cards with Unicable.
> @Piotr Oniszczuk it would also be interesting which tuner cards you have tested with Unicable.

it is 2x dual DVB-S2 DvbSky S952.

br
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Re: Unicable problems [ In reply to ]
On Sun, 5 Jun 2022 at 11:18, Piotr Oniszczuk <piotr.oniszczuk@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
> > Wiadomo?? napisana przez Klaas de Waal <klaas.de.waal@gmail.com> w dniu
> 03.06.2022, o godz. 23:00:
> >
> >
> > I have my setup with a "DUR-line UK 124-3L dCSS - Unicable LNB" working
> correctly! I can now make a perfect channel scan with mythtv-setup.
> > The difference is that I replaced the single tuner DVBSky S950-C card
> with a dual tuner DVBSky S952 V3.
> > At this moment I only use one tuner of the two available; when the new
> splitter arrives (special for Unicable, DC coupled and 5-2400MHz) I will
> test with both tuners.
> > For now it looks that the card does make the difference.
> >
> > I have now documented the procedure in the Channel Scanning WIki pages,
> similar to the description of Piotr, but with more words.
> > With this procedure my DVBSky S952 cards do work OK with Unicable.
> >
> > After that I went back to the DVBSky S950-C card, configured with the
> same procedure.
> > This card still does not work reliably, with behavior similar to what
> Matthias describes.
>
> Klaas,
>
> It clearly looks to me like issue is with S950-C card as another card
> works ok with your SCR LNB.
> So i have 2 hypothesis:
> (1) 18V power supplied from card to LNB.
> (2) Diseqc issue on S950-C (whatever sw. or hw)
>
> Ad1: SCR requires constant, stable 18V supplied to LNB. Can you look with
> multimeter what card provides to LNB?
> (ideally will be to look with oscilloscope to see there is no ripples,
> noise and voltage is constant - even when card send diseqc commands to LNB
> and LNB controller executes commands to tune user-band PLL to req.
> frequency)
> Generally - SCR LNB requires more from SAT tuner card in terms of power
> (amount, stability). Maybe S950-C has too weak disecq power design to
> reliably power Your SCR LNB?
>
> Ad2: Suspecting diseqc communication (see at end of
> http://www.vdr-wiki.de/wiki/index.php/SCR_Satellite_Channel_Routing) may
> be unreliable - I added in MythTV SCR capability of multiple sends of the
> same command (enabled when repeat is set to >10).
> Did you try play with this?
> (it is required for my Inverto Unicable LNB; I have set it to 13)
>
> >
> > To get an indication whether this is a MythTV software problem I have
> now also used minisatip (see https://github.com/catalinii/minisatip) to
> handle the S950-C card; MythTV is configured to use the Sat>IP protocol to
> talk to the minisatip server. This configuration has similar behavior and
> similar problems. This makes it unlikely, although not impossible, that it
> is a bug in the MythTV Unicable implementation.
> > Note that when the S950-C card is connected to a normal ("legacy") LNB
> the card works OK.
> >
> > @Mathias, it would be interesting to know if your tuner cards do work OK
> when using the minisatip server to control the cards with Unicable.
> > @Piotr Oniszczuk it would also be interesting which tuner cards you
> have tested with Unicable.
>
> it is 2x dual DVB-S2 DvbSky S952.
>
> I think I found what is wrong.
Considering that:
- Piotr states that a Unicable LNB needs a stable 18V supply
- Matthias' problems disappeared after using the Power Injector that gives
a 18V supply
the problem is that MythTV still changes the LNB voltage from 13V to 18V
and vice versa according to the log messages that come when "-v channel" is
given.
This is of course needed for legacy LNB inputs but it is wrong when all
tuning information is passed via the DisEqC command and the DC supply is
just the DC supply.
Also considering that a Unicable splitter has DC pass-through which means
that it is NOT a good idea if one tuner gives 13V and another tuner gives
18V DC when the outputs are DC connected.
To test this, I have made a quick hack setting the DC always to 18V and it
looks like my DVBSky S950-C now works OK with the Unicable LNB.
The proper solution is of course that for Unicable LNBs the DC must always
be 18V and that only for legacy LNBs the DC voltage switching (and the
22kHz signalling) must be done.
I still need to figure out how to fix this in an optimal way but this
definitely looks the way forward. By the way, it is amazing that this
always has been wrong and even more amazing that it works OK with a DVBSky
S952 card.

Klaas.
Re: Unicable problems [ In reply to ]
> Wiadomo?? napisana przez Klaas de Waal <klaas.de.waal@gmail.com> w dniu 05.06.2022, o godz. 23:31:
>
>
>
> I think I found what is wrong.
> Considering that:
> - Piotr states that a Unicable LNB needs a stable 18V supply
> - Matthias' problems disappeared after using the Power Injector that gives a 18V supply
> the problem is that MythTV still changes the LNB voltage from 13V to 18V and vice versa according to the log messages that come when "-v channel" is given.

Indeed.
In my BE i have patch for this issue (see attached).
IIRC i was trying to upstream it - but as in many other cases with mythtv devs - I failed.


> This is of course needed for legacy LNB inputs but it is wrong when all tuning information is passed via the DisEqC command and the DC supply is just the DC supply.
> Also considering that a Unicable splitter has DC pass-through which means that it is NOT a good idea if one tuner gives 13V and another tuner gives 18V DC when the outputs are DC connected.

Good SCR aware spliter has diodes to avoid "feeding" power from currently 18V supplying F-connector to 13V currently supplying F-connector

> To test this, I have made a quick hack setting the DC always to 18V and it looks like my DVBSky S950-C now works OK with the Unicable LNB.

this is qll news!

> The proper solution is of course that for Unicable LNBs the DC must always be 18V and that only for legacy LNBs the DC voltage switching (and the 22kHz signalling) must be done.
> I still need to figure out how to fix this in an optimal way but this definitely looks the way forward. By the way, it is amazing that this always has been wrong and even more amazing that it works OK with a DVBSky S952 card.

pls look at attached patch.
IIRC it should address issue ...
Re: Unicable problems [ In reply to ]
Hi Piotr, Matthias,

I have now been testing my Unicable setup for some time, with two channels
allocated to my living room system, two to one test system and one to
another test system, all using an Unicable LNB pointed to Astra 28.2E for
the BBC Freesat programmes.
I reconnected all cables/connectors along the signal path and since then
reception has been good, even on the DVBSky 950C card, using the unmodified
voltage levels.
Using the 18V patch or using a power injector does not make a difference
anymore after tightening all the connectors.
Although I do not think that using the 18V patch has negative side effects,
it is against the EN50494 standard that explicitly says that the low DC
voltage should be used when not signalling.
I do appreciate the patch and it might solve problems with bad connections
or very long cables but for now I will not commit it. But I will keep it
lying around just in case.

Thanks,
Klaas.