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RedHat vs Ubuntu
Hi All,

I don't want to start a distro war discussion here. Just a practical
thread about the state of play with Myth in 2021.


Since 2007 I have run various incarnations of MythTV on RedHat derived
systems. Various flavours of Fedora and latterly Centos. I chose RedHat
as I work with that in my day-job and I'm most familiar with it. The
MythTV rpm builds done by Axel Thimm and others have worked well so far....

With the debacle over Centos 8 last year I have been attempting to set
up my latest incarnation of MythTV on AlmaLinux, with is a Redhat 8
clone. I've attempted to use the MythTV rpm made available at RPMFusion.
As some may have noticed in my other recent thread, there is a MySQL /
MariaDB conflict when installing that version. I know I could force the
install but generally the installation is really messy.

I raised a Bug at RPMFusion over a week ago and have had no response at
all. Not even a "this is duplicate of xyz or you are doing something dumb"

For MythTV > v28 is a RedHat/RPMFusion a viable way forward?

Is anyone else currently using a RedHat derived system?

As I see it there are these options

- Somehow get the RPMFusion rpm sorted out. Not having much luck with that.
- Find an alternative repository with a current rpm build. I do see
MythTV 0.27 for Fedora 19 on ATRPM's but Fedora 19 went EoL in 2015.
- Build from source on AlmaLinux.
- Drop RedHat and switch to Ubuntu.

I rather suspect the last option is the only real way forward.

I do appreciate the hours of voluntary effort put in my many to produce
a truly excellent system that is head and shoulders ahead of anything else.

Thoughts

:-) Ken



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Re: RedHat vs Ubuntu [ In reply to ]
On 23/09/2021 11:10, Ken Smith via mythtv-users wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I don't want to start a distro war discussion here. Just a practical thread about the state of play
> with Myth in 2021.
>
>
> Since 2007 I have run various incarnations of MythTV on RedHat derived systems. Various flavours of
> Fedora and latterly Centos. I chose RedHat as I work with that in my day-job and I'm most familiar
> with it. The MythTV rpm builds done by Axel Thimm and others have worked well so far....
>
> With the debacle over Centos 8 last year I have been attempting to set up my latest incarnation of
> MythTV on AlmaLinux, with is a Redhat 8 clone. I've attempted to use the MythTV rpm made available
> at RPMFusion. As some may have noticed in my other recent thread, there is a MySQL / MariaDB
> conflict when installing that version. I know I could force the install but generally the
> installation is really messy.
>
> I raised a Bug at RPMFusion over a week ago and have had no response at all. Not even a "this is
> duplicate of xyz or you are doing something dumb"
>
> For MythTV > v28 is a RedHat/RPMFusion a viable way forward?
>
> Is anyone else currently using a RedHat derived system?
>
> As I see it there are these options
>
> - Somehow get the RPMFusion rpm sorted out. Not having much luck with that.
> - Find an alternative repository with a current rpm build. I do see MythTV 0.27 for Fedora 19 on
> ATRPM's but Fedora 19 went EoL in 2015.
> - Build from source on AlmaLinux.
> - Drop RedHat and switch to Ubuntu.
>
> I rather suspect the last option is the only real way forward.
>
> I do appreciate the hours of voluntary effort put in my many to produce a truly excellent system
> that is head and shoulders ahead of anything else.
>
> Thoughts
>
> :-) Ken
>
>
>
I have been using Debian for many years on all my systems. It may not be cutting edge but that's
fine with me.

For mythtv I use the deb-multimedia repository (https://deb-multimedia.org) and just pull from that.
Everything just works.

Building a server is very simple but will require some command-line knowledge to pull in the
packages you need.

I have tried Ubuntu several times in the past and consider it over-engineered for my own needs. Why
go to the monkey when you can go directly to the organ-grinder?

If you want to go down the Debian route email me and I'll list out what I did to get my current setup.

--

Mike Perkins

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Re: RedHat vs Ubuntu [ In reply to ]
On 23/09/2021 11:10, Ken Smith via mythtv-users wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I don't want to start a distro war discussion here. Just a practical
> thread about the state of play with Myth in 2021.
>
>
> Since 2007 I have run various incarnations of MythTV on RedHat derived
> systems. Various flavours of Fedora and latterly Centos. I chose RedHat
> as I work with that in my day-job and I'm most familiar with it. The
> MythTV rpm builds done by Axel Thimm and others have worked well so far....
>
> With the debacle over Centos 8 last year I have been attempting to set
> up my latest incarnation of MythTV on AlmaLinux, with is a Redhat 8
> clone. I've attempted to use the MythTV rpm made available at RPMFusion.
> As some may have noticed in my other recent thread, there is a MySQL /
> MariaDB conflict when installing that version. I know I could force the
> install but generally the installation is really messy.
>
> I raised a Bug at RPMFusion over a week ago and have had no response at
> all. Not even a "this is duplicate of xyz or you are doing something dumb"
>
> For MythTV > v28 is a RedHat/RPMFusion a viable way forward?
>
> Is anyone else currently using a RedHat derived system?
>
> As I see it there are these options
>
> - Somehow get the RPMFusion rpm sorted out. Not having much luck with that.
> - Find an alternative repository with a current rpm build. I do see
> MythTV 0.27 for Fedora 19 on ATRPM's but Fedora 19 went EoL in 2015.
> - Build from source on AlmaLinux.
> - Drop RedHat and switch to Ubuntu.
>
> I rather suspect the last option is the only real way forward.
>
> I do appreciate the hours of voluntary effort put in my many to produce
> a truly excellent system that is head and shoulders ahead of anything else.
>
> Thoughts
>
> :-) Ken
>

TTBOMK the ATrpms builds stopped abruptly several years ago after Axel
had moved back from Berlin to Greece. The builds were taken over and
extended in Australia, and are apparently continuing here:

http://scrpms.net/pub/RPMS/el8/x86_64/

I have not tried to use them recently but they might be what you want.
Axel's builds were not necessarily always compatible with other parts of
the RedHat system.

As I said earlier, local builds for Fedora 33 work well for me. It
seems likely that installable builds for el8 will eventually appear from
RPMfusion, but Centos 8/ AlmaLinux 8/ Rocky Linux 8 are still, AIUI, in
a state of flux.

John P


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Re: RedHat vs Ubuntu [ In reply to ]
On 9/23/21 6:10 AM, Ken Smith via mythtv-users wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I don't want to start a distro war discussion here. Just a practical
> thread about the state of play with Myth in 2021.
>
>
> Since 2007 I have run various incarnations of MythTV on RedHat derived
> systems. Various flavours of Fedora and latterly Centos. I chose
> RedHat as I work with that in my day-job and I'm most familiar with
> it. The MythTV rpm builds done by Axel Thimm and others have worked
> well so far....
>
> With the debacle over Centos 8 last year I have been attempting to set
> up my latest incarnation of MythTV on AlmaLinux, with is a Redhat 8
> clone. I've attempted to use the MythTV rpm made available at
> RPMFusion. As some may have noticed in my other recent thread, there
> is a MySQL / MariaDB conflict when installing that version. I know I
> could force the install but generally the installation is really messy.
>
> I raised a Bug at RPMFusion over a week ago and have had no response
> at all. Not even a "this is duplicate of xyz or you are doing
> something dumb"
>
> For MythTV > v28 is a RedHat/RPMFusion a viable way forward?
>
> Is anyone else currently using a RedHat derived system?
>
> As I see it there are these options
>
> - Somehow get the RPMFusion rpm sorted out. Not having much luck with
> that.
> - Find an alternative repository with a current rpm build. I do see
> MythTV 0.27 for Fedora 19 on ATRPM's but Fedora 19 went EoL in 2015.
> - Build from source on AlmaLinux.
> - Drop RedHat and switch to Ubuntu.
>
> I rather suspect the last option is the only real way forward.
>
> I do appreciate the hours of voluntary effort put in my many to
> produce a truly excellent system that is head and shoulders ahead of
> anything else.
>
> Thoughts
>
> :-) Ken


I've been using Mythtv on *buntu since it was it's own distro
originally.  To me it seemed that the main development was on *buntu so
I stuck with that.  I now use a minimal installation of Ubuntu desktop,
add the repository and install. Everything else is just configuration. 
Always works and I rarely have to ask for help.

I've always had the philosophy to use the OS that is most convenient for
what I want to do. I guess that is why I've learned and used so many
OS's over the years. I don't care about which is more original to the
tree, uses less memory or maybe slightly faster. Just what gets the job
done the best and quickest.

As they said in the movies, "Time's money on this job"

That's my opinion anyway.

Jim A


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Re: RedHat vs Ubuntu [ In reply to ]
If you decide to switch to Ubuntu you might take a look at Mint. It's based
on Ubuntu and uses the same package system.
I've been using it for several years and have been happy with it.

Bob

On Thu, Sep 23, 2021 at 5:15 AM Ken Smith via mythtv-users <
mythtv-users@mythtv.org> wrote:

>
> Hi All,
>
> I don't want to start a distro war discussion here. Just a practical
> thread about the state of play with Myth in 2021.
>
>
> Since 2007 I have run various incarnations of MythTV on RedHat derived
> systems. Various flavours of Fedora and latterly Centos. I chose RedHat
> as I work with that in my day-job and I'm most familiar with it. The
> MythTV rpm builds done by Axel Thimm and others have worked well so far....
>
> With the debacle over Centos 8 last year I have been attempting to set
> up my latest incarnation of MythTV on AlmaLinux, with is a Redhat 8
> clone. I've attempted to use the MythTV rpm made available at RPMFusion.
> As some may have noticed in my other recent thread, there is a MySQL /
> MariaDB conflict when installing that version. I know I could force the
> install but generally the installation is really messy.
>
> I raised a Bug at RPMFusion over a week ago and have had no response at
> all. Not even a "this is duplicate of xyz or you are doing something dumb"
>
> For MythTV > v28 is a RedHat/RPMFusion a viable way forward?
>
> Is anyone else currently using a RedHat derived system?
>
> As I see it there are these options
>
> - Somehow get the RPMFusion rpm sorted out. Not having much luck with that.
> - Find an alternative repository with a current rpm build. I do see
> MythTV 0.27 for Fedora 19 on ATRPM's but Fedora 19 went EoL in 2015.
> - Build from source on AlmaLinux.
> - Drop RedHat and switch to Ubuntu.
>
> I rather suspect the last option is the only real way forward.
>
> I do appreciate the hours of voluntary effort put in my many to produce
> a truly excellent system that is head and shoulders ahead of anything else.
>
> Thoughts
>
> :-) Ken
>
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
> MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org
>
Re: RedHat vs Ubuntu [ In reply to ]
> On 23 Sep 2021, at 7:26 pm, Jim Abernathy <jfabernathy@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 9/23/21 6:10 AM, Ken Smith via mythtv-users wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I don't want to start a distro war discussion here. Just a practical thread about the state of play with Myth in 2021.
>>
>>
>> Since 2007 I have run various incarnations of MythTV on RedHat derived systems. Various flavours of Fedora and latterly Centos. I chose RedHat as I work with that in my day-job and I'm most familiar with it. The MythTV rpm builds done by Axel Thimm and others have worked well so far....
>>
>> With the debacle over Centos 8 last year I have been attempting to set up my latest incarnation of MythTV on AlmaLinux, with is a Redhat 8 clone. I've attempted to use the MythTV rpm made available at RPMFusion. As some may have noticed in my other recent thread, there is a MySQL / MariaDB conflict when installing that version. I know I could force the install but generally the installation is really messy.
>>
>> I raised a Bug at RPMFusion over a week ago and have had no response at all. Not even a "this is duplicate of xyz or you are doing something dumb"
>>
>> For MythTV > v28 is a RedHat/RPMFusion a viable way forward?
>>
>> Is anyone else currently using a RedHat derived system?
>>
>> As I see it there are these options
>>
>> - Somehow get the RPMFusion rpm sorted out. Not having much luck with that.
>> - Find an alternative repository with a current rpm build. I do see MythTV 0.27 for Fedora 19 on ATRPM's but Fedora 19 went EoL in 2015.
>> - Build from source on AlmaLinux.
>> - Drop RedHat and switch to Ubuntu.
>>
>> I rather suspect the last option is the only real way forward.
>>
>> I do appreciate the hours of voluntary effort put in my many to produce a truly excellent system that is head and shoulders ahead of anything else.
>>
>> Thoughts
>>
>> :-) Ken
>
>
> I've been using Mythtv on *buntu since it was it's own distro originally. To me it seemed that the main development was on *buntu so I stuck with that. I now use a minimal installation of Ubuntu desktop, add the repository and install. Everything else is just configuration. Always works and I rarely have to ask for help.
>
> I've always had the philosophy to use the OS that is most convenient for what I want to do. I guess that is why I've learned and used so many OS's over the years. I don't care about which is more original to the tree, uses less memory or maybe slightly faster. Just what gets the job done the best and quickest.
>
> As they said in the movies, "Time's money on this job"
>
> That's my opinion anyway.

Ken I use SuSE and the pain that went with setting it up, but I have done and it is quick and easy on ubuntu (xubuntu or lubuntu are nice choices)
https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Build_from_Source <https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Build_from_Source>
admittedly I've done it a few times, but 30 min from start to a working system
advantage is git. IE a recent change for meta data, fixed in 5 min!

For Mike "I've always used debian" other reasons not because debian offers mythtv "medisanol compound"
James
Re: RedHat vs Ubuntu [ In reply to ]
On Thu, Sep 23, 2021 at 10:13 AM Ken Smith via mythtv-users
<mythtv-users@mythtv.org> wrote:

> With the debacle over Centos 8 last year

The only debacle is for those that did not understand
getting early access to updates through CentOS Stream
and were afraid that they might install those updates
early (which of course, was their choice to install or
not install). I believe the lead of Rocky Linux has
said they now understand the purpose of Stream a
lot better, and see how it can be useful for some,
if not all, use cases for CentOS. Individual users,
of course, would have gotten those same stream
updates in the next EL point release anyway,
although they would have been nicely versioned rather
than streamed. With RH maintaining ABI stability in
an EL version for software, updates nearly never break
MythTV in any case (and dnf downgrade is always
available in the case some update does break an
app, because nearly never does not mean never
never).

For those who want true RHEL8, one can obtain a
free (to use) license for a small number of systems
directly from RedHat even for "production" work
now (previously it was limited to development, but
RH announced the change at the beginning of the
year).

> I have been attempting to set
> up my latest incarnation of MythTV on AlmaLinux, with is a Redhat 8
> clone.

No, it is not, really. Rocky is closer. Alma has decided to add in
"extras" and with it's choices has made building/using software
such as MythTV more difficult as you have learned. Perhaps
Alma will clean up its act at some point, but for now, I would
stay away from Alma. For my occasional test mock builds, I
can build MythTV (fixes/31 and master) for Fedora, EL7, EL8,
Stream8, Rocky, but not Alma (mock cannot install all the
required packages due to conflicts/breakage in the Alma
repository itself, which is just unacceptable dependency
breakage on Alma's part).

> For MythTV > v28 is a RedHat/RPMFusion a viable way forward?

From random comments, It would appear that for the
subset of MythTV devs that choose to use a RH variant
(those building from source and running master) Fedora
may be the choice.

> Is anyone else currently using a RedHat derived system?

I use Fedora, which is not so much as derived, but
upstream, but I consider it part of the overall larger
RH family. It just works, and so do system updates
(I tend to update my Fedora based MythTV systems
even before the official GA date). Note, as suggested
above, I build my own packages because I wish to
run the master branch, and a new Fedora version
may (often does) require a newer build because
of library ABI changes. RPMFusion does that
for you for the stable (fixes/31) branch on Fedora.

One can go to the MythTV smolt report which shows
others do use EL based systems, although since smolt
is opt-in, and many do not opt-in, the numbers are
only suggestive.

> As I see it there are these options
>
> - Somehow get the RPMFusion rpm sorted out. Not having much luck with that.

Switch to a free RHEL license, CentOS Stream, or Rocky
if you want to stay on a EL platform (I have not tested
RPMFusion on Rocky, but it is seems far more likely to
just work).

> - Find an alternative repository with a current rpm build. I do see
> MythTV 0.27 for Fedora 19 on ATRPM's but Fedora 19 went EoL in 2015.

As I recall, ATRPMS is (long) dead.

> - Build from source on AlmaLinux.

Well, if you really want to stay with Alma, but I
would look elsewhere.

> - Drop RedHat and switch to Ubuntu.
>
> I rather suspect the last option is the only real way forward.

Ubuntu is the most popular path according to the
smolt data for the average person. And it just
works thanks to others making sure builds keep
working.
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Re: RedHat vs Ubuntu [ In reply to ]
On 23/09/2021 12:11, John Pilkington wrote:

> TTBOMK the ATrpms builds stopped abruptly several years ago after Axel
> had moved back from Berlin to Greece.  The builds were taken over and
> extended in Australia, and are apparently continuing here:
>
> http://scrpms.net/pub/RPMS/el8/x86_64/
>
> I have not tried to use them recently but they might be what you want.
> Axel's builds were not necessarily always compatible with other parts of
> the RedHat system.
>
> As I said earlier, local builds for Fedora 33 work well for me.  It
> seems likely that installable builds for el8 will eventually appear from
> RPMfusion, but Centos 8/ AlmaLinux 8/ Rocky Linux 8 are still, AIUI, in
> a state of flux.

... and this recent and still current 'RFE' expands on that.

> https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/issues/390

> John P
>
>

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Re: RedHat vs Ubuntu [ In reply to ]
On Thu, Sep 23, 2021 at 2:17 PM John Pilkington <johnpilk222@gmail.com> wrote:

> ... and this recent and still current 'RFE' expands on that.

I had forgot about that issue, since I build with
the patch in my local environment when I test
Rocky builds.
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Re: RedHat vs Ubuntu [ In reply to ]
On Thu, Sep 23, 2021 at 11:10:28AM +0100, Ken Smith via mythtv-users wrote:
> As I see it there are these options
>
> - Somehow get the RPMFusion rpm sorted out. Not having much luck with that.
> - Find an alternative repository with a current rpm build. I do see MythTV
> 0.27 for Fedora 19 on ATRPM's but Fedora 19 went EoL in 2015.
> - Build from source on AlmaLinux.
> - Drop RedHat and switch to Ubuntu.
>
> I rather suspect the last option is the only real way forward.

I'm happily running Fedora 34 with Mythtv v31 from RPMFusion.

It's certainly another option and if you're used to the RedHat packaging,
then it's a lot more familiar than Ubuntu.

marcus hall
marcus@tuells.org
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Re: RedHat vs Ubuntu [ In reply to ]
On 9/23/21 8:01 AM, Bob Wiegand wrote:
> If you decide to switch to Ubuntu you might take a look at Mint. It's based on Ubuntu and uses the same package system.
> I've been using it for several years and have been happy with it.
>
> Bob

I would also vote for Mint if you're going to go the Ubuntu route.

I've been playing with it for a couple years also and it's the Distro I put on friends' laptops when Windows nukes itself and they've had enough with microsoft.
(and don't play the big GPU games and just surf or make word docs)

?-Ben
Re: RedHat vs Ubuntu [ In reply to ]
My preference is to install Ubuntu and to choose the minimal option when installing it.
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Re: RedHat vs Ubuntu [ In reply to ]
On 23/09/2021 17:43, marcus hall wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 23, 2021 at 11:10:28AM +0100, Ken Smith via mythtv-users wrote:
>> As I see it there are these options
>>
>> - Somehow get the RPMFusion rpm sorted out. Not having much luck with that.
>> - Find an alternative repository with a current rpm build. I do see MythTV
>> 0.27 for Fedora 19 on ATRPM's but Fedora 19 went EoL in 2015.
>> - Build from source on AlmaLinux.
>> - Drop RedHat and switch to Ubuntu.
>>
>> I rather suspect the last option is the only real way forward.
>
> I'm happily running Fedora 34 with Mythtv v31 from RPMFusion.
>
> It's certainly another option and if you're used to the RedHat packaging,
> then it's a lot more familiar than Ubuntu.
>

RPMFusion is the way forward if you need packages.

My primary development platform is Fedora for all of MythTV,
however our most common platform is still Ubuntu by a long way.

I've committed Gary's patch to configure for Rocky|AlmaLinux
and fixed the ansible playbooks to install the required python
libraries on Rocky.

I've not added AlmaLinux support to the playbooks, but should be
fairly trivial


Regards
Stuart

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Re: RedHat vs Ubuntu [ In reply to ]
FWIW, my latest incarnation of MythTV is running on Fedora 31, (as it
was quite a while ago and I haven't upgraded yet), but the install on 31
was pretty uneventful using Maria IIRC...

On 9/24/21 7:00 AM, mythtv-users-request@mythtv.org wrote:
> Re: RedHat vs Ubuntu
--
*Henry B. Tindall, Jr., SSCP, CISSP, RHCSA
Cell 334-313-2033*