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Hi Paul,

On 04/06/2021 15:17, Paul Harrison wrote:
> We can see from the number of Scheduled Direct users and the Smolt data

> that MythTV is losing users at an ever increasing rate.  We think one
> reason for this is it's getting harder and harder to record stuff
> because more services are becoming encrypted requiring proprietary boxes
> to view and record content and some services are moving to an on-demand

> type of service that are hard or impossible to record.
>
>
> So the question is what improvements would you like to see in MythTV in

> the future that would persuade you to continue to use it? Would you like
> to see better support for YouTube for example or a better video media
> library. Better music player? Support for IPTV services? What plugins do
> you use?  What plugins would you like to see? Are you happy with the
> user interface or would you like to see a more modern one?
>
>
> Give us your thoughts on what direction you would like to see MythTV
> take now it's original purpose is slowing being killed of.

I've been using MythTV since it replaced a TiVo some eight years ago.

My main criticism is that the frontend no longer plays HD content
fluidly on my RaspberryPi 3, and so I now use a Kodi frontend with the
MythTV backend. If the frontend played HD content better, then I would
ditch Kodi again.

I have minor issues with things like internet radio being very flaky to
set up and use.

I don't intend to use paid-for streaming services or the like.

Regards

Jeff

I think there are two issues:

1. The on-demand trend, as Paul noted. We've started watching more and
more content from sources not recordable by Myth: YouTube, NetFlix,
Peacock, Disney Plus+, Amazon Prime Video. I'd love to have a way to
meta-search across all of these for something, since figuring out who
has what is really difficult right now. But, obviously, it doesn't make
sense for Myth to do this sort of searching if it can't actually play
the content. That, I fear, would be really hard to do.  Despite all the
instructions I've found for getting Widevine DRM set up with Chrome and
FireFox under Linux, I can't even get that to work.

2. Fragmentation of device use. These days, everyone in my family has
their own device (laptop, Chromebook, tablet, phone) and we often watch
content alone on those devices, rather than gathering around a single
TV. If there was a single media hub to rule them all, it would have to
work well on all devices.

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Hi Paul,

On 6/4/2021 8:17 AM, Paul Harrison wrote:
> So the question is what improvements would you like to see in MythTV in
> the future that would persuade you to continue to use it? Would you like
> to see better support for YouTube for example or a better video media
> library. Better music player? Support for IPTV services? What plugins do
> you use?  What plugins would you like to see? Are you happy with the
> user interface or would you like to see a more modern one?

Our family's TV viewing has mostly shifted to streaming services,
although there are still a few things we record off the air. The main
thing I would like to see is better youtube support, or possibly a
remote control friendly web browser plugin to access streaming services.

I'd also like to see integration of local media with recorded shows, I
remember there was talk of that coming a while back, not sure what the
current status is.

HDMI-CEC support would definitely be a big plus, roku has spoiled us in
that respect, although that's really not anything mythtv can fix alone.

thanks,
-kevin
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On 6/4/21 8:17 AM, Paul Harrison wrote:
> We can see from the number of Scheduled Direct users and the Smolt data
> that MythTV is losing users at an ever increasing rate.  We think one
> reason for this is it's getting harder and harder to record stuff
> because more services are becoming encrypted requiring proprietary boxes
> to view and record content and some services are moving to an on-demand
> type of service that are hard or impossible to record.
>
>
> So the question is what improvements would you like to see in MythTV in
> the future that would persuade you to continue to use it? Would you like
> to see better support for YouTube for example or a better video media
> library. Better music player? Support for IPTV services? What plugins do
> you use?  What plugins would you like to see? Are you happy with the
> user interface or would you like to see a more modern one?
>
>
> Give us your thoughts on what direction you would like to see MythTV
> take now it's original purpose is slowing being killed of.
>
>
> Paul H.
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
> MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org

HD and 4k playback, with good surround audio support. I have no trouble
getting content. I still record a lot of TV but would also like to be
able to play 4k media. I have Firestick 4ks on every TV. And leanfront
just isn't quite a viable option because we watch live tv and flip
channels a lot.
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On 2021-06-04 14:17, Paul Harrison wrote:
> Give us your thoughts on what direction you would like to see MythTV
> take now it's original purpose is slowing being killed of.

We watch quite a bit from Netflix et al. using an Nvidia Shield but kept
the mythfrontend box as it does frame rate switching for our recorded
stuff and our video collection. I don't see us dropping MythTV as our
recordings are from Freeview DVB which won't go encrypted and should be
around for a few years. MythTV commercial skipping is brilliant.

What would be nice is to get the web interface to the backend to be as
useful as mythweb for scheduling recordings. I'm still using mythweb,
but it is showing signs of bit-rot.

Thanks for all the effort the devs have put in, and please don't drop
it.
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On 04/06/2021 15:18, TimP wrote:
> On 2021-06-04 14:17, Paul Harrison wrote:
>> Give us your thoughts on what direction you would like to see MythTV
>> take now it's original purpose is slowing being killed of.
>
> We watch quite a bit from Netflix et al. using an Nvidia Shield but kept
> the mythfrontend box as it does frame rate switching for our recorded
> stuff and our video collection. I don't see us dropping MythTV as our
> recordings are from Freeview DVB which won't go encrypted and should be
> around for a few years. MythTV commercial skipping is brilliant.
>
> What would be nice is to get the web interface to the backend to be as
> useful as mythweb for scheduling recordings. I'm still using mythweb,
> but it is showing signs of bit-rot.
>

We are fully aware of this one, and work has been done towards this
goal. It is however slow progress :(

> Thanks for all the effort the devs have put in, and please don't drop it.

No plans!


Regards
Stuart
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On 6/4/21 9:17 AM, Paul Harrison wrote:
> We can see from the number of Scheduled Direct users and the Smolt
> data that MythTV is losing users at an ever increasing rate.  We think
> one reason for this is it's getting harder and harder to record stuff
> because more services are becoming encrypted requiring proprietary
> boxes to view and record content and some services are moving to an
> on-demand type of service that are hard or impossible to record.
>
>
> So the question is what improvements would you like to see in MythTV
> in the future that would persuade you to continue to use it? Would you
> like to see better support for YouTube for example or a better video
> media library. Better music player? Support for IPTV services? What
> plugins do you use?  What plugins would you like to see? Are you happy
> with the user interface or would you like to see a more modern one?
>
>
> Give us your thoughts on what direction you would like to see MythTV
> take now it's original purpose is slowing being killed of.
>
>
> Paul H.


I still use mythtv the same as I did back when the earth first cooled. 
I record USA OTA ATSC 1.0 recordings. They currently are all HD, either
1080i or 720p. I see no change in that with the exception of possibly
moving to ATSC 3.0 NextGen TV.

However, my wife and I watch a lot of streaming services like Netflix
and SlingTV in addition to recorded OTA network shows from CBS, ABC,
NBC, Fox, and PBS. To make it simple to integrate all of this content, I
use a Nvidia Shield TV with either mythfrontend or leanfront for mythtv
content and the streaming services apps for their content. It's seamless
to switch between them.

My wife's eye isn't as critical as mine so for her Leanfront on a FireTV
4K stick is very good, meaning no complaints to me. When I test her
FIreTV 4K I see less quality with the picture using mythfrontend, but my
wife only uses Leanfront, so no issues.

We both use the TV's builtin tuner for LiveTV, so that feature isn't a
care for mythtv.

However, I do record sports and watch them a 1/2 hour behind to skip
commercials.

A key feature for me is mythfrontend's Manage Recordings. Since video
quality isn't an issue when using that tool, I can run it from any
device to setup recordings.

However, I do use mythweb through a VPN so I can get back to my MythTV
while on the road to manage recordings that need immediate attention.

Jim A

P.S. Above describes what we regularly use.  But I'm one of those 70
year olds with nothing better to do than try everything computer
related.  So I have a 5x1 HDMI switch on my 4K TV so I can test not only
Shield TV, but also RPI4, AMD Ryzen gaming PC, etc. But when it comes to
watching for entertainment, it's the Shield TV for me. It's a very good
solution for USA OTA Mythtv and streaming.



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> Op 4 jun. 2021, om 16:30 heeft Stuart Auchterlonie <stuarta@squashedfrog.net> het volgende geschreven:
>
> On 04/06/2021 15:18, TimP wrote:
>> On 2021-06-04 14:17, Paul Harrison wrote:
>>> Give us your thoughts on what direction you would like to see MythTV
>>> take now it's original purpose is slowing being killed of.
>> We watch quite a bit from Netflix et al. using an Nvidia Shield but kept the mythfrontend box as it does frame rate switching for our recorded stuff and our video collection. I don't see us dropping MythTV as our recordings are from Freeview DVB which won't go encrypted and should be around for a few years. MythTV commercial skipping is brilliant.
>> What would be nice is to get the web interface to the backend to be as useful as mythweb for scheduling recordings. I'm still using mythweb, but it is showing signs of bit-rot.
>
> We are fully aware of this one, and work has been done towards this
> goal. It is however slow progress :(
>
>> Thanks for all the effort the devs have put in, and please don't drop it.
>
> No plans!
>
>

I’ll try to stick with MythTv as long as i can, as I have been using it since 0.17 or so. (2006?). However, I have to use an external decryption program to decode the channels using my CI card. I tried last winter to link the CI card and DVB-S2 receivers directly as per instructions from the receiver manufacturer. That was not successful as at best I could receive one program at the time, whereas the CI card should at least decode 4 channels simultaneously in this setup. (It actually does 8)
So, given that my only option at the moment is using an unsupported loopback device I’ll stick with Myth as long as that works.
All my DVB-S2 channels are also available as streams and I would love a feature that allows recording multiple streams like they were regular TV channels using the same scheduler and ad skipping, (which works perfect by the way).
I can use streams and DVB-S2 under the same subscription, so it would be easy to switch.

I understand that IPTV is only standardised in name, but there are many variations in content delivery, protection and stream protocols. For my streams I only need a password/username linked to paying account.

Johan

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First, thanks to everyone who make MythTV a great way to record and
watch TV. My TV watching life is much improved since I first installed
MythTV back in 2011.

Personally I think that MythTV has become more difficult to install.

As I see it the areas of increased setup difficultly are:

- Lack of Mythbuntu distro which made it easy to install all the pieces
at once.

- Setting up Schedules Direct for MythTV 31 with the new command line
based XMLTV grabber methods is harder than with the previous Data Direct
web based channel selection method.

- Changing settings in the GUI is sometimes non-intuitive such as in
Video setup section with entries that can be clicked on to pop up a
selection list, but also have a right arrow option to open a screen of
additional options.

- Setting up remote controls such as MCE units is harder because LIRC
does not work out-of-the-box.

I believe the above items reduce the number of people who would persist
through the difficulty to eventually achieve a working MythTV installation.

With all that said, overall I am impressed with MythTV and the volunteer
effort that has made it a great tool for consuming television content.

Best Regards,
Curtis Gedak
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On 6/4/21 8:17 AM, Paul Harrison wrote:
>
> Give us your thoughts on what direction you would like to see MythTV take now it's original purpose is slowing being killed of.
>

Hey Paul,

First - thanks for almost 2 decades (for me) of MythTV. I put together my first system in 2004.

I currently use MythTV primarily as my OTA recording back-end and then share the recording directory with Plex (or I have a job to trim flagged commercials/transcode/save into another directory structure Plex can see). I do all my recording with HDHR Tuners over my network.

The only real reason I brought Plex into the mix was:

 1: Android Device support for playback (and from the cloud. In my car, I use Plex to play music via Android Auto)
    (sidenote: to this day it's flaky and doesn't always work -- and while my MP3 collection has all the ID3 tags carefully set, Plex's music scanner seems to ignore that and insist on organizing some of my music by folder instead of ID3 tag.)

 2: The Plex Android client had a mobile-device photo-sync (that feature has been removed - apparently Plex can't keep it working. Abandoning it pissed off a lot of users. Personally, I had one friend jump on a lifetime plexpass for that one feature and now it's gone.)

 3: Plex Mobile Client and via web client can cast to things like ChromeCast. If I'm watching on a TV/Projector, that's how I do it.

 4: Bonus Item: Plex users can share content with other plex users. (the whole "add friends" thing)

-------------------

If I could cover those things with MythTV -- I would have MythTV would shift back to becoming the central component to my media system... Plex would only serve for sharing my stored content with friends.
(and if MythTV incorporated some way to share that and was reasonably priced, I'm sure those users would shift over as well.)

Cheers and thanks,

 -Ben
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Hi

I was a long time user of MythTV until about 4 years ago (so some of my
thoughts maybe a little dated). I left MythTV not because of any intrinsic
fault of it. Hardware failure and personal circumstances dictated a
different solution (a Humax). I'm in the UK, which is probably slightly
different to the rest of the world.

What I loved about MythTV:

MythWeb
Clever searches (record anything with Michael Caine in for example). I used
this a lot.
Remember all the episodes of something and don't record them again.
Automatically rearrange schedules to accommodate recordings that clash.
The distributed nature of the architecture. Central recordings multiple
front-ends all over the house.

The things I wasn't so keen on:

Installation.
Upgrading.
Ongoing maintenance.

These are what has put me off returning (though I will soon, as overall the
system is better than the Humax).

But, for all it's faults a can just switch on the Humax and it works.

So with that in mind, it maybe good to look at what some of the other open
source projects have done to make getting it up and running easily and
without having to have a masters in IT things to get it working. I think
this maybe a barrier to entry. If you, for example take Home Assistant,
which is probably one of the bigger ones. When I started using it, it was
mostly configuring yaml files to to automations and configure devices. With
every recently release, they have progressively removed the need to have
devices configured with YAML and also removed the need for the unskilled
user to setup automations using YAML. All these have been moved to a nice
easy to use GUI. Those techie enough can still do automations using YAML,
Python etc). Upgrades are now easier if you have the OS provided by them
as you can snapshot and roll back if it goes wrong. I think there is a lot
to be learnt from a project like that which is keen to attract the man on
the street. It might also be useful to have a Home Assistant integration
(or any other automation systems) for MythTV, this may have the side effect
of attracting more users in your direction.

Also, yes the world is moving on for broadcast TV, you are competing
against big subscription services and you will never win against those, but
I think the FTA still has a place. Not everyone want to pay 10 quid a month
to 10+ subscription services.

and embrace free steaming TV services Youtube, bitchute etc.

If you do improve Youtube, please make it skip ads,the experience on
android TV Youtube app drives my up the wall :-)

These are just the views of an outsider looking to get back in.

:-)

Max



On Fri, 4 Jun 2021 at 14:26, Paul Harrison <mythtv@mythqml.net> wrote:

> We can see from the number of Scheduled Direct users and the Smolt data
> that MythTV is losing users at an ever increasing rate. We think one
> reason for this is it's getting harder and harder to record stuff
> because more services are becoming encrypted requiring proprietary boxes
> to view and record content and some services are moving to an on-demand
> type of service that are hard or impossible to record.
>
>
> So the question is what improvements would you like to see in MythTV in
> the future that would persuade you to continue to use it? Would you like
> to see better support for YouTube for example or a better video media
> library. Better music player? Support for IPTV services? What plugins do
> you use? What plugins would you like to see? Are you happy with the
> user interface or would you like to see a more modern one?
>
>
> Give us your thoughts on what direction you would like to see MythTV
> take now it's original purpose is slowing being killed of.
>
>
> Paul H.
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
> MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org
>

On Fri, Jun 4, 2021, 9:27 AM Paul Harrison, <mythtv@mythqml.net> wrote:

> Give us your thoughts on what direction you would like to see MythTV
> take now it's original purpose is slowing being killed of.
>
>
First off, I've been using MythTV since I ditched cable in 2011. A million
thank yous to the developers and community.

I use MythTV to record OTA TV in North America and I'm slowly adding to my
video library.

Streaming services: I have had some different streaming boxes over the
years and since changing to another hdmi source is not heavy lifting, I
don't need MythTV to be a Swiss army knife and interface with YouTube,
Netflix, etc.

Video library: I haven't used Plex but it appears the library interface is
more attractive. But I don't sit staring at the library interface for
hours, so as long as I can choose something from my library and play it
well, that's what's important. Support for 4K too.

Recording/playback TV: I use this a lot to track down episodes of shows we
watch, want to discover on OTA TV. Again, the important thing is good
playback and support for the eventual 4K atsc3 broadcasts.

I agree lirc can be a headache but a Flirc dongle gets around that, or a
Bluetooth remote.

>
>

On Friday, 4 June 2021 14:17:48 BST Paul Harrison wrote:
> We can see from the number of Scheduled Direct users and the Smolt data
> that MythTV is losing users at an ever increasing rate. We think one
> reason for this is it's getting harder and harder to record stuff
> because more services are becoming encrypted requiring proprietary boxes
> to view and record content and some services are moving to an on-demand
> type of service that are hard or impossible to record.
>
>
> So the question is what improvements would you like to see in MythTV in
> the future that would persuade you to continue to use it? Would you like
> to see better support for YouTube for example or a better video media
> library. Better music player? Support for IPTV services? What plugins do
> you use? What plugins would you like to see? Are you happy with the
> user interface or would you like to see a more modern one?
>
>
> Give us your thoughts on what direction you would like to see MythTV
> take now it's original purpose is slowing being killed of.
>
>
> Paul H.
>
Hello,

As a UK user I record most of my TV from OTA using DVB-T/T2 EIT and I use
MythTV every day. I use Mytharchive and occasionally Firefox browser on the
same box as MythTV for BBC iplayer and Britbox.

Mythfrontend/backend user interface is fine as are the various themes.

Installing/upgrading can be an adventure! But having written down the steps
after several clean installs/database restores I get there in the end.

Thanks for all the work involved in MythTV. If you could extend the number of
hours in the day so I could catch up with all the recordings I have on MythTV
that would be great.

Regards Steve.



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Paul Harrison wrote:

> We can see from the number of Scheduled Direct users and the Smolt
> data that MythTV is losing users at an ever increasing rate.  We think
> one reason for this is it's getting harder and harder to record stuff
> because more services are becoming encrypted requiring proprietary
> boxes to view and record content and some services are moving to an
> on-demand type of service that are hard or impossible to record.
>
>
> So the question is what improvements would you like to see in MythTV
> in the future that would persuade you to continue to use it? Would you
> like to see better support for YouTube for example or a better video
> media library. Better music player? Support for IPTV services? What
> plugins do you use?  What plugins would you like to see? Are you happy
> with the user interface or would you like to see a more modern one?
>
> Give us your thoughts on what direction you would like to see MythTV
> take now it's original purpose is slowing being killed of.

I have been using MythtV since 2012, recording off FTA satellite
broadcasts. For encrypted stuff (local telly), I have a receiver card
with a CAM module.

I have two satellite dishes and six LNBs - the two-three times a year of
re-tuning/-scanning to keep up with channels moving around can get a
little tedious. I think there is room for improvement.

Also, the ability to specify the language of the audio stream(s) when
recording would be nice - I get lots of recordings in languages I don't
understand.


--
Per Jessen, Zürich (19.8°C)
http://www.dns24.ch/ - free dynamic DNS, made in Switzerland.

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On Fri, Jun 4, 2021 at 3:21 PM Steve Goodey <steve@goodey.org> wrote:

> Thanks for all the work involved in MythTV. If you could extend the number
> of
> hours in the day so I could catch up with all the recordings I have on
> MythTV
> that would be great.
>
>
> +1. That would be the most useful plugin of all time. ¯\_(?)_/¯

> So the question is what improvements would you like to see in MythTV in the future that would persuade you to continue to use it? Would you like to see better support for YouTube
> for example or a better video media library. Better music player? Support for IPTV services? What plugins do you use? What plugins would you like to see? Are you happy with the
> user interface or would you like to see a more modern one?

Hi,

I have been a user for 10y+ and we continue to use it all the time. Its great and huge thanks to the developers and those who support on this list.

I run it on CentOS 7 and are currently on 0.29, I want to update but frankly don't have the time. I use it as a backend with Kodi on Windows on the front - it's a pragmatic solution, means we can do other things with the frontend, can update the OS easily and Kodi has soooooo many plugins.

Want I want
I really want some way to re-organize recordings in an easy manner. Something through MythWeb would be desirable with drag and drop being absolutely fantastic. I have Doctor Who in so many areas because of the different titles not to mention movie franchises like James Bond, Despicable, Cars and so on.

In New Zealand we still get a good selection of FTA and no encryption so, yeah, keep it rockin'

Tony

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On 04/06/2021 20:39, Per Jessen wrote:
> Paul Harrison wrote:
>
>> We can see from the number of Scheduled Direct users and the Smolt
>> data that MythTV is losing users at an ever increasing rate.  We think
>> one reason for this is it's getting harder and harder to record stuff
>> because more services are becoming encrypted requiring proprietary
>> boxes to view and record content and some services are moving to an
>> on-demand type of service that are hard or impossible to record.
>>
>>
>> So the question is what improvements would you like to see in MythTV
>> in the future that would persuade you to continue to use it? Would you
>> like to see better support for YouTube for example or a better video
>> media library. Better music player? Support for IPTV services? What
>> plugins do you use?  What plugins would you like to see? Are you happy
>> with the user interface or would you like to see a more modern one?
>>
>> Give us your thoughts on what direction you would like to see MythTV
>> take now it's original purpose is slowing being killed of.
>
> I have been using MythtV since 2012, recording off FTA satellite
> broadcasts. For encrypted stuff (local telly), I have a receiver card
> with a CAM module.
>
> I have two satellite dishes and six LNBs - the two-three times a year of
> re-tuning/-scanning to keep up with channels moving around can get a
> little tedious. I think there is room for improvement.
>
> Also, the ability to specify the language of the audio stream(s) when
> recording would be nice - I get lots of recordings in languages I don't
> understand.

Playback in Mythfrontend has the NEXTAUDIO key, by default + , which
ought to step through the available options. For DVB-T/T2 in the UK I
think that usually gives an
audio-description-for-the-visually-handicapped track, but you will
probably have others.
>
>

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Paul Harrison says:
> So the question is what improvements would you like to see in MythTV
> in the future that would persuade you to continue to use it? Would
> you like to see better support for YouTube for example or a better
> video media library.

I find that I use YouTube 95% of the time on my Shield. The SmartTube Next client often breaks; a better, ad-skipping YouTube client within MythFrontend would be very welcome.

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On 04/06/2021 18:35, Max Hodgson wrote:
>
> and embrace free steaming TV services Youtube, bitchute etc.
>
I can't argue with you there :)

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On 04/06/2021 21:54, John Pilkington wrote:
> On 04/06/2021 20:39, Per Jessen wrote:
>>
>> Also, the ability to specify the language of the audio stream(s) when
>> recording would be nice - I get lots of recordings in languages I don't
>> understand.
>
> Playback in Mythfrontend has the NEXTAUDIO key, by default + , which ought to step through the
> available options.  For DVB-T/T2 in the UK I think that usually gives an
> audio-description-for-the-visually-handicapped track, but you will probably have others.
>
Perhaps there should be a way to specify the desired language in setup or the recording rule? Use
that if it exists and if not, a suitable default?

I wouldn't think that multiple language options would be thought a priority to a US user, but there
are french and spanish services, if not other local language transmissions.

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On Fri, 4 Jun 2021, 11:27 pm Paul Harrison, <mythtv@mythqml.net> wrote:

>
>
> So the question is what improvements would you like to see in MythTV in
> the future that would persuade you to continue to use it? Would you like
> to see better support for YouTube for example or a better video media
> library. Better music player? Support for IPTV services? What plugins do
> you use? What plugins would you like to see? Are you happy with the
> user interface or would you like to see a more modern one?
>

I've been using MythTV for 20 years. These days I still record FTA but even
though I love Mythfrontend I use other frontends to watch (such as
Leanfront from a Google TV device).

I agree with other commenters that the loss of MythBuntu was huge because
that made a very complex setup process easier. And the LIRC setup is
impossible difficult to expect most people to deal with.

I had a play with TV Headend a while back. It's back-end only, but the
installation and setup is quick and easy so worth looking at for ideas on
how to improve ease of install for MythTV.

The other area I think could be improved a lot is channel setup, especially
rescans and the issues that causes with duplicate channels I remember it
being a lot easier in TV Headend.

I really hope MythTV doesn't go away because it's incredibly powerful. But
I guess that's also why it's difficult for people who don't like to fiddle
with tech.

>

I've been with mythtv for a very long time!

Here are my suggestions:

A) Continue to focus on mythtvbackend, since recording/commercial
flagging/transcoding are the favorite features.
B) De-emphasize the mythtv-frontend, because the frontend seems always
lagging Plex / Kodi, feature set, performance, and polish.
C) Instead of having your own mythtv-frontend, work to improve plugins and
integrations with Kodi/Plex, Android and other platforms.

I am an old-school mythtv person. I still run mythtv and the
mythtv-frontend because I am so used to it and it works for my purposes. I
run them on a mini-mac and a raspberry pi 4.
On my windows box, I use Kodi to access the recordings and watch from it.



On Fri, Jun 4, 2021 at 6:28 AM Paul Harrison <mythtv@mythqml.net> wrote:

> We can see from the number of Scheduled Direct users and the Smolt data
> that MythTV is losing users at an ever increasing rate. We think one
> reason for this is it's getting harder and harder to record stuff
> because more services are becoming encrypted requiring proprietary boxes
> to view and record content and some services are moving to an on-demand
> type of service that are hard or impossible to record.
>
>
> So the question is what improvements would you like to see in MythTV in
> the future that would persuade you to continue to use it? Would you like
> to see better support for YouTube for example or a better video media
> library. Better music player? Support for IPTV services? What plugins do
> you use? What plugins would you like to see? Are you happy with the
> user interface or would you like to see a more modern one?
>
>
> Give us your thoughts on what direction you would like to see MythTV
> take now it's original purpose is slowing being killed of.
>
>
> Paul H.
>
> _______________________________________________
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> MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org
>

On 6/4/21 5:47 PM, Phill Edwards wrote:
> I agree with other commenters that the loss of MythBuntu was huge because that made a very complex setup process easier. And the LIRC setup is
> impossible difficult to expect most people to deal with. 

Just FYI, there are posts on the Forum from 'heyted' who resurrected
the control panel. I haven't used myself though.

https://forum.mythtv.org/viewtopic.php?t=3789#p18207

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I have to mostly agree with the previous points both as a user and previous
maintainer of MythTV on RPM Fusion.

The up front setup can be quite difficult and honestly, if my system took a
dump, it would take me quite some time to fix it.

I've already given up on live TV playback. It broke some time ago and I
fixed it, and then some time later it broke again (exits pretty much
immediately) and I've just stopped worrying about it. The only time it
matters is for a special live TV event like the superbowl. Everything else
we just watch "later".

That brings me to my second point. I don't use the frontend anymore in
favor of Plex. All of my TVs either have a Roku box, or have it built in. I
think the "frontend" game is basically lost. Like others LIRC has become
hopelessly broken and I just don't have time to "make it work anymore".
I've previously conveyed that I thought of MythTV as Labor of Love, but I
just can't devote the time to it anymore. I just need things to work.

So what does that mean? I would like MythTV to focus on the things it does
best, record things. I would LOVE the mythweb to direct backend
configuration to get the attention it deserves and FINISH!

I would like Plex integration to be seamless.

Those are the things that will keep me using it even though I don't
maintain the RPM Fusion packages anymore.

Thanks,
Richard

On 6/4/21 6:17 AM, Paul Harrison wrote:
> We can see from the number of Scheduled Direct users and the Smolt data
> that MythTV is losing users at an ever increasing rate.  We think one
> reason for this is it's getting harder and harder to record stuff
> because more services are becoming encrypted requiring proprietary boxes
> to view and record content and some services are moving to an on-demand
> type of service that are hard or impossible to record.
>
>
> So the question is what improvements would you like to see in MythTV in
> the future that would persuade you to continue to use it? Would you like
> to see better support for YouTube for example or a better video media
> library. Better music player? Support for IPTV services? What plugins do
> you use?  What plugins would you like to see? Are you happy with the
> user interface or would you like to see a more modern one?
>
>
> Give us your thoughts on what direction you would like to see MythTV
> take now it's original purpose is slowing being killed of.
>
>
> Paul H.
>

Nearly 18 years ago when I first started using MythTV, there was little
that did all the things Myth aspired to. the mythical convergence of tv
(dvr), videos, music and other plugins was well ahead of its time.
Things have changed a lot since then. We now have relatively cheap
streaming boxes that let us pick the best options for all the things
those plugins do.

Over those same years, the plugins have all languished. Years ago there
was a developer that was doing a major rewrite of MythMusic. After a
year or so, he disappeared and his branch was abandoned. Someone else
came in behind him and completely changed the schema to match some open
source player. That completely messed up everything for me and I've not
used it much since. Today we have streaming services with pretty much
any music you could ever ask for available. My personal collection
hasn't grown much in several years.

MythVideo still works decently for those with collections of ripped
media or personal videos. The problem is you're limited to platforms
the Myth frontend runs on. For anyone that wants access to videos from
other devices, things like Plex/Emby/Jellyfin and Kodi are also great
and have clients on multiple devices. If you want to use other devices
for playback, there's not much purpose to keep using MythVideo.

Myth Images was great years ago. There wasn't really any alternative.
Now with Google Photos and Apple Photos (on AppleTV) with all the innate
organizing and tagging, Myth Images doesn't offer much other than
needing a lot of manual attention copying images around and organizing them.

News and Weather are well covered by smart tv/streaming box apps. Myth
Browser is better achieved by casting from your phone if you want to
show it on the tv. I don't see much need to try to improve on the
plethora of options available.

The one big advantage Myth plugins do have is privacy. If all you want
to do is curate your own media collections and not worry about how some
app developer might use your viewing history/habits, Myth wins.

Where Mythtv still shines is in recording. I've played with some of the
options from Plex and Silicon Dust. They can't touch the scheduler of
Myth. Well, at least for those that don't mind using Power Search and a
little bit of sql. So long as cable card tuners are still supported by
the cable companies (I'm guessing it will be killed off in the next five
years) or that OTA is enough, Myth's backend is hard to beat.

I've not used the frontend on a dedicated pc for at least a year now. I
switch between the lean frontend and an android build of the full
frontend on Shields and GoogleTV Chromecasts. This gives me the
original vision of MythTV -- complete convergence. One device and
remote that gives me access to all my sources of media. It's just not
within Myth any more. MythTv is just an app with recorded tv along side
apps from video streaming services, my personal video collection, my
photos, a music streaming service, and short time killing games. All my
scheduling has always been done through Mythweb (which thankfully
continues to work despite lack of priority).

What I'd like to see is more a focus on a frontend app. To take the
leanfront concept to a more polished app. Better integration with
Android TV to find/search content, recommend next episodes of what
you've been watching, quickly resume where you've left off. Perhaps
profile support for different family members. It would be great to
support other platforms too, but AndroidTV/FireTV devices are cheap
enough, focusing there might have the best impact. It would be nice to
have phone apps which allow for transcoding/downloading local copies for
watching while traveling. I currently accomplish this with mythlink and
Plex.

There's really not a need for a full-fledged pc frontend any more.
While it can be fun for tinkerers, I think messing with things like lirc
are a big deterrent to new users (and a pain for long time users every
few years when new versions of lirc break things. Although bluetooth
with the now on life support Harmony hub works great). Especially since
an app on a streaming device/tv just works after installed.

As for the other parts of the current frontend, such as settings,
scheduling, etc, getting all that rolled up in to the in progress web
interface would fill the need.

Mythtv has been great. All the people that have contributed for nearly
20 years are well appreciated. It just seems like modern needs of the
ecosystem likely scratch different itches than what likely attracted
many of those developers to the project to begin with. Some pieces like
the scheduler and recorder are mature and just need occasional
maintenance. Others like the frontend really need to go a different
direction and this likely excludes rolling a custom video player and
manipulating streams.


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> On 5 Jun 2021, at 6:47 am, Phill Edwards <philledwards@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Fri, 4 Jun 2021, 11:27 pm Paul Harrison, <mythtv@mythqml.net <mailto:mythtv@mythqml.net>> wrote:
>
>
> So the question is what improvements would you like to see in MythTV in
> the future that would persuade you to continue to use it? Would you like
> to see better support for YouTube for example or a better video media
> library. Better music player? Support for IPTV services? What plugins do
> you use? What plugins would you like to see? Are you happy with the
> user interface or would you like to see a more modern one?
>
> I've been using MythTV for 20 years. These days I still record FTA but even though I love Mythfrontend I use other frontends to watch (such as Leanfront from a Google TV device).
>
> I agree with other commenters that the loss of MythBuntu was huge because that made a very complex setup process easier. And the LIRC setup is impossible difficult to expect most people to deal with.
>
> I had a play with TV Headend a while back. It's back-end only, but the installation and setup is quick and easy so worth looking at for ideas on how to improve ease of install for MythTV.
>
> The other area I think could be improved a lot is channel setup, especially rescans and the issues that causes with duplicate channels I remember it being a lot easier in TV Headend.
>
> I really hope MythTV doesn't go away because it's incredibly powerful. But I guess that's also why it's difficult for people who don't like to fiddle with tech.

An issue that incessantly bugs me is meta data. Without doubt some of the issues are not myth but provider but some are myth. EG I retrieve meta data and get correct meta data and artwork. I press [accept] and nothing happens (often it works, often it does not)
Once the video library reaches 100s or 1000s of entries not-having meta data is a real pain. Either other folk do not have issues or noone cares.
What other options do I have, that will preserve or easily retrieve meta data. I tried to untangle myth's version but it is complex and so far I've failed.
In terms of 'going away' I cannot believe that myth codebase will be trashed and building is easy enough so git and make are your friends.

To justify my provider gybe try to retrieve meta data for 'The Gradute' (Dustin Hofman as a youngie)

James

> On 5 Jun 2021, at 4:17 am, <ajp@cantabrian.co.nz> <ajp@cantabrian.co.nz> wrote:
>
> I have been a user for 10y+ and we continue to use it all the time. Its great and huge thanks to the developers and those who support on this list.
>
> I run it on CentOS 7 and are currently on 0.29, I want to update but frankly don't have the time. I use it as a backend with Kodi on Windows on the front - it's a pragmatic solution, means we can do other things with the frontend, can update the OS easily and Kodi has soooooo many plugins.
>
> Want I want
> I really want some way to re-organize recordings in an easy manner. Something through MythWeb would be desirable with drag and drop being absolutely fantastic. I have Doctor Who in so many areas because of the different titles not to mention movie franchises like James Bond, Despicable, Cars and so on.
>
> In New Zealand we still get a good selection of FTA and no encryption so, yeah, keep it rockin'

Oz too.
James

On 04/06/2021 21:17, Paul Harrison wrote:
> We can see from the number of Scheduled Direct users and the Smolt
> data that MythTV is losing users at an ever increasing rate.  We think
> one reason for this is it's getting harder and harder to record stuff
> because more services are becoming encrypted requiring proprietary
> boxes to view and record content and some services are moving to an
> on-demand type of service that are hard or impossible to record.
>
>
> So the question is what improvements would you like to see in MythTV
> in the future that would persuade you to continue to use it? Would you
> like to see better support for YouTube for example or a better video
> media library. Better music player? Support for IPTV services? What
> plugins do you use?  What plugins would you like to see? Are you happy
> with the user interface or would you like to see a more modern one?
>
>
> Give us your thoughts on what direction you would like to see MythTV
> take now it's original purpose is slowing being killed of.
>
>

I use bog standard install with no other frontends, it just works.
Debian buster install and flicr with any old remote that works.

Used it the UK and no in Oz.

Metadata is dreadful in Oz (WA), it has all been bastardised and 1/2 of
it chopped off

Mythtv for us still does what it has always done and does it well.

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Am Freitag, 4. Juni 2021, 15:17:48 CEST schrieb Paul Harrison:

> Give us your thoughts on what direction you would like to see MythTV
> take now it's original purpose is slowing being killed of.

I remember trying to use MythMusic, but as I was used to amarok (of now
clementine), I just either missed too many features there or just was unable
to find them. Can't remember exactly, but having this working would be a great
day.

Also, as a huge fan of retro-gaming I always struggle with integration of
emulators. Especially some time ago with things like higan that imports
evrything into it's own dir-structure, it was really a pita. I switched to
retroarch now, which makes it a bit more comfortable, but an inclusion of
libretro directly in Myth would be a game-changer.

--
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Werner Mahr


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> On 5 Jun 2021, at 3:24 pm, stinga <stinga+mythtv@wolf-rock.com> wrote:
>
> On 04/06/2021 21:17, Paul Harrison wrote:
>> We can see from the number of Scheduled Direct users and the Smolt data that MythTV is losing users at an ever increasing rate. We think one reason for this is it's getting harder and harder to record stuff because more services are becoming encrypted requiring proprietary boxes to view and record content and some services are moving to an on-demand type of service that are hard or impossible to record.
>>
>>
>> So the question is what improvements would you like to see in MythTV in the future that would persuade you to continue to use it? Would you like to see better support for YouTube for example or a better video media library. Better music player? Support for IPTV services? What plugins do you use? What plugins would you like to see? Are you happy with the user interface or would you like to see a more modern one?
>>
>>
>> Give us your thoughts on what direction you would like to see MythTV take now it's original purpose is slowing being killed of.
>>
>>
>
> I use bog standard install with no other frontends, it just works.
> Debian buster install and flicr with any old remote that works.
>
> Used it the UK and no in Oz.
>
> Metadata is dreadful in Oz (WA), it has all been bastardised and 1/2 of it chopped off
>
> Mythtv for us still does what it has always done and does it well.

My bitch about metadata may be related. I too am in WA. Who is screwing up the data? Methought the meta data was global, but I’m certainly struggling

James
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On Fri, 2021-06-04 at 14:17 +0100, Paul Harrison wrote:
> Give us your thoughts on what direction you would like to see MythTV
> take now it's original purpose is slowing being killed of.

FWIW we use MythTV pretty much daily (since ~2006) and are very happy
with it, I suppose we are lucky that there is plenty of decent OTA
content (amongst all the rubbish...) on Freeview DVB here in the UK and
schedules direct works well as a corresponding data source (and is
worth every penny IMHO).

As well as the OTArecording stuff we use mythmusic a fair bit, it's a
little clunky in places but absolutely works ok. We also use mythvideo
a bit for ripped DVD/BD content which also works fine for our use (as
someone else said, so long as we can navigate to the video and play it
everything is fine). I occasionally find myself grabbing stuff off BBC
iplayer into mythvideo (e.g. when we discover a series too late after
the OTA repeats of the first episode have all passed already). My wife
did used to use the old mythgallery a bit but the new one isn't quite
up to it and I think she mostly uses the chromecast functionality in
google photos now anyway since she tends to have the photos there
anyway. I don't think we use any of the other plugins.

Our primary FE in the living room is mythfrontend on the same machine
as mythbackend, the integrated Intel graphics work fine for everything
we have, easily deals with OTA FreeviewHD but up to Blu-Ray content (in
mythvideo) is fine too. Audio is a simple optical out to an amp and
stereo speakers, so nothing complicated. Recording is via a pair of
Hauppauge WinTV-dualHD DVB dongles. The system runs Debian testing with
the packages from deb-multimedia.org which very are well maintained
IMHO, although I'm pretty technical so YMMV, personally I don't have
much trouble with the maintenance side of things or LIRC etc but I can
see how folks who just want an out-of-the-box appliance might have
issues.

We have a second frontend upstairs running leanfront on an Nvidia
shield, which also works great.

For occasional streaming (e.g. non-BBC (non-iplayer) where we missed
the first OTA or sometimes Amazon Prime) we tend to use Chromecast (an
Ultra dongle on the living room TV and via the Shield upstairs) which
works fine for us, I don't feel any particular need to have mythtv do
that as well (even if the ads to grate a bit). The harmony remote
downstairs makes it reasonable seamless to switch HDMI inputs and the
shield upstairs does it all anyway. The majority of content we get
through mythtv not streaming though.

We barely ever watch live TV and when we do mythfrontend works well
enough, but we don't channel surf at all -- more often than not we
watch in-progress recordings rather than using actual live TV.

Thanks to all the devs for what (for us at least) is a fantastic
project.

On the subject of dev while I have the capabilities to do C++ etc I
perpetually have more ambition than time and in any case my personal
itches are generally pretty minor so they don't often get to the top of
my stack, but I do often wonder if there is something more useful I
could be doing to help/contribute.

Cheers & thanks again,
Ian.

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On Fri, 2021-06-04 at 14:17 +0100, Paul Harrison wrote:
> We can see from the number of Scheduled Direct users and the Smolt
> data

I'm an SD user so I suppose I'm reflected there but I don't recall ever
opting either in or out from this smolt thing (but it's been 15 years,
so...). I see "HardwareProfileEnabled" is 0 in my settings db so I
suppose I'm not showing up there, I'll rectify that once the family
are finished with what they are watching.

Ian.

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So I've been using mythtv since 2007 when I replaced my replayTV with an
HDPVR. At the time, the main driver was to have a new hobby to tinker with
plus record video at 720p/1080i resolutions.

Over the years, my family still uses MythFrontend on most of our TVs via
small low powered computers (was zotac ions, now nucs), but of late I've
been seeing the family (and even myself) starting to use Plex on our
Rokus/Firesticks more and more often for music, videos, and photos. A large
reason is that they can pick up where they left off with their ipads
(...they have mac laptops and will use mythfrontend there, but that's
probably just a bit of an appeasement to me and my more recent. compiling
hobby :) ). I've also noticed, we tend to watch fewer recorded shows these
days as the family has moved to online media (youtube and other streaming
services).

I guess this is a long winded way of saying I agree with many of the past
posters. Focus on the backend and recording capabilities. These are still
top notch and I won't be using any other similar services while MythTV is
still available and working. Either keep mythweb going and/or complete the
update (I still use mythweb to manage recording - as does my family -
because it is so easy). FInally, I'd definitely be supportive of a better
Plex or Jellyfin plugin for accessing (and maybe managing) recordings.

We've used mythtv for at least 15 year, my children, now 15 and 17, grew up
on it and found it easy to watch shows unattended even before they could
read.

It takes time to set up an instance, then to tweak it the way you want. i
started with Knoppix distro, then moved over to mythbuntu, but still the
tweaks were necessary. I run a main backend and nuc front ends and now
they just work, but every dist-upgrade, every mythtv major upgrade seems to
bring its own problems. I held off for a while upgrading from ubuntu 16.04
to 18.08, and now finally 20.04 for fear of spending a weekend
troubleshooting and repairing mythtv.

Mythtv used to be my main media player using the scheduler for cable, first
analog then clear QAM and now cable card with HDhomerun and mythvideo
managing my media.

Nowadays mythvideo can no longer handle the size of my media collection and
PLeX handles that duty. Plex also shines allowing easily sharing my media
with family and friends both inside and outside my household. Plex handles
the playback of almost all media and recording from myth via mythlink.

I prefer using mythtv's player because it handles everything, without
transcoding. I configured the playback setting to playback everything at
120%, along with commercial detection, skipping and the lightning fast
seeks when commercial detection fails, I can catch up on all the nonsense I
record in no time.

Outside the main dedicated frontends, I also use the android frontend,
which has great potential. It is a drop in app that mostly just works. I
have used it on FireTV 4k and nVidia Shield, both playback smoothly. But
the startup and shutdown times are a downer, I fear anyone not familiar
with mythtv will think it's locked up and become frustrated. Using the
barebones remotes takes some getting used to, but for anyone familiar with
streaming dongles, it should be a short learning curve. But the lack of
button minimizes the features of the frontend player, which the next
logical step is a dedicated player for android that strips out or hides all
the extras that aren't needed but presents the familiar interface we all
know and love.

Leanfront is fine and playback is exceptional, but the media UI needs some
help. I don't find it intuitive enough to give it to my grandparents or
Inlaws

LiveTV is a double edged sword and I haven't found a solution better than
mythtv yet. Yes mythtv's live tv is buggy, but it mostly works, there's no
to very little buffering, a small blip in between guide programs. There is
the occasional lockup, but not enough to complain too much. I wouldn't use
live tv but the older generation grew up with linear TV and must watch it
that way.

The main problem with mythtv is there are too many moving parts and an
enthusiast can't understand them all: mysql, xmltv, lirc, not to mention
tuning hardware. Someone looking to set up a media manager can just run
plex, emby, or jellyfin in a docker container and be done. Docker being
the only "new" technology to learn, but even with today's NAS's like unraid
or synology, that isn't much of a hurdle.

With all my ramblings above, I intend to continue to use mythtv to record
as long as possible, but I've moved on from my youthful tinkering and have
new hobbies that I want to spend my time on and getting the "TV" to work
isn't high on the list. If the bar gets too high I would likely move on
out of convenience. I've just come up on the next renewal for schedules
direct and I will be signing up for another year and I hope for more to
come.

Thank you everyone for all the dedication to MythTV, it has been a great
journey so far.


On Sat, Jun 5, 2021 at 7:47 AM John Hoyt <john.hoyt@gmail.com> wrote:

> So I've been using mythtv since 2007 when I replaced my replayTV with an
> HDPVR. At the time, the main driver was to have a new hobby to tinker with
> plus record video at 720p/1080i resolutions.
>
> Over the years, my family still uses MythFrontend on most of our TVs via
> small low powered computers (was zotac ions, now nucs), but of late I've
> been seeing the family (and even myself) starting to use Plex on our
> Rokus/Firesticks more and more often for music, videos, and photos. A large
> reason is that they can pick up where they left off with their ipads
> (...they have mac laptops and will use mythfrontend there, but that's
> probably just a bit of an appeasement to me and my more recent. compiling
> hobby :) ). I've also noticed, we tend to watch fewer recorded shows these
> days as the family has moved to online media (youtube and other streaming
> services).
>
> I guess this is a long winded way of saying I agree with many of the past
> posters. Focus on the backend and recording capabilities. These are still
> top notch and I won't be using any other similar services while MythTV is
> still available and working. Either keep mythweb going and/or complete the
> update (I still use mythweb to manage recording - as does my family -
> because it is so easy). FInally, I'd definitely be supportive of a better
> Plex or Jellyfin plugin for accessing (and maybe managing) recordings.
> _______________________________________________
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> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
> MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org
>

On 6/5/21 12:12 AM, BP wrote:
>
> Where Mythtv still shines is in recording.  I've played with some of the options from Plex and Silicon Dust.  They can't touch the scheduler of Myth.  Well, at least for those that don't mind using Power Search and a little bit of sql.  So long as cable card tuners are still supported by the cable companies (I'm guessing it will be killed off in the next five years) or that OTA is enough, Myth's backend is hard to beat.

Plex was awful for storage handling.

When I played with it -

* it didn't handle re-recording glitched shows.
* Had less comprehensive recording options.
* I had to specify a storage path for each recording item rather than Myth's superior pre-config of a pool of storage.
(maybe I don't want a RAID0 or RAID5|6? Maybe I just want to slap another drive into a system and add it to the pool? But having to configure it for every added schedule item was annoying.)

Yea... Plex's recording was way inferior to MythTVs.

And I'm with you on the privacy thing...

AND -- except for schedules (but not really if getting OTA schedule programming as a backup), the internet could disappear tomorrow, and if I'm home I don't notice a thing.

While I don't mind using some cloud services when needing a relay, I prefer when the network at home keeps functioning as much as possible when the Internet connection is down.

My friend just went through this last weekend where he accidentally cut his ISP feed to his house that was only bured about 1-2 inches below his grass. His internet was out for like 2-3 days. He streams everything. He said it was very interesting what things continued to work and what didn't -- and what things were SUPPOSED to keep working, but didn't. Oops!

 -Ben
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>Give us your thoughts on what direction you would like to see MythTV
take now it's original purpose is slowing being killed of.

I'm a USA Comcast user and a long tong time mythtv user, backend on
Ubuntu and mostly classic frontend on Ubuntu. My biggest disappointment
is with the commercial detection software. It does work well on a few
programs but it does poorly on most. I have not seen any improvement
over the years.

I envy the platforms that employ some outside service to do the marking
by whatever technology or human efforts they employ. I wonder if
schedules direct might consider a premium service that integrates
commercial marking data from one of the commercial services.

On a different technology idea I also wonder if there is a machine
learning approach that could be employed to train the detection software.

Although mythtv is by far my primary, I do have a Comcast box to deal
with ON Demand, streams, and as a backup in case there is a mythtv
glitch. However, it would be great if Mythtv had something like "video
Download Helper" to handle streams. I don't really know what works well
for this, I haven't actually had much luck experimenting directly with
Video Download Helper.



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[I work for Schedules Direct]

>> Metadata is dreadful in Oz (WA), it has all been bastardised and 1/2 of it chopped off
>> Mythtv for us still does what it has always done and does it well.
>My bitch about metadata may be related. I too am in WA. Who is screwing up the data? Methought the meta data was global, but I’m certainly struggling

Schedules Direct has data for Australia, and personally I think our metadata is pretty good.

People brought up the example of "The Graduate". Here's what our data for The Graduate looks like. Down in the ratings area, it looks like Australia has coded it as "M" for "Adult Themes"

{
"programID": "MV000072350000",
"titles": [{
"title120": "The Graduate",
"titleLanguage": "en"
}],
"descriptions": {
"description1000": [{
"descriptionLanguage": "en",
"description": "Benjamin Braddock (Dustin Hoffman) has just finished college and, back at his parents' house, he's trying to avoid the one question everyone keeps asking: What does he want to do with his life? An unexpected diversion crops up when he is seduced by Mrs. Robinson (Anne Bancroft), a bored housewife and friend of his parents. But what begins as a fun tryst turns complicated when Benjamin falls for the one woman Mrs. Robinson demanded he stay away from, her daughter, Elaine (Katharine Ross)."
}],
"description100": [{
"descriptionLanguage": "en",
"description": "Based on the novel by Charles Webb."
}]
},
"showType": "Feature Film",
"entityType": "Movie",
"genres": ["Comedy drama"],
"cast": [.{
"billingOrder": "01",
"role": "Actor",
"nameId": "18072",
"personId": "18072",
"name": "Dustin Hoffman",
"characterName": "Benjamin Braddock"
}, {
"billingOrder": "02",
"role": "Actor",
"nameId": "93",
"personId": "93",
"name": "Anne Bancroft",
"characterName": "Mrs. Robinson"
}, {
"billingOrder": "03",
"role": "Actor",
"nameId": "35923",
"personId": "35923",
"name": "Katharine Ross",
"characterName": "Elaine Robinson"

<snip>

{
"billingOrder": "12",
"role": "Actor",
"nameId": "121360",
"personId": "121360",
"name": "Marion Lorne",
"characterName": "Miss De Witt"
}],
"crew": [.{
"billingOrder": "01",
"role": "Director",
"nameId": "46447",
"personId": "46447",
"name": "Mike Nichols"
}, {
"billingOrder": "02",
"role": "Writer (Novel)",
"nameId": "479561",
"personId": "470686",
"name": "Charles Webb"

<snip>

{
"billingOrder": "20",
"role": "Sound",
"nameId": "489330",
"personId": "480455",
"name": "Jack Solomon"
}],
"contentAdvisory": ["Adult Language", "Adult Situations"],
"contentRating": [.{
"body": "Motion Picture Association",
"code": "PG",
"country": "USA"
}, {
"body": "British Board of Film Classification",
"code": "15",
"country": "GBR"
},

<snip>

{
"body": "Australian Classification Board",
"code": "M",
"country": "AUS",
"contentWarning": ["Adult Themes"]
},
{
"body": "Instituto de Cinematograf\u00eda y de las Artes Visuales",
"code": "16",
"country": "ARG"
}],
"movie": {
"qualityRating": [.{
"ratingsBody": "Gracenote",
"rating": "4",
"minRating": "1",
"maxRating": "4",
"increment": ".5"
}],
"year": "1967",
"duration": 6300
},
"keyWords": {
"Subject": ["May-December romance", "Aimless youth", "Post-college", "New love"],
"Time Period": ["1960s"],
"Theme": ["Temptation", "Growing up", "Love"],
"General": ["Teen", "Weddings", "Long-distance running"],
"Character": ["College graduate", "Lawyer", "Sexy woman", "College student"],
"Setting": ["Hotel", "California", "Campus", "Family home", "Wedding"],
"Mood": ["Witty", "Amusing", "Sad"]
},
"officialURL": "http:\/\/www.rialtopictures.com\/catalogue\/the-graduate",
"hasImageArtwork": true,
"hasMovieArtwork": true,
"MD5": "860ccbad8e4f91af416568b14b6d388d",
"md5": "hgzLrY5Pka9BZWixS204jQ"
}

And the artwork is tied to the programID, so there's no guessing:

https://schedulesdirect-api20141201.s3.us-east-1.amazonaws.com/assets/p4265_d_v5_aa.jpg

We have 7-day trials if you want to try the data before subscribing.

I don't know if anyone has extended the mythmetadatalookup to use Schedules Direct as a data source for Schedules Direct subscribers though.


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> I wonder if schedules direct might consider a premium service that
integrates
commercial marking data from one of the commercial services.

I think this was looked into, and the issue was programs offsets. You add 2m
of preroll, but I add 5m. So now the EDL needs to be scaled for each user.


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On Sat, Jun 5, 2021 at 3:56 PM Ken Mandelberg <km@mathcs.emory.edu> wrote:

> I envy the platforms that employ some outside service to do the marking
> by whatever technology or human efforts they employ.

The ones that get it "mostly" right reportedly employ
what some call skip monkeys(*), and while various
AI can provide (sometimes good) hints (and there
are even some research papers documenting the
results), humans are still basically better in the final
judgement after any hints might be used. It should
be noted that even those services providing
commercial detection usually limit the stations and
programs that they do detection on (presumably
due to cost).

A long time ago there was an attempt to create a
crowd-based skip-monkey service, but it never
happened.

Remember that in the US, the commercial providers
do not want you to be able to skip commercials,
and neither do the stations (for if no one watches
the commercials, those stations are not going to
get income from advertisers), so they make sure
that any heuristic that becomes widely used is
mitigated against, resulting in a cat and mouse
game(**)(***).

If one doesn't want commercials (and most people
do not), more and more content producers are
moving to providing subscription based services
that are commercial free with additional fees.
And reportedly there are enough people willing
to put their money where their mouth is to pay.




(*) The skip monkeys watch the actual programs
and make the skip points; there is a thought that
some number of multiple monkeys have to agree
to verify that the skip point is accurate, and the skip
point uses in-program metadata (reportedly the CC
data) to make sure that the offset works no matter
the various time bases used (which also requires
that the playback device provide the needed stream
access to align the skip points across recordings).

(**) When transitioning used a black image (or
two), and commercial detection used that, the
stations eliminated the black image. When
logo detection was used, the stations removed
the logo earlier and added it back later. And
so on and so on.

(***) Of course some of the heuristics still work
some of the time. Which is often more
frustrating than not working at all, although
not working at all is frustrating too if you
expect it to be available.
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On Sat, 5 Jun 2021 11:11:21 -0500, you wrote:

>> I wonder if schedules direct might consider a premium service that
>integrates
>commercial marking data from one of the commercial services.
>
>I think this was looked into, and the issue was programs offsets. You add 2m
>of preroll, but I add 5m. So now the EDL needs to be scaled for each user.

That should not be a real problem as the MythTV database stores the
actual start time of a recording plus the scheduled start time, so it
knows what the preroll is for any recording. This is already used for
an optional feature in the frontend where it will start playback at
the scheduled start time instead of the start of the recording.

What is a problem though is that lots of broadcasters do not actually
start their programming at the scheduled times.
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On 05/06/2021 18:20, Stephen Worthington wrote:
> On Sat, 5 Jun 2021 11:11:21 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>> I wonder if schedules direct might consider a premium service that
>> integrates
>> commercial marking data from one of the commercial services.
>>
>> I think this was looked into, and the issue was programs offsets. You add 2m
>> of preroll, but I add 5m. So now the EDL needs to be scaled for each user.
>
> That should not be a real problem as the MythTV database stores the
> actual start time of a recording plus the scheduled start time, so it
> knows what the preroll is for any recording. This is already used for
> an optional feature in the frontend where it will start playback at
> the scheduled start time instead of the start of the recording.
>
> What is a problem though is that lots of broadcasters do not actually
> start their programming at the scheduled times.
>
This is affecting me at the moment. I watch cycling and the Criterium de Dauphine is currently on
(UK) ITV4. So far, so good, but it follows the Roland Garros Tennis, which almost always over-runs.
Sometimes it is an hour late and I've had to put 65 minutes post-roll.

In that situation I have no idea how RK's commercial marking data would cope.

I believe that this is a general problem with sport programs, especially in the US, but it can be
experienced around the world. Apart from adding an automatic hour post-roll to every sports program
I have no answer.

I have always added 5 minutes pre-roll to all my schedules. Most programs start near enough that
there is no problem, but one or two channels seem to 'jump the gun' too often. Now that playback
jumps to the start of the program, not the start of the file, it is easy enough to go back a few
seconds if it began early.

--

Mike Perkins

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On Sat, 2021-06-05 at 11:55 -0400, Ken Mandelberg wrote:
>  >Give us your thoughts on what direction you would like to see
> MythTV
> take now it's original purpose is slowing being killed of.
>
> I'm a USA Comcast user and a long tong time mythtv user, backend on
> Ubuntu and mostly classic frontend on Ubuntu. My biggest
> disappointment
> is with the commercial detection software. It does work well on a few
> programs but it does poorly on most. I have not seen any improvement
> over the years.
>
> I envy the platforms that employ some outside service to do the
> marking
> by whatever technology or human efforts they employ. I wonder if
> schedules direct might consider a premium service that integrates
> commercial marking data from one of the commercial services.
>
> On a different technology idea I also wonder if there is a machine
> learning approach that could be employed to train the detection
> software.
>
> Although mythtv is by far my primary, I do have a Comcast box to deal
> with ON Demand, streams, and as a backup in case there is a mythtv
> glitch. However, it would be great if Mythtv had something like
> "video
> Download Helper" to handle streams. I don't really know what works
> well
> for this, I haven't actually had much luck experimenting directly
> with
> Video Download Helper.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://email.mg.glenb.net/c/eJxNjssOwiAQRb-m7CS8qQsWbvyPoQwtCVBT0MS_F42JTmYz555JbnBLhKAVSU56QMnNHIAbZEHZEI33QkodAIMeIywTktEFCuZJsTVj9bRiJ5tDHeOQZPRKn9UwLRez0sDtjIZxT7Lber9N8jKJ69icWm-0PPvWH3Q_1oEKpFygfsNU4_6GH-N0b3g0crj_czT4_b8ArBhARg
> http://email.mg.glenb.net/c/eJxFjc0OgjAQhJ-G3mxK_8BDD1486TOQLbtAY0GFRePb28SDkzl9mS-DoR8AnRUpmAhkat8i1J4U2gYHH6M2xiEQuhLdKG2U7GGmXFk1ZlqiXIjFFAgiegde26FxFsD79liTO9qIjoxVIoeJ-VGZU6XPpe90S3L-8MQveV_HQq6QclrG7pI27ojTcydmEmv4rQ77RutWXv_SF_PyPI8
> MythTV Forums: http://email.mg.glenb.net/c/eJxFjDsOwyAQBU9juiBgwWYLijS5x-Jd25H8iQBHyu1jKUWephmN9DiNE3Hw6pkgk4DtI5PtxbAfeOpzdgCBSThcc4NxYPRIm6ydN_Mqe9a7NLUkQqSAxiLGwSEYm4ExxOjH4FnIqjUtrb1qB_fOPS6mo5yb3j5taW99lFmV9JPbWaXU6_7fvq_HMzI

i had same issues on commercial skips. i found that comskip works much
better and you can create different 'ini' files for different channels.
i use mostly ota and cable box. i wrote a script to replace myth's
detection with comskip and spent a little time experimenting to make 3
different profiles for ini files for different channels and its working
really good for me. also comskip can do processing as the programs
record. still not perfect but very close to perfect on the
shows/channels i am using. i'm not much of bash scripting person so its
still a work in progress, but working. if anybody wants it, email me
and i'll send it. i have it set up to act as replacement for
mythcommflag or post record user job depending upon the variables. i'm
on arch linux and comskip is in the aur for arch. i assume something
similar for other distros.

On 6/5/21 3:52 PM, glen wrote:
> On Sat, 2021-06-05 at 11:55 -0400, Ken Mandelberg wrote:
>>  >Give us your thoughts on what direction you would like to see MythTV
>> take now it's original purpose is slowing being killed of.
>>
>> I'm a USA Comcast user and a long tong time mythtv user, backend on
>> Ubuntu and mostly classic frontend on Ubuntu. My biggest disappointment
>> is with the commercial detection software. It does work well on a few
>> programs but it does poorly on most. I have not seen any improvement
>> over the years.
>>
>> I envy the platforms that employ some outside service to do the marking
>> by whatever technology or human efforts they employ. I wonder if
>> schedules direct might consider a premium service that integrates
>> commercial marking data from one of the commercial services.
>>
>> On a different technology idea I also wonder if there is a machine
>> learning approach that could be employed to train the detection software.
>>
>> Although mythtv is by far my primary, I do have a Comcast box to deal
>> with ON Demand, streams, and as a backup in case there is a mythtv
>> glitch. However, it would be great if Mythtv had something like "video
>> Download Helper" to handle streams. I don't really know what works well
>> for this, I haven't actually had much luck experimenting directly with
>> Video Download Helper.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mythtv-users mailing list
>> mythtv-users@mythtv.org <mailto:mythtv-users@mythtv.org>
>> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>> <http://email.mg.glenb.net/c/eJxNjssOwiAQRb-m7CS8qQsWbvyPoQwtCVBT0MS_F42JTmYz555JbnBLhKAVSU56QMnNHIAbZEHZEI33QkodAIMeIywTktEFCuZJsTVj9bRiJ5tDHeOQZPRKn9UwLRez0sDtjIZxT7Lber9N8jKJ69icWm-0PPvWH3Q_1oEKpFygfsNU4_6GH-N0b3g0crj_czT4_b8ArBhARg>
>> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
>> <http://email.mg.glenb.net/c/eJxFjc0OgjAQhJ-G3mxK_8BDD1486TOQLbtAY0GFRePb28SDkzl9mS-DoR8AnRUpmAhkat8i1J4U2gYHH6M2xiEQuhLdKG2U7GGmXFk1ZlqiXIjFFAgiegde26FxFsD79liTO9qIjoxVIoeJ-VGZU6XPpe90S3L-8MQveV_HQq6QclrG7pI27ojTcydmEmv4rQ77RutWXv_SF_PyPI8>
>> MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org
>> <http://email.mg.glenb.net/c/eJxFjDsOwyAQBU9juiBgwWYLijS5x-Jd25H8iQBHyu1jKUWephmN9DiNE3Hw6pkgk4DtI5PtxbAfeOpzdgCBSThcc4NxYPRIm6ydN_Mqe9a7NLUkQqSAxiLGwSEYm4ExxOjH4FnIqjUtrb1qB_fOPS6mo5yb3j5taW99lFmV9JPbWaXU6_7fvq_HMzI>
>
> i had same issues on commercial skips. i found that comskip works much
> better and you can create different 'ini' files for different
> channels. i use mostly ota and cable box. i wrote a script to replace
> myth's detection with comskip and spent a little time experimenting to
> make 3 different profiles for ini files for different channels and its
> working really good for me. also comskip can do processing as the
> programs record. still not perfect but very close to perfect on the
> shows/channels i am using. i'm not much of bash scripting person so
> its still a work in progress, but working. if anybody wants it, email
> me and i'll send it. i have it set up to act as replacement for
> mythcommflag or post record user job depending upon the variables. i'm
> on arch linux and comskip is in the aur for arch. i assume something
> similar for other distros.
>
I'm also in the USA and use Comcast for my recording, and I've given up
on comm detection.  I blame it on Comcast, when they moved to h264 from
mpg streams it all went to hell (including a noticeable- for me - drop
in video quality).  I long for the day there is competition for Comcast
where I live.

Jeremy

> On 6 Jun 2021, at 12:00 am, <rkulagow@gmail.com> <rkulagow@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> [I work for Schedules Direct]
>
>>> Metadata is dreadful in Oz (WA), it has all been bastardised and 1/2 of it chopped off
>>> Mythtv for us still does what it has always done and does it well.
>> My bitch about metadata may be related. I too am in WA. Who is screwing up the data? Methought the meta data was global, but I’m certainly struggling
>
> Schedules Direct has data for Australia, and personally I think our metadata is pretty good.
>
> People brought up the example of "The Graduate". Here's what our data for The Graduate looks like. Down in the ratings area, it looks like Australia has coded it as "M" for "Adult Themes"
>
> {
> "programID": "MV000072350000",
> "titles": [{
> "title120": "The Graduate",
> "titleLanguage": "en"
> }],
> "descriptions": {
> "description1000": [{
> "descriptionLanguage": "en",
> "description": "Benjamin Braddock (Dustin Hoffman) has just finished college and, back at his parents' house, he's trying to avoid the one question everyone keeps asking: What does he want to do with his life? An unexpected diversion crops up when he is seduced by Mrs. Robinson (Anne Bancroft), a bored housewife and friend of his parents. But what begins as a fun tryst turns complicated when Benjamin falls for the one woman Mrs. Robinson demanded he stay away from, her daughter, Elaine (Katharine Ross)."
> }],

2 questions please

1) If 1/2 the world burned down and if you're lucky the EPG will update that "MyShow" is not on from 8 to 9 but from 9 to 10. while breaking news happens. How good is Schedules Direct at doing likewise?

2) How does myth get configured to use SD for the metadata grabber

Thanks
James

Hiya

just popping out of the woodwork to say HI!

Been using Mythtv since 2004ish and its the centre of my home system. The
Backend has run 24x7 since then with a number of upgrades (including new
mobo / PSU and numerous drive addons). Currently on UB 18 LTS.

Still picking up freeview in the UK using the DVB-T SD though shortly to
upgrade the TV so will probably look at HD then. the RT grabber died so I
moved to Sched Direct - all good since then. Just had the old MCE remote
die and now have a non LIRC replacement up and running like new. Smashing!
Also the NovaT died this year and got a replacement cheap on EB so that's
good too.

I find it just as useful and wonderful as ever and my Son now 10 has grown
up with it! Thanks to all the devs and everyone who helped for the work
making this system what it is!

I've had skirmishes with all the alternatives and this one is still a
winner for me! I know so many people who ran out of humax space (LOL), or
moaned about sky etc costs / data outages / moving house rediculousness and
I'm just always happy, I like to have my programs on a HD so I can go back
and watch again whenever I want. I don't think on demand TV would ever
promise that.

Used to have parties using multiple back ends each with separate playlists
and goom on a projector but these days its all recorded TV and videos from
mythvideo.


- I've often wanted to be able to read youtube videos in so that would
be a nice feature to have. Also is there the possibility of recording BBC
iPlayer programs such as BBC3 as they are covered by the TV license? (I'm
sure there is some small print to prevent that tho) :(
- I have not played with parental options but something to foolproof a
front end for my Son to safe programs when he is finally allowed on in his
room would be good. (This might already exist but all I have seen is the 4
teir security level so far)
- I did play with MythZone once but didn't get much working on that but
a way to interface with IPCameras might be fun but not a priority for most.


Otherwise I'll just continue being happy and very grateful!

Peace.
Al

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2021 14:17:48 +0100
From: Paul Harrison <mythtv@mythqml.net> <mythtv@mythqml.net>
To: "mythtv-users@mythtv.org" <mythtv-users@mythtv.org>
<mythtv-users@mythtv.org> <mythtv-users@mythtv.org>
Subject: [mythtv-users] The future of MythTV
Message-ID: <176d58a6-831c-f89c-531b-511db5666f5a@mythqml.net>
<176d58a6-831c-f89c-531b-511db5666f5a@mythqml.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

We can see from the number of Scheduled Direct users and the Smolt data
that MythTV is losing users at an ever increasing rate.? We think one
reason for this is it's getting harder and harder to record stuff
because more services are becoming encrypted requiring proprietary boxes
to view and record content and some services are moving to an on-demand
type of service that are hard or impossible to record.


So the question is what improvements would you like to see in MythTV in
the future that would persuade you to continue to use it? Would you like
to see better support for YouTube for example or a better video media
library. Better music player? Support for IPTV services? What plugins do
you use?? What plugins would you like to see? Are you happy with the
user interface or would you like to see a more modern one?


Give us your thoughts on what direction you would like to see MythTV
take now it's original purpose is slowing being killed of.


Paul H.

Sorry fumbling using non-batch for the mailer ... I thought asked, but cant find it.

Someone works for Schedules Direct and posted their meta data for 'The Graduate' in response to my complaint.

What is not clear, despite me hunting, is can I use (and how) SD to grab metadata for VIDEOS.

In Oz EIT is quite reasonable.
James
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On 6/6/21 7:26 PM, James Linder wrote:
> Sorry fumbling using non-batch for the mailer ... I thought asked, but cant find it.
>
> Someone works for Schedules Direct and posted their meta data for 'The Graduate' in response to my complaint.
>
> What is not clear, despite me hunting, is can I use (and how) SD to grab metadata for VIDEOS.
>
> In Oz EIT is quite reasonable.
> James
> _______________________________________________
There is currently no process for getting metadata for videos from
Schedules Direct. A quick look at the SD API indicates that in order to
get metadata you need a SD program id, which is a number such as
["EP000000060003"]. These come with your schedule download but I don't
see ho to get them from a program title.
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On 6/4/21 5:16 PM, Yeechang Lee wrote:
> Paul Harrison says:
>> So the question is what improvements would you like to see in MythTV
>> in the future that would persuade you to continue to use it? Would
>> you like to see better support for YouTube for example or a better
>> video media library.
> I find that I use YouTube 95% of the time on my Shield. The SmartTube Next client often breaks; a better, ad-skipping YouTube client within MythFrontend would be very welcome.

I have been using FreeTube [https://freetubeapp.io/] of late. It's open
source, too, so I suppose it might just be possible to integrate it with
Myth.

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On Mon, Jun 07, 2021 at 09:53:44AM -0400, Dan Wilga wrote:
> On 6/4/21 5:16 PM, Yeechang Lee wrote:
> > Paul Harrison says:
> > > So the question is what improvements would you like to see in MythTV
> > > in the future that would persuade you to continue to use it? Would
> > > you like to see better support for YouTube for example or a better
> > > video media library.
> > I find that I use YouTube 95% of the time on my Shield. The SmartTube Next client often breaks; a better, ad-skipping YouTube client within MythFrontend would be very welcome.
>
> I have been using FreeTube [https://freetubeapp.io/] of late. It's open
> source, too, so I suppose it might just be possible to integrate it with
> Myth.

Youtube does allow a channel to be viewed as an RSS feed. I give that url
to gpodder to periodically pull down new shows on about a dozen channels (and
some shows from other feeds), then I have a hacked together shell script to
transfer downloaded videos into MythTV for viewing.

There are occasional hiccups when youtube changes something and it takes a
while for gpodder to catch up, but generally this has been humming along for
a few years. The script is a severe hack, pulling data from gpodder's sqlite
and pushing data into MythTV's database, but it gets the job done.

marcus hall
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On Mon, Jun 7, 2021 at 1:29 PM Peter Bennett <pb.mythtv@gmail.com> wrote:

> There is currently no process for getting metadata for videos from
> Schedules Direct. A quick look at the SD API indicates that in order to
> get metadata you need a SD program id, which is a number such as
> ["EP000000060003"]. These come with your schedule download but I don't
> see ho to get them from a program title.

As I recall, Gracenote (the upstream for Schedules
Direct) does offer a separately licensed API to do
content discovery based on various search criteria,
and, not surprisingly, there are other companies
offering equivalent capabilities.

Presumably there is a business opportunity there
for someone if they believe enough people would be
willing to pay for good metadata lookup capabilities.
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On 04/06/2021 14:47, Jeff wrote:
>> So the question is what improvements would you like to see in MythTV in
>
> My main criticism is that the frontend no longer plays HD content
> fluidly on my RaspberryPi 3, and so I now use a Kodi frontend with the
> MythTV backend. If the frontend played HD content better, then I would
> ditch Kodi again.

I'd like to second Jeff's point about HD content on a Raspberry Pi 3.

Chris

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On Fri, Jun 04, 2021 at 02:17:48PM +0100, Paul Harrison wrote:
>
> So the question is what improvements would you like to see in MythTV in the
> future that would persuade you to continue to use it? Would you like to see
> better support for YouTube for example or a better video media library.
> Better music player? Support for IPTV services? What plugins do you use? 
> What plugins would you like to see? Are you happy with the user interface or
> would you like to see a more modern one?

I have been using MythTV since 2006 and mostly used it to record
DVB-T/T2 but

I have been using MythTV since 2006 and mostly used to record
from DVB-T/T2. Sees more and more need to integrate with
streaming services where you need to be able to log in.

With each upgrade, I have always felt some concern that my
working system would stop working. And often I have had to
scan channels and reconfigure channel lists.

I would like to see MythTV as the hub of a system, partly with
a focus on being able to more easily integrate different sources
for streaming services (free/paid), and partly with a focus on
being able to more easily integrate into any frontend.

Having to do the configuration in the same interface as the
MythTV itself, I have always felt like a limitation and would
have preferred it to be done in a standard desktop interface.

With that said, I'm still very grateful for all the work that
goes into MythTV.

Best regards,
Peter Carlsson
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John Pilkington wrote:

> On 04/06/2021 20:39, Per Jessen wrote:
>> Also, the ability to specify the language of the audio stream(s) when
>> recording would be nice - I get lots of recordings in languages I
>> don't understand.
>
> Playback in Mythfrontend has the NEXTAUDIO key, by default + , which
> ought to step through the available options. For DVB-T/T2 in the UK I
> think that usually gives an
> audio-description-for-the-visually-handicapped track, but you will
> probably have others.

Yes, that works very well, but it would be nice to say "record this
title, but only if it has sound in one of (lang1,lang2)" - popular
series are often broadcast in many countries, and often in local
language only. Back when "The Big Bang Theory" was a big hit, I would
have recordings in four-five different languages :-)

With Swiss telly alone it can be an issue too, but it is easy to tidy
up.


--
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http://www.dns24.ch/ - your free DNS host, made in Switzerland.

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On 08/06/2021 09:55, Per Jessen wrote:
> John Pilkington wrote:
>
>> On 04/06/2021 20:39, Per Jessen wrote:
>>> Also, the ability to specify the language of the audio stream(s) when
>>> recording would be nice - I get lots of recordings in languages I
>>> don't understand.
>>
>> Playback in Mythfrontend has the NEXTAUDIO key, by default + , which
>> ought to step through the available options. For DVB-T/T2 in the UK I
>> think that usually gives an
>> audio-description-for-the-visually-handicapped track, but you will
>> probably have others.
>
> Yes, that works very well, but it would be nice to say "record this
> title, but only if it has sound in one of (lang1,lang2)" - popular
> series are often broadcast in many countries, and often in local
> language only. Back when "The Big Bang Theory" was a big hit, I would
> have recordings in four-five different languages :-)
>
> With Swiss telly alone it can be an issue too, but it is easy to tidy
> up.
>
>

I would be suprised if there was sufficient meta data available for the
scheduler to be able to make this decision.

With digital tv these days, they typically broadcast multiple languages
in different streams at the same time, so a single recording would have
all the broadcast languages in it


Regards
Stuart

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Mike Perkins wrote:

> On 04/06/2021 21:54, John Pilkington wrote:
>> On 04/06/2021 20:39, Per Jessen wrote:
>>>
>>> Also, the ability to specify the language of the audio stream(s)
>>> when recording would be nice - I get lots of recordings in languages
>>> I don't understand.
>>
>> Playback in Mythfrontend has the NEXTAUDIO key, by default + , which
>> ought to step through the available options.  For DVB-T/T2 in the UK
>> I think that usually gives an
>> audio-description-for-the-visually-handicapped track, but you will
>> probably have others.
>>
> Perhaps there should be a way to specify the desired language in setup
> or the recording rule? Use that if it exists and if not, a suitable
> default?

Yes, that was my thinking - optionally have a set of default languages,
as well as be able to specify per recording.



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On 08/06/2021 10:00, Stuart Auchterlonie wrote:
> On 08/06/2021 09:55, Per Jessen wrote:
>> John Pilkington wrote:
>>
>>> On 04/06/2021 20:39, Per Jessen wrote:
>>>> Also, the ability to specify the language of the audio stream(s) when
>>>> recording would be nice - I get lots of recordings in languages I
>>>> don't understand.
>>>
>>> Playback in Mythfrontend has the NEXTAUDIO key, by default + , which
>>> ought to step through the available options.  For DVB-T/T2 in the UK I
>>> think that usually gives an
>>> audio-description-for-the-visually-handicapped track, but you will
>>> probably have others.
>>
>> Yes, that works very well, but it would be nice to say "record this
>> title, but only if it has sound in one of (lang1,lang2)"  - popular
>> series are often broadcast in many countries, and often in local
>> language only.  Back when "The Big Bang Theory" was a big hit, I would
>> have recordings in four-five different languages :-)
>>
>> With Swiss telly alone it can be an issue too, but it is easy to tidy
>> up.
>>
>>
>
> I would be suprised if there was sufficient meta data available for the
> scheduler to be able to make this decision.
>
> With digital tv these days, they typically broadcast multiple languages
> in different streams at the same time, so a single recording would have
> all the broadcast languages in it
>
>
> Regards
> Stuart
>

It might be possible to start a recording, check the available streams,
and abort on a language-set mismatch.

I just had a BBC FOUR recording that started at 18:58 and now plays fine
in master, but the stream analysis in my cutting script saw 0 video
streams and aborted. It worked after dropping the first 45 MB of the
file. Needs a probe offset...

John P
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Stuart Auchterlonie wrote:

> On 08/06/2021 09:55, Per Jessen wrote:
>> John Pilkington wrote:
>>
>>> On 04/06/2021 20:39, Per Jessen wrote:
>>>> Also, the ability to specify the language of the audio stream(s)
>>>> when recording would be nice - I get lots of recordings in
>>>> languages I don't understand.
>>>
>>> Playback in Mythfrontend has the NEXTAUDIO key, by default + , which
>>> ought to step through the available options. For DVB-T/T2 in the UK
>>> I think that usually gives an
>>> audio-description-for-the-visually-handicapped track, but you will
>>> probably have others.
>>
>> Yes, that works very well, but it would be nice to say "record this
>> title, but only if it has sound in one of (lang1,lang2)" - popular
>> series are often broadcast in many countries, and often in local
>> language only. Back when "The Big Bang Theory" was a big hit, I
>> would have recordings in four-five different languages :-)
>>
>> With Swiss telly alone it can be an issue too, but it is easy to tidy
>> up.
>>
>
> I would be suprised if there was sufficient meta data available for
> the scheduler to be able to make this decision.
>
> With digital tv these days, they typically broadcast multiple
> languages in different streams at the same time, so a single recording
> would have all the broadcast languages in it

It depends on the licensing I believe. We certainly frequently see
something with an original English language sound track, but only
broadcast with the dubbed version in French or German, for instance.



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On 08/06/2021 10:57, John Pilkington wrote:
> On 08/06/2021 10:00, Stuart Auchterlonie wrote:
>> On 08/06/2021 09:55, Per Jessen wrote:
>>> John Pilkington wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 04/06/2021 20:39, Per Jessen wrote:
>>>>> Also, the ability to specify the language of the audio stream(s) when
>>>>> recording would be nice - I get lots of recordings in languages I
>>>>> don't understand.
>>>>
>>>> Playback in Mythfrontend has the NEXTAUDIO key, by default + , which
>>>> ought to step through the available options.  For DVB-T/T2 in the UK I
>>>> think that usually gives an
>>>> audio-description-for-the-visually-handicapped track, but you will
>>>> probably have others.
>>>
>>> Yes, that works very well, but it would be nice to say "record this
>>> title, but only if it has sound in one of (lang1,lang2)"  - popular
>>> series are often broadcast in many countries, and often in local
>>> language only.  Back when "The Big Bang Theory" was a big hit, I would
>>> have recordings in four-five different languages :-)
>>>
>>> With Swiss telly alone it can be an issue too, but it is easy to tidy
>>> up.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I would be suprised if there was sufficient meta data available for the
>> scheduler to be able to make this decision.
>>
>> With digital tv these days, they typically broadcast multiple languages
>> in different streams at the same time, so a single recording would have
>> all the broadcast languages in it
>>
>>
>> Regards
>> Stuart
>>
>
> It might be possible to start a recording, check the available streams, and abort on a language-set
> mismatch.
>
> I just had a BBC FOUR recording that started at 18:58 and now plays fine in master, but the stream
> analysis in my cutting script saw 0 video streams and aborted.  It worked after dropping the first
> 45 MB of the file.  Needs a probe offset...
>
The problem with starting any digital recording comes with two problems: pre-roll and adverts.

Pre-roll is almost guaranteed to pick up the previous program which may have different language
selections[1]. OK, you can use an offset to start the check but how accurate is your clock against
that of the broadcaster? Some are known to start programs early, others late.

Adverts and/or trailers could also have different selections and, especially adverts, can occur
randomly throughout the program. How can the software tell which is which?

[1] Unless it is a part-time channel like BBC4 in which case you could get absolutely nothing!

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On 6/8/21 5:57 AM, John Pilkington wrote:
> It might be possible to start a recording, check the available
> streams, and abort on a language-set mismatch.
>
> I just had a BBC FOUR recording that started at 18:58 and now plays
> fine in master, but the stream analysis in my cutting script saw 0
> video streams and aborted.  It worked after dropping the first 45 MB
> of the file.  Needs a probe offset...
>
> John P

I don't know how things are in Europe, but in the USA the language for
an audio track is normally garbage. They typically have two audio
tracks, one labeled English and one labeled Spanish. The Spanish track
has a low-quality copy of the English track, a descriptive audio track,
or nothing. I have never found a case where it contains Spanish audio.

Peter

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Peter Bennett wrote:

>
> On 6/8/21 5:57 AM, John Pilkington wrote:
>> It might be possible to start a recording, check the available
>> streams, and abort on a language-set mismatch.
>>
>> I just had a BBC FOUR recording that started at 18:58 and now plays
>> fine in master, but the stream analysis in my cutting script saw 0
>> video streams and aborted.  It worked after dropping the first 45 MB
>> of the file.  Needs a probe offset...
>>
>> John P
>
> I don't know how things are in Europe, but in the USA the language for
> an audio track is normally garbage. They typically have two audio
> tracks, one labeled English and one labeled Spanish. The Spanish track
> has a low-quality copy of the English track, a descriptive audio
> track, or nothing. I have never found a case where it contains Spanish
> audio.

Dual-language programming is perfectly common, often also with a third
track of descriptive audio. Sometimes different quality of audio too -
stereo, surround etc. For dubbed material, whether you get the
original sound is a matter of licensing.

With the immensely popular "The Big Bang Theory", the problem was
particularly visible. It was broadcast concurrently in several
countries - one recording rule would lead to maybe five-six recordings.
E.g. in German, French, Italian, Polish, Russian, Turkish, I think I
had even Arabic. Oh, and English :-)



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Chris Dennis via mythtv-users wrote:

> On 04/06/2021 14:47, Jeff wrote:
>>> So the question is what improvements would you like to see in MythTV
>>> in
>>
>> My main criticism is that the frontend no longer plays HD content
>> fluidly on my RaspberryPi 3, and so I now use a Kodi frontend with
>> the MythTV backend. If the frontend played HD content better, then I
>> would ditch Kodi again.
>
> I'd like to second Jeff's point about HD content on a Raspberry Pi 3.

I have also tried HD content on a Raspberry Pi 3, but had to switch back
to my old Zotac box.


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Hoi Per,

Tuesday, June 8, 2021, 6:28:14 PM, you wrote:

> Peter Bennett wrote:

>>
>> On 6/8/21 5:57 AM, John Pilkington wrote:
>>> It might be possible to start a recording, check the available
>>> streams, and abort on a language-set mismatch.
>>>
>>> I just had a BBC FOUR recording that started at 18:58 and now plays
>>> fine in master, but the stream analysis in my cutting script saw 0
>>> video streams and aborted.  It worked after dropping the first 45 MB
>>> of the file.  Needs a probe offset...
>>>
>>> John P
>>
>> I don't know how things are in Europe, but in the USA the language for
>> an audio track is normally garbage. They typically have two audio
>> tracks, one labeled English and one labeled Spanish. The Spanish track
>> has a low-quality copy of the English track, a descriptive audio
>> track, or nothing. I have never found a case where it contains Spanish
>> audio.

> Dual-language programming is perfectly common, often also with a third
> track of descriptive audio. Sometimes different quality of audio too -
> stereo, surround etc. For dubbed material, whether you get the
> original sound is a matter of licensing.

> With the immensely popular "The Big Bang Theory", the problem was
> particularly visible. It was broadcast concurrently in several
> countries - one recording rule would lead to maybe five-six recordings.
> E.g. in German, French, Italian, Polish, Russian, Turkish, I think I
> had even Arabic. Oh, and English :-)


But the language is mainly dependant on the channel. More relevant is
whether it is in the original language with maybe subtitles or whether
it is dubbed in the channel language. Isn't it so that in Switzerland
there are separate channels for the different languages? There are in
Belgium. If I here in the Netherlands record a German, British, French
or whatever channel, I know the language of that country and most
other countries do dub the broadcasts in their own language. We are
one of the few that use subtitling (except for children shows). The
channels with for me unacceptable languages I have mostly excluded
from my channel list.

So could the channel characteristics be extended with the channel
language? And maybe with their preferred choice for dubbing or
subtitling? That way, if you include acceptable languages in the
query ... ?


Tot mails,
Hika mailto:hikavdh@gmail.com

"Zonder hoop kun je niet leven
Zonder leven is er geen hoop
Het eeuwige dilemma
Zeker als je hoop moet vernietigen om te kunnen overleven!"

De lerende Mens

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On Tue, Jun 8, 2021 at 5:40 PM Per Jessen <per@computer.org> wrote:
>
> Chris Dennis via mythtv-users wrote:
>
> > On 04/06/2021 14:47, Jeff wrote:
> >>> So the question is what improvements would you like to see in MythTV
> >>> in
> >>
> >> My main criticism is that the frontend no longer plays HD content
> >> fluidly on my RaspberryPi 3, and so I now use a Kodi frontend with
> >> the MythTV backend. If the frontend played HD content better, then I
> >> would ditch Kodi again.
> >
> > I'd like to second Jeff's point about HD content on a Raspberry Pi 3.
>
> I have also tried HD content on a Raspberry Pi 3, but had to switch back
> to my old Zotac box.

Mark Kendall made some substantial changes
in the various video processing codes (available
in the development branch) that improved some
rendering cases for at least some Pi's. You may
wish to try that version to see if your issues are
addressed.
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Hika van den Hoven wrote:

> Hoi Per,
>
> Tuesday, June 8, 2021, 6:28:14 PM, you wrote:
>
>> Dual-language programming is perfectly common, often also with a
>> third track of descriptive audio. Sometimes different quality of
>> audio too - stereo, surround etc. For dubbed material, whether you
>> get the original sound is a matter of licensing.
>
>> With the immensely popular "The Big Bang Theory", the problem was
>> particularly visible. It was broadcast concurrently in several
>> countries - one recording rule would lead to maybe five-six
>> recordings. E.g. in German, French, Italian, Polish, Russian,
>> Turkish, I think I had even Arabic. Oh, and English :-)
>
>
> But the language is mainly dependant on the channel. More relevant is
> whether it is in the original language with maybe subtitles or whether
> it is dubbed in the channel language.

Usually when there is audio in more than one language, it will be the
original, plus one dubbed language.

> Isn't it so that in Switzerland there are separate channels for the
> different languages?

Yes primarily, but not exclusively.

> There are in Belgium. If I here in the Netherlands record a German,
> British, French or whatever channel, I know the language of that
> country and most other countries do dub the broadcasts in their own
> language. We are one of the few that use subtitling (except for
> children shows). The channels with for me unacceptable languages I
> have mostly excluded from my channel list.

If there was an easy option to say "record this, but only on these
channels from my list(s)", that would help quite a bit, yes.

> So could the channel characteristics be extended with the channel
> language? And maybe with their preferred choice for dubbing or
> subtitling? That way, if you include acceptable languages in the
> query ... ?

I can't quite figure out if that would work. At some point, BBC4 liked
to broadcast Scandinavian titles with the original sound track and
subtitles.

If I had a rule: record "Wallander", any channel, but only in
Swedish - with your scheme, would I get a recording from BBC4 ?


Groetjes,
Per


--
Per Jessen, Zürich (24.5°C)


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On 08/06/2021 20:18, Gary Buhrmaster wrote:
> Mark Kendall made some substantial changes
> in the various video processing codes (available
> in the development branch) that improved some
> rendering cases for at least some Pi's. You may
> wish to try that version to see if your issues are
> addressed.

I'd love to give the changes a try. Is there a .deb I can install?

Thanks and regards

Jeff

FWIW, I've been a Myth user for many years - my current system for over 12 years, but I know I was playing with it before then but did a fresh install without keeping the old database.
At Christmas, one of our daughters bought SWMBO a Firestick (prompting a quick reconfig of the network to keep it isolated). So now we do watch a certain amount of streamed stuff.


Peter Carlsson <peter.jm.carlsson@gmail.com> wrote:

> I would like to see MythTV as the hub of a system, partly with
> a focus on being able to more easily integrate different sources
> for streaming services (free/paid), and partly with a focus on
> being able to more easily integrate into any frontend.

The problem there is that all the streaming services want that not to happen. it's not a case of them being ambivalent, or not wanting to co-operate - they actively want it not to happen.
This is partly from a security PoV - they want to control the playback platform and thus enforce restrictions. And it's partly to do with enforcing the branding. But it's also do do with "being the dominant player" and making it as hard as possible for new entrants. If you have a "universal hub" then it's easy for new entrants to get added, and if it's clever enough, just appear as "more available stuff".
So I can't see an open system like Myth ever getting to the state where it's your central hub for all services - and there's the risk that if it tries, one of more of the streaming providers will sue the s**t out of the project. Heck, even discussing how to watch the content from a streaming service (even with a valid subscription) can get the project shut down with DMCA abuse - and that's why discussion of topics like the use of CA cards (even where completely legal) is not allowed.

Simon

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On Fri, Jun 4, 2021 at 6:26 AM Paul Harrison <mythtv@mythqml.net> wrote:

> We can see from the number of Scheduled Direct users and the Smolt data
> that MythTV is losing users at an ever increasing rate. We think one
> reason for this is it's getting harder and harder to record stuff
> because more services are becoming encrypted requiring proprietary boxes
> to view and record content and some services are moving to an on-demand
> type of service that are hard or impossible to record.
>
>
> So the question is what improvements would you like to see in MythTV in
> the future that would persuade you to continue to use it? Would you like
> to see better support for YouTube for example or a better video media
> library. Better music player? Support for IPTV services? What plugins do
> you use? What plugins would you like to see? Are you happy with the
> user interface or would you like to see a more modern one?
>
>
> Give us your thoughts on what direction you would like to see MythTV
> take now it's original purpose is slowing being killed of.
>
>
> Paul H.
>
> _______________________________________________
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> MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org
>

I been using MythTV since 2005. I stopped using Mythfrontend about 10
years ago in favor of Kodi with the MythTV plugin to view recordings. Here
are my suggestion on areas to concentrate work on:
- Focus on the core backend recording, xmltv configuration, and commercial
skip logic.
- Abandon work on Mythfrontend and instead enhance features of plugins to
Kodi/Plex/Emby/others.
- Update MythWeb for recording scheduling/management.

Am Fr, Jun 04, 2021 at 14:17:48 +0100 schrieb Paul Harrison:
>Give us your thoughts on what direction you would like to see MythTV
>take now it's original purpose is slowing being killed of.

First thank you all for the great work you’ve done over the years.

I’m a German mythtv user for 13 years (first analogue cable, now
DVB-S/C).
The backend is running on my main pc (acting as server), the frontend is
running on my notebook.

Reading the other comments in this thread I’m not a big mythtv user. I’m
not using it for images, music or DVD/BD, mythtv is only for TV (only
recorded events for skipping commercials, not life TV).
And I seldom record other things than shows (like Bares für Rares) or
sports (Snooker).

For movies I prefer the original audio with subtitles which isn’t
available in German TV. So I bought DVD/BD and played them with hardware
players using a beamer.

But now I’m using mostly streaming services (web browser) instead of
buying DVD/BD. I’m doubting that I could use the GUI of the streaming
services better within the frontend.


I can’t say that the backend is working without problems. I’m using
EPG/EIT provided by DVB-S/C, and there always seem to be slight changes.

With power rules this normally means that a deactivated recording is
suddenly active again. This is no problem, I can delete the recording.

For one-time recordings without power rules this can mean that I won’t
get a recording at all. Mythtv is then telling me that the selected show
is no longer available, but of course it is still there, and if you’re
fast enough, you can program a new recording.


It would be nice if you could tell the backend to shorten the time for
overlapping recordings.
Example: Snooker is like tennis a game which doesn’t end after a fixed
time. So my power rule is adding four hours after the official end time.

If we have the following schedule:
09:00 - 12:00: First match (the recording is running until 16:00)
14:00 - 16:00: Second match
then we have two recordings on the same channel for two hours.


So while mythtv is a nice thing it isn’t something really critical for
me. If you decide to drop the frontend, I would quite probably drop the
backend as well.
If you can enhance the frontend that it would work really well with all
the possible streaming services, I would certainly try it.

Many greetings,

Stephan

--
| If your life was a horse, you'd have to shoot it. |
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On Thu, 10 Jun 2021 10:04:40 +0200, you wrote:

>Am Fr, Jun 04, 2021 at 14:17:48 +0100 schrieb Paul Harrison:
>>Give us your thoughts on what direction you would like to see MythTV
>>take now it's original purpose is slowing being killed of.
>
>First thank you all for the great work you?ve done over the years.
>
>I?m a German mythtv user for 13 years (first analogue cable, now
>DVB-S/C).
>The backend is running on my main pc (acting as server), the frontend is
>running on my notebook.
>
>Reading the other comments in this thread I?m not a big mythtv user. I?m
>not using it for images, music or DVD/BD, mythtv is only for TV (only
>recorded events for skipping commercials, not life TV).
>And I seldom record other things than shows (like Bares f?r Rares) or
>sports (Snooker).
>
>For movies I prefer the original audio with subtitles which isn?t
>available in German TV. So I bought DVD/BD and played them with hardware
>players using a beamer.
>
>But now I?m using mostly streaming services (web browser) instead of
>buying DVD/BD. I?m doubting that I could use the GUI of the streaming
>services better within the frontend.
>
>
>I can?t say that the backend is working without problems. I?m using
>EPG/EIT provided by DVB-S/C, and there always seem to be slight changes.
>
>With power rules this normally means that a deactivated recording is
>suddenly active again. This is no problem, I can delete the recording.
>
>For one-time recordings without power rules this can mean that I won?t
>get a recording at all. Mythtv is then telling me that the selected show
>is no longer available, but of course it is still there, and if you?re
>fast enough, you can program a new recording.

I think the Record Once ("Record this showing") rules only allow for a
time movement of up to 5 minutes. It seems you often get larger
changes than that, so you would be better off telling MythTV to
"Record one showing (this episode)", so it will record the episode no
matter what time it is broadcast at.

>It would be nice if you could tell the backend to shorten the time for
>overlapping recordings.
>Example: Snooker is like tennis a game which doesn?t end after a fixed
>time. So my power rule is adding four hours after the official end time.

You can manually add a override rule for a specific instance of a
recording which sets the post roll to a different amount from the rule
that created the recording.

Manage Recordings > Upcoming Recordings > select the recording > Enter
> Add override rule > Schedule Options > End recording x minutes late

Change the x minutes late value to what you want and save the override
rule. You can also do this from the Guide.

This can also be done while the recording is in progress:

Manage Recordings > Upcoming Recordings > select the recording > Enter
> Modify recording options > Schedule Options > End recording x
minutes late

It is also possible to manually stop a recording, if you happen to be
on the MythTV box and notice that it is going on recording
unnecessarily:

Manage Recordings > Upcoming Recordings > select the recording > Enter
> Stop this recording

>If we have the following schedule:
>09:00 - 12:00: First match (the recording is running until 16:00)
>14:00 - 16:00: Second match
>then we have two recordings on the same channel for two hours.
>
>
>So while mythtv is a nice thing it isn?t something really critical for
>me. If you decide to drop the frontend, I would quite probably drop the
>backend as well.
>If you can enhance the frontend that it would work really well with all
>the possible streaming services, I would certainly try it.
>
>Many greetings,
>
> Stephan
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On 06/06/2021 00:00, rkulagow@gmail.com wrote:
> [I work for Schedules Direct]
>
>>> Metadata is dreadful in Oz (WA), it has all been bastardised and 1/2 of it chopped off
>>> Mythtv for us still does what it has always done and does it well.
>> My bitch about metadata may be related. I too am in WA. Who is screwing up the data? Methought the meta data was global, but I’m certainly struggling
> Schedules Direct has data for Australia, and personally I think our metadata is pretty good.
I didn't mean SD! OTA is appaling...

I used to be with SD when living in the UK, but Oz did not exist, I
still can't see it as an option when I look at
https://www.schedulesdirect.org/regions

--
'ooroo

Stinga...(:)-)
---------------------------------------------------
Email: stinga+mythtv@wolf-rock.com o
You need only two tools. o /////
A hammer and duct tape. If it /@ `\ /) ~
doesn't move and it should use > (O) X< ~ Fish!!
the hammer. If it moves and `\___/' \) ~
shouldn't, use the tape. \\\
---------------------------------------------------

>
> I'd like to see casting support come back, Airplay was great when it
> worked, and Chromecast would be awesome too.
>

Cheers,

Anthony

Am Do, Jun 10, 2021 at 21:31:43 +1200 schrieb Stephen Worthington:
>I think the Record Once ("Record this showing") rules only allow for a
>time movement of up to 5 minutes. It seems you often get larger
>changes than that, so you would be better off telling MythTV to
>"Record one showing (this episode)", so it will record the episode no
>matter what time it is broadcast at.

Thanks, I will try it the next time.

>You can manually add a override rule for a specific instance of a
>recording which sets the post roll to a different amount from the rule
>that created the recording.

Yes, I know I can change it later again or stop the recording, but as far
as I know you need the frontend for this. Mythweb can’t do it.

So I think it would be much better to have a global option for this
feature. I would consider it a waste of disk space.

Shade and sweet water!

Stephan

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On 6/4/2021 8:17 AM, Paul Harrison wrote:
> We can see from the number of Scheduled Direct users and the Smolt
> data that MythTV is losing users at an ever increasing rate.  We think
> one reason for this is it's getting harder and harder to record stuff
> because more services are becoming encrypted requiring proprietary
> boxes to view and record content and some services are moving to an
> on-demand type of service that are hard or impossible to record.
>
>
> So the question is what improvements would you like to see in MythTV
> in the future that would persuade you to continue to use it? Would you
> like to see better support for YouTube for example or a better video
> media library. Better music player? Support for IPTV services? What
> plugins do you use?  What plugins would you like to see? Are you happy
> with the user interface or would you like to see a more modern one?
>
>
> Give us your thoughts on what direction you would like to see MythTV
> take now it's original purpose is slowing being killed of.
>
>
> Paul H.

I used MythTV for a good many years but I haven't been using it for a
little over a year.  That wasn't really my choice -- my house was
burglarized and they stole my MythServer with multiple terabytes of
recordings, as well as some other computers.  Not long after, I hurt my
back, wound up in a wheelchair and was forced to move into assisted
living.  I get free cable here but it's all encrypted.

Since I don't even have the ability to use a cable company DVR, I have
switched to YouTube TV with unlimited DVR.  I have combined that with a
Roku TV (the thieves took my TV as well) and now I stream everything.

But, I miss my MythTV.

Frankly, I still think that MythTV could have a future in its original
purpose. I still know a number of people who get their TV over-the-air
who would love a DVR setup but when I talk to them about MythTV, the
complexity is a non-starter.  They want a box they could plug in.  And
while they all use computers and could probably be convinced to dedicate
a computer as their box, they still aren't looking for a hobby -- they
are looking for a commodity -- and MythTV is still in the hobby stage.

When I had my setup, I was constantly tinkering with it.  how do I fix
network overrun errors?  how do I fix disk overrun errors? My custom
rule isn't working quite right, i've got to tweak the SQL.  I upgraded
my version of LInux and now things have stopped working and I need to
spend the next three days without TV while I spend hours on the Internet
trying to figure out how to fix it.  I want to hook up a cable box, how
do I control it?  While I realize that my situation was different from
someone looking for a plug-in box because I loved the flexibility and I
wanted everything to be exactly how I wanted it, so I modified and
tweaked and added custom scripts and such.  I also had multiple tuners,
was frequently recording four and five shows at a time with multiple
hard drives, two backends, etc.  Most commodity-seeking users aren't
going to do any of that, but the fact is, for the uninitiated, MythTV is
still a daunting proposition and now that MythBuntu is gone, getting
started has become even harder.  If you'd like to attract new users you
need to find ways of making it easier to setup, modify, and maintain
with a minimum of Linux knowledge (because most commodity users will
have zero Linux knowledge).  Heck, even if I got out of assisted living
and could go back to owning my own place with my own antennas, etc., I'd
be reluctant to go through all the trouble of trying to set up another
MythTV installation, and like I said, I really miss it.

Then, of course, there is the question of what ATSC 3.0 is going to do
to MythTV.

While things like MythMusic were a nice idea, there are many other
services which handle such things better and I don't know if there's
much point spending time there.  MythWeb is a great thing and I can see
reason to build on it.

The developers have done something wonderful in creating and building
upon MythTV.  But like most freeware projects, they created the things
which they wanted to create and spent less time on what others might
want.  In particular, they have never targeted a commodity user and felt
it was fine for users to have to know Linux commands and file systems,
etc.  If they want to attract only hobbyists, that's fine, but I think,
rather than let MythTV die, perhaps they should spend time trying to
attract a new audience.

-- Les N.

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Am Freitag, 4. Juni 2021, 15:17:48 CEST schrieb Paul Harrison:

> Give us your thoughts on what direction you would like to see MythTV
> take now it's original purpose is slowing being killed of.

With a bit delay I remembered a little problem. I have one BE with 3 FEs. When
rescanning for new additions I have to exit and reenter the video library to
get the new episodes on the other FEs. Would be nice if there would be a
signal or marker for updated collection to let the other ones updated their
cache.

--
MfG usw.

Werner Mahr


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> On 15 Jul 2021, at 6:59 pm, Werner Mahr <werner@vollstreckernet.de> wrote:
>
> Am Freitag, 4. Juni 2021, 15:17:48 CEST schrieb Paul Harrison:
>
>> Give us your thoughts on what direction you would like to see MythTV
>> take now it's original purpose is slowing being killed of.
>
> With a bit delay I remembered a little problem. I have one BE with 3 FEs. When
> rescanning for new additions I have to exit and reenter the video library to
> get the new episodes on the other FEs. Would be nice if there would be a
> signal or marker for updated collection to let the other ones updated their
> cache.

Werner would you use more words please :-)
If I scan in Videos all backends see the addition. Because of fumbles in the mac frontend which I mostly use it does not retrive metadata. My normal use is to scan and retrieve on a linux frontend and the macs just inherit the entries.
There was an ongoing issue with metadata. I compile my own be/fe a recent gil pull and all works.
It is easy to build from src, harder to package so I build on each frontend. (rather than package debs and rpm)
James

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Am Donnerstag, 15. Juli 2021, 13:31:15 CEST schrieb James:
> > On 15 Jul 2021, at 6:59 pm, Werner Mahr <werner@vollstreckernet.de> wrote:
> >
> > Am Freitag, 4. Juni 2021, 15:17:48 CEST schrieb Paul Harrison:
> >> Give us your thoughts on what direction you would like to see MythTV
> >> take now it's original purpose is slowing being killed of.
> >
> > With a bit delay I remembered a little problem. I have one BE with 3 FEs.
> > When rescanning for new additions I have to exit and reenter the video
> > library to get the new episodes on the other FEs. Would be nice if there
> > would be a signal or marker for updated collection to let the other ones
> > updated their cache.
>
> Werner would you use more words please :-)
> If I scan in Videos all backends see the addition.

Sure, but the frontend that are already running don't. I just turn off the
Screen and the frontend just stays at the last watched episode until I
continue. And without exiting the videolibrary, this frontend doesn't notice
any changes. Same apllies to watched-state which isn't a problem for me, as I
use different rooms for different series (vintage cartoons while ironing and
recent series in the living room).

I mostly scan for changes in my office, as it's easier to fix wrong metadata and
images with keyboard and mouse, but the frontend in the livingroom just
doesn't notice this.

--
MfG usw.

Werner Mahr


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> On 15 Jul 2021, at 8:46 pm, Werner Mahr <werner@vollstreckernet.de> wrote:
>
> Am Donnerstag, 15. Juli 2021, 13:31:15 CEST schrieb James:
>>> On 15 Jul 2021, at 6:59 pm, Werner Mahr <werner@vollstreckernet.de> wrote:
>>>
>>> Am Freitag, 4. Juni 2021, 15:17:48 CEST schrieb Paul Harrison:
>>>> Give us your thoughts on what direction you would like to see MythTV
>>>> take now it's original purpose is slowing being killed of.
>>>
>>> With a bit delay I remembered a little problem. I have one BE with 3 FEs.
>>> When rescanning for new additions I have to exit and reenter the video
>>> library to get the new episodes on the other FEs. Would be nice if there
>>> would be a signal or marker for updated collection to let the other ones
>>> updated their cache.
>>
>> Werner would you use more words please :-)
>> If I scan in Videos all backends see the addition.
>
> Sure, but the frontend that are already running don't. I just turn off the
> Screen and the frontend just stays at the last watched episode until I
> continue. And without exiting the videolibrary, this frontend doesn't notice
> any changes. Same apllies to watched-state which isn't a problem for me, as I
> use different rooms for different series (vintage cartoons while ironing and
> recent series in the living room).
>
> I mostly scan for changes in my office, as it's easier to fix wrong metadata and
> images with keyboard and mouse, but the frontend in the livingroom just
> doesn't notice this.

Werner
I alway <esc> to top level before leaving a frontend.
If I am in the library it does not dynamically update.
James

Am Donnerstag, 15. Juli 2021, 15:13:50 CEST schrieb James:

> Werner
> I alway <esc> to top level before leaving a frontend.

Jep, me not.

> If I am in the library it does not dynamically update.

Exactly this is what annoys me. I don't know if it's possible to send a signal
to the frontend without further interaction from this side, but maybe a field
in the db with the timestamp from the last update would be nice. So the
frontend could periodically (10 or 15 minutes) do quick check if the cache is
still uptodate.

Given, this no showstopper but would be a nice addition.

--
MfG usw.

Werner Mahr


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