Mailing List Archive

On 04/13/2021 09:48 AM, Barry Martin wrote:
>
>
> Hi Folks!
>
>
> The schedule for a new OTA station locally (U.S.) is only displaying a
> schedule of about a day?s worth. Robert at SchedulesDirect verified
> they are putting out the full thirteen days. It would therefore appear
> I have the EIT option turned on but AFAIK I do not: tuner is the
> Hauppauge 1609, all tuners appear. The Backend?s OS is Ubuntu 18.04,
> MythTV is version 30. All the other stations display a full schedule.
>
>
> To check on the ?maybe EIT? I just went to SchedulesDirect to
> temporarily turn off receiving the data for this specific station.
> (I?m thinking EIT isn?t the way data is sneaking in as there is a
> another station at 8.5 for which SchedulesDirect has no information
> yet [in progress] and I?m not getting schedule data [Guide lists the
> station at 8.5 but always ?Unknown? as opposed to 6.6 will display
> about 12 or so hours of listings then ?Unknown?.)
>
>
> I have no idea what log to look at, or where; there are no error
> messages on the ?Listing Status? screen. Looking at ?View Logs? via
> the webpage (192.168.4.3:6544) I see a blank page ? either no logs to
> view or something configured wrong.
>
>
> The only thing I did differently from the other stations was scan on
> the fourth tuner only. (Hauppauge 1609 has four tuners.)
>

You can disable EIT on the video source (which will disable it on all
channels in the video source, regardless of whether they're marked as
enabled), on the channels individually, or on the capture cards. Since
you're using Schedules Direct as the listings provider for this video
source, you should disable it for the entire video source.

Note, too, that your lack of data probably indicates that you have a
problem with the listings configuration associating the channel with the
guide data since EIT will only overwrite or add data--not remove future
data. Therefore, your good Schedules Direct data never makes it in for
that channel. This also means that you could well have EIT enabled on
the other channels on the video source and it may be stomping all over
the good Schedules Direct data. So disabling EIT on the video source
would actually solve this issue as well.

Mike

Mike
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Is it OK to leave EIT data enabled and Schedules Direct? I have both
enabled and haven't had problems. Won't the EIT data just add
to/overwrite the information from Schedules Direct? It seems the EIT
data would be more current.

On 4/13/21 8:23 AM, Michael T. Dean wrote:
> On 04/13/2021 09:48 AM, Barry Martin wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi Folks!
>>
>>
>> The schedule for a new OTA station locally (U.S.) is only displaying
>> a schedule of about a day?s worth. Robert at SchedulesDirect verified
>> they are putting out the full thirteen days. It would therefore
>> appear I have the EIT option turned on but AFAIK I do not: tuner is
>> the Hauppauge 1609, all tuners appear. The Backend?s OS is Ubuntu
>> 18.04, MythTV is version 30. All the other stations display a full
>> schedule.
>>
>>
>> To check on the ?maybe EIT? I just went to SchedulesDirect to
>> temporarily turn off receiving the data for this specific station.
>> (I?m thinking EIT isn?t the way data is sneaking in as there is a
>> another station at 8.5 for which SchedulesDirect has no information
>> yet [in progress] and I?m not getting schedule data [Guide lists the
>> station at 8.5 but always ?Unknown? as opposed to 6.6 will display
>> about 12 or so hours of listings then ?Unknown?.)
>>
>>
>> I have no idea what log to look at, or where; there are no error
>> messages on the ?Listing Status? screen. Looking at ?View Logs? via
>> the webpage (192.168.4.3:6544) I see a blank page ? either no logs to
>> view or something configured wrong.
>>
>>
>> The only thing I did differently from the other stations was scan on
>> the fourth tuner only. (Hauppauge 1609 has four tuners.)
>>
>
> You can disable EIT on the video source (which will disable it on all
> channels in the video source, regardless of whether they're marked as
> enabled), on the channels individually, or on the capture cards.?
> Since you're using Schedules Direct as the listings provider for this
> video source, you should disable it for the entire video source.
>
> Note, too, that your lack of data probably indicates that you have a
> problem with the listings configuration associating the channel with
> the guide data since EIT will only overwrite or add data--not remove
> future data.? Therefore, your good Schedules Direct data never makes
> it in for that channel.? This also means that you could well have EIT
> enabled on the other channels on the video source and it may be
> stomping all over the good Schedules Direct data.? So disabling EIT on
> the video source would actually solve this issue as well.
>
> Mike
>
> Mike
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On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 3:51 PM Scott Simpson <simpson100@gmail.com> wrote:

> Is it OK to leave EIT data enabled and Schedules Direct? I have both
> enabled and haven't had problems. Won't the EIT data just add
> to/overwrite the information from Schedules Direct? It seems the EIT
> data would be more current.

While there are always exceptions, the EIT data is
typically not as complete or extensive as the data
from Schedules Direct, so you may lose details if
you let EIT stomp(*) over the SD data and since
the data may be coming from a different source,
it may not be formatted the same, making the
results perhaps inconsistent from future data
(whether those lose of details or differences
matter to you will, of course, vary),

Note that while one might fantasize EIT data
would be more current, and there are probably
cases where it could be(**), in practice most stations
get the EIT data from another company to feed
to their transmitters (there are a couple (four?)
of companies that take guide data and transform
it to the EIT format(***)), so you are back to the
accuracy of the guide provider (whomever that
is for the company doing the transformation
that the station has contracted with for the data),
and you have the ability to be getting your
Schedules Direct updates a few times a day
as long as you are using the JSON feed, so the
accuracy would be expected to be equivalent.

While the general recommendation is to use
EIT *or* your chosen guide provider (not both),
MythTV gives you the option to do what works
best for your specific use case.




(*) Using the term used in a previous reply.

(**) Stations may pull data from their PSIP
Data Service Provider on various schedules
(once a day, a few times a day, etc.) but those
providers still depend on the underlying guide
data providers updates, which have their own
update schedules.

(***) Unsurprisingly, those companies include
the well known guide providers (they have the
data, and it is just another transform), and
includes the company that SD uses for their
guide data.
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On 13/04/2021 18:17, Gary Buhrmaster wrote:
>
> Note that while one might fantasize EIT data
> would be more current, and there are probably
> cases where it could be(**), in practice most stations
> get the EIT data from another company to feed
> to their transmitters (there are a couple (four?)
> of companies that take guide data and transform
> it to the EIT format(***)), so you are back to the
> accuracy of the guide provider (whomever that
> is for the company doing the transformation
> that the station has contracted with for the data),
> and you have the ability to be getting your
> Schedules Direct updates a few times a day
> as long as you are using the JSON feed, so the
> accuracy would be expected to be equivalent.
>
> (**) Stations may pull data from their PSIP
> Data Service Provider on various schedules
> (once a day, a few times a day, etc.) but those
> providers still depend on the underlying guide
> data providers updates, which have their own
> update schedules.
>
We had a graphic illustration of this last weekend in the UK when the Duke of Edinburgh died.

The traditional terrestrial channels promptly went into headless chicken mode. BBC4 was turned off
completely and BBC1 and BBC2 just showed what was on the BBC News channel, which of course was all
DofE's history, etc. ITV1, Channel 4 and Channel 5 had different programming but they had still
stopped showing the 'normal' schedules.

For various reasons I discovered this mid-afternoon. Since I had five programs set to record that
evening I wanted to see if an update was available and so hand-ran mythfilldatabase. Nope, still the
same. So, the following morning I had to hit 'delete and re-record' on all those recordings, which
would have been wall-to-wall DofE.

I think that this kind of event represents one of the few limitations of mythtv, something dramatic
like a major death (think JFK) or, say, a terrorist event (think 9/11). There's really no way to get
up-to-date schedule information, since even the EIT can get left behind. The best that can be done
is to re-record what was wanted at a later date.

--

Mike Perkins

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On 4/13/21 6:13 PM, Mike Perkins wrote:
> We had a graphic illustration of this last weekend in the UK when the
> Duke of Edinburgh died.
>
> The traditional terrestrial channels promptly went into headless
> chicken mode. BBC4 was turned off completely and BBC1 and BBC2 just
> showed what was on the BBC News channel, which of course was all
> DofE's history, etc. ITV1, Channel 4 and Channel 5 had different
> programming but they had still stopped showing the 'normal' schedules.
>
> For various reasons I discovered this mid-afternoon. Since I had five
> programs set to record that evening I wanted to see if an update was
> available and so hand-ran mythfilldatabase. Nope, still the same. So,
> the following morning I had to hit 'delete and re-record' on all those
> recordings, which would have been wall-to-wall DofE.
>
> I think that this kind of event represents one of the few limitations
> of mythtv, something dramatic like a major death (think JFK) or, say,
> a terrorist event (think 9/11). There's really no way to get
> up-to-date schedule information, since even the EIT can get left
> behind. The best that can be done is to re-record what was wanted at a
> later date.
>

I have found in these situations I quickly delete the recordings and
mark to allow recording again. This works if the networks reschedules
the original recording.  Our problem is a lot of times the local weather
caused the mess up of the schedule so the network didn't change what
they did nationally.

I have found that if a local channel schedules ahead of time to run a
local sports event that is not of national interest that they will move
the network shows to after midnight and the schedule will reflect this
so SD will pick it up.  During this time of year I pad all recordings.

Jim A



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Hi Mike!

> You can disable EIT on the video source (which will disable it on all
> channels in the video source, regardless of whether they're marked as
> enabled), on the channels individually, or on the capture cards.

I don’t think I originally enabled EIT when I configured the Backend a
couple years ago. The only Source/Input listed is “Antenna” and AFAIK
just SchedulesDirect as EIT did not seem worthwhile.



> Note, too, that your lack of data probably indicates that you have a
> problem with the listings configuration associating the channel with the
> guide data since EIT will only overwrite or add data--not remove future
> data. Therefore, your good Schedules Direct data never makes it in for
> that channel. This also means that you could well have EIT enabled on
> the other channels on the video source and it may be stomping all over
> the good Schedules Direct data. So disabling EIT on the video source
> would actually solve this issue as well.


I did some additional checking this morning and there is a gap in the
listings here. Today is Wednesday, April 14^th (may or may not be
significant). Data listings:


Start



Fri



4.9



7:00 p.m.






End



Wed



4.14



7:00 p.m.

Start



Wed



4.21



7:00 p.m.






End



Sun



4.25



7:00 p.m.
















All listings end



Mon



4.26



7:00 p.m.


So for some reason there is a 7 day gap. I also did a spot check and
there are unique programmes in the second part – IOW “part 2” isn’t the
same/a repeat of “part 1”. So doesn’t appear to be EIT data since such a
long term. I also still have the data for 6.6 turned off at
SchedulesDirect temporarily as part of the experiment.


Thanks for trying to help figure this out!

Barry

On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 10:15 PM Mike Perkins
<mikep@randomtraveller.org.uk> wrote:

> I think that this kind of event represents one of the few limitations of mythtv

It is not just MythTV. "Event TV" (which includes
both breaking news and live sports that run
beyond their scheduled times) throws all the
broadcasters off their carefully arranged schedules
which that have been provided to guide providers
and causes problems for all DVRs.

Since it is unlikely we can eliminate sports that
are not time limited (any more than you can
end a meeting on time if your CEO is the one
who just keeps on talking and talking), nor stop
breaking news, one can only mitigate the impact.

One challenge is that the guide data provider
may not get updated schedules quickly
depending on the adjustments taken (and
depending on the breaking news event those
adjustments may involve days worth of
previously scheduled content), and if an
episode is pushed back only a day it may
miss all the propagation to get out to all
customers before it has already been
shown.

And not all guide providers pass along a
(mostly) reliable New-Episode indication to
help determine if a show should be recorded
if one uses that criteria, although I have seen
some guide providers not be entirely reliable
about marking the episode as new when the
original episode is now broadcast at a later
time period (it is unclear where the fault lies).
Fortunately, some do seem to get it right
at least most of the time, and MythTV can
use that hint.

In the end, MythTV gets things right a lot of
the time (better than some commercial
offerings), but it cannot control external
events (if it could do *that* it would make it
the one ultimate solution).
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On Wed, Apr 14, 2021 at 05:56:26PM +0000, Gary Buhrmaster wrote:
> It is not just MythTV. "Event TV" (which includes
> both breaking news and live sports that run
> beyond their scheduled times) throws all the
> broadcasters off their carefully arranged schedules
> which that have been provided to guide providers
> and causes problems for all DVRs.

Givinig credit where credit is due, at least a couple of times this TV
season, CBS and/or Gracenote have done something nice for DVR users.
When there was a national preemption for whatever reason and missed
episodes were broadcast the next week, they used new programids so
they wouldn't be marked as duplicates or previously recorded.

> In the end, MythTV gets things right a lot of
> the time (better than some commercial
> offerings), but it cannot control external
> events (if it could do *that* it would make it
> the one ultimate solution).

If someone is feeling particularly ambitious, they could write a
chyron detector or modify mythcommflag to detect them. When detected,
we could try to take some appropriate action. Of course, we'd need a
way to disable or ignore them when they are supposed to be there like
on some news and sports shows.

David
--
David Engel
david@istwok.net
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Hi Folks!


Just wanted to give closure to the thread I started a while back: had a
problem where the programme guide stopped displaying listings after a
few days for a specific channel (6.6). Couple of suggestions for that
particular channel configured for EIT (the option isn’t configured at
all). I had done some checking later and found the schedule postings
restarted a week later; I forget the exact dates but 6.6’s guide said
‘Unknown’ from (say) Tuesday the 20^th starting at 7:00 p.m. and
restarted Wednesday the 28^th at 7:00 p.m. Since then no problems with
missing data.


No idea what the problem was – I did not reboot. Something just didn’t
play nice for that week with that specific channel. I had checked with
Robert at SchedulesDirect and he said data was going on properly there,
so the problem was confirmed to be on my end.


As I mentioned, just wanted to close this thread so if anyone else had a
similar problem they wouldn’t be left hanging. And no, no other channels
exhibited this issue.


Barry