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Slightly OT: Harmony Hub alternative with actual remote
With Logitech discontinuing its Harmony line, I was curious if anyone was
aware of a Harmony Companion alternative that:
- does IR/Bluetooth/WiFi
- does activities (eg, Watch Movies will turn on Blu-ray, turn on TV and
AVR, switch inputs)
- has both an app AND a physical remote like the Companion does

Thanks.
Re: Slightly OT: Harmony Hub alternative with actual remote [ In reply to ]
On 4/11/21 6:27 AM, Ian Evans wrote:
> With Logitech discontinuing its Harmony line, I was curious if anyone
> was aware of a Harmony Companion alternative that:
> - does IR/Bluetooth/WiFi
> - does activities (eg, Watch Movies will turn on Blu-ray, turn on TV
> and AVR, switch inputs)
> - has both an app AND a physical remote like the Companion does
>
> Thanks.


I'm also worried about the Logitech/Harmony announcement. I use the
Smart Control Hub and physical remote. While they say they will continue
to support for a while, I hope they don't take down the servers that the
phone app checks each time you edit anything including button functions.

I'm looking for alternatives now. I can see why their business is going
away. With new equipment the normal TV remotes work.

My wife has a new Samsung UHD TV with a Polk Audio sound bar and
subwoofer. The TV has a CEC remote and it controls the FireTV 4K stick
she uses for Mythtv-Leanfront. She's never asking for help figuring out
anything so I know it all plays nicely together.

I, on the other hand, have too many things to control.

UHD TV, Denon AVR. AMD Ryzen PC, Raspberry Pi 4, Bluray player, and
Nvidia Shield TV.

I've been looking for a better remote system/KVM.  the Shield TV
requires a Bluetooth keyboard. The Raspberry Pi 4 and AMD PC each has a
wireless keyboard/mouse.

So I'll be very interested in finding a new solution. Might be a good
project for a couple of Arduino/Circuitpython MCUs and RPI.

Jim A


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Re: Slightly OT: Harmony Hub alternative with actual remote [ In reply to ]
On 11/04/2021 12:28, Jim Abernathy wrote:
>
> On 4/11/21 6:27 AM, Ian Evans wrote:
>> With Logitech discontinuing its Harmony line, I was curious if anyone
>> was aware of a Harmony Companion alternative that:
>> - does IR/Bluetooth/WiFi
>> - does activities (eg, Watch Movies will turn on Blu-ray, turn on TV
>> and AVR, switch inputs)
>> - has both an app AND a physical remote like the Companion does
>>
>> Thanks.
>
>
> I'm also worried about the Logitech/Harmony announcement. I use the
> Smart Control Hub and physical remote. While they say they will continue
> to support for a while, I hope they don't take down the servers that the
> phone app checks each time you edit anything including button functions.

Yes, it'll be a pain if they shut down all the accounts, and we can no
longer reprogram our remotes. I have no plans to add any new devices, so
that may not be a disaster, but also the buttons wear out. I'm wondering
whether to pick up a 350 while they're still about. I currently have an
old 650. Anyone know whether the modern 350 includes all the features of
the 650? Well, there's no screen for a start.
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Re: Slightly OT: Harmony Hub alternative with actual remote [ In reply to ]
On Sun, Apr 11, 2021 at 10:29 AM Ian Evans <dheianevans@gmail.com> wrote:

> With Logitech discontinuing its Harmony line, I was curious if anyone was aware of a Harmony Companion alternative that:

There are a number of alternatives that exist
in the premium "Home Automation" space(*).
If you thought that the higher end Harmony
solutions were expensive, you ain't seen
nothing yet.

And, the software to configure the devices is
typically not supposed to be (by contract)
available to the end user, as you are expected
to request your solution provider to re-program
the solution as necessary (that is the way the
dealers/providers make their ongoing money,
on followup support).


(*) It has been at least five years since I last
looked at the market, but the vendors included
at least control4, creston, elan and urc. I do
not know the details of their current offerings.
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Re: Slightly OT: Harmony Hub alternative with actual remote [ In reply to ]
On 11/04/2021 13:34, Paul Gardiner wrote:
> On 11/04/2021 12:28, Jim Abernathy wrote:
>>
>> On 4/11/21 6:27 AM, Ian Evans wrote:
>>> With Logitech discontinuing its Harmony line, I was curious if anyone
>>> was aware of a Harmony Companion alternative that:
>>> - does IR/Bluetooth/WiFi
>>> - does activities (eg, Watch Movies will turn on Blu-ray, turn on TV
>>> and AVR, switch inputs)
>>> - has both an app AND a physical remote like the Companion does
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>> I'm also worried about the Logitech/Harmony announcement. I use the
>> Smart Control Hub and physical remote. While they say they will
>> continue to support for a while, I hope they don't take down the
>> servers that the phone app checks each time you edit anything
>> including button functions.
>
> Yes, it'll be a pain if they shut down all the accounts, and we can no
> longer reprogram our remotes. I have no plans to add any new devices, so
> that may not be a disaster, but also the buttons wear out. I'm wondering
> whether to pick up a 350 while they're still about. I currently have an
> old 650. Anyone know whether the modern 350 includes all the features of
> the 650? Well, there's no screen for a start.

Oh! 350 supports only one activity, so I can forget that.
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Re: Slightly OT: Harmony Hub alternative with actual remote [ In reply to ]
On Sun, Apr 11, 2021 at 11:30 AM Jim Abernathy <jfabernathy@gmail.com> wrote:

> So I'll be very interested in finding a new solution. Might be a good
> project for a couple of Arduino/Circuitpython MCUs and RPI.

The hard part to replace with a home
grown solution is typically the physical
remote, as not only do you have to
design the remote, you then have to
work with a contract manufacturer to
be able to actually make it(*), and then
place orders with a large number of
units to amortize all the costs.



(*) And most of the time have on-site
people to work and validate the process
(which also means people who can
speak the native language of the
country where the manufacturing is
done, which means yet another
contract employee).
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Re: Slightly OT: Harmony Hub alternative with actual remote [ In reply to ]
On 11/04/2021 13:51, Gary Buhrmaster wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 11, 2021 at 11:30 AM Jim Abernathy <jfabernathy@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> So I'll be very interested in finding a new solution. Might be a good
>> project for a couple of Arduino/Circuitpython MCUs and RPI.
>
> The hard part to replace with a home
> grown solution is typically the physical
> remote, as not only do you have to
> design the remote, you then have to
> work with a contract manufacturer to
> be able to actually make it(*), and then
> place orders with a large number of
> units to amortize all the costs.
>
>
>
> (*) And most of the time have on-site
> people to work and validate the process
> (which also means people who can
> speak the native language of the
> country where the manufacturing is
> done, which means yet another
> contract employee).
>
Presumably one simply uses one of the many remotes we have kicking about in that box and programs
the software to understand that one, taking the commands and sending them off in whatever format and
medium the target requires.

--

Mike Perkins

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Re: Slightly OT: Harmony Hub alternative with actual remote [ In reply to ]
On Sun, Apr 11, 2021, 10:00 AM Mike Perkins, <mikep@randomtraveller.org.uk>
wrote:

> On 11/04/2021 13:51, Gary Buhrmaster wrote:
> > On Sun, Apr 11, 2021 at 11:30 AM Jim Abernathy <jfabernathy@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> So I'll be very interested in finding a new solution. Might be a good
> >> project for a couple of Arduino/Circuitpython MCUs and RPI.
> >
> > The hard part to replace with a home
> > grown solution is typically the physical
> > remote, as not only do you have to
> > design the remote, you then have to
> > work with a contract manufacturer to
> > be able to actually make it(*), and then
> > place orders with a large number of
> > units to amortize all the costs.
> >
> >
> >
> > (*) And most of the time have on-site
> > people to work and validate the process
> > (which also means people who can
> > speak the native language of the
> > country where the manufacturing is
> > done, which means yet another
> > contract employee).
> >
> Presumably one simply uses one of the many remotes we have kicking about
> in that box and programs
> the software to understand that one, taking the commands and sending them
> off in whatever format and
> medium the target requires.
>
> --
>
>
>
Just reading and watching some YouTube videos on the Sofabaton U1 remote.
Does IR and Bluetooth and has macros.

Not sure if it can be made to emulate a Bluetooth keyboard, which would be
a great lirc free way of controlling MythTV.

>
>
Re: Slightly OT: Harmony Hub alternative with actual remote [ In reply to ]
On 04/11/2021 09:59 AM, Mike Perkins wrote:
> On 11/04/2021 13:51, Gary Buhrmaster wrote:
>> On Sun, Apr 11, 2021 at 11:30 AM Jim Abernathy
>> <jfabernathy@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> So I'll be very interested in finding a new solution. Might be a good
>>> project for a couple of Arduino/Circuitpython MCUs and RPI.
>>
>> The hard part to replace with a home
>> grown solution is typically the physical
>> remote, as not only do you have to
>> design the remote, you then have to
>> work with a contract manufacturer to
>> be able to actually make it(*), and then
>> place orders with a large number of
>> units to amortize all the costs.
>>
>>
>>
>> (*) And most of the time have on-site
>> people to work and validate the process
>> (which also means people who can
>> speak the native language of the
>> country where the manufacturing is
>> done, which means yet another
>> contract employee).
>>
> Presumably one simply uses one of the many remotes we have kicking
> about in that box

The problem is the remotes in that box don't send RF to a hub which then
sends IR to devices, but instead sends IR line of sight (plus bounce) to
whatever device/room the remote is pointed at. Finding a remote is
easy. Finding a whole house remote that works as well as the Harmony
remote and without walls in the way (and the X10 Lola style/Remote
Wonder remotes aren't even close) is a challenge.

> and programs the software to understand that one, taking the commands
> and sending them off in whatever format and medium the target requires.
>

I agree with Gary. Replacing the Harmony remote--not the
software/hub--is the challenge.

Before Harmony I had even looked at BLE remote development kits, like
https://www.ti.com/tool/CC2541DK-RC , but the remote devices themselves
were so much lower quality than the Harmony remotes.

Mike
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Re: Slightly OT: Harmony Hub alternative with actual remote [ In reply to ]
On 4/14/21 9:09 AM, Michael T. Dean wrote:
> On 04/11/2021 09:59 AM, Mike Perkins wrote:
>> On 11/04/2021 13:51, Gary Buhrmaster wrote:
>>> On Sun, Apr 11, 2021 at 11:30 AM Jim Abernathy
>>> <jfabernathy@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> So I'll be very interested in finding a new solution. Might be a good
>>>> project for a couple of Arduino/Circuitpython MCUs and RPI.
>>>
>>> The hard part to replace with a home
>>> grown solution is typically the physical
>>> remote, as not only do you have to
>>> design the remote, you then have to
>>> work with a contract manufacturer to
>>> be able to actually make it(*), and then
>>> place orders with a large number of
>>> units to amortize all the costs.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> (*) And most of the time have on-site
>>> people to work and validate the process
>>> (which also means people who can
>>> speak the native language of the
>>> country where the manufacturing is
>>> done, which means yet another
>>> contract employee).
>>>
>> Presumably one simply uses one of the many remotes we have kicking
>> about in that box
>
> The problem is the remotes in that box don't send RF to a hub which
> then sends IR to devices, but instead sends IR line of sight (plus
> bounce) to whatever device/room the remote is pointed at. Finding a
> remote is easy.  Finding a whole house remote that works as well as
> the Harmony remote and without walls in the way (and the X10 Lola
> style/Remote Wonder remotes aren't even close) is a challenge.
>
>> and programs the software to understand that one, taking the commands
>> and sending them off in whatever format and medium the target requires.
>>
>
> I agree with Gary.  Replacing the Harmony remote--not the
> software/hub--is the challenge.
>
> Before Harmony I had even looked at BLE remote development kits, like
> https://www.ti.com/tool/CC2541DK-RC , but the remote devices
> themselves were so much lower quality than the Harmony remotes.
>
> Mike


On the recently made Samsung UHDs, their remote can control the TV,
Sound system, Fire TV 4k, almost any device that supports CEC. So my
wife is perfectly happy using it for Netflix, Prime Video, Youtube,
Leanfront, and mythfrontend.

However, I use many more capabilities of mythfrontend on Android so I
paired and old BT Mac wireless keyboard to my Shield TV so I could
easily hit the many keys that are needed for edits, searches, etc.

Where the Harmony Smart Control Hub and remote really shine is turning
on/off and setting input modes of all the devices in a non-trivial setup.

So here's hoping the Logitech folks don't pull the plug on there app or
server for a long time.

Jim A.


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Re: Slightly OT: Harmony Hub alternative with actual remote [ In reply to ]
Logitech is pulling the plug on harmony remotes: https://www.cepro.com/control/interfaces-devices/logitech-harmony-remote-controls-officially-discontinued/

A shame really. They are really nice remotes. I use a Harmony 650 with an IguanaIR receiver set up as a Hauppauge PVR-350 (these were popular at one time).

If you use IguanaIR, make sure to change

#driver = devinput
driver = default

in lirc_options.conf or it won't work.

-----Original Message-----
From: mythtv-users <mythtv-users-bounces@mythtv.org> On Behalf Of Jim Abernathy
So here's hoping the Logitech folks don't pull the plug on there app or server for a long time.



--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

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Re: Slightly OT: Harmony Hub alternative with actual remote [ In reply to ]
On Wed, Apr 14, 2021 at 09:09:41AM -0400, Michael T. Dean wrote:
> The problem is the remotes in that box don't send RF to a hub which then
> sends IR to devices, but instead sends IR line of sight (plus bounce) to
> whatever device/room the remote is pointed at. Finding a remote is easy.
> Finding a whole house remote that works as well as the Harmony remote and
> without walls in the way (and the X10 Lola style/Remote Wonder remotes
> aren't even close) is a challenge.
>
> [...]
>
> I agree with Gary. Replacing the Harmony remote--not the software/hub--is
> the challenge.
>
> Before Harmony I had even looked at BLE remote development kits, like
> https://www.ti.com/tool/CC2541DK-RC , but the remote devices themselves were
> so much lower quality than the Harmony remotes.

I'm as sad as anyone about the Harmony news. I intend to use mine for
as long as I can. When the end does come, the Sofabaton U1 *might* be
able to fill enough of the void to keep me reasonably happy. It has
BT to control my Nvidia Shield. For IR repeating, I could possibly
use an RPi connected to the remote using BT.

David
--
David Engel
david@istwok.net
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Re: Slightly OT: Harmony Hub alternative with actual remote [ In reply to ]
On Wed, Apr 14, 2021 at 1:12 PM Michael T. Dean <mtdean@thirdcontact.com> wrote:

> The problem is the remotes in that box don't send RF to a hub which then
> sends IR to devices,

Or bluetooth, or wifi or zigbee (although I suspect
there are not a lot of people using the zigbee
support for doing things like controlling lights).
But for a full replacement for a Harmony in
your environment you may need such capabilities
(which is why some users, especially of the
higher end units, are so unhappy, since moving
up to the home automation line(s) is not cheap).
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Re: Slightly OT: Harmony Hub alternative with actual remote [ In reply to ]
On 11/04/2021 11:27, Ian Evans wrote:
> With Logitech discontinuing its Harmony line, I was curious if anyone
> was aware of a Harmony Companion alternative that:
> - does IR/Bluetooth/WiFi
> - does activities (eg, Watch Movies will turn on Blu-ray, turn on TV and
> AVR, switch inputs)
> - has both an app AND a physical remote like the Companion does

I reckon the Sofabaton U1 could do the job. It seems not to have the
concept of activity, but it supports 50 configurations, each allowing
every button to be arbitrarily configured, including macros. I would
have thought one button could be reserved for switching, so the
activity-swapping procedure would be two-stage: first select the new
configuration then press the switching button. Other than that, it would
work like a harmony.
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