Mailing List Archive

Stupid Fire Stick Match Frame Rate feature
This is not really a mythtv question, but it is related. I've been using
Leanfront a lot lately. It's just awesome now. It seems to play
perfectly anything I throw at it. Possibly, if I hadn't already recently
acquired a NUC-based front end, I might now not bother.

Still, that said, what ruins it is how useless is the Fire Stick 4K's
match frame rate feature. I'm wondering if others are seeing the flaw I
see. Every time I power cycle it, or power cycle my AV receiver, or even
switch the AV received away from the Fire Stick, it seems to forget my
TVs modes. The setting pertains: the fire stick still shows display mode
on automatic and the match-frame-rate feature enabled, but neither
leanfront or Prime video will switch. Leanfront explicitly reports that
the mode it wants isn't present.

I can make it work by temporarily switching the fire stick to 1080p60
and then back to automatic plus reenabling the match feature. Works
perfectly, but I have to do that every time I turn it on.

I find it sort of pathetic. The fire stick is produced by a company with
huge resources and with one purpose - to play video. How can they be
content with such a flaw.

And Netflix?! Another company with huge resources and exist only to
supply video, yet their app doesn't even support frame rate switching.

I guess, mitigating this for many is the smoothing feature that many
modern TVs have, which make motion a little unnatural, but can hide
frame rate mismatch. Seems a terrible solution to me.
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Re: Stupid Fire Stick Match Frame Rate feature [ In reply to ]
On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 3:23 PM Paul Gardiner <lists@glidos.net> wrote:

> This is not really a mythtv question, but it is related. I've been using
> Leanfront a lot lately. It's just awesome now. It seems to play
> perfectly anything I throw at it. Possibly, if I hadn't already recently
> acquired a NUC-based front end, I might now not bother.
>
> Still, that said, what ruins it is how useless is the Fire Stick 4K's
> match frame rate feature. I'm wondering if others are seeing the flaw I
> see. Every time I power cycle it, or power cycle my AV receiver, or even
> switch the AV received away from the Fire Stick, it seems to forget my
> TVs modes. The setting pertains: the fire stick still shows display mode
> on automatic and the match-frame-rate feature enabled, but neither
> leanfront or Prime video will switch. Leanfront explicitly reports that
> the mode it wants isn't present.
>
> I can make it work by temporarily switching the fire stick to 1080p60
> and then back to automatic plus reenabling the match feature. Works
> perfectly, but I have to do that every time I turn it on.
>
> I find it sort of pathetic. The fire stick is produced by a company with
> huge resources and with one purpose - to play video. How can they be
> content with such a flaw.
>
> And Netflix?! Another company with huge resources and exist only to
> supply video, yet their app doesn't even support frame rate switching.
>
> I guess, mitigating this for many is the smoothing feature that many
> modern TVs have, which make motion a little unnatural, but can hide
> frame rate mismatch. Seems a terrible solution to me.
>

Since all my use of Mythtv is in the USA, matching framerate is not an
issue since everything is already matched.

However, I also use FireTV 4K stick and Nvidia Shield TV for Netflix and
Prime Video where a lot of the content is from countries with 50 or 25. For
me the FireTV 4K seems to not have a framerate issue on Netflix for
programs like The Crown which does have issues on the Shield TV. Since my
primary TV is connected to the Shield and my wife's TV is using the FireTV
4k, I have not tested a lot with the FireTV.

Luckily my TV is a Samsung UHD and it's Netflix and Prime Video apps have
no issue with frame rates. So I just use the TV app.
Re: Stupid Fire Stick Match Frame Rate feature [ In reply to ]
On 3/27/21 3:21 PM, Paul Gardiner wrote:
> This is not really a mythtv question, but it is related. I've been
> using Leanfront a lot lately. It's just awesome now. It seems to play
> perfectly anything I throw at it. Possibly, if I hadn't already
> recently acquired a NUC-based front end, I might now not bother.
>
> Still, that said, what ruins it is how useless is the Fire Stick 4K's
> match frame rate feature. I'm wondering if others are seeing the flaw
> I see. Every time I power cycle it, or power cycle my AV receiver, or
> even switch the AV received away from the Fire Stick, it seems to
> forget my TVs modes. The setting pertains: the fire stick still shows
> display mode on automatic and the match-frame-rate feature enabled,
> but neither leanfront or Prime video will switch. Leanfront explicitly
> reports that the mode it wants isn't present.
>
> I can make it work by temporarily switching the fire stick to 1080p60
> and then back to automatic plus reenabling the match feature. Works
> perfectly, but I have to do that every time I turn it on.
>
> I find it sort of pathetic. The fire stick is produced by a company
> with huge resources and with one purpose - to play video. How can they
> be content with such a flaw.
>
> And Netflix?! Another company with huge resources and exist only to
> supply video, yet their app doesn't even support frame rate switching.
>
> I guess, mitigating this for many is the smoothing feature that many
> modern TVs have, which make motion a little unnatural, but can hide
> frame rate mismatch. Seems a terrible solution to me.
>
I have never seen this problem. I have fire stick 4k's on several TV's
and they switch frame rate without a problem. I have the fire stick
plugged directly into the TV. I suspect your AV receiver is confusing
things somehow. Does "match original frame rate" in the fire stick
settings get disabled?

Does this happen if you plug the fire stick directly into the TV?

Frame rate switching in leanfront also works on nvidia shield. If you
have a shield you could try it there to narrow down whether it is a
problem specific to the fire stick.

I plug the fire stick directly into the TV, then take optical output
from the TV to the audio system. This successfully carries dolby digital
to the audio system without having the audio system in between the TV
and the fire stick. Another option may be to use a splitter to pass the
hdmi to the tv and the audio system.

Peter

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Re: Stupid Fire Stick Match Frame Rate feature [ In reply to ]
On 27/03/2021 19:46, James Abernathy wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 3:23 PM Paul Gardiner <lists@glidos.net
> <mailto:lists@glidos.net>> wrote:
>
> This is not really a mythtv question, but it is related. I've been
> using
> Leanfront a lot lately. It's just awesome now. It seems to play
> perfectly anything I throw at it. Possibly, if I hadn't already
> recently
> acquired a NUC-based front end, I might now not bother.
>
> Still, that said, what ruins it is how useless is the Fire Stick 4K's
> match frame rate feature. I'm wondering if others are seeing the flaw I
> see. Every time I power cycle it, or power cycle my AV receiver, or
> even
> switch the AV received away from the Fire Stick, it seems to forget my
> TVs modes. The setting pertains: the fire stick still shows display
> mode
> on automatic and the match-frame-rate feature enabled, but neither
> leanfront or Prime video will switch. Leanfront explicitly reports that
> the mode it wants isn't present.
>
> I can make it work by temporarily switching the fire stick to 1080p60
> and then back to automatic plus reenabling the match feature. Works
> perfectly, but I have to do that every time I turn it on.
>
> I find it sort of pathetic. The fire stick is produced by a company
> with
> huge resources and with one purpose - to play video. How can they be
> content with such a flaw.
>
> And Netflix?! Another company with huge resources and exist only to
> supply video, yet their app doesn't even support frame rate switching.
>
> I guess, mitigating this for many is the smoothing feature that many
> modern TVs have, which make motion a little unnatural, but can hide
> frame rate mismatch. Seems a terrible solution to me.
>
>
> Since all my use of Mythtv is in the USA, matching framerate is not an
> issue since everything is already matched.

Yes, that would be true of anything you record, but movies played via
mythvideo would likely be 24fps, if you ever do that. 24fps played into
a TV running at 60fps makes the motion look sort of hard (not a good
word for it. I find it difficult to describe but it's fairly obvious).

> However, I also use FireTV 4K stick and Nvidia Shield TV for Netflix and
> Prime Video where a lot of the content is from countries with 50 or 25.
> For me the FireTV 4K seems to not have a framerate issue on Netflix for
> programs like The Crown which does have issues on the Shield TV.  Since
> my primary TV is connected to the Shield and my wife's TV is using the
> FireTV 4k, I have not tested a lot with the FireTV.

Interesting. Given that my experience shows that the problem is at least
possible on the FireTV, and as far as I know always present with the
Netflix app for programs like the Crown because their app doesn't
support frame-rate switching, I wonder if the difference in your case is
related to whether the TV can mitigate the incorrect frame rate, rather
than related to the source... unless the TVs are the same model.

> Luckily my TV is a Samsung UHD and it's Netflix and Prime Video apps
> have no issue with frame rates. So I just use the TV app.

I can quite believe that built in apps work better.
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Re: Stupid Fire Stick Match Frame Rate feature [ In reply to ]
On 27/03/2021 19:55, Peter Bennett wrote:
>
> On 3/27/21 3:21 PM, Paul Gardiner wrote:
>> This is not really a mythtv question, but it is related. I've been
>> using Leanfront a lot lately. It's just awesome now. It seems to play
>> perfectly anything I throw at it. Possibly, if I hadn't already
>> recently acquired a NUC-based front end, I might now not bother.
>>
>> Still, that said, what ruins it is how useless is the Fire Stick 4K's
>> match frame rate feature. I'm wondering if others are seeing the flaw
>> I see. Every time I power cycle it, or power cycle my AV receiver, or
>> even switch the AV received away from the Fire Stick, it seems to
>> forget my TVs modes. The setting pertains: the fire stick still shows
>> display mode on automatic and the match-frame-rate feature enabled,
>> but neither leanfront or Prime video will switch. Leanfront explicitly
>> reports that the mode it wants isn't present.
>>
>> I can make it work by temporarily switching the fire stick to 1080p60
>> and then back to automatic plus reenabling the match feature. Works
>> perfectly, but I have to do that every time I turn it on.
>>
>> I find it sort of pathetic. The fire stick is produced by a company
>> with huge resources and with one purpose - to play video. How can they
>> be content with such a flaw.
>>
>> And Netflix?! Another company with huge resources and exist only to
>> supply video, yet their app doesn't even support frame rate switching.
>>
>> I guess, mitigating this for many is the smoothing feature that many
>> modern TVs have, which make motion a little unnatural, but can hide
>> frame rate mismatch. Seems a terrible solution to me.
>>
> I have never seen this problem. I have fire stick 4k's on several TV's
> and they switch frame rate without a problem.

And I'm guessing by that you mean, not only does the video look good,
but you see the explicit switching message. You must mean that: you'd
have noticed if it was otherwise.

> I have the fire stick
> plugged directly into the TV. I suspect your AV receiver is confusing
> things somehow. Does "match original frame rate" in the fire stick
> settings get disabled?

No, the setting stays set. It was entirely a mystery when I was using
just the Amazon Prime app, but Leanfront gives more information. It
still "considers" switching but reports the mode it wants not present.
(A much better written app than Amazon Prime :-) )

> Does this happen if you plug the fire stick directly into the TV?

I haven't tried that, but perhaps I should. I've been assuming all is
fine with my set up because my mythfrontent always switches faultlessly,
but I've just realise it's cheating in that I have it loading EDID from
a binary file. That's also reminded me that it used to work before I
loaded EDID, but only if I turned on the AV receiver before the
frontend. It may be that the FireTV picks up EDID only on boot and when
the display settings are changed... although that wouldn't explain why
you've never seen the problem... so I guess not.

> Frame rate switching in leanfront also works on nvidia shield. If you
> have a shield you could try it there to narrow down whether it is a
> problem specific to the fire stick.

No shield to try this on, sadly.

> I plug the fire stick directly into the TV, then take optical output
> from the TV to the audio system. This successfully carries dolby digital
> to the audio system without having the audio system in between the TV
> and the fire stick. Another option may be to use a splitter to pass the
> hdmi to the tv and the audio system.

That's sounds like good advice. That set up never occurred to me. I'd
hope my TV has optical out.
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Re: Stupid Fire Stick Match Frame Rate feature [ In reply to ]
On 27/03/2021 20:42, Paul Gardiner wrote:
> On 27/03/2021 19:55, Peter Bennett wrote:
>> Does this happen if you plug the fire stick directly into the TV?
>
> I haven't tried that, but perhaps I should. I've been assuming all is
> fine with my set up because my mythfrontent always switches faultlessly,
> but I've just realise it's cheating in that I have it loading EDID from
> a binary file. That's also reminded me that it used to work before I
> loaded EDID, but only if I turned on the AV receiver before the
> frontend. It may be that the FireTV picks up EDID only on boot and when
> the display settings are changed... although that wouldn't explain why
> you've never seen the problem... so I guess not.

Yes, nothing to do with the order in which components are turned on. I
tried, while leaving TV and receiver turned on, resetting the FireTV: no
luck. I tried removing and replugging the FireTV's power: no luck. I set
it to 60fps, back to automatic and reenabled fps matching and it works
just fine. Still a bit of a mystery.

>> I plug the fire stick directly into the TV, then take optical output
>> from the TV to the audio system. This successfully carries dolby
>> digital to the audio system without having the audio system in between
>> the TV and the fire stick. Another option may be to use a splitter to
>> pass the hdmi to the tv and the audio system.
>
> That's sounds like good advice. That set up never occurred to me. I'd
> hope my TV has optical out.

Apparently my TV can pass through only stereo. How does the splitter
idea work? How would one arrange which branch the EDID is fetched from?
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Re: Stupid Fire Stick Match Frame Rate feature [ In reply to ]
On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 4:44 PM Paul Gardiner <lists@glidos.net> wrote:

> On 27/03/2021 19:55, Peter Bennett wrote:
> >
> > On 3/27/21 3:21 PM, Paul Gardiner wrote:
> >> This is not really a mythtv question, but it is related. I've been
> >> using Leanfront a lot lately. It's just awesome now. It seems to play
> >> perfectly anything I throw at it. Possibly, if I hadn't already
> >> recently acquired a NUC-based front end, I might now not bother.
> >>
> >> Still, that said, what ruins it is how useless is the Fire Stick 4K's
> >> match frame rate feature. I'm wondering if others are seeing the flaw
> >> I see. Every time I power cycle it, or power cycle my AV receiver, or
> >> even switch the AV received away from the Fire Stick, it seems to
> >> forget my TVs modes. The setting pertains: the fire stick still shows
> >> display mode on automatic and the match-frame-rate feature enabled,
> >> but neither leanfront or Prime video will switch. Leanfront explicitly
> >> reports that the mode it wants isn't present.
> >>
> >> I can make it work by temporarily switching the fire stick to 1080p60
> >> and then back to automatic plus reenabling the match feature. Works
> >> perfectly, but I have to do that every time I turn it on.
> >>
> >> I find it sort of pathetic. The fire stick is produced by a company
> >> with huge resources and with one purpose - to play video. How can they
> >> be content with such a flaw.
> >>
> >> And Netflix?! Another company with huge resources and exist only to
> >> supply video, yet their app doesn't even support frame rate switching.
> >>
> >> I guess, mitigating this for many is the smoothing feature that many
> >> modern TVs have, which make motion a little unnatural, but can hide
> >> frame rate mismatch. Seems a terrible solution to me.
> >>
> > I have never seen this problem. I have fire stick 4k's on several TV's
> > and they switch frame rate without a problem.
>
> And I'm guessing by that you mean, not only does the video look good,
> but you see the explicit switching message. You must mean that: you'd
> have noticed if it was otherwise.
>
> > I have the fire stick
> > plugged directly into the TV. I suspect your AV receiver is confusing
> > things somehow. Does "match original frame rate" in the fire stick
> > settings get disabled?
>
> No, the setting stays set. It was entirely a mystery when I was using
> just the Amazon Prime app, but Leanfront gives more information. It
> still "considers" switching but reports the mode it wants not present.
> (A much better written app than Amazon Prime :-) )
>
> > Does this happen if you plug the fire stick directly into the TV?
>
> I haven't tried that, but perhaps I should. I've been assuming all is
> fine with my set up because my mythfrontent always switches faultlessly,
> but I've just realise it's cheating in that I have it loading EDID from
> a binary file. That's also reminded me that it used to work before I
> loaded EDID, but only if I turned on the AV receiver before the
> frontend. It may be that the FireTV picks up EDID only on boot and when
> the display settings are changed... although that wouldn't explain why
> you've never seen the problem... so I guess not.
>
> > Frame rate switching in leanfront also works on nvidia shield. If you
> > have a shield you could try it there to narrow down whether it is a
> > problem specific to the fire stick.
>
> No shield to try this on, sadly.
>
> > I plug the fire stick directly into the TV, then take optical output
> > from the TV to the audio system. This successfully carries dolby digital
> > to the audio system without having the audio system in between the TV
> > and the fire stick. Another option may be to use a splitter to pass the
> > hdmi to the tv and the audio system.
>
> That's sounds like good advice. That set up never occurred to me. I'd
> hope my TV has optical out.
>
>
My FireTV 4k Stick is plugged directly into a really old Sony XBR6 TV. I
don't think the TV is doing any compassating or correction.
I just spent some time testing on FireTV 4K with some British Crime dramas
on Prime Video and they play very well just like USA TV.

However, the Shield TV seems to be a lost cause. At one time I could get
the framerate matching beta fix to work, but your really need a newer
Shield TV with the fancy new remote with the setting button.

Jim A
Re: Stupid Fire Stick Match Frame Rate feature [ In reply to ]
On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 5:16 PM James Abernathy <jfabernathy@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
> On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 4:44 PM Paul Gardiner <lists@glidos.net> wrote:
>
>> On 27/03/2021 19:55, Peter Bennett wrote:
>> >
>> > On 3/27/21 3:21 PM, Paul Gardiner wrote:
>> >> This is not really a mythtv question, but it is related. I've been
>> >> using Leanfront a lot lately. It's just awesome now. It seems to play
>> >> perfectly anything I throw at it. Possibly, if I hadn't already
>> >> recently acquired a NUC-based front end, I might now not bother.
>> >>
>> >> Still, that said, what ruins it is how useless is the Fire Stick 4K's
>> >> match frame rate feature. I'm wondering if others are seeing the flaw
>> >> I see. Every time I power cycle it, or power cycle my AV receiver, or
>> >> even switch the AV received away from the Fire Stick, it seems to
>> >> forget my TVs modes. The setting pertains: the fire stick still shows
>> >> display mode on automatic and the match-frame-rate feature enabled,
>> >> but neither leanfront or Prime video will switch. Leanfront explicitly
>> >> reports that the mode it wants isn't present.
>> >>
>> >> I can make it work by temporarily switching the fire stick to 1080p60
>> >> and then back to automatic plus reenabling the match feature. Works
>> >> perfectly, but I have to do that every time I turn it on.
>> >>
>> >> I find it sort of pathetic. The fire stick is produced by a company
>> >> with huge resources and with one purpose - to play video. How can they
>> >> be content with such a flaw.
>> >>
>> >> And Netflix?! Another company with huge resources and exist only to
>> >> supply video, yet their app doesn't even support frame rate switching.
>> >>
>> >> I guess, mitigating this for many is the smoothing feature that many
>> >> modern TVs have, which make motion a little unnatural, but can hide
>> >> frame rate mismatch. Seems a terrible solution to me.
>> >>
>> > I have never seen this problem. I have fire stick 4k's on several TV's
>> > and they switch frame rate without a problem.
>>
>> And I'm guessing by that you mean, not only does the video look good,
>> but you see the explicit switching message. You must mean that: you'd
>> have noticed if it was otherwise.
>>
>> > I have the fire stick
>> > plugged directly into the TV. I suspect your AV receiver is confusing
>> > things somehow. Does "match original frame rate" in the fire stick
>> > settings get disabled?
>>
>> No, the setting stays set. It was entirely a mystery when I was using
>> just the Amazon Prime app, but Leanfront gives more information. It
>> still "considers" switching but reports the mode it wants not present.
>> (A much better written app than Amazon Prime :-) )
>>
>> > Does this happen if you plug the fire stick directly into the TV?
>>
>> I haven't tried that, but perhaps I should. I've been assuming all is
>> fine with my set up because my mythfrontent always switches faultlessly,
>> but I've just realise it's cheating in that I have it loading EDID from
>> a binary file. That's also reminded me that it used to work before I
>> loaded EDID, but only if I turned on the AV receiver before the
>> frontend. It may be that the FireTV picks up EDID only on boot and when
>> the display settings are changed... although that wouldn't explain why
>> you've never seen the problem... so I guess not.
>>
>> > Frame rate switching in leanfront also works on nvidia shield. If you
>> > have a shield you could try it there to narrow down whether it is a
>> > problem specific to the fire stick.
>>
>> No shield to try this on, sadly.
>>
>> > I plug the fire stick directly into the TV, then take optical output
>> > from the TV to the audio system. This successfully carries dolby
>> digital
>> > to the audio system without having the audio system in between the TV
>> > and the fire stick. Another option may be to use a splitter to pass the
>> > hdmi to the tv and the audio system.
>>
>> That's sounds like good advice. That set up never occurred to me. I'd
>> hope my TV has optical out.
>>
>>
> My FireTV 4k Stick is plugged directly into a really old Sony XBR6 TV. I
> don't think the TV is doing any compassating or correction.
> I just spent some time testing on FireTV 4K with some British Crime dramas
> on Prime Video and they play very well just like USA TV.
>
> However, the Shield TV seems to be a lost cause. At one time I could get
> the framerate matching beta fix to work, but your really need a newer
> Shield TV with the fancy new remote with the setting button.
>
> Jim A
>
>
I use a HDMI 2.0 splitter and also a HDMI 2.0 switch in my setup. My UHD
TV only has 2 HDMI inputs and I have 4 UHD devices. So The output of the
switch goes to the HDMI 2.0 splitter with one output going to my AV
receiver and the other going to the TV.

My TV will not pass 5.1, but sound from the TV apps can pass multi-channel
sound to the AV receiver via optical. Short of buying a lot of new
equipment, this will have to do.

Jim A
Re: Stupid Fire Stick Match Frame Rate feature [ In reply to ]
On 27/03/2021 21:22, James Abernathy wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 5:16 PM James Abernathy <jfabernathy@gmail.com
> <mailto:jfabernathy@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 4:44 PM Paul Gardiner <lists@glidos.net
> <mailto:lists@glidos.net>> wrote:
>
> On 27/03/2021 19:55, Peter Bennett wrote:
> >
> > On 3/27/21 3:21 PM, Paul Gardiner wrote:
> >> This is not really a mythtv question, but it is related.
> I've been
> >> using Leanfront a lot lately. It's just awesome now. It
> seems to play
> >> perfectly anything I throw at it. Possibly, if I hadn't already
> >> recently acquired a NUC-based front end, I might now not bother.
> >>
> >> Still, that said, what ruins it is how useless is the Fire
> Stick 4K's
> >> match frame rate feature. I'm wondering if others are seeing
> the flaw
> >> I see. Every time I power cycle it, or power cycle my AV
> receiver, or
> >> even switch the AV received away from the Fire Stick, it
> seems to
> >> forget my TVs modes. The setting pertains: the fire stick
> still shows
> >> display mode on automatic and the match-frame-rate feature
> enabled,
> >> but neither leanfront or Prime video will switch. Leanfront
> explicitly
> >> reports that the mode it wants isn't present.
> >>
> >> I can make it work by temporarily switching the fire stick
> to 1080p60
> >> and then back to automatic plus reenabling the match
> feature. Works
> >> perfectly, but I have to do that every time I turn it on.
> >>
> >> I find it sort of pathetic. The fire stick is produced by a
> company
> >> with huge resources and with one purpose - to play video.
> How can they
> >> be content with such a flaw.
> >>
> >> And Netflix?! Another company with huge resources and exist
> only to
> >> supply video, yet their app doesn't even support frame rate
> switching.
> >>
> >> I guess, mitigating this for many is the smoothing feature
> that many
> >> modern TVs have, which make motion a little unnatural, but
> can hide
> >> frame rate mismatch. Seems a terrible solution to me.
> >>
> > I have never seen this problem. I have fire stick 4k's on
> several TV's
> > and they switch frame rate without a problem.
>
> And I'm guessing by that you mean, not only does the video look
> good,
> but you see the explicit switching message. You must mean that:
> you'd
> have noticed if it was otherwise.
>
> > I have the fire stick
> > plugged directly into the TV. I suspect your AV receiver is
> confusing
> > things somehow. Does "match original frame rate" in the fire
> stick
> > settings get disabled?
>
> No, the setting stays set. It was entirely a mystery when I was
> using
> just the Amazon Prime app, but Leanfront gives more information. It
> still "considers" switching but reports the mode it wants not
> present.
> (A much better written app than Amazon Prime :-) )
>
> > Does this happen if you plug the fire stick directly into the TV?
>
> I haven't tried that, but perhaps I should. I've been assuming
> all is
> fine with my set up because my mythfrontent always switches
> faultlessly,
> but I've just realise it's cheating in that I have it loading
> EDID from
> a binary file. That's also reminded me that it used to work
> before I
> loaded EDID, but only if I turned on the AV receiver before the
> frontend. It may be that the FireTV picks up EDID only on boot
> and when
> the display settings are changed... although that wouldn't
> explain why
> you've never seen the problem... so I guess not.
>
> > Frame rate switching in leanfront also works on nvidia
> shield. If you
> > have a shield you could try it there to narrow down whether
> it is a
> > problem specific to the fire stick.
>
> No shield to try this on, sadly.
>
> > I plug the fire stick directly into the TV, then take optical
> output
> > from the TV to the audio system. This successfully carries
> dolby digital
> > to the audio system without having the audio system in
> between the TV
> > and the fire stick. Another option may be to use a splitter
> to pass the
> > hdmi to the tv and the audio system.
>
> That's sounds like good advice. That set up never occurred to
> me. I'd
> hope my TV has optical out.
>
>
> My FireTV 4k Stick is plugged directly into a really old Sony XBR6
> TV.  I don't think the TV is doing any compassating or correction.
> I just spent some time testing on FireTV 4K with some British Crime
> dramas on Prime Video and they play very well just like USA TV.
>
> However, the Shield TV seems to be a lost cause.  At one time I
> could get the framerate matching beta fix to work, but your really
> need a newer Shield TV with the fancy new remote with the setting
> button.
>
> Jim A
>
>
> I use a HDMI 2.0 splitter and also a HDMI 2.0 switch in my setup.  My
> UHD TV only has 2 HDMI inputs and I have 4 UHD devices.  So The output
> of the switch goes to the HDMI 2.0 splitter with one output going to my
> AV receiver and the other going to the TV.
>
> My TV will not pass 5.1, but sound from the TV apps can pass
> multi-channel sound to the AV receiver via optical.  Short of buying a
> lot of new equipment, this will have to do.

As you and others have suggested, direct connection to the TV seems to
be significant. I just tried that with my FireTV and it switches
perfectly, so I'm just ordering this:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Neoteck-Extractor-Adjustment-Optical-Converter-Green/dp/B07D7M8LDN/ref=sr_1_11?crid=2WUNHLIO2DLDT&dchild=1&keywords=hdmi+audio+extractor&qid=1616879398&sprefix=hdmi+audio%2Caps%2C174&sr=8-11.
Hopefully that will sort out the problem, and the splitter being in line
wont cause the same problem as the receiver.

Thanks everyone for the help.
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Re: Stupid Fire Stick Match Frame Rate feature [ In reply to ]
On 3/27/21 5:02 PM, Paul Gardiner wrote:
> Apparently my TV can pass through only stereo. How does the splitter
> idea work? How would one arrange which branch the EDID is fetched from?

Did you check the TV settings? My TV has a setting for digital audio
output. You can select bitstream or PCM. If you select PCM you only get
stereo.

Peter


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Re: Stupid Fire Stick Match Frame Rate feature [ In reply to ]
On 3/27/21 5:16 PM, James Abernathy wrote:
> However, the Shield TV seems to be a lost cause.  At one time I could
> get the framerate matching beta fix to work, but your really need a
> newer Shield TV with the fancy new remote with the setting button.
>
I have an old shield. The remote has no setting button. Framerate
switching works. You have to select auto for the display resolution in
the android setup for it to work.
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Re: Stupid Fire Stick Match Frame Rate feature [ In reply to ]
On Sun, Mar 28, 2021 at 9:21 AM Peter Bennett <pb.mythtv@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> On 3/27/21 5:16 PM, James Abernathy wrote:
> > However, the Shield TV seems to be a lost cause. At one time I could
> > get the framerate matching beta fix to work, but your really need a
> > newer Shield TV with the fancy new remote with the setting button.
> >
> I have an old shield. The remote has no setting button. Framerate
> switching works. You have to select auto for the display resolution in
> the android setup for it to work.
>

I can't find any setting for Display Resolution of Auto. It's just set to
the resolution of my UHD TV.

If you can point me to it, that would really help

Jim A
Re: Stupid Fire Stick Match Frame Rate feature [ In reply to ]
On 28/03/2021 14:18, Peter Bennett wrote:
>
> On 3/27/21 5:02 PM, Paul Gardiner wrote:
>> Apparently my TV can pass through only stereo. How does the splitter
>> idea work? How would one arrange which branch the EDID is fetched from?
>
> Did you check the TV settings? My TV has a setting for digital audio
> output. You can select bitstream or PCM. If you select PCM you only get
> stereo.

I was mainly basing my claim on several posts on forums regarding people
trying to do this with the same make of TV. I've tried it myself now,
and I get silence unless I set the FireTV to output stereo. I've also
now looked for a setting in the TVs menus and see nothing there, and
there's a pretty obvious place where it would be.

Still, when it arrives, the splitter may well do the job, and the good
news is the fps-match feature does look to work perfectly when the AV
received is out of the audio path.
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Re: Stupid Fire Stick Match Frame Rate feature [ In reply to ]
On Sun, Mar 28, 2021 at 3:05 PM Paul Gardiner <lists@glidos.net> wrote:

> On 28/03/2021 14:18, Peter Bennett wrote:
> >
> > On 3/27/21 5:02 PM, Paul Gardiner wrote:
> >> Apparently my TV can pass through only stereo. How does the splitter
> >> idea work? How would one arrange which branch the EDID is fetched from?
> >
> > Did you check the TV settings? My TV has a setting for digital audio
> > output. You can select bitstream or PCM. If you select PCM you only get
> > stereo.
>
> I was mainly basing my claim on several posts on forums regarding people
> trying to do this with the same make of TV. I've tried it myself now,
> and I get silence unless I set the FireTV to output stereo. I've also
> now looked for a setting in the TVs menus and see nothing there, and
> there's a pretty obvious place where it would be.
>
> Still, when it arrives, the splitter may well do the job, and the good
> news is the fps-match feature does look to work perfectly when the AV
> received is out of the audio path.
>

Several things. I did a factory reset on my Shield TV and started
reinstalling only what I needed and then set the Quick Settings to ave the
Match Framefate (Beta) option as the top setting. So now if I'm doing
Netflix, I can set the European content to the correct Framerate. It
sometimes takes multiple tries.

Second, I installed Kodi 19.1 on the Shield TV and got the Netflix and
Prime Video working because Kodi can match the famerate correctly
automatically. That's a good solution as well if you like Kodi. And of
course, Mythtv addon works great on Kodi.

3rd I ordered another FireTV 4K and it should arrive tomorrow. That should
solve all my problems based on what my wife's TV does. Hopefully no issues
on a UHD TV.

I'm going to get her to hide the Shield TV where I can't find it before I
run over it with my Car to put it out of its misery.
Re: Stupid Fire Stick Match Frame Rate feature [ In reply to ]
On 28/03/2021 20:21, James Abernathy wrote:
> Several things.  I did a factory reset on my Shield TV and started
> reinstalling only what I needed and then set the Quick Settings to ave
> the Match Framefate (Beta) option as the top setting. So now if I'm
> doing Netflix, I can set the European content to the correct Framerate.
> It sometimes takes multiple tries.
>
> Second, I installed Kodi 19.1 on the Shield TV and got the Netflix and
> Prime Video working because Kodi can match the famerate correctly
> automatically. That's a good solution as well if you like Kodi.  And of
> course, Mythtv addon works great on Kodi.

I hadn't realised there was a Netflix plugin for Kodi. I will give that
a try, thanks. Although the splitter should fix my problem for Leanfront
and Amazon Prime, it alone wont fix Netflix.

> 3rd I ordered another FireTV 4K and it should arrive tomorrow.  That
> should solve all my problems based on what my wife's TV does.  Hopefully
> no issues on a UHD TV.
>
> I'm going to get her to hide the Shield TV where I can't find it before
> I run over it with my Car to put it out of its misery.

I know that feeling well.
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Re: Stupid Fire Stick Match Frame Rate feature [ In reply to ]
On 27/03/2021 19:55, Peter Bennett wrote:
>
> Another option may be to use a splitter to pass the
> hdmi to the tv and the audio system.

That did it. With the Firestick connected to my TV via an audio
extractor, rather via my AV received, the match-original-frame-rate
feature works perfectly, without any of the fiddling around that was
previously required each time I turned everything on. Also the AV
received is reporting that it is receiving dolby digital and I can
hear the surround sound effects.

Thanks for that great suggestion. I've been struggling with this problem
for what may be years now. It's great to have it fixed at last.

Now, all I need is for Netflix to take supplying a video service
seriously and fix their app. :-)

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Re: Stupid Fire Stick Match Frame Rate feature [ In reply to ]
On 3/30/21 6:53 AM, Paul Gardiner wrote:
> On 27/03/2021 19:55, Peter Bennett wrote:
>>
>> Another option may be to use a splitter to pass the hdmi to the tv
>> and the audio system.
>
> That did it. With the Firestick connected to my TV via an audio
> extractor, rather via my AV received, the match-original-frame-rate
> feature works perfectly, without any of the fiddling around that was
> previously required each time I turned everything on. Also the AV
> received is reporting that it is receiving dolby digital and I can
> hear the surround sound effects.
>
> Thanks for that great suggestion. I've been struggling with this
> problem for what may be years now. It's great to have it fixed at last.
>
> Now, all I need is for Netflix to take supplying a video service
> seriously and fix their app. :-)
>
Let me compare what you are seeing with Netflix. I've made several
updates to our TV viewing setup.

1. I tried a new FireTV 4K stick instead of a Shield TV on the Den TV.

2. I upgraded the bedroom Sony with FireTV 4K to a New Samsung UHD with
same FireTV 4K.

FireTV can adjust Matching Framerate fine on Amazon Prime Video and
reports it, but Netflix does NOT.

So I back to having Framerate issues regardless of FireTV or Shield TV.

So my current solution is to use Nvidia Shield TV since it works better
on mythfrontend than FireTV. Leanfront is really good on both.

I'm relegated to using the Samsung TV apps for Netflix and Prime Video.
I called Netflix about the matching framerate issue with their app on
FireTV and they just said to call Amazon.

Jim A


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Re: Stupid Fire Stick Match Frame Rate feature [ In reply to ]
On 30/03/2021 12:06, Jim Abernathy wrote:
>
> On 3/30/21 6:53 AM, Paul Gardiner wrote:
>> On 27/03/2021 19:55, Peter Bennett wrote:
>>>
>>> Another option may be to use a splitter to pass the hdmi to the tv
>>> and the audio system.
>>
>> That did it. With the Firestick connected to my TV via an audio
>> extractor, rather via my AV received, the match-original-frame-rate
>> feature works perfectly, without any of the fiddling around that was
>> previously required each time I turned everything on. Also the AV
>> received is reporting that it is receiving dolby digital and I can
>> hear the surround sound effects.
>>
>> Thanks for that great suggestion. I've been struggling with this
>> problem for what may be years now. It's great to have it fixed at last.
>>
>> Now, all I need is for Netflix to take supplying a video service
>> seriously and fix their app. :-)
>>
> Let me compare what you are seeing with Netflix. I've made several
> updates to our TV viewing setup.
>
> 1. I tried a new FireTV 4K stick instead of a Shield TV on the Den TV.
>
> 2. I upgraded the bedroom Sony with FireTV 4K to a New Samsung UHD with
> same FireTV 4K.
>
> FireTV can adjust Matching Framerate fine on Amazon Prime Video and
> reports it, but Netflix does NOT.
>
> So I back to having Framerate issues regardless of FireTV or Shield TV.
>
> So my current solution is to use Nvidia Shield TV since it works better
> on mythfrontend than FireTV. Leanfront is really good on both.
>
> I'm relegated to using the Samsung TV apps for Netflix and Prime Video.
> I called Netflix about the matching framerate issue with their app on
> FireTV and they just said to call Amazon.

Yes, that fits exactly with my experiences, including the response from
Netflix. There doesn't seem to be a way to talk to or get a message to
someone within the company that would recognise that there is a problem
and it isn't Amazon's fault. Still, the Kodi plugin may be a workaround.
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Re: Stupid Fire Stick Match Frame Rate feature [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 8:27 AM Paul Gardiner <lists@glidos.net> wrote:

>
> > On 3/30/21 6:53 AM, Paul Gardiner wrote:
>
> Yes, that fits exactly with my experiences, including the response from
> Netflix. There doesn't seem to be a way to talk to or get a message to
> someone within the company that would recognise that there is a problem
> and it isn't Amazon's fault. Still, the Kodi plugin may be a workaround.
>

Well, even though I'm not a huge Kodi fan, it is the only software that can
play Mythtv, Netflix, and Prime Video content correctly on a Nividia Shield
TV. I'll test Kodi out today on a FireTV 4K stick and see how it does.

Jim A
Re: Stupid Fire Stick Match Frame Rate feature [ In reply to ]
On 30/03/2021 14:16, James Abernathy wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 8:27 AM Paul Gardiner <lists@glidos.net
> <mailto:lists@glidos.net>> wrote:
>
>
> > On 3/30/21 6:53 AM, Paul Gardiner wrote:
>
> Yes, that fits exactly with my experiences, including the response
> from
> Netflix. There doesn't seem to be a way to talk to or get a
> message to
> someone within the company that would recognise that there is a
> problem
> and it isn't Amazon's fault. Still, the Kodi plugin may be a
> workaround.
>
>
> Well, even though I'm not a huge Kodi fan, it is the only software
> that can play Mythtv, Netflix, and Prime Video content correctly on a
> Nividia Shield TV.  I'll test Kodi out today on a FireTV 4K stick and
> see how it does.
>
> Jim A
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org

Which Kodi plugins did you use for Netflix and Prime Video on Shield TV?

When I had a quick look there seemed to be several options?
Re: Stupid Fire Stick Match Frame Rate feature [ In reply to ]
On 3/31/21 4:38 AM, John wrote:
> On 30/03/2021 14:16, James Abernathy wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 8:27 AM Paul Gardiner <lists@glidos.net
>> <mailto:lists@glidos.net>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> > On 3/30/21 6:53 AM, Paul Gardiner wrote:
>>
>> Yes, that fits exactly with my experiences, including the
>> response from
>> Netflix. There doesn't seem to be a way to talk to or get a
>> message to
>> someone within the company that would recognise that there is a
>> problem
>> and it isn't Amazon's fault. Still, the Kodi plugin may be a
>> workaround.
>>
>>
>> Well, even though I'm not a huge Kodi fan, it is the only software
>> that can play Mythtv, Netflix, and Prime Video content correctly on a
>> Nividia Shield TV.  I'll test Kodi out today on a FireTV 4K stick and
>> see how it does.
>>
>> Jim A
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> MythTV Forums:https://forum.mythtv.org
>
> Which Kodi plugins did you use for Netflix and Prime Video on Shield TV?
>
> When I had a quick look there seemed to be several options?
>
I tried the ones in this thread
https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=361747&pid=3026759#pid3026759

Depending what day you install. Kodi version 19.0 or 18.9 works or
doesn't work.

Jim A
Re: Stupid Fire Stick Match Frame Rate feature [ In reply to ]
On 31/03/2021 10:38, Jim Abernathy wrote:
>
> On 3/31/21 4:38 AM, John wrote:
>> On 30/03/2021 14:16, James Abernathy wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 8:27 AM Paul Gardiner <lists@glidos.net
>>> <mailto:lists@glidos.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> > On 3/30/21 6:53 AM, Paul Gardiner wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes, that fits exactly with my experiences, including the
>>> response from
>>> Netflix. There doesn't seem to be a way to talk to or get a
>>> message to
>>> someone within the company that would recognise that there is a
>>> problem
>>> and it isn't Amazon's fault. Still, the Kodi plugin may be a
>>> workaround.
>>>
>>>
>>> Well, even though I'm not a huge Kodi fan, it is the only software
>>> that can play Mythtv, Netflix, and Prime Video content correctly on a
>>> Nividia Shield TV.  I'll test Kodi out today on a FireTV 4K stick and
>>> see how it does.
>>>
>>> Jim A
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> mythtv-users mailing list
>>> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
>>> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>>> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
>>> MythTV Forums:https://forum.mythtv.org
>>
>> Which Kodi plugins did you use for Netflix and Prime Video on Shield TV?
>>
>> When I had a quick look there seemed to be several options?
>>
> I tried the ones in this thread
> https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=361747&pid=3026759#pid3026759
>
> Depending what day you install. Kodi version 19.0 or 18.9 works or
> doesn't work.

Well worth a try, but doesn't seem to be working well for me. It does
correctly trigger a frame-rate change, but still gives lumpy playback,
in a way that suggests the video player is struggling to keep up. Maybe
there's a setting that can improve it, but I haven't found it so far.
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Re: Stupid Fire Stick Match Frame Rate feature [ In reply to ]
On 3/31/21 6:10 AM, Paul Gardiner wrote:
> On 31/03/2021 10:38, Jim Abernathy wrote:
>>
>> On 3/31/21 4:38 AM, John wrote:
>>> On 30/03/2021 14:16, James Abernathy wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 8:27 AM Paul Gardiner <lists@glidos.net
>>>> <mailto:lists@glidos.net>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     > On 3/30/21 6:53 AM, Paul Gardiner wrote:
>>>>
>>>>     Yes, that fits exactly with my experiences, including the
>>>>     response from
>>>>     Netflix. There doesn't seem to be a way to talk to or get a
>>>>     message to
>>>>     someone within the company that would recognise that there is a
>>>>     problem
>>>>     and it isn't Amazon's fault. Still, the Kodi plugin may be a
>>>>     workaround.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, even though I'm not a huge Kodi fan, it is the only software
>>>> that can play Mythtv, Netflix, and Prime Video content correctly on
>>>> a Nividia Shield TV.  I'll test Kodi out today on a FireTV 4K stick
>>>> and see how it does.
>>>>
>>>> Jim A
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> mythtv-users mailing list
>>>> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
>>>> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>>>> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
>>>> MythTV Forums:https://forum.mythtv.org
>>>
>>> Which Kodi plugins did you use for Netflix and Prime Video on Shield
>>> TV?
>>>
>>> When I had a quick look there seemed to be several options?
>>>
>> I tried the ones in this thread
>> https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=361747&pid=3026759#pid3026759
>>
>> Depending what day you install. Kodi version 19.0 or 18.9 works or
>> doesn't work.
>
> Well worth a try, but doesn't seem to be working well for me. It does
> correctly trigger a frame-rate change, but still gives lumpy playback,
> in a way that suggests the video player is struggling to keep up.
> Maybe there's a setting that can improve it, but I haven't found it so
> far.
>

Are you using FireTV stick?  I'm testing on Nvidia Shield TV (2017). I
tried playing with my new FireTV 4K stick yesterday and was disappointed
in it's performance on Mythfrontend, SlingTV and by then I switched back
to Shield TV. I have not tried Kodi/Netflix on FireTV yet.

I think I'm going to end up with no integrated solution for all my
streaming and OTA TV.

1. OTA TV

    a). Recorded OTA from mythtv-backend.

        -- Either mythtv-frontend or Leanfront work great on Nvidia Shield

        -- Leanfront works great on FireTV 4K, but mythfront has issues
on FireTV 4K.

    b). Live TV without recording for quick of weather/news - Samsung
TV built-in tuner

2. Netflix, SlingTV, or Prime Video - Samsung TV apps have no quality or
frame rate matching issues.


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Re: Stupid Fire Stick Match Frame Rate feature [ In reply to ]
On 31/03/2021 11:27, Jim Abernathy wrote:
>
> On 3/31/21 6:10 AM, Paul Gardiner wrote:
>> On 31/03/2021 10:38, Jim Abernathy wrote:
>>>
>>> On 3/31/21 4:38 AM, John wrote:
>>>> On 30/03/2021 14:16, James Abernathy wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 8:27 AM Paul Gardiner <lists@glidos.net
>>>>> <mailto:lists@glidos.net>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     > On 3/30/21 6:53 AM, Paul Gardiner wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>     Yes, that fits exactly with my experiences, including the
>>>>>     response from
>>>>>     Netflix. There doesn't seem to be a way to talk to or get a
>>>>>     message to
>>>>>     someone within the company that would recognise that there is a
>>>>>     problem
>>>>>     and it isn't Amazon's fault. Still, the Kodi plugin may be a
>>>>>     workaround.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, even though I'm not a huge Kodi fan, it is the only software
>>>>> that can play Mythtv, Netflix, and Prime Video content correctly on
>>>>> a Nividia Shield TV.  I'll test Kodi out today on a FireTV 4K stick
>>>>> and see how it does.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim A
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> mythtv-users mailing list
>>>>> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
>>>>> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>>>>> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
>>>>> MythTV Forums:https://forum.mythtv.org
>>>>
>>>> Which Kodi plugins did you use for Netflix and Prime Video on Shield
>>>> TV?
>>>>
>>>> When I had a quick look there seemed to be several options?
>>>>
>>> I tried the ones in this thread
>>> https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=361747&pid=3026759#pid3026759
>>>
>>> Depending what day you install. Kodi version 19.0 or 18.9 works or
>>> doesn't work.
>>
>> Well worth a try, but doesn't seem to be working well for me. It does
>> correctly trigger a frame-rate change, but still gives lumpy playback,
>> in a way that suggests the video player is struggling to keep up.
>> Maybe there's a setting that can improve it, but I haven't found it so
>> far.
>>
>
> Are you using FireTV stick?  I'm testing on Nvidia Shield TV (2017). I
> tried playing with my new FireTV 4K stick yesterday and was disappointed
> in it's performance on Mythfrontend, SlingTV and by then I switched back
> to Shield TV. I have not tried Kodi/Netflix on FireTV yet.

Yes, on a newish FireTV 4K stick. I haven't tried Mythfrontend, but
Leanfront performance is excellent. Everything I've played via it has
been perfectly smooth (now that I have frame rate matching working, that
is). My remaining problems are with Netflix and iPlayer, although I use
the latter infrequently - only for programs I fail to record. The
problems with those two apps are only that they don't automatically
switch. They work fine if I correctly guess the frame rate and set it
manually (albeit that being via the hidden menu if I want 24fps).
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