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Hauppauge WinTV-quadHD question
I'm building a replacement backend server and I'm looking to replace my
Hauppauge Nova-TD-500 (DVB-T) with a Hauppauge WinTV-quadHD (DVB-T2).
I'm a little confused.   The Nova-TD-500 has two connectors and can
record from 2 MUX's at once.  Can the WinTV-quadHD record from 4 MUX's
at once with just a single connector?
I'm UK based.

Gavin


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Re: Hauppauge WinTV-quadHD question [ In reply to ]
On 8/21/20 4:19 AM, Gavin Whitehead wrote:
>
> I'm building a replacement backend server and I'm looking to replace
> my Hauppauge Nova-TD-500 (DVB-T) with a Hauppauge WinTV-quadHD (DVB-T2).
> I'm a little confused.   The Nova-TD-500 has two connectors and can
> record from 2 MUX's at once.  Can the WinTV-quadHD record from 4 MUX's
> at once with just a single connector?
> I'm UK based.
>
> Gavin
>
I have the Hauppauge WinTV-QuadHD (ATSC OTA) USA version and it only has
the one F-connector for all 4 inputs.  It seems to use new drivers that
are not in the latest kernels so you better consult their Linux support
page (https://hauppauge.com/pages/support/support_linux.html)

Jim A


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Re: Hauppauge WinTV-quadHD question [ In reply to ]
On Fri, 21 Aug 2020 09:19:35 +0100, you wrote:

>I'm building a replacement backend server and I'm looking to replace my
>Hauppauge Nova-TD-500 (DVB-T) with a Hauppauge WinTV-quadHD (DVB-T2).
>I'm a little confused.?? The Nova-TD-500 has two connectors and can
>record from 2 MUX's at once.? Can the WinTV-quadHD record from 4 MUX's
>at once with just a single connector?
>I'm UK based.
>
>Gavin

Technology has moved on since the TD-500s. They actually have two
aerial inputs but if you connect to the correct input (the lower one),
it is split and fed to both tuners (at half the signal level). If you
connect both aerial inputs, they have a "diversity" function, which
may only work with the Windows drivers as I have seen nothing about it
with the Linux drivers. On the TD-500 card there is a USB hub
connecting the two USB tuners to the PCI bus. They are fairly
standard Hauppauge USB DVB-T tuners.

We have two of these cards and just having upgraded my mother's MythTV
box to a new PCIe only motherboard, I have now got them in an external
PCIe to two slot PCI adapter out the back of her PC. If you want to
keep on using yours, you might consider doing the same. I am using
one of these adapters that I bought from a local auction site rather
than wait months for Aliexpress. They should be available in the UK
too:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32975912171.html

I have put photos of my setup on my web server if you are interested:

http://www.jsw.gen.nz/mythtv/TD-500_20200821_211624.jpg
http://www.jsw.gen.nz/mythtv/TD-500_20200821_211636.jpg

I still need to get a longer power cable and USB cable to move them
around the side of the PC where they will be out of the way. Since
PCIe is a self clocking serial signal, there is no problem with having
it extended for long distances over a cable, unlike PCI signals. It
just happens that a USB 3 cable is right for that job, so that is what
is used on adapters like this. So if you wanted to, you could put a
much longer USB 3 cable on and have the tuners metres away from the
PC. If there is the right sort of space inside your PC case, you may
be able to mount the PCIe to PCI adapter internally. Alternatively,
you can get PCIe x1 to PCI adapters that go in the standard PCIe x1
slot and allow a low profile PCI card to be mounted directly on top of
them in the PCIe x1 slot. Since the TD-500s are supplied with a low
profile bracket as well as the full height one, you could consider
that option. It does use up two PCIe slots though, compared to using
the above adapter with puts both PCI cards on one PCIe x1 slot.

The chips in the WinTV-quadHD will be the new sort that have a low
noise amplifier/splitter frontend. They have one aerial input which
goes to an amplifier then to a splitter and then to each tuner. Since
there are four tuners, the amplifier makes the signal four times as
large so that when it is split four ways, each tuner gets the same
signal level as the original signal at the aerial input. Since it is
a low noise amplifier, there is not much quality loss in the
amplifier/splitter and the quality at each tuner is only a little less
than at the aerial input. I have two TBS cards (one DVT-T2 and one
DVB-S2) that have 8 tuners each and work like this, with only one
aerial input needed. They both work very well.
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Re: Hauppauge WinTV-quadHD question [ In reply to ]
On 21/08/2020 09:50, Jim Abernathy wrote:
>
> On 8/21/20 4:19 AM, Gavin Whitehead wrote:
>>
>> I'm building a replacement backend server and I'm looking to replace
>> my Hauppauge Nova-TD-500 (DVB-T) with a Hauppauge WinTV-quadHD (DVB-T2).
>> I'm a little confused.   The Nova-TD-500 has two connectors and can
>> record from 2 MUX's at once.  Can the WinTV-quadHD record from 4
>> MUX's at once with just a single connector?
>> I'm UK based.
>>
>> Gavin
>>
> I have the Hauppauge WinTV-QuadHD (ATSC OTA) USA version and it only
> has the one F-connector for all 4 inputs.  It seems to use new drivers
> that are not in the latest kernels so you better consult their Linux
> support page (https://hauppauge.com/pages/support/support_linux.html)
>
> Jim A
>

I am based in UK.

Yes, WinTV-quadHD can and does record from 4 MUX's at once with the
single input connector. Additionally, multiple channels from the same
MUX can be recorded at the same time (known as multi-rec in mythtv)

My mythtv-server is running under Xubuntu 18.04 with stock kernel
5.4.0-42-generic , which has most of the hauppauge ppa changes included.


You can also use the hauppauge ppa mentioned above. In both cases
additional firmware is required.

My QuadHD card is (dmesg|grep -i haup)

[    3.545836] cx23885: CORE cx23885[0]: subsystem: 0070:6a28, board:
Hauppauge WinTV-QuadHD-DVB(885) [card=60,autodetected]
[    3.897883] tveeprom: Hauppauge model 166200, rev B4I6, serial#
4035973424
[    3.897888] cx23885: cx23885[0]: hauppauge eeprom: model=166200
[    3.946416] cx23885: CORE cx23885[1]: subsystem: 0070:6b28, board:
Hauppauge WinTV-QuadHD-DVB(885) [card=60,autodetected]
[    4.296805] tveeprom: Hauppauge model 166201, rev B4I6, serial#
4035973424
[    4.296810] cx23885: cx23885[1]: hauppauge eeprom: model=166201

Mike

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Re: Hauppauge WinTV-quadHD question [ In reply to ]
On 21/08/2020 11:11, Mike Bibbings wrote:
> On 21/08/2020 09:50, Jim Abernathy wrote:
>>
>> On 8/21/20 4:19 AM, Gavin Whitehead wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm building a replacement backend server and I'm looking to replace
>>> my Hauppauge Nova-TD-500 (DVB-T) with a Hauppauge WinTV-quadHD
>>> (DVB-T2).
>>> I'm a little confused.   The Nova-TD-500 has two connectors and can
>>> record from 2 MUX's at once.  Can the WinTV-quadHD record from 4
>>> MUX's at once with just a single connector?
>>> I'm UK based.
>>>
>>> Gavin
>>>
>> I have the Hauppauge WinTV-QuadHD (ATSC OTA) USA version and it only
>> has the one F-connector for all 4 inputs.  It seems to use new
>> drivers that are not in the latest kernels so you better consult
>> their Linux support page
>> (https://hauppauge.com/pages/support/support_linux.html)
>>
>> Jim A
>>
>
> I am based in UK.
>
> Yes, WinTV-quadHD can and does record from 4 MUX's at once with the
> single input connector. Additionally, multiple channels from the same
> MUX can be recorded at the same time (known as multi-rec in mythtv)
>
> My mythtv-server is running under Xubuntu 18.04 with stock kernel
> 5.4.0-42-generic , which has most of the hauppauge ppa changes included.
>
>
> You can also use the hauppauge ppa mentioned above. In both cases
> additional firmware is required.
>
> My QuadHD card is (dmesg|grep -i haup)
>
> [    3.545836] cx23885: CORE cx23885[0]: subsystem: 0070:6a28, board:
> Hauppauge WinTV-QuadHD-DVB(885) [card=60,autodetected]
> [    3.897883] tveeprom: Hauppauge model 166200, rev B4I6, serial#
> 4035973424
> [    3.897888] cx23885: cx23885[0]: hauppauge eeprom: model=166200
> [    3.946416] cx23885: CORE cx23885[1]: subsystem: 0070:6b28, board:
> Hauppauge WinTV-QuadHD-DVB(885) [card=60,autodetected]
> [    4.296805] tveeprom: Hauppauge model 166201, rev B4I6, serial#
> 4035973424
> [    4.296810] cx23885: cx23885[1]: hauppauge eeprom: model=166201
>
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
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> MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org

Mike,

Thanks for the info; it's just what I wanted to hear.  I shall go ahead
and source a WinTV-quadHD.

Gavin

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Re: Hauppauge WinTV-quadHD question [ In reply to ]
On 21/08/2020 11:03, Stephen Worthington wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Aug 2020 09:19:35 +0100, you wrote:
>
>> I'm building a replacement backend server and I'm looking to replace my
>> Hauppauge Nova-TD-500 (DVB-T) with a Hauppauge WinTV-quadHD (DVB-T2).
>> I'm a little confused.   The Nova-TD-500 has two connectors and can
>> record from 2 MUX's at once.  Can the WinTV-quadHD record from 4 MUX's
>> at once with just a single connector?
>> I'm UK based.
>>
>> Gavin
> Technology has moved on since the TD-500s. They actually have two
> aerial inputs but if you connect to the correct input (the lower one),
> it is split and fed to both tuners (at half the signal level). If you
> connect both aerial inputs, they have a "diversity" function, which
> may only work with the Windows drivers as I have seen nothing about it
> with the Linux drivers. On the TD-500 card there is a USB hub
> connecting the two USB tuners to the PCI bus. They are fairly
> standard Hauppauge USB DVB-T tuners.
>
> We have two of these cards and just having upgraded my mother's MythTV
> box to a new PCIe only motherboard, I have now got them in an external
> PCIe to two slot PCI adapter out the back of her PC. If you want to
> keep on using yours, you might consider doing the same. I am using
> one of these adapters that I bought from a local auction site rather
> than wait months for Aliexpress. They should be available in the UK
> too:
>
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32975912171.html
>
> I have put photos of my setup on my web server if you are interested:
>
> http://www.jsw.gen.nz/mythtv/TD-500_20200821_211624.jpg
> http://www.jsw.gen.nz/mythtv/TD-500_20200821_211636.jpg
>
> I still need to get a longer power cable and USB cable to move them
> around the side of the PC where they will be out of the way. Since
> PCIe is a self clocking serial signal, there is no problem with having
> it extended for long distances over a cable, unlike PCI signals. It
> just happens that a USB 3 cable is right for that job, so that is what
> is used on adapters like this. So if you wanted to, you could put a
> much longer USB 3 cable on and have the tuners metres away from the
> PC. If there is the right sort of space inside your PC case, you may
> be able to mount the PCIe to PCI adapter internally. Alternatively,
> you can get PCIe x1 to PCI adapters that go in the standard PCIe x1
> slot and allow a low profile PCI card to be mounted directly on top of
> them in the PCIe x1 slot. Since the TD-500s are supplied with a low
> profile bracket as well as the full height one, you could consider
> that option. It does use up two PCIe slots though, compared to using
> the above adapter with puts both PCI cards on one PCIe x1 slot.
>
> The chips in the WinTV-quadHD will be the new sort that have a low
> noise amplifier/splitter frontend. They have one aerial input which
> goes to an amplifier then to a splitter and then to each tuner. Since
> there are four tuners, the amplifier makes the signal four times as
> large so that when it is split four ways, each tuner gets the same
> signal level as the original signal at the aerial input. Since it is
> a low noise amplifier, there is not much quality loss in the
> amplifier/splitter and the quality at each tuner is only a little less
> than at the aerial input. I have two TBS cards (one DVT-T2 and one
> DVB-S2) that have 8 tuners each and work like this, with only one
> aerial input needed. They both work very well.
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
> MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org

Stephen,

Thanks for all the details.  I think I now understand a little better
how these cards work.

I am going to replace my TD-500 as it, like most of the hardware in my
combined BE/FE, is 10-12 years old  and following a series of quite
intense meetings of the "WAF Budgetary Committee" I now have sign of on
the funds to build new separate BE and FE systems.

Thanks again,

Gavin

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Re: Hauppauge WinTV-quadHD question [ In reply to ]
On 8/21/20 6:11 AM, Mike Bibbings wrote:
> On 21/08/2020 09:50, Jim Abernathy wrote:
>>
>> On 8/21/20 4:19 AM, Gavin Whitehead wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm building a replacement backend server and I'm looking to replace
>>> my Hauppauge Nova-TD-500 (DVB-T) with a Hauppauge WinTV-quadHD
>>> (DVB-T2).
>>> I'm a little confused.   The Nova-TD-500 has two connectors and can
>>> record from 2 MUX's at once.  Can the WinTV-quadHD record from 4
>>> MUX's at once with just a single connector?
>>> I'm UK based.
>>>
>>> Gavin
>>>
>> I have the Hauppauge WinTV-QuadHD (ATSC OTA) USA version and it only
>> has the one F-connector for all 4 inputs.  It seems to use new
>> drivers that are not in the latest kernels so you better consult
>> their Linux support page
>> (https://hauppauge.com/pages/support/support_linux.html)
>>
>> Jim A
>>
>
> I am based in UK.
>
> Yes, WinTV-quadHD can and does record from 4 MUX's at once with the
> single input connector. Additionally, multiple channels from the same
> MUX can be recorded at the same time (known as multi-rec in mythtv)
>
> My mythtv-server is running under Xubuntu 18.04 with stock kernel
> 5.4.0-42-generic , which has most of the hauppauge ppa changes included.
>
>
> You can also use the hauppauge ppa mentioned above. In both cases
> additional firmware is required.
>
> My QuadHD card is (dmesg|grep -i haup)
>
> [    3.545836] cx23885: CORE cx23885[0]: subsystem: 0070:6a28, board:
> Hauppauge WinTV-QuadHD-DVB(885) [card=60,autodetected]
> [    3.897883] tveeprom: Hauppauge model 166200, rev B4I6, serial#
> 4035973424
> [    3.897888] cx23885: cx23885[0]: hauppauge eeprom: model=166200
> [    3.946416] cx23885: CORE cx23885[1]: subsystem: 0070:6b28, board:
> Hauppauge WinTV-QuadHD-DVB(885) [card=60,autodetected]
> [    4.296805] tveeprom: Hauppauge model 166201, rev B4I6, serial#
> 4035973424
> [    4.296810] cx23885: cx23885[1]: hauppauge eeprom: model=166201
>
> Mike

Mike, Not to derail the original question, but I'm wondering about the
stock kernel support for the WinTV-quadHD.  I've never tried it even
though I'm on ubuntu 20.04. Always used the Hauppauge kernel mods. I
don't see many fixes, but some are modulator updates. So not knowing any
better I just use their kernel. I'm always concerned when I do that
because Ubuntu boot log tries to scare you about your choice of kernels.
Also It seems that I don't need the firmware because of the USA version
of the card does not require it for some reason.

Jim A


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Re: Hauppauge WinTV-quadHD question [ In reply to ]
On 21/08/2020 12:11, Jim Abernathy wrote:
>
> On 8/21/20 6:11 AM, Mike Bibbings wrote:
>> On 21/08/2020 09:50, Jim Abernathy wrote:
>>>
>>> On 8/21/20 4:19 AM, Gavin Whitehead wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm building a replacement backend server and I'm looking to
>>>> replace my Hauppauge Nova-TD-500 (DVB-T) with a Hauppauge
>>>> WinTV-quadHD (DVB-T2).
>>>> I'm a little confused.   The Nova-TD-500 has two connectors and can
>>>> record from 2 MUX's at once.  Can the WinTV-quadHD record from 4
>>>> MUX's at once with just a single connector?
>>>> I'm UK based.
>>>>
>>>> Gavin
>>>>
>>> I have the Hauppauge WinTV-QuadHD (ATSC OTA) USA version and it only
>>> has the one F-connector for all 4 inputs.  It seems to use new
>>> drivers that are not in the latest kernels so you better consult
>>> their Linux support page
>>> (https://hauppauge.com/pages/support/support_linux.html)
>>>
>>> Jim A
>>>
>>
>> I am based in UK.
>>
>> Yes, WinTV-quadHD can and does record from 4 MUX's at once with the
>> single input connector. Additionally, multiple channels from the same
>> MUX can be recorded at the same time (known as multi-rec in mythtv)
>>
>> My mythtv-server is running under Xubuntu 18.04 with stock kernel
>> 5.4.0-42-generic , which has most of the hauppauge ppa changes included.
>>
>>
>> You can also use the hauppauge ppa mentioned above. In both cases
>> additional firmware is required.
>>
>> My QuadHD card is (dmesg|grep -i haup)
>>
>> [    3.545836] cx23885: CORE cx23885[0]: subsystem: 0070:6a28, board:
>> Hauppauge WinTV-QuadHD-DVB(885) [card=60,autodetected]
>> [    3.897883] tveeprom: Hauppauge model 166200, rev B4I6, serial#
>> 4035973424
>> [    3.897888] cx23885: cx23885[0]: hauppauge eeprom: model=166200
>> [    3.946416] cx23885: CORE cx23885[1]: subsystem: 0070:6b28, board:
>> Hauppauge WinTV-QuadHD-DVB(885) [card=60,autodetected]
>> [    4.296805] tveeprom: Hauppauge model 166201, rev B4I6, serial#
>> 4035973424
>> [    4.296810] cx23885: cx23885[1]: hauppauge eeprom: model=166201
>>
>> Mike
>
> Mike, Not to derail the original question, but I'm wondering about the
> stock kernel support for the WinTV-quadHD.  I've never tried it even
> though I'm on ubuntu 20.04. Always used the Hauppauge kernel mods. I
> don't see many fixes, but some are modulator updates. So not knowing
> any better I just use their kernel. I'm always concerned when I do
> that because Ubuntu boot log tries to scare you about your choice of
> kernels. Also It seems that I don't need the firmware because of the
> USA version of the card does not require it for some reason.
>
> Jim A


Jim,

I have also used the hauppage kernel ppa in the past, but hauppauge have
done a pretty good job at getting most of their changes into the V4L
subsystem used in later kernels (I wish other suppliers e.g. TBS did this).

When I upgraded from Xubuntu 16.04  to Xubuntu 18.04 (via clean install,
not in-place upgrade)  and found my QuadHD card worked with mythtv, I
just kept the Ubuntu kernel.

The main advantage of the happauge ppa is that it is kept up to date
with changes that hauppauge may make to their product lines e.g. new
demod chip will get support much earlier than in Ubuntu.

You are correct in that the firmware is not needed to the USA version
(atsc) of the card.


Mike


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Re: Hauppauge WinTV-quadHD question [ In reply to ]
On Sat, Aug 22, 2020 at 10:19 AM Mike Bibbings <mike.bibbings@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
> Jim,
>
> I have also used the hauppage kernel ppa in the past, but hauppauge have
> done a pretty good job at getting most of their changes into the V4L
> subsystem used in later kernels (I wish other suppliers e.g. TBS did this).
>
> When I upgraded from Xubuntu 16.04 to Xubuntu 18.04 (via clean install,
> not in-place upgrade) and found my QuadHD card worked with mythtv, I
> just kept the Ubuntu kernel.
>
> The main advantage of the happauge ppa is that it is kept up to date
> with changes that hauppauge may make to their product lines e.g. new
> demod chip will get support much earlier than in Ubuntu.
>
> You are correct in that the firmware is not needed to the USA version
> (atsc) of the card.
>
>
> Mike
>
>
> Mike,

Since my QuadHD is from a 2019-02-19 order I did, I'm guessing it's old
enough to work with the latest Ubuntu 20.04.1 kernel 5.4.0. I'll try
picking the default Ubuntu kernel at boot and see.

If that works, I hope just uninstalling the Hauppauge stuff will go
smoothly.

Jim A