Mailing List Archive

The historical roots of our computer terms
Food for thought from the co-author of OAuth and oEmbed. How easy would it
be for MythTV menus and docs to refer to primary and secondary backends for
example?

Leah Culver (@leahculver) tweeted at 11:32 PM on Fri, Jun 05, 2020:
I refuse to use “whitelist”/“blacklist” or “master”/“slave” terminology for
computers. Join me. Words matter.
(https://twitter.com/leahculver/status/1269109776983547904?s=03)
Re: The historical roots of our computer terms [ In reply to ]
Amen. (as long as that's politically correct) ;-)



Peter Jacobs
Wisconsin



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On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 7:43 AM Ian Evans <dheianevans@gmail.com> wrote:

> Food for thought from the co-author of OAuth and oEmbed. How easy would it
> be for MythTV menus and docs to refer to primary and secondary backends for
> example?
>
> Leah Culver (@leahculver) tweeted at 11:32 PM on Fri, Jun 05, 2020:
> I refuse to use “whitelist”/“blacklist” or “master”/“slave” terminology
> for computers. Join me. Words matter.
> (https://twitter.com/leahculver/status/1269109776983547904?s=03)
>
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>
Re: The historical roots of our computer terms [ In reply to ]
On 2020-06-06 13:41, Ian Evans wrote:

> Food for thought from the co-author of OAuth and oEmbed. How easy would it be for MythTV menus and docs to refer to primary and secondary backends for example?
>
> Leah Culver (@leahculver) tweeted at 11:32 PM on Fri, Jun 05, 2020:
> I refuse to use "whitelist"/"blacklist" or "master"/"slave" terminology for computers. Join me. Words matter.
> (https://twitter.com/leahculver/status/1269109776983547904?s=03)

Agree with the whielist/blacklist removal but master slave isn't a race
thing with me. My ancient ancestors were probably slaves to the Romans
and my animals are definiteley my slaves.

Regards,
Tim.
Re: The historical roots of our computer terms [ In reply to ]
It's a stupid tweet, and I will not comply.

Calvin

On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 7:42 AM Ian Evans <dheianevans@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Food for thought from the co-author of OAuth and oEmbed. How easy would it be for MythTV menus and docs to refer to primary and secondary backends for example?
>
> Leah Culver (@leahculver) tweeted at 11:32 PM on Fri, Jun 05, 2020:
> I refuse to use “whitelist”/“blacklist” or “master”/“slave” terminology for computers. Join me. Words matter.
> (https://twitter.com/leahculver/status/1269109776983547904?s=03)
>
> _______________________________________________
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> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
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Re: The historical roots of our computer terms [ In reply to ]
Hoi TimP,

Saturday, June 6, 2020, 9:01:33 PM, you wrote:

>


>
> On 2020-06-06 13:41, Ian Evans wrote:
>
>
> Food for thought from the co-author of OAuth and oEmbed. How easy
> would it be for MythTV menus and docs to refer to primary and secondary backends for example?
>
> Leah Culver (@leahculver) tweeted at 11:32 PM on Fri, Jun 05, 2020:
> I refuse to use "whitelist"/"blacklist" or "master"/"slave"
> terminology for computers. Join me. Words matter.
> (https://twitter.com/leahculver/status/1269109776983547904?s=03)
>
>
>
> Agree with the whielist/blacklist removal but master slave isn't a
> race thing with me. My ancient ancestors were probably slaves to the
> Romans and my animals are definiteley my slaves.
>
> Regards,
> Tim.
>

Hoi TimP,

Just as white and black in white/blacklist has nothing tot do with
race. But that is not the issue.
It is that by present day association it can be felt as hurtful by
some, not the original meaning.
Within the original meaning this is a nonsense discussion, but in the
experienced hurt it is a very real one.
If in such little things you can help people...

In this respect is black Friday much darker as in its original meaning
it was a slave sale!

Tot mails,
Hika mailto:hikavdh@gmail.com

"Zonder hoop kun je niet leven
Zonder leven is er geen hoop
Het eeuwige dilemma
Zeker als je hoop moet vernietigen om te kunnen overleven!"

De lerende Mens

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Re: The historical roots of our computer terms [ In reply to ]
> On Jun 6, 2020, at 12:05 PM, Calvin Dodge <caldodge@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ?It's a stupid tweet, and I will not comply.
>
> Calvin
>
>> On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 7:42 AM Ian Evans <dheianevans@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Food for thought from the co-author of OAuth and oEmbed. How easy would it be for MythTV menus and docs to refer to primary and secondary backends for example?
>>
>> Leah Culver (@leahculver) tweeted at 11:32 PM on Fri, Jun 05, 2020:
>> I refuse to use “whitelist”/“blacklist” or “master”/“slave” terminology for computers. Join me. Words matter.
>> (https://twitter.com/leahculver/status/1269109776983547904?s=03)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mythtv-users mailing list
>> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
>> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
>> MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org
>

Calvin, thank you for being so brave. To have the courage to stand up to someone who has said, “This terminology is hurtful to some, could you consider maybe changing the words you use?” with a resounding, “No, you’re stupid, and I absolutely will never change!” must take such amazing courage. I appreciate you doing your part to keep us all safe from the tyranny of treating people with kindness and respect, sir.
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Re: The historical roots of our computer terms [ In reply to ]
On 07-06-2020 18:13, LsrsuitLry@yahoo.com wrote:
> keep us all safe from the tyranny of treating people with kindness and respect, sir.

Calling a computer slave or master is treating people with kindness and
respect?
Politically correctness goes way too far and leftism (where it comes
from) is a psychological issue:
https://www.vrijspreker.nl/wp/2011/01/top-psychiater-links-denkenden-hebben-psychologische-stoornis/
(see “The Liberal Mind – The Psychological Causes of Political Madness”
by Lyle Rossiter)


Now what about mythtv: is it safe and wise to go from 30 to 31 yet?

Kind regards,
Udo
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Re: The historical roots of our computer terms [ In reply to ]
On Sun, Jun 7, 2020, 12:22 PM Udo van den Heuvel, <udovdh@xs4all.nl> wrote:

> On 07-06-2020 18:13, LsrsuitLry@yahoo.com wrote:
> > keep us all safe from the tyranny of treating people with kindness and
> respect, sir.
>
> Calling a computer slave or master is treating people with kindness and
> respect?
> Politically correctness goes way too far and leftism (where it comes
> from) is a psychological issue:
>
> https://www.vrijspreker.nl/wp/2011/01/top-psychiater-links-denkenden-hebben-psychologische-stoornis/
> (see “The Liberal Mind – The Psychological Causes of Political Madness”
> by Lyle Rossiter)
>
>
> Now what about mythtv: is it safe and wise to go from 30 to 31 yet?
>

Udo,

Thanks for bringing some humour into the thread.

Referencing the writings of one conservative psychiatrist and therefore
presenting "leftism" as an illness being a fact gave me a good chuckle.

As the OP of the thread, I saw a Twitter thread involving several coders
discussing this issue and as MythTV is an open source project I thought it
might be a conversation starter for a Saturday morning. Ultimately it's up
to the Devs, since they're the ones who do the coding.

>
>
Re: The historical roots of our computer terms [ In reply to ]
Hika van den Hoven says:
> Just as white and black in white/blacklist has nothing tot do with
> race. But that is not the issue.

But that is the issue. Why should we kowtow to people who don't understand or don't care about history and etymology?

The vast majority of historical slavery is not whites enslaving blacks, but everyone enslaving everyone (including themselves). As Tim said, Romans took Africans, Germans, and Britons as slaves, and conversely were willing to grant them citizenship if they purchased it or received it from their owners. For centuries Vikings took Britons and other Europeans into slavery and sold them at markets all around Eurasia. When the Dutch were expelled from Taiwan in the 17th century the Taiwanese took remaining European women as slaves. For hundreds of years, into the 19th century, north Africans took both black Africans and white Europeans into slavery and sold them at markets. During World War II Germans used Jews and Japanese used Westerners as sex and/or work slaves.

> Within the original meaning this is a nonsense discussion, but in
> the experienced hurt it is a very real one. If in such little
> things you can help people...

Where do you draw the line? There will always, always be a small group that takes offense at anything and everything. Who gets to decide whom to listen to, and when?

The origin of the word "blacklist" has nothing to do with Africans or slavery, nor "whitelist" with alleged superiority of whites over others.

> In this respect is black Friday much darker as in its original
> meaning it was a slave sale!

"Black Friday" has nothing to do with races or slavery, either; "black" has for centuries in English been an adjective to describe disaster (again, nothing to do with race or slavery)[1]; see the likes of "black Tuesday" to describe stock market crashes. 1950s Philadelphia police described the large shopping crowds on the day after Thanksgiving as "black Friday", in other words a difficult situation. Retailers turned this into a positive description in hopes of attracting customers.

I rhetorically asked earlier "Who gets to decide whom to listen to, and when?" The answer is clear, actually; as Ian said, ultimately it is up to the developers. If they choose to remove master/slave terminology from backends it is up to them. If they choose to call them "George" and "Ralph" it is up to them. Conversely, if they do not make a change they should not be considered, or be denounced, as white supremacists/racists/Nazis.

[1] On the other hand, "in the black" means to be profitable, and the "All Blacks" are New Zealand's beloved athletic teams.

--
Frontend: Apple MacBook Pro 2012, Nvidia Shield 2017
Backend: HP Microserver N40L 1.5GHz with 4x3TB HDDs
Tuners: Two over-the-air ATSC inputs with multirec
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Re: The historical roots of our computer terms [ In reply to ]
First off, I'm wondering about World vs US. As a US citizen and veteran,
I'm perplexed over a need to globally seek redress or something.

I'm still scratching my head on two points.
One, computers are people.
Two and more germane, a stupid statement that's made at least once every
two years gets blathered here on a forum about a specific software
package. Has the entire planet lost its collective populace's minds?!
Sentience is a very real thing, previously, so was commonsense. Alas,
that appears to be an endangered species.
Still, if any loathes master/slave terminology so much, I submit that
I'll consider their point when they take an IDE drive based system and
have two masters or slaves on a single IDE channel.
More likely, given that hardware that obeys the standard would remain
unbootable, the idiocy would be self-limiting.

Now, can we please drop this insanity? Computers aren't sentient, hell,
not even sapient, MythTV has an objection over a database term?
This is precisely why nobody should ever poke baby in the fontanelle!

Can we kindly go back to technical issues, like IR issues, database
issues and issues regarding flatulence?

Otherwise, we're dealing with all databases are corrupt, since there are
no master databases, only masters freed from being slaves.

On 6/7/20 5:22 PM, Yeechang Lee wrote:
> Hika van den Hoven says:
>> Just as white and black in white/blacklist has nothing tot do with
>> race. But that is not the issue.
> But that is the issue. Why should we kowtow to people who don't understand or don't care about history and etymology?
>
> The vast majority of historical slavery is not whites enslaving blacks, but everyone enslaving everyone (including themselves). As Tim said, Romans took Africans, Germans, and Britons as slaves, and conversely were willing to grant them citizenship if they purchased it or received it from their owners. For centuries Vikings took Britons and other Europeans into slavery and sold them at markets all around Eurasia. When the Dutch were expelled from Taiwan in the 17th century the Taiwanese took remaining European women as slaves. For hundreds of years, into the 19th century, north Africans took both black Africans and white Europeans into slavery and sold them at markets. During World War II Germans used Jews and Japanese used Westerners as sex and/or work slaves.
>
>> Within the original meaning this is a nonsense discussion, but in
>> the experienced hurt it is a very real one. If in such little
>> things you can help people...
> Where do you draw the line? There will always, always be a small group that takes offense at anything and everything. Who gets to decide whom to listen to, and when?
>
> The origin of the word "blacklist" has nothing to do with Africans or slavery, nor "whitelist" with alleged superiority of whites over others.
>
>> In this respect is black Friday much darker as in its original
>> meaning it was a slave sale!
> "Black Friday" has nothing to do with races or slavery, either; "black" has for centuries in English been an adjective to describe disaster (again, nothing to do with race or slavery)[1]; see the likes of "black Tuesday" to describe stock market crashes. 1950s Philadelphia police described the large shopping crowds on the day after Thanksgiving as "black Friday", in other words a difficult situation. Retailers turned this into a positive description in hopes of attracting customers.
>
> I rhetorically asked earlier "Who gets to decide whom to listen to, and when?" The answer is clear, actually; as Ian said, ultimately it is up to the developers. If they choose to remove master/slave terminology from backends it is up to them. If they choose to call them "George" and "Ralph" it is up to them. Conversely, if they do not make a change they should not be considered, or be denounced, as white supremacists/racists/Nazis.
>
> [1] On the other hand, "in the black" means to be profitable, and the "All Blacks" are New Zealand's beloved athletic teams.
>
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Re: The historical roots of our computer terms [ In reply to ]
>
> On Jun 7, 2020, at 2:22 PM, Yeechang Lee <ylee@columbia.edu> wrote:
>
> But that is the issue. Why should we kowtow to people who don't understand or don't care about history and etymology?
>
It’s not kowtowing, dude, it’s recognizing that language and context changes things (and sometimes it’s recognizing that the terminology was always bad and shouldn’t have been used in the first place!) The history and etymology of the word “gay” is that it meant happy. But if people misunderstand me today because I refer to anyone I see smiling as “gay”, I’m the one that’s in the wrong, not them for failing to understand etymology. I know change is scary, but I promise it won’t kill you.

> The vast majority of historical slavery is not whites enslaving blacks, but everyone enslaving everyone (including themselves). As Tim said, Romans took Africans, Germans, and Britons as slaves, and conversely were willing to grant them citizenship if they purchased it or received it from their owners.

What point, exactly, are you trying to make here? I’m really struggling with this, because I can only come up with seemingly two possible explanations. Either you’re trying to say that “Actually, slavery isn’t that bad!” Which, well, agree to disagree if that’s the case. Hot take: I think slavery was bad, even in the instances you’re describing there, and so maybe that means it was a bad idea to use those terms in the first place! Or are you trying to say that because all that other slavery existed, black people are quite silly for complaining so much about America’s slavery? If that’s the case, I’d encourage you to do a bit of reading on what slavery was like in America! Here’s a quick spoiler: Americans weren’t enslaving other Americans, and they certainly didn’t let their slaves buy their own citizenship! In fact, even when slavery was ended in America, they objected quite strongly to those formerly enslaved people being granted citizenship or exercising their rights to that citizenship in any way! Seriously, go ahead and do some research on what slavery was like in America, I think you’ll find yourself quite surprised. There’s a reason that when we say the word “slavery”, the first thing that comes to most people’s minds is the American South. They didn’t invent slavery, to be sure, but boy howdy they took it to the next level.

If that’s what leaps into a lot of people’s minds when they see the word “slave”, maybe it’s really surprising and unpleasant to see that used as a term when setting up a computer program? And maybe it’s not such a huge sacrifice to just change that word? Just one man’s opinion.
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Re: The historical roots of our computer terms [ In reply to ]
On 6/8/2020 9:14 AM, LsrsuitLry@yahoo.com wrote:
>> On Jun 7, 2020, at 2:22 PM, Yeechang Lee <ylee@columbia.edu> wrote:
>>
>> But that is the issue. Why should we kowtow to people who don't understand or don't care about history and etymology?
>>
> It’s not kowtowing, dude, it’s recognizing that language and context changes things (and sometimes it’s recognizing that the terminology was always bad and shouldn’t have been used in the first place!) The history and etymology of the word “gay” is that it meant happy. But if people misunderstand me today because I refer to anyone I see smiling as “gay”, I’m the one that’s in the wrong, not them for failing to understand etymology. I know change is scary, but I promise it won’t kill you.
>
>> The vast majority of historical slavery is not whites enslaving blacks, but everyone enslaving everyone (including themselves). As Tim said, Romans took Africans, Germans, and Britons as slaves, and conversely were willing to grant them citizenship if they purchased it or received it from their owners.
> What point, exactly, are you trying to make here? I’m really struggling with this, because I can only come up with seemingly two possible explanations. Either you’re trying to say that “Actually, slavery isn’t that bad!” Which, well, agree to disagree if that’s the case. Hot take: I think slavery was bad, even in the instances you’re describing there, and so maybe that means it was a bad idea to use those terms in the first place! Or are you trying to say that because all that other slavery existed, black people are quite silly for complaining so much about America’s slavery? If that’s the case, I’d encourage you to do a bit of reading on what slavery was like in America! Here’s a quick spoiler: Americans weren’t enslaving other Americans, and they certainly didn’t let their slaves buy their own citizenship! In fact, even when slavery was ended in America, they objected quite strongly to those formerly enslaved people being granted citizenship or exercising their rights to that citizenship in any way! Seriously, go ahead and do some research on what slavery was like in America, I think you’ll find yourself quite surprised. There’s a reason that when we say the word “slavery”, the first thing that comes to most people’s minds is the American South. They didn’t invent slavery, to be sure, but boy howdy they took it to the next level.
>
> If that’s what leaps into a lot of people’s minds when they see the word “slave”, maybe it’s really surprising and unpleasant to see that used as a term when setting up a computer program? And maybe it’s not such a huge sacrifice to just change that word? Just one man’s opinion.
> _______________________________________________
>


I agree with removing slave and master and blacklist and whitelist.
While we're at it can we change the word "jobs" to "tasks"? My wife
doesn't have a job and is deeply offended by this term. The hurt is real.
My children get a little bit offended when they see "Recording Rules"
since they do not much like rules. As we all know rules apply mostly to
children and putting that word in front of them tends to remind them of
their lower status than adults. Again the pain is real. (Of course we
must do all we can for the children for they are our future.) Then of
course there is the word "status" which could be misconstrued to be
about different social statuses. We can't have that either.
Why don't we just create a new language that doesn't have any words that
could offend? We could use numbers in the words in our new language to
shorten thing up. And we could allow creative spelling so nothing is
ever misspelled again. Then we could eliminate english class. What a
utopia we could have! :)

Jim


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Re: The historical roots of our computer terms [ In reply to ]
LsrsuitLry,

Thanks for your BS. The language police are never satisfied, as they
pursue a policy of punishing people for badthink.

Sorry, but I reject your Marxist BS, and I will not comply.

Calvin

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 11:13 AM <LsrsuitLry@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 6, 2020, at 12:05 PM, Calvin Dodge <caldodge@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > ?It's a stupid tweet, and I will not comply.
> >
> > Calvin
> >
> >> On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 7:42 AM Ian Evans <dheianevans@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Food for thought from the co-author of OAuth and oEmbed. How easy would it be for MythTV menus and docs to refer to primary and secondary backends for example?
> >>
> >> Leah Culver (@leahculver) tweeted at 11:32 PM on Fri, Jun 05, 2020:
> >> I refuse to use “whitelist”/“blacklist” or “master”/“slave” terminology for computers. Join me. Words matter.
> >> (https://twitter.com/leahculver/status/1269109776983547904?s=03)
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> mythtv-users mailing list
> >> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> >> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> >> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
> >> MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org
> >
>
> Calvin, thank you for being so brave. To have the courage to stand up to someone who has said, “This terminology is hurtful to some, could you consider maybe changing the words you use?” with a resounding, “No, you’re stupid, and I absolutely will never change!” must take such amazing courage. I appreciate you doing your part to keep us all safe from the tyranny of treating people with kindness and respect, sir.
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
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Re: The historical roots of our computer terms [ In reply to ]
> On 8 Jun 2020, at 9:14 pm, LsrsuitLry@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>>
>> On Jun 7, 2020, at 2:22 PM, Yeechang Lee <ylee@columbia.edu> wrote:
>>
>> But that is the issue. Why should we kowtow to people who don't understand or don't care about history and etymology?

I have never considered the words you find offensive in ANY but computer context. So you want me to change my words because they offend you? Seems like PC gone mad and certainly the whole dictonary needs vetting as would the hundreds of words added every year

There is also the whole issue of matriarchal and patriarchial languages, what the hell lets talk klingon.
(And lest my brazon uses of a semi expletive.went unnoticed, it was deliberate)

James.
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Re: The historical roots of our computer terms [ In reply to ]
Speech codes are a favorite tool of the Left to gain power and silence
the opposition. I will not comply.

https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2020/06/08/more-than-ever-its-time-to-unleash-the-power-of-no-n2570188

On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 7:02 PM jam@tigger.ws <jam@tigger.ws> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 8 Jun 2020, at 9:14 pm, LsrsuitLry@yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> On Jun 7, 2020, at 2:22 PM, Yeechang Lee <ylee@columbia.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >> But that is the issue. Why should we kowtow to people who don't understand or don't care about history and etymology?
>
> I have never considered the words you find offensive in ANY but computer context. So you want me to change my words because they offend you? Seems like PC gone mad and certainly the whole dictonary needs vetting as would the hundreds of words added every year
>
> There is also the whole issue of matriarchal and patriarchial languages, what the hell lets talk klingon.
> (And lest my brazon uses of a semi expletive.went unnoticed, it was deliberate)
>
> James.
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
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Re: The historical roots of our computer terms [ In reply to ]
Speech codes are a favorite tool of the right to retain power and silence the poor, weak and different.



Except they use their power and wealth to make their speech codes into 'laws' and this is one of those moments when the poor, weak, and different are a bit sick of, to steal a phrase from that article, using 'natural politeness' to ask for some acknowledgement of their issues and being ignored as a result.



That article is spittle-flinging incoherent nonsense. It would be pure comedy if it wasn't also whipping up it's readership into a rage and telling them to buy guns and bullets.



ffs.





---- On Tue, 09 Jun 2020 01:14:33 +0100 Calvin Dodge <mailto:caldodge@gmail.com> wrote ----



Speech codes are a favorite tool of the Left to gain power and silence
the opposition. I will not comply.

https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2020/06/08/more-than-ever-its-time-to-unleash-the-power-of-no-n2570188

On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 7:02 PM mailto:jam@tigger.ws <mailto:jam@tigger.ws> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 8 Jun 2020, at 9:14 pm, mailto:LsrsuitLry@yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> On Jun 7, 2020, at 2:22 PM, Yeechang Lee <mailto:ylee@columbia.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >> But that is the issue. Why should we kowtow to people who don't understand or don't care about history and etymology?
>
> I have never considered the words you find offensive in ANY but computer context. So you want me to change my words because they offend you? Seems like PC gone mad and certainly the whole dictonary needs vetting as would the hundreds of words added every year
>
> There is also the whole issue of matriarchal and patriarchial languages, what the hell lets talk klingon.
> (And lest my brazon uses of a semi expletive.went unnoticed, it was deliberate)
>
> James.
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mailto:mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
> MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org
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Re: The historical roots of our computer terms [ In reply to ]
>
>
> Speech codes are a favorite tool of the right to retain power and silence
> the poor, weak and different.
>
> Except they use their power and wealth to make their speech codes into
> 'laws' and this is one of those moments when the poor, weak, and different
> are a bit sick of, to steal a phrase from that article, using 'natural
> politeness' to ask for some acknowledgement of their issues and being
> ignored as a result.
>
> That article is spittle-flinging incoherent nonsense. It would be pure
> comedy if it wasn't also whipping up it's readership into a rage and
> telling them to buy guns and bullets.
>

One, please fix your top-posting.

Two, could we take this ranting and raving over to mythtv-politics and
either let this thread die or have one of the core devs weigh in on the
request (and then let the thread die)?

-jdm


>
> ffs.
>
>
> ---- On Tue, 09 Jun 2020 01:14:33 +0100 *Calvin Dodge <caldodge@gmail.com
> <caldodge@gmail.com>>* wrote ----
>
> Speech codes are a favorite tool of the Left to gain power and silence
> the opposition. I will not comply.
>
>
> https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2020/06/08/more-than-ever-its-time-to-unleash-the-power-of-no-n2570188
>
> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 7:02 PM jam@tigger.ws <jam@tigger.ws> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > On 8 Jun 2020, at 9:14 pm, LsrsuitLry@yahoo.com wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >> On Jun 7, 2020, at 2:22 PM, Yeechang Lee <ylee@columbia.edu> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> But that is the issue. Why should we kowtow to people who don't
> understand or don't care about history and etymology?
> >
> > I have never considered the words you find offensive in ANY but computer
> context. So you want me to change my words because they offend you? Seems
> like PC gone mad and certainly the whole dictonary needs vetting as would
> the hundreds of words added every year
> >
> > There is also the whole issue of matriarchal and patriarchial languages,
> what the hell lets talk klingon.
> > (And lest my brazon uses of a semi expletive.went unnoticed, it was
> deliberate)
> >
> > James.
> > _______________________________________________
> > mythtv-users mailing list
> > mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> > http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> > http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
> > MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
> MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
> MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org
>
Re: The historical roots of our computer terms [ In reply to ]
That's pure BS, Richard. Thanks for posting it, as it will help me judge
anything else you say.

Calvin

On Tue, Jun 9, 2020, 3:40 AM Richard Lane <lists@timeforabrew.com> wrote:

> Speech codes are a favorite tool of the right to retain power and silence
> the poor, weak and different.
>
> Except they use their power and wealth to make their speech codes into
> 'laws' and this is one of those moments when the poor, weak, and different
> are a bit sick of, to steal a phrase from that article, using 'natural
> politeness' to ask for some acknowledgement of their issues and being
> ignored as a result.
>
> That article is spittle-flinging incoherent nonsense. It would be pure
> comedy if it wasn't also whipping up it's readership into a rage and
> telling them to buy guns and bullets.
>
> ffs.
>
>
> ---- On Tue, 09 Jun 2020 01:14:33 +0100 *Calvin Dodge <caldodge@gmail.com
> <caldodge@gmail.com>>* wrote ----
>
> Speech codes are a favorite tool of the Left to gain power and silence
> the opposition. I will not comply.
>
>
> https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2020/06/08/more-than-ever-its-time-to-unleash-the-power-of-no-n2570188
>
> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 7:02 PM jam@tigger.ws <jam@tigger.ws> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > On 8 Jun 2020, at 9:14 pm, LsrsuitLry@yahoo.com wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >> On Jun 7, 2020, at 2:22 PM, Yeechang Lee <ylee@columbia.edu> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> But that is the issue. Why should we kowtow to people who don't
> understand or don't care about history and etymology?
> >
> > I have never considered the words you find offensive in ANY but computer
> context. So you want me to change my words because they offend you? Seems
> like PC gone mad and certainly the whole dictonary needs vetting as would
> the hundreds of words added every year
> >
> > There is also the whole issue of matriarchal and patriarchial languages,
> what the hell lets talk klingon.
> > (And lest my brazon uses of a semi expletive.went unnoticed, it was
> deliberate)
> >
> > James.
> > _______________________________________________
> > mythtv-users mailing list
> > mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> > http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> > http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
> > MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
> MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
> MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org
>
Re: The historical roots of our computer terms [ In reply to ]
Richard,

Which conservative speech codes have been made into law?

On Tue, Jun 9, 2020, 3:40 AM Richard Lane <lists@timeforabrew.com> wrote:

> Speech codes are a favorite tool of the right to retain power and silence
> the poor, weak and different.
>
> Except they use their power and wealth to make their speech codes into
> 'laws' and this is one of those moments when the poor, weak, and different
> are a bit sick of, to steal a phrase from that article, using 'natural
> politeness' to ask for some acknowledgement of their issues and being
> ignored as a result.
>
> That article is spittle-flinging incoherent nonsense. It would be pure
> comedy if it wasn't also whipping up it's readership into a rage and
> telling them to buy guns and bullets.
>
> ffs.
>
>
> ---- On Tue, 09 Jun 2020 01:14:33 +0100 *Calvin Dodge <caldodge@gmail.com
> <caldodge@gmail.com>>* wrote ----
>
> Speech codes are a favorite tool of the Left to gain power and silence
> the opposition. I will not comply.
>
>
> https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2020/06/08/more-than-ever-its-time-to-unleash-the-power-of-no-n2570188
>
> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 7:02 PM jam@tigger.ws <jam@tigger.ws> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > On 8 Jun 2020, at 9:14 pm, LsrsuitLry@yahoo.com wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >> On Jun 7, 2020, at 2:22 PM, Yeechang Lee <ylee@columbia.edu> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> But that is the issue. Why should we kowtow to people who don't
> understand or don't care about history and etymology?
> >
> > I have never considered the words you find offensive in ANY but computer
> context. So you want me to change my words because they offend you? Seems
> like PC gone mad and certainly the whole dictonary needs vetting as would
> the hundreds of words added every year
> >
> > There is also the whole issue of matriarchal and patriarchial languages,
> what the hell lets talk klingon.
> > (And lest my brazon uses of a semi expletive.went unnoticed, it was
> deliberate)
> >
> > James.
> > _______________________________________________
> > mythtv-users mailing list
> > mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> > http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> > http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
> > MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
> MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
> MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org
>
Re: The historical roots of our computer terms [ In reply to ]
/        could we take this ranting and raving over to mythtv-politics/

mythtv-politics?

mike

On 6/9/20 3:03 AM, Justin Moore wrote:
>
>
> Speech codes are a favorite tool of the right to retain power and
> silence the poor, weak and different.
>
> Except they use their power and wealth to make their speech codes
> into 'laws' and this is one of those moments when the poor, weak,
> and different are a bit sick of, to steal a phrase from that
> article, using 'natural politeness' to ask for some
> acknowledgement of their issues and being ignored as a result.
>
> That article is spittle-flinging incoherent nonsense. It would be
> pure comedy if it wasn't also whipping up it's readership into a
> rage and telling them to buy guns and bullets.
>
>
> One, please fix your top-posting.
>
> Two, could we take this ranting and raving over to mythtv-politics and
> either let this thread die or have one of the core devs weigh in on
> the request (and then let the thread die)?
>
> -jdm
>
>
> ffs.
>
>
> ---- On Tue, 09 Jun 2020 01:14:33 +0100 *Calvin Dodge
> <caldodge@gmail.com <mailto:caldodge@gmail.com>>* wrote ----
>
> Speech codes are a favorite tool of the Left to gain power and
> silence
> the opposition. I will not comply.
>
> https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2020/06/08/more-than-ever-its-time-to-unleash-the-power-of-no-n2570188
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 7:02 PM jam@tigger.ws
> <mailto:jam@tigger.ws> <jam@tigger.ws <mailto:jam@tigger.ws>>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > On 8 Jun 2020, at 9:14 pm, LsrsuitLry@yahoo.com
> <mailto:LsrsuitLry@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >> On Jun 7, 2020, at 2:22 PM, Yeechang Lee
> <ylee@columbia.edu <mailto:ylee@columbia.edu>> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> But that is the issue. Why should we kowtow to people who
> don't understand or don't care about history and etymology?
> >
> > I have never considered the words you find offensive in ANY
> but computer context. So you want me to change my words
> because they offend you? Seems like PC gone mad and certainly
> the whole dictonary needs vetting as would the hundreds of
> words added every year
> >
> > There is also the whole issue of matriarchal and
> patriarchial languages, what the hell lets talk klingon.
> > (And lest my brazon uses of a semi expletive.went unnoticed,
> it was deliberate)
> >
> > James.
> > _______________________________________________
> > mythtv-users mailing list
> > mythtv-users@mythtv.org <mailto:mythtv-users@mythtv.org>
> > http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> > http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
> > MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org <mailto:mythtv-users@mythtv.org>
> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
> MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org <mailto:mythtv-users@mythtv.org>
> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
> MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
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Re: The historical roots of our computer terms [ In reply to ]
Way to destroy  the list and software.
As mike said, WTF, over?!
Want DOS 3.1 or continue?

On 6/9/20 11:20 PM, Mike Carron wrote:
>
>
> /        could we take this ranting and raving over to mythtv-politics/
>
> mythtv-politics?
>
> mike
>
> On 6/9/20 3:03 AM, Justin Moore wrote:
>>
>>
>> Speech codes are a favorite tool of the right to retain power and
>> silence the poor, weak and different.
>>
>> Except they use their power and wealth to make their speech codes
>> into 'laws' and this is one of those moments when the poor, weak,
>> and different are a bit sick of, to steal a phrase from that
>> article, using 'natural politeness' to ask for some
>> acknowledgement of their issues and being ignored as a result.
>>
>> That article is spittle-flinging incoherent nonsense. It would be
>> pure comedy if it wasn't also whipping up it's readership into a
>> rage and telling them to buy guns and bullets.
>>
>>
>> One, please fix your top-posting.
>>
>> Two, could we take this ranting and raving over to mythtv-politics
>> and either let this thread die or have one of the core devs weigh in
>> on the request (and then let the thread die)?
>>
>> -jdm
>>
>>
>> ffs.
>>
>>
>> ---- On Tue, 09 Jun 2020 01:14:33 +0100 *Calvin Dodge
>> <caldodge@gmail.com <mailto:caldodge@gmail.com>>* wrote ----
>>
>> Speech codes are a favorite tool of the Left to gain power
>> and silence
>> the opposition. I will not comply.
>>
>> https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2020/06/08/more-than-ever-its-time-to-unleash-the-power-of-no-n2570188
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 7:02 PM jam@tigger.ws
>> <mailto:jam@tigger.ws> <jam@tigger.ws <mailto:jam@tigger.ws>>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > > On 8 Jun 2020, at 9:14 pm, LsrsuitLry@yahoo.com
>> <mailto:LsrsuitLry@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >>
>> > >> On Jun 7, 2020, at 2:22 PM, Yeechang Lee
>> <ylee@columbia.edu <mailto:ylee@columbia.edu>> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> But that is the issue. Why should we kowtow to people
>> who don't understand or don't care about history and etymology?
>> >
>> > I have never considered the words you find offensive in ANY
>> but computer context. So you want me to change my words
>> because they offend you? Seems like PC gone mad and certainly
>> the whole dictonary needs vetting as would the hundreds of
>> words added every year
>> >
>> > There is also the whole issue of matriarchal and
>> patriarchial languages, what the hell lets talk klingon.
>> > (And lest my brazon uses of a semi expletive.went
>> unnoticed, it was deliberate)
>> >
>> > James.
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > mythtv-users mailing list
>> > mythtv-users@mythtv.org <mailto:mythtv-users@mythtv.org>
>> > http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>> > http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
>> > MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> mythtv-users mailing list
>> mythtv-users@mythtv.org <mailto:mythtv-users@mythtv.org>
>> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
>> MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mythtv-users mailing list
>> mythtv-users@mythtv.org <mailto:mythtv-users@mythtv.org>
>> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
>> MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mythtv-users mailing list
>> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
>> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
>> MythTV Forums:https://forum.mythtv.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
> MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org