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On 23/05/2020 03:52, Blue wrote:
> Hi all
>
> I’m asking for advocasy. Why should I use 31 and not 30
>
> I find 31 slow to start, 30 odd secs for 31 vs 1 sec for 30
> On my high sierra mac, thanks to John’s hard work, a frontend does run, but the audio and video drift to be many seconds apart.
> A virtualBox VM running ubuntu (downloaded packages) and opensuse Tumbleweed (built from src) has the same audio drift
> A parallels VN tunning either of the above distros frontend does *not* show the drift.

Things may be different on Macs, but I believe that a/v sync drift in
recent frontends is usually caused by frame dropping when the selected
deinterlacer is working too hard. Try one that isn't quite so demanding.

Setup > Video > Playback > Current Video Playback Profile > ....

>
> So I *can* have acceptable playback, the catelina build running on catelina
> A parallels VM running on hight sierra
> If I use 30 an osx frontend does work everywhere
>
> Thanks
> James
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> On 23 May 2020, at 5:38 pm, John Pilkington <johnpilk222@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi all
>> I’m asking for advocasy. Why should I use 31 and not 30
>> I find 31 slow to start, 30 odd secs for 31 vs 1 sec for 30
>> On my high sierra mac, thanks to John’s hard work, a frontend does run, but the audio and video drift to be many seconds apart.
>> A virtualBox VM running ubuntu (downloaded packages) and opensuse Tumbleweed (built from src) has the same audio drift
>> A parallels VN tunning either of the above distros frontend does *not* show the drift.
>
> Things may be different on Macs, but I believe that a/v sync drift in recent frontends is usually caused by frame dropping when the selected deinterlacer is working too hard. Try one that isn't quite so demanding.
>
> Setup > Video > Playback > Current Video Playback Profile > ....
John thanks
I was decieved by cpu load but changing the deinterlacer fixed the problem
James

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On 24/05/2020 00:16, jam@tigger.ws wrote:
>> On 23 May 2020, at 5:38 pm, John Pilkington <johnpilk222@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all
>>> I’m asking for advocasy. Why should I use 31 and not 30
>>> I find 31 slow to start, 30 odd secs for 31 vs 1 sec for 30
>>> On my high sierra mac, thanks to John’s hard work, a frontend does run, but the audio and video drift to be many seconds apart.
>>> A virtualBox VM running ubuntu (downloaded packages) and opensuse Tumbleweed (built from src) has the same audio drift
>>> A parallels VN tunning either of the above distros frontend does *not* show the drift.
>>
>> Things may be different on Macs, but I believe that a/v sync drift in recent frontends is usually caused by frame dropping when the selected deinterlacer is working too hard. Try one that isn't quite so demanding.
>>
>> Setup > Video > Playback > Current Video Playback Profile > ....
> John thanks
> I was decieved by cpu load but changing the deinterlacer fixed the problem

Isn't that still a bad sign for the new synchronisation mechanism,
though? = that it should drift so far when the video is struggling.

Paul.
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> On 24 May 2020, at 5:04 pm, Paul Gardiner <lists@glidos.net> wrote:
>
>>>>
>>>> Hi all
>>>> I’m asking for advocasy. Why should I use 31 and not 30
>>>> I find 31 slow to start, 30 odd secs for 31 vs 1 sec for 30
>>>> On my high sierra mac, thanks to John’s hard work, a frontend does run, but the audio and video drift to be many seconds apart.
>>>> A virtualBox VM running ubuntu (downloaded packages) and opensuse Tumbleweed (built from src) has the same audio drift
>>>> A parallels VN tunning either of the above distros frontend does *not* show the drift.
>>>
>>> Things may be different on Macs, but I believe that a/v sync drift in recent frontends is usually caused by frame dropping when the selected deinterlacer is working too hard. Try one that isn't quite so demanding.
>>>
>>> Setup > Video > Playback > Current Video Playback Profile > ....
>> John thanks
>> I was decieved by cpu load but changing the deinterlacer fixed the problem
>
> Isn't that still a bad sign for the new synchronisation mechanism, though? = that it should drift so far when the video is struggling.

And we are not talking mS but 10s S or minutes
James
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On 5/24/20 2:59 AM, jam wrote:
>
>> On 24 May 2020, at 5:04 pm, Paul Gardiner <lists@glidos.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>> Hi all
>>>>> I’m asking for advocasy. Why should I use 31 and not 30
>>>>> I find 31 slow to start, 30 odd secs for 31 vs 1 sec for 30
>>>>> On my high sierra mac, thanks to John’s hard work, a frontend does run, but the audio and video drift to be many seconds apart.
>>>>> A virtualBox VM running ubuntu (downloaded packages) and opensuse Tumbleweed (built from src) has the same audio drift
>>>>> A parallels VN tunning either of the above distros frontend does *not* show the drift.
>>>> Things may be different on Macs, but I believe that a/v sync drift in recent frontends is usually caused by frame dropping when the selected deinterlacer is working too hard. Try one that isn't quite so demanding.
>>>>
>>>> Setup > Video > Playback > Current Video Playback Profile > ....
>>> John thanks
>>> I was decieved by cpu load but changing the deinterlacer fixed the problem
>> Isn't that still a bad sign for the new synchronisation mechanism, though? = that it should drift so far when the video is struggling.
> And we are not talking mS but 10s S or minutes
> James

Still haven't seen a response that answers the question "Why should I
use 31 and not 30?".  Are there bug fixes, features, improvements of any
kind?  So far, all I've seen are new bugs.

Dave D.


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On Mon, 1 Jun 2020 23:03:06 -0700, you wrote:

>On 5/24/20 2:59 AM, jam wrote:
>>
>>> On 24 May 2020, at 5:04 pm, Paul Gardiner <lists@glidos.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> Hi all
>>>>>> I?m asking for advocasy. Why should I use 31 and not 30
>>>>>> I find 31 slow to start, 30 odd secs for 31 vs 1 sec for 30
>>>>>> On my high sierra mac, thanks to John?s hard work, a frontend does run, but the audio and video drift to be many seconds apart.
>>>>>> A virtualBox VM running ubuntu (downloaded packages) and opensuse Tumbleweed (built from src) has the same audio drift
>>>>>> A parallels VN tunning either of the above distros frontend does *not* show the drift.
>>>>> Things may be different on Macs, but I believe that a/v sync drift in recent frontends is usually caused by frame dropping when the selected deinterlacer is working too hard. Try one that isn't quite so demanding.
>>>>>
>>>>> Setup > Video > Playback > Current Video Playback Profile > ....
>>>> John thanks
>>>> I was decieved by cpu load but changing the deinterlacer fixed the problem
>>> Isn't that still a bad sign for the new synchronisation mechanism, though? = that it should drift so far when the video is struggling.
>> And we are not talking mS but 10s S or minutes
>> James
>
>Still haven't seen a response that answers the question "Why should I
>use 31 and not 30?".? Are there bug fixes, features, improvements of any
>kind?? So far, all I've seen are new bugs.
>
>Dave D.

The new rendering code is the big change - a behind the scenes change,
but quite significant. If you have Intel or AMD video, then I believe
the new rendering code is now able to use them just as well as Nvidia.
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Still haven't seen a response that answers the question "Why should I
use 31 and not 30?". Are there bug fixes, features, improvements of any
kind? So far, all I've seen are new bugs.

Dave D.


_________________________________________

https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Release_Notes_-_31

> On 2 Jun 2020, at 2:12 pm, Stephen Worthington <stephen_agent@jsw.gen.nz> wrote:
>
>>
>> Still haven't seen a response that answers the question "Why should I
>> use 31 and not 30?". Are there bug fixes, features, improvements of any
>> kind? So far, all I've seen are new bugs.
>>
>> Dave D.
>
> The new rendering code is the big change - a behind the scenes change,
> but quite significant. If you have Intel or AMD video, then I believe
> the new rendering code is now able to use them just as well as Nvidia.

Dave the only reason I see is that the devs are interestested in 31 but not in auld stuff like 30.
If you build from source, unlike previous releases I’ve looked at, 30 won't *easily* build on o modern distro like ubuntu 20.04 suse leap 15.2 or I imagine any of the fedora line.
By same token 31 won’t build on older distros.

The app image route may well be the way ahead and I guess the shotcut folk can tell us lots

James
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On 02/06/2020 07:12, Stephen Worthington wrote:
> On Mon, 1 Jun 2020 23:03:06 -0700, you wrote:
>
>> On 5/24/20 2:59 AM, jam wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 24 May 2020, at 5:04 pm, Paul Gardiner <lists@glidos.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi all
>>>>>>> I’m asking for advocasy. Why should I use 31 and not 30
>>>>>>> I find 31 slow to start, 30 odd secs for 31 vs 1 sec for 30
>>>>>>> On my high sierra mac, thanks to John’s hard work, a frontend does run, but the audio and video drift to be many seconds apart.
>>>>>>> A virtualBox VM running ubuntu (downloaded packages) and opensuse Tumbleweed (built from src) has the same audio drift
>>>>>>> A parallels VN tunning either of the above distros frontend does *not* show the drift.
>>>>>> Things may be different on Macs, but I believe that a/v sync drift in recent frontends is usually caused by frame dropping when the selected deinterlacer is working too hard. Try one that isn't quite so demanding.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Setup > Video > Playback > Current Video Playback Profile > ....
>>>>> John thanks
>>>>> I was decieved by cpu load but changing the deinterlacer fixed the problem
>>>> Isn't that still a bad sign for the new synchronisation mechanism, though? = that it should drift so far when the video is struggling.
>>> And we are not talking mS but 10s S or minutes
>>> James
>>
>> Still haven't seen a response that answers the question "Why should I
>> use 31 and not 30?".  Are there bug fixes, features, improvements of any
>> kind?  So far, all I've seen are new bugs.
>>
>> Dave D.
>
> The new rendering code is the big change - a behind the scenes change,
> but quite significant. If you have Intel or AMD video, then I believe
> the new rendering code is now able to use them just as well as Nvidia.

Which is awesome, but it does seem worrying (although not at all
surprising) that some regressions have been introduced in the process...
I guess they'll get fixed in time.

It's a shame there is no roll-back procedure for the database (other
than installing a backup and losing recent additions). It would be so
good to try new versions for a month and then be able to roll back if
the regressions outweigh the improvements.
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On 02/06/2020 13:25, Paul Gardiner wrote:
>
>
> On 02/06/2020 07:12, Stephen Worthington wrote:
>> On Mon, 1 Jun 2020 23:03:06 -0700, you wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/24/20 2:59 AM, jam wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 24 May 2020, at 5:04 pm, Paul Gardiner <lists@glidos.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi all
>>>>>>>> I’m asking for advocasy. Why should I use 31 and not 30
>>>>>>>> I find 31 slow to start, 30 odd secs for 31 vs 1 sec for 30
>>>>>>>> On my high sierra mac, thanks to John’s hard work, a frontend
>>>>>>>> does run, but the audio and video drift to be many seconds apart.
>>>>>>>> A virtualBox VM running ubuntu (downloaded packages) and
>>>>>>>> opensuse Tumbleweed (built from src) has the same audio drift
>>>>>>>> A parallels VN tunning either of the above distros frontend does
>>>>>>>> *not* show the drift.
>>>>>>> Things may be different on Macs, but I believe that a/v sync
>>>>>>> drift in recent frontends is usually caused by frame dropping
>>>>>>> when the selected deinterlacer is working too hard.  Try one that
>>>>>>> isn't quite so demanding.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Setup > Video > Playback > Current Video Playback Profile >  ....
>>>>>> John thanks
>>>>>> I was decieved by cpu load but changing the deinterlacer fixed the
>>>>>> problem
>>>>> Isn't that still a bad sign for the new synchronisation mechanism,
>>>>> though? = that it should drift so far when the video is struggling.
>>>> And we are not talking mS but 10s S or minutes
>>>> James
>>>
>>> Still haven't seen a response that answers the question "Why should I
>>> use 31 and not 30?".  Are there bug fixes, features, improvements of any
>>> kind?  So far, all I've seen are new bugs.
>>>
>>> Dave D.
>>
>> The new rendering code is the big change - a behind the scenes change,
>> but quite significant.  If you have Intel or AMD video, then I believe
>> the new rendering code is now able to use them just as well as Nvidia.
>
> Which is awesome, but it does seem worrying (although not at all
> surprising) that some regressions have been introduced in the process...
> I guess they'll get fixed in time.
>
> It's a shame there is no roll-back procedure for the database (other
> than installing a backup and losing recent additions). It would be so
> good to try new versions for a month and then be able to roll back if
> the regressions outweigh the improvements.

I'm not sure that there are 'regressions'. Mostly there are new
options, and maybe their defaults aren't always autoselected
appropriately for all sets of hardware.

The main benefit of this remarkable effort is probably maintainability.

John P

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On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 8:21 AM jam <jam@tigger.ws> wrote:

> Dave the only reason I see is that the devs are interestested in 31 but not in auld stuff like 30.

I think the correct way to say this is that the developers
focus on moving forward, and not looking backwards,
and while efforts will be made to attempt to address
issues in the most current stable release (v31), just as
has always been the practice, previous releases of
MythTV will get fixes far less often, and typically only
for very specific point issues that are considered high
impact, after a newer stable release is made available.

That does not mean to imply that v30 (or previous
releases) will stop working, but if you have any issue
do expect to be asked to reproduce that issue on at
least the latest stable release (since that issue may
have been fixed directly, or indirectly) and if there was
recent work in a related part of MythTV, you may be
asked to test the master branch.

> If you build from source, unlike previous releases I’ve
> looked at, 30 won't *easily* build on o modern distro like ubuntu 20.04 suse leap 15.2 or I imagine any of the fedora line.

I think one of the biggest changes is that many
modern distros have removed or deprecated
python2 support, and pre-v31 versions of MythTV
required python2 for a number of ancillary functions.
If one is planning to move to a more modern distro,
one should expect to also need to upgrade their
versions of many apps, and that includes MythTV
(or expect to need to perform some gyrations and
gymnastics, depending on the distro, to get
python2 support installed).

> By same token 31 won’t build on older distros.

v31 will mostly build on older distros (if the old is not
too old, and one installs later version of some of the
dependencies; I semi-regularly test build v31 and
master for CentOS 7, and that is mostly considered
ancient in Internet time, and I have even (very)
experimentally build v31 on CentOS 7 with only
python3 rather than python2 requirements), but the
MythTV project has a target to build/run on the
latest stable releases of the major distros when
viable, and does not regularly test older versions
those distros, so I am sure some older distros will
no longer build v31.
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> On 3 Jun 2020, at 6:20 am, Gary Buhrmaster <gary.buhrmaster@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dave the only reason I see is that the devs are interestested in 31 but not in auld stuff like 30.
>
> I think the correct way to say this is that the developers
> focus on moving forward, and not looking backwards,
> and while efforts will be made to attempt to address
> issues in the most current stable release (v31), just as
> has always been the practice, previous releases of
> MythTV will get fixes far less often, and typically only
> for very specific point issues that are considered high
> impact, after a newer stable release is made available.

I’ll never be a politition! I humbly appologise for any unintended slur.

James
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On 6/2/20 1:17 AM, Mark Perkins wrote:

Still haven't seen a response that answers the question "Why should I
use 31 and not 30?".  Are there bug fixes, features, improvements of any
kind?  So far, all I've seen are new bugs.

Dave D.


_________________________________________

https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Release_Notes_-_31"]https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Release_Notes_-_31

So, unless you have new hardware (like Intel video) and need to upgrade your distro and your distro's current version only supports the latest version (which was my situation), don't upgrade.  (others have posted "don't upgrade unless you HAVE to")


But, if you want to stay current for the sake of being able to run the latest (of everything, not just Myth), you need to figure out how to configure XMLTV (figure on at least a couple of days, if not a couple of weeks for that one) and re-configure your playback profile (unless you have Nvidia).

I had a super-stable system for years, running nicely on a dual core AMD with Nvidia.  Everything just worked.  Then, I fell for the Meltdown/Spectre debacle and upgraded all my software to be "safe" (I still think it was a conspiracy between hardware/software vendors to get people like me who were perfectly happy with status quo to throw out perfectly good systems and buy new ones).  My system turned into an absolute slug so I had to upgrade the hardware:  just what the conspirators had in mind! :)  I'm getting close to that state, again, but it's been a LOT of work (the latest is a cron job that kills the stuck mythcommflag processes that never end and cause others to queue up behind it).


I really DO appreciate all the work being put into this system.  Thank you to all who supply the continuously advancing technology that gives me something to play with while sheltering in place.  :)

Dave D.

On 6/2/2020 10:52 PM, DaveD wrote:
> Then, I fell for the Meltdown/Spectre debacle and upgraded all my
> software to be "safe"

Just out of curiosity:
Do you happen to have untrusted users on the machine that is providing
MythTV to you?

This isn't a judgment, but am curious. I get the impression that to the
detriment of users, the media (and even security companies) often pile
on to things that are "the new hotness" as opposed to managing things
that *really* matter.


-WD
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> On 15 Jun 2020, at 5:37 am, Will Dormann <wdormann@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Then, I fell for the Meltdown/Spectre debacle and upgraded all my
>> software to be "safe"
>
> Just out of curiosity:
> Do you happen to have untrusted users on the machine that is providing
> MythTV to you?
>
> This isn't a judgment, but am curious. I get the impression that to the
> detriment of users, the media (and even security companies) often pile
> on to things that are "the new hotness" as opposed to managing things
> that *really* matter.

The answer is No. I venture to suggest that *most* mythtv users will fall into the group where their wives or teenage sons (sorry gurlz) do not pose any threat to your prize installation.
James
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