Mailing List Archive: frontend video smoothness

frontend video smoothness

May 18, 2020, 8:50 AM

Post #1 of 9 (1200 views)

I now have an easy way to test multiple frontends very quickly switching
between them to compare which is best.

And as all of you know the best can be different depending on which
video, which format, etc. I've found a short scene where the camera pans
past a number of people, and that motion makes the pan seem slightly
jerk, but not bad, certainly it doesn't prevent enjoyable viewing of the
program.

Hardware:

Backend common for all frontends. Core i7 Ubuntu 18.04 server Mythtv
v31. All video captured is MPEG2 USA OTA HD 1080i (1920x1080@30hz).
Average bit rate is 10Mb/s.

Frontends:

1. Core i7 with Nvidia GT 1030 fanless GFX card

2. Nvidia Shield TV running mythfrontend and leanfront.

3. RP3B+ with MPEG2 license.

I would have guess before hand that the PC with the GT1030 would be the
best, but it wasn't.

ratings:

1. Nvidia Shield TV Leanfront.

2. PC with GT1030 mythfrontend

3. Nvidia Shield TV mythfrontend

4. RPi3B+ Kodi 18.6

5. RPi3B+ mythfrontend

It's good to see that mythtv frontends are good on a lot of platforms.
Thanks to all the developers.

Jim A

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Re: frontend video smoothness [ In reply to ]

johnpilk222 at gmail

May 18, 2020, 9:54 AM

Post #2 of 9 (1200 views)

Permalink

On 18/05/2020 16:50, Jim Abernathy wrote:
> I now have an easy way to test multiple frontends very quickly switching
> between them to compare which is best.
>
> And as all of you know the best can be different depending on which
> video, which format, etc. I've found a short scene where the camera pans
> past a number of people, and that motion makes the pan seem slightly
> jerk, but not bad, certainly it doesn't prevent enjoyable viewing of the
> program.
>
> Hardware:
>
> Backend common for all frontends. Core i7 Ubuntu 18.04 server Mythtv
> v31. All video captured is MPEG2 USA OTA HD 1080i (1920x1080@30hz).
> Average bit rate is 10Mb/s.
>
> Frontends:
>
> 1. Core i7 with Nvidia GT 1030 fanless GFX card
>
> 2. Nvidia Shield TV running mythfrontend and leanfront.
>
> 3. RP3B+ with MPEG2 license.
>
> I would have guess before hand that the PC with the GT1030 would be the
> best, but it wasn't.

Using DVB-T/T2 in the UK I find that the Leanfront on a 4K Firestick is
excellent when it works, but it still seems to need purely progressive
content and that often can't be guaranteed. I have GT710s, which are
less capable than your GT1030, and they lack smoothness in panning when
using nvdec hardware decoding. But with i5 4-core 3 GHz software
decoding, playback is as smooth as I get from DLNA or the leanback on
appropriate content. I haven't seen what newer and cheaper devices can
do, but I'm sceptical. I think you ought to try software decoding on
your i7.

And I recently noticed that the leanfront seems to work well with live
DVB-T mpeg2 material, while recordings now have good audio but the video
pauses briefly about once a second and sync is terrible...

John P

>
> ratings:
>
> 1. Nvidia Shield TV Leanfront.
>
> 2. PC with GT1030 mythfrontend
>
> 3. Nvidia Shield TV mythfrontend
>
> 4. RPi3B+ Kodi 18.6
>
> 5. RPi3B+ mythfrontend
>
> It's good to see that mythtv frontends are good on a lot of platforms.
> Thanks to all the developers.
>
> Jim A
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
> MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org

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Re: frontend video smoothness [ In reply to ]

jfabernathy at gmail

May 18, 2020, 10:24 AM

Post #3 of 9 (1196 views)

Permalink

On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 12:54 PM John Pilkington <johnpilk222@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On 18/05/2020 16:50, Jim Abernathy wrote:
> > I now have an easy way to test multiple frontends very quickly switching
> > between them to compare which is best.
> >
> > And as all of you know the best can be different depending on which
> > video, which format, etc. I've found a short scene where the camera pans
> > past a number of people, and that motion makes the pan seem slightly
> > jerk, but not bad, certainly it doesn't prevent enjoyable viewing of the
> > program.
> >
> > Hardware:
> >
> > Backend common for all frontends. Core i7 Ubuntu 18.04 server Mythtv
> > v31. All video captured is MPEG2 USA OTA HD 1080i (1920x1080@30hz).
> > Average bit rate is 10Mb/s.
> >
> > Frontends:
> >
> > 1. Core i7 with Nvidia GT 1030 fanless GFX card
> >
> > 2. Nvidia Shield TV running mythfrontend and leanfront.
> >
> > 3. RP3B+ with MPEG2 license.
> >
> > I would have guess before hand that the PC with the GT1030 would be the
> > best, but it wasn't.
>
> Using DVB-T/T2 in the UK I find that the Leanfront on a 4K Firestick is
> excellent when it works, but it still seems to need purely progressive
> content and that often can't be guaranteed. I have GT710s, which are
> less capable than your GT1030, and they lack smoothness in panning when
> using nvdec hardware decoding. But with i5 4-core 3 GHz software
> decoding, playback is as smooth as I get from DLNA or the leanback on
> appropriate content. I haven't seen what newer and cheaper devices can
> do, but I'm sceptical. I think you ought to try software decoding on
> your i7.
>
> And I recently noticed that the leanfront seems to work well with live
> DVB-T mpeg2 material, while recordings now have good audio but the video
> pauses briefly about once a second and sync is terrible...
>
> John P
>
> >
> > ratings:
> >
> > 1. Nvidia Shield TV Leanfront.
> >
> > 2. PC with GT1030 mythfrontend
> >
> > 3. Nvidia Shield TV mythfrontend
> >
> > 4. RPi3B+ Kodi 18.6
> >
> > 5. RPi3B+ mythfrontend
> >
> > It's good to see that mythtv frontends are good on a lot of platforms.
> > Thanks to all the developers.
> >
> > Jim A
> >
>

My wife uses our FireTV 4K Stick, but I've tested it. It's not as good on
Leanfront as the Shield TV, but very acceptable. She's not as critical as
I am and thinks it's very good for playing recorded TV.

All our TV is OTA, either 1080i or 720p mpeg2

Jim A

Re: frontend video smoothness [ In reply to ]

jksjdevelop at gmail

May 18, 2020, 11:05 AM

Post #4 of 9 (1196 views)

Permalink

On 18/05/2020 18:24, James Abernathy wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 12:54 PM John Pilkington
> <johnpilk222@gmail.com <mailto:johnpilk222@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> On 18/05/2020 16:50, Jim Abernathy wrote:
> > I now have an easy way to test multiple frontends very quickly
> switching
> > between them to compare which is best.
> >
> > And as all of you know the best can be different depending on which
> > video, which format, etc. I've found a short scene where the
> camera pans
> > past a number of people, and that motion makes the pan seem
> slightly
> > jerk, but not bad, certainly it doesn't prevent enjoyable
> viewing of the
> > program.
> >
> > Hardware:
> >
> > Backend common for all frontends. Core i7 Ubuntu 18.04 server
> Mythtv
> > v31. All video captured is MPEG2 USA OTA HD 1080i (1920x1080@30hz).
> > Average bit rate is 10Mb/s.
> >
> > Frontends:
> >
> > 1. Core i7 with Nvidia GT 1030 fanless GFX card
> >
> > 2. Nvidia Shield TV running mythfrontend and leanfront.
> >
> > 3. RP3B+ with MPEG2 license.
> >
> > I would have guess before hand that the PC with the GT1030 would
> be the
> > best, but it wasn't.
>
> Using DVB-T/T2 in the UK I find that the Leanfront on a 4K
> Firestick is
> excellent when it works, but it still seems to need purely
> progressive
> content and that often can't be guaranteed. I have GT710s, which are
> less capable than your GT1030, and they lack smoothness in panning
> when
> using nvdec hardware decoding. But with i5 4-core 3 GHz software
> decoding, playback is as smooth as I get from DLNA or the leanback on
> appropriate content. I haven't seen what newer and cheaper
> devices can
> do, but I'm sceptical. I think you ought to try software decoding on
> your i7.
>
> And I recently noticed that the leanfront seems to work well with
> live
> DVB-T mpeg2 material, while recordings now have good audio but the
> video
> pauses briefly about once a second and sync is terrible...
>
> John P
>
> >
> > ratings:
> >
> > 1. Nvidia Shield TV Leanfront.
> >
> > 2. PC with GT1030 mythfrontend
> >
> > 3. Nvidia Shield TV mythfrontend
> >
> > 4. RPi3B+ Kodi 18.6
> >
> > 5. RPi3B+ mythfrontend
> >
> > It's good to see that mythtv frontends are good on a lot of
> platforms.
> > Thanks to all the developers.
> >
> > Jim A
> >
>
>
> With v31 of the Frontend playback on Intel hardware using VAAPI is
> very good. It may be worth unplugging a cheap Nvidia card and trying
> the onboard graphics.

Re: frontend video smoothness [ In reply to ]

jfabernathy at gmail

May 18, 2020, 12:52 PM

Post #5 of 9 (1196 views)

Permalink

On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 2:05 PM John <jksjdevelop@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 18/05/2020 18:24, James Abernathy wrote:
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 12:54 PM John Pilkington <johnpilk222@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 18/05/2020 16:50, Jim Abernathy wrote:
>> > I now have an easy way to test multiple frontends very quickly
>> switching
>> > between them to compare which is best.
>> >
>> > And as all of you know the best can be different depending on which
>> > video, which format, etc. I've found a short scene where the camera
>> pans
>> > past a number of people, and that motion makes the pan seem slightly
>> > jerk, but not bad, certainly it doesn't prevent enjoyable viewing of
>> the
>> > program.
>> >
>> > Hardware:
>> >
>> > Backend common for all frontends. Core i7 Ubuntu 18.04 server Mythtv
>> > v31. All video captured is MPEG2 USA OTA HD 1080i (1920x1080@30hz).
>> > Average bit rate is 10Mb/s.
>> >
>> > Frontends:
>> >
>> > 1. Core i7 with Nvidia GT 1030 fanless GFX card
>> >
>> > 2. Nvidia Shield TV running mythfrontend and leanfront.
>> >
>> > 3. RP3B+ with MPEG2 license.
>> >
>> > I would have guess before hand that the PC with the GT1030 would be the
>> > best, but it wasn't.
>>
>> Using DVB-T/T2 in the UK I find that the Leanfront on a 4K Firestick is
>> excellent when it works, but it still seems to need purely progressive
>> content and that often can't be guaranteed. I have GT710s, which are
>> less capable than your GT1030, and they lack smoothness in panning when
>> using nvdec hardware decoding. But with i5 4-core 3 GHz software
>> decoding, playback is as smooth as I get from DLNA or the leanback on
>> appropriate content. I haven't seen what newer and cheaper devices can
>> do, but I'm sceptical. I think you ought to try software decoding on
>> your i7.
>>
>> And I recently noticed that the leanfront seems to work well with live
>> DVB-T mpeg2 material, while recordings now have good audio but the video
>> pauses briefly about once a second and sync is terrible...
>>
>> John P
>>
>> >
>> > ratings:
>> >
>> > 1. Nvidia Shield TV Leanfront.
>> >
>> > 2. PC with GT1030 mythfrontend
>> >
>> > 3. Nvidia Shield TV mythfrontend
>> >
>> > 4. RPi3B+ Kodi 18.6
>> >
>> > 5. RPi3B+ mythfrontend
>> >
>> > It's good to see that mythtv frontends are good on a lot of platforms.
>> > Thanks to all the developers.
>> >
>> > Jim A
>> >
>>
>
> With v31 of the Frontend playback on Intel hardware using VAAPI is very
> good. It may be worth unplugging a cheap Nvidia card and trying the onboard
> graphics.
>
> In my case the Intel hardware is about 8 years old. Core i7 yes, but
Sandy Bridge generation. It is really doing a good job with the GT1030
installed. My test video clip is the first I've found that shows the
Nvida Shield TV running Leanfront to be the best.

What this means to me is that I have proof that for my needs, if I had to
start over, my backend would be an RPi4 4GB with HDHR Quatro and my
frontend would be a Shield TV.

I just hope I don't have to start over. Some people collect vintage wine.
I have vintage PCs. I have 3 Sandy Bridge Core i7 PC all doing useful
work. It's fun keeping them alive.

Jim A

Re: frontend video smoothness [ In reply to ]

lists at glidos

May 19, 2020, 12:54 AM

Post #6 of 9 (1184 views)

Permalink

On 18/05/2020 17:54, John Pilkington wrote:
> On 18/05/2020 16:50, Jim Abernathy wrote:
>> I now have an easy way to test multiple frontends very quickly
>> switching between them to compare which is best.
>>
>> And as all of you know the best can be different depending on which
>> video, which format, etc. I've found a short scene where the camera
>> pans past a number of people, and that motion makes the pan seem
>> slightly jerk, but not bad, certainly it doesn't prevent enjoyable
>> viewing of the program.
>>
>> Hardware:
>>
>> Backend common for all frontends. Core i7 Ubuntu 18.04 server Mythtv
>> v31. All video captured is MPEG2 USA OTA HD 1080i (1920x1080@30hz).
>> Average bit rate is 10Mb/s.
>>
>> Frontends:
>>
>> 1. Core i7 with Nvidia GT 1030 fanless GFX card
>>
>> 2. Nvidia Shield TV running mythfrontend and leanfront.
>>
>> 3. RP3B+ with MPEG2 license.
>>
>> I would have guess before hand that the PC with the GT1030 would be
>> the best, but it wasn't.
>
> Using DVB-T/T2 in the UK I find that the Leanfront on a 4K Firestick is
> excellent when it works, but it still seems to need purely progressive
> content and that often can't be guaranteed. I have GT710s, which are
> less capable than your GT1030, and they lack smoothness in panning when
> using nvdec hardware decoding. But with i5 4-core 3 GHz software
> decoding, playback is as smooth as I get from DLNA or the leanback on
> appropriate content. I haven't seen what newer and cheaper devices can
> do, but I'm sceptical. I think you ought to try software decoding on
> your i7.

That worries me a little. I still have an old nvidia ION based frontend
that seems to play everything I throw at it perfectly, but I'm still on
v29 and using vdpau. I hope the rendering rewrite hasn't caused any
regression.

> And I recently noticed that the leanfront seems to work well with live
> DVB-T mpeg2 material, while recordings now have good audio but the video
> pauses briefly about once a second and sync is terrible...

That sounds like the TV being driven at the wrong frame rate, either a
24fps movies played with the TV running at 25fps or vice versa. I'm
finding leanfront really very nice to use these days, but that is one
constant pain, having to do the strange vulcan nerve pinch on the
firestick control to get 24fps.

Paul G.
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Re: frontend video smoothness [ In reply to ]

johnpilk222 at gmail

May 19, 2020, 4:08 AM

Post #7 of 9 (1179 views)

Permalink

On 19/05/2020 08:54, Paul Gardiner wrote:
> On 18/05/2020 17:54, John Pilkington wrote:
>> On 18/05/2020 16:50, Jim Abernathy wrote:
>>> I now have an easy way to test multiple frontends very quickly
>>> switching between them to compare which is best.
>>>
>>> And as all of you know the best can be different depending on which
>>> video, which format, etc. I've found a short scene where the camera
>>> pans past a number of people, and that motion makes the pan seem
>>> slightly jerk, but not bad, certainly it doesn't prevent enjoyable
>>> viewing of the program.
>>>
>>> Hardware:
>>>
>>> Backend common for all frontends. Core i7 Ubuntu 18.04 server Mythtv
>>> v31. All video captured is MPEG2 USA OTA HD 1080i (1920x1080@30hz).
>>> Average bit rate is 10Mb/s.
>>>
>>> Frontends:
>>>
>>> 1. Core i7 with Nvidia GT 1030 fanless GFX card
>>>
>>> 2. Nvidia Shield TV running mythfrontend and leanfront.
>>>
>>> 3. RP3B+ with MPEG2 license.
>>>
>>> I would have guess before hand that the PC with the GT1030 would be
>>> the best, but it wasn't.
>>
>> Using DVB-T/T2 in the UK I find that the Leanfront on a 4K Firestick
>> is excellent when it works, but it still seems to need purely
>> progressive content and that often can't be guaranteed. I have
>> GT710s, which are less capable than your GT1030, and they lack
>> smoothness in panning when using nvdec hardware decoding. But with i5
>> 4-core 3 GHz software decoding, playback is as smooth as I get from
>> DLNA or the leanback on appropriate content. I haven't seen what
>> newer and cheaper devices can do, but I'm sceptical. I think you
>> ought to try software decoding on your i7.
>
> That worries me a little. I still have an old nvidia ION based frontend
> that seems to play everything I throw at it perfectly, but I'm still on
> v29 and using vdpau. I hope the rendering rewrite hasn't caused any
> regression.

No, this wasn't something that happened with the newer code. It's just
not like viewing an unchanging scene when a mask moves in front of it.
Shapes are slightly unstable. And everything is 25 Hz.
>
>> And I recently noticed that the leanfront seems to work well with live
>> DVB-T mpeg2 material, while recordings now have good audio but the
>> video pauses briefly about once a second and sync is terrible...
>
> That sounds like the TV being driven at the wrong frame rate, either a
> 24fps movies played with the TV running at 25fps or vice versa. I'm
> finding leanfront really very nice to use these days, but that is one
> constant pain, having to do the strange vulcan nerve pinch on the
> firestick control to get 24fps.

> Paul G.

Yes, for leanfront it might be partially a framerate problem. Firestick
is natively 60 Hz and the content is 25 Hz. My attempts at logging have
given only a few lines, unlike Yeechang's from his Shield. I'll look
out for more options. The 'live' behaviour came as a surprise.
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Re: frontend video smoothness [ In reply to ]

lists at glidos

May 19, 2020, 6:38 AM

Post #8 of 9 (1179 views)

Permalink

On 19/05/2020 12:08, John Pilkington wrote:
> On 19/05/2020 08:54, Paul Gardiner wrote:
>> On 18/05/2020 17:54, John Pilkington wrote:
>>> And I recently noticed that the leanfront seems to work well with
>>> live DVB-T mpeg2 material, while recordings now have good audio but
>>> the video pauses briefly about once a second and sync is terrible...
>>
>> That sounds like the TV being driven at the wrong frame rate, either a
>> 24fps movies played with the TV running at 25fps or vice versa. I'm
>> finding leanfront really very nice to use these days, but that is one
>> constant pain, having to do the strange vulcan nerve pinch on the
>> firestick control to get 24fps.
>
> > Paul G.
>
> Yes, for leanfront it might be partially a framerate problem. Firestick
> is natively 60 Hz and the content is 25 Hz. My attempts at logging have
> given only a few lines, unlike Yeechang's from his Shield. I'll look
> out for more options. The 'live' behaviour came as a surprise.

I just found a forum post suggesting that the Fire Stick 4K wrongly
switches 25fps content to 24fps:
https://www.amazonforum.com/s/question/0D54P00006zSzsmSAC/fire-tv-stick-4k-framerate-switching-faulty.
Perhaps the Shield does the same. That would certainly explain a tick
every second.

P.
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Re: frontend video smoothness [ In reply to ]

johnpilk222 at gmail

May 19, 2020, 2:20 PM

Post #9 of 9 (1169 views)

Permalink

On 19/05/2020 14:38, Paul Gardiner wrote:
> On 19/05/2020 12:08, John Pilkington wrote:
> > On 19/05/2020 08:54, Paul Gardiner wrote:
> >> On 18/05/2020 17:54, John Pilkington wrote:
> >>> And I recently noticed that the leanfront seems to work well with
> >>> live DVB-T mpeg2 material, while recordings now have good audio but
> >>> the video pauses briefly about once a second and sync is terrible...
> >>
> >> That sounds like the TV being driven at the wrong frame rate, either a
> >> 24fps movies played with the TV running at 25fps or vice versa. I'm
> >> finding leanfront really very nice to use these days, but that is one
> >> constant pain, having to do the strange vulcan nerve pinch on the
> >> firestick control to get 24fps.
> >
> > > Paul G.
> >
> > Yes, for leanfront it might be partially a framerate problem. Firestick
> > is natively 60 Hz and the content is 25 Hz. My attempts at logging have
> > given only a few lines, unlike Yeechang's from his Shield. I'll look
> > out for more options. The 'live' behaviour came as a surprise.
>
> I just found a forum post suggesting that the Fire Stick 4K wrongly
> switches 25fps content to 24fps:
> https://www.amazonforum.com/s/question/0D54P00006zSzsmSAC/fire-tv-stick-4k-framerate-switching-faulty.
> Perhaps the Shield does the same. That would certainly explain a tick
> every second.
>
> P.

Hmm. Interesting, but 9 months ago. It looks to me as if the firestick
4k leanfront-136 now plays mainstream SD channels well, both live or as
.ts recordings, but I routinely cut and convert most of those to .mpg
with stereo, and leanfront playback then has unsmooth or sometimes
frozen video. The link suggests that 'match original frame rate'
doesn't work for all kinds of input, and that could explain it.

John P

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