Mailing List Archive

Thank you for the feedback. My comments are below.

On 3/3/20 9:07 AM, Yeechang Lee wrote:
> Observations after using several Leanfront client versions including
> 108 on Nvidia Shield TV with 29 backend:
>
> * Some sort of progress/busy message would be welcome when refreshing
> lists. With 2600 recordings and however many more videos, refreshing
> takes about 30 seconds.
Good idea. i will look into that.
> * Supporting in-app voice search is excellent; it's amazing how few
> apps do so. I realize that you are using the existing Android
> functionality, which makes other software not doing so all the more
> inexplicable.
> * Android keycode MEDIA_STOP does nothing. I suggest it unconditionally exits
> playback.
What type of remote are you using? I have not done much to support other
than the basic keys. I don't know the best way to test this. There are
"android remote" apps for a phone but they also seem to only have the
basic keys.
> * Similarly, perhaps have MEDIA_PLAY and MEDIA_PLAY_PAUSE
> unconditionally start playback, as opposed to showing the "play from
> start/other actions" menu?
Another good suggestion - I will take a look.
> * Once you implement the equivalent of the mainline client's DEBUGOSD,
> can Android keycode INFO be used for this?
I have no plans to implement that. I don't know if those stats are
available from exoplayer. Also above comment about remote applies.
> * The jellyfish 400mbps and both 140mbps tests
> (<http://www.jell.yfish.us/>) all pause playback at 9-12 seconds
> in. Skipping forward and back allows playback to continue. There is
> no audio in the 400mbps and 140mbps h264 clips.
The android TV boxes seem to be optimized for hevc when using 4k. h264
with 4k does not work that well, especially in extreme conditions. At
any rate, I am only supporting what exoplayer supports.
> * The rounded MythTV logo the mainline Android client shows on opening
> would be preferable for the upper right corner to the one current
> used. Also as Leanfront's Android TV launcher icon, without the
> diagonal skew.
The skew in the launcher icon was so that if you have both mythfrontend
and leanfront installed you can see which is which. Perhaps there is a
better way to indicate it, but I am no expert at creating graphics.
> * No ability to "Scan For Changes" for videos. (I realize that
> Leanfront is for now meant to supplement the mainline client and is
> leveraging existing Android functionality as much as possible, but
> not being able to do so when "refreshing lists" does exist is
> confusing.) Perhaps invoke with Android keycode MENU?
>
The mythbackend api is short on methods related to videos. There are no
api calls for scanning videos, deleting videos or setting video
bookmarks. At some point I will look inot adding those to the backend,
but until then, leanfront cannot support those things.

Peter
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Peter Bennett says:
> > * Android keycode MEDIA_STOP does nothing. I suggest it
> > unconditionally exits playback.
> What type of remote are you using? I have not done much to support
> other than the basic keys. I don't know the best way to test
> this. There are "android remote" apps for a phone but they also seem
> to only have the basic keys.

I am using the same MX-500/600 universal remote I used with my old
frontend, but with Flirc on Shield TV. I programmed Flirc to generate
the mentioned Android keycodes; rather, I programmed Flirc to generate
Windows media keys, which Android interprets as the matching Android
keycodes.

While the mainstream Android-box remotes (Shield TV, Fire TV) indeed
slavishly follow Apple's misguided ultra-minimalism and don't have
STOP and PLAY (as opposed to PLAY/PAUSE) buttons, third-party remotes
do; an example is the WeChip G30
(<https://www.amazon.com/WeChip-Remote-Wireless-Control-Sensing/dp/B07TF698DF/>),
explicitly supported by Shield TV. Logitech Harmony is another, I
believe (it has the physical buttons, at least).

> > * Once you implement the equivalent of the mainline client's
> > DEBUGOSD, can Android keycode INFO be used for this?
> I have no plans to implement that. I don't know if those stats are
> available from exoplayer. Also above comment about remote applies.

Understood. Can you at least have the OSD pop up when INFO is pushed?
I know it's available with DPAD_CENTER, but I'm still too used to
being able to pop it up in Mythfrontend with the Info button on my
remote, which I have again programmed to generate INFO in Android TV.

> The android TV boxes seem to be optimized for hevc when using
> 4k. h264 with 4k does not work that well, especially in extreme
> conditions. At any rate, I am only supporting what exoplayer
> supports.

The 400mbps clip and the other 140mbps clip are HEVC. I figured that
you are piggybacking off the built-in Android playback support, so I
guess it must be the cause of the aforementioned playback and audio
failures.

> The skew in the launcher icon was so that if you have both mythfrontend
> and leanfront installed you can see which is which. Perhaps there is a
> better way to indicate it, but I am no expert at creating graphics.

Sorry, I'd forgotten that the mainline client already uses the rounded
logo. I'm sure that someone will contribute something more attractive
for Leanfront.

--
Frontend: Apple MacBook Pro 2012, Nvidia Shield 2017
Backend: HP Microserver N40L 1.5GHz with 4x3TB HDDs
Tuners: Two over-the-air ATSC inputs with multirec
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Hi Yeechang. Thank you for your suggestions, some of which I have
implemented.

On 3/3/20 9:07 AM, Yeechang Lee wrote:
> Observations after using several Leanfront client versions including
> 108 on Nvidia Shield TV with 29 backend:
>
> * Some sort of progress/busy message would be welcome when refreshing
> lists. With 2600 recordings and however many more videos, refreshing
> takes about 30 seconds.
Done. Circling progress indicator will show when refreshing with refresh
button, but not when automatically refreshing for any reason.
> * Supporting in-app voice search is excellent; it's amazing how few
> apps do so. I realize that you are using the existing Android
> functionality, which makes other software not doing so all the more
> inexplicable.
> * Android keycode MEDIA_STOP does nothing. I suggest it unconditionally exits
> playback.
Done
> * Similarly, perhaps have MEDIA_PLAY and MEDIA_PLAY_PAUSE
> unconditionally start playback, as opposed to showing the "play from
> start/other actions" menu?
Done. Also a bunch of other media keys are now supported, see the list
in
https://github.com/bennettpeter/android-MythTV-Leanfront/blob/master/README.md
(Remote Control)
>

Let me know if there is any other feedback, or if any of these changes
do not work as expected.

Peter
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Peter Bennett says:
> > * Some sort of progress/busy message would be welcome when refreshing
> > lists. With 2600 recordings and however many more videos,
> > refreshing takes about 30 seconds.
> Done. Circling progress indicator will show when refreshing with
> refresh button, but not when automatically refreshing for any
> reason.

I would implement the progress indicator for automatic refreshes. It
was disconcerting to start Leanfront my first time and have to wait
for 30 seconds not knowing whether app was working. If you prefer to
keep the two experiences separate, a "Starting..." message or
something similar would work.

> > * Similarly, perhaps have MEDIA_PLAY and MEDIA_PLAY_PAUSE
> > unconditionally start playback, as opposed to showing the "play
> > from start/other actions" menu?
> Done. Also a bunch of other media keys are now supported, see the
> list in
> https://github.com/bennettpeter/android-MythTV-Leanfront/blob/master/README.md

Thank you. Leanfront may now have more support for media keys than any
other Android app!

--
Frontend: Apple MacBook Pro 2012, Nvidia Shield 2017
Backend: HP Microserver N40L 1.5GHz with 4x3TB HDDs
Tuners: Two over-the-air ATSC inputs with multirec
--
Frontend: Apple MacBook Pro 2012, Nvidia Shield 2017
Backend: HP Microserver N40L 1.5GHz with 4x3TB HDDs
Tuners: Two over-the-air ATSC inputs with multirec
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On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 3:54 PM Peter Bennett <pb.mythtv@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Thank you for the feedback. My comments are below.
>
> On 3/3/20 9:07 AM, Yeechang Lee wrote:
> > Observations after using several Leanfront client versions including
> > 108 on Nvidia Shield TV with 29 backend:
> >
> > * Some sort of progress/busy message would be welcome when refreshing
> > lists. With 2600 recordings and however many more videos, refreshing
> > takes about 30 seconds.
> Good idea. i will look into that.
> > * Supporting in-app voice search is excellent; it's amazing how few
> > apps do so. I realize that you are using the existing Android
> > functionality, which makes other software not doing so all the more
> > inexplicable.
> > * Android keycode MEDIA_STOP does nothing. I suggest it unconditionally
> exits
> > playback.
> What type of remote are you using? I have not done much to support other
> than the basic keys. I don't know the best way to test this. There are
> "android remote" apps for a phone but they also seem to only have the
> basic keys.
> > * Similarly, perhaps have MEDIA_PLAY and MEDIA_PLAY_PAUSE
> > unconditionally start playback, as opposed to showing the "play from
> > start/other actions" menu?
> Another good suggestion - I will take a look.
> > * Once you implement the equivalent of the mainline client's DEBUGOSD,
> > can Android keycode INFO be used for this?
> I have no plans to implement that. I don't know if those stats are
> available from exoplayer. Also above comment about remote applies.
> > * The jellyfish 400mbps and both 140mbps tests
> > (<http://www.jell.yfish.us/>) all pause playback at 9-12 seconds
> > in. Skipping forward and back allows playback to continue. There is
> > no audio in the 400mbps and 140mbps h264 clips.
> The android TV boxes seem to be optimized for hevc when using 4k. h264
> with 4k does not work that well, especially in extreme conditions. At
> any rate, I am only supporting what exoplayer supports.
> > * The rounded MythTV logo the mainline Android client shows on opening
> > would be preferable for the upper right corner to the one current
> > used. Also as Leanfront's Android TV launcher icon, without the
> > diagonal skew.
> The skew in the launcher icon was so that if you have both mythfrontend
> and leanfront installed you can see which is which. Perhaps there is a
> better way to indicate it, but I am no expert at creating graphics.
> > * No ability to "Scan For Changes" for videos. (I realize that
> > Leanfront is for now meant to supplement the mainline client and is
> > leveraging existing Android functionality as much as possible, but
> > not being able to do so when "refreshing lists" does exist is
> > confusing.) Perhaps invoke with Android keycode MENU?
> >
> The mythbackend api is short on methods related to videos. There are no
> api calls for scanning videos, deleting videos or setting video
> bookmarks. At some point I will look inot adding those to the backend,
> but until then, leanfront cannot support those things.
>
> Peter
>

Peter,

I got around to installing Leanfront on my Shield. I have to say this app
is very impressive! Great job!

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>

On 4/22/20 5:06 PM, Larry Kennedy wrote:
> Peter,
>
> I got around to installing Leanfront on my Shield.  I have to say this
> app is very impressive!  Great job!
>

Thanks for the kind words.

Note - the documentation mentions LiveTV. Thai is not yet in the apk
release. I am doing some final testing on that before releasing an apk
with LiveTV support in the next couple of days.

Peter
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> On Apr 22, 2020, at 5:52 PM, Peter Bennett <pb.mythtv@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On 4/22/20 5:06 PM, Larry Kennedy wrote:
>> Peter,
>>
>> I got around to installing Leanfront on my Shield. I have to say this app is very impressive! Great job!
>>
>
> Thanks for the kind words.
>
> Note - the documentation mentions LiveTV. Thai is not yet in the apk release. I am doing some final testing on that before releasing an apk with LiveTV support in the next couple of days.
>
> Peter

I agree with the praise for Leanfront. My wife and I are using it for 90% of our Mythtv activity. Basically all my wife’s viewing is Leanfront and I use it except for Video editing and schedule management.

Leanfront is definitely the best video quality on Shield TV and FireTV 4K; with the Shield TV being better than the FireTV 4k. Both mythtv-frontend and leanfront have very good video quality, but Leanfront is the smoothest, and doesn’t suffer the timeline problems that happen 10-15 minutes into a playback like Android mythfrontend.

Jim A


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On 4/23/20 6:38 AM, James Abernathy wrote:
>
>> On Apr 22, 2020, at 5:52 PM, Peter Bennett <pb.mythtv@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On 4/22/20 5:06 PM, Larry Kennedy wrote:
>>> Peter,
>>>
>>> I got around to installing Leanfront on my Shield. I have to say this app is very impressive! Great job!
>>>
>>
>> Thanks for the kind words.
>>
>> Note - the documentation mentions LiveTV. Thai is not yet in the apk release. I am doing some final testing on that before releasing an apk with LiveTV support in the next couple of days.
>>
>> Peter
>
> I agree with the praise for Leanfront. My wife and I are using it for 90% of our Mythtv activity. Basically all my wife’s viewing is Leanfront and I use it except for Video editing and schedule management.
>
> Leanfront is definitely the best video quality on Shield TV and FireTV 4K; with the Shield TV being better than the FireTV 4k. Both mythtv-frontend and leanfront have very good video quality, but Leanfront is the smoothest, and doesn’t suffer the timeline problems that happen 10-15 minutes into a playback like Android mythfrontend.
>
> Jim A
>

In concept, it is a nice start and has great promise. I think it has a
lot of merit simplifying what the frontend is. I also think that as
various streaming services have come to be and the explosion of various
tv based apps since MythTV strived to be the "mythical convergence",
that streaming boxes have become what MythTV tried to be. The vision
was right on about where things would go. Some things just got done
better by other developers (many of which are paid). Myth's DVR is
still unrivaled. And I think that is mostly thanks to the scheduler.
Other things like unlimited storage space, being able to add as many
tuners as you desire and not having strict expiration timers are also
great benefits.

I see a Myth Recordings frontend sitting on a box like the Shield as the
best solution today. Music is best served by a myriad of other apps.
Plex (if you don't mind a centralized database knowing what movies you
have) or Jellyfish are doing movie collections better. Lots of other
better solutions for viewing your photo collections on a tv. Then all
the streaming services offering tons of content. Myth's advantage for
all features is privacy. Ultimately, I see DVRs dying as people
subscribe to streaming services with all the content available on
demand. I'm guessing I'll be migrated from a typical cable service
within the next three years depending on how the broadcast tv industry
evolves. Recordings played through Myth still have advantages over
network streaming apps at this time. ATSC 3.0 OTA might throw a curve
ball in there as well with some of it's features.


Unfortunately, like every other API based client I've tried, the lean
frontend suffers from being painfully slow loading/sorting recording
data. Until the API has a paging method (or some other scheme for
clients to asynchronously retrieve data in chunks) to retrieve recording
data, I don't see any API based frontend being a good user experience
for people with a lot of recordings. A database native frontend is near
instant loading while I've waited 10s of seconds for API based ones.
Hopefully Peter's work on this frontend will provide some visibility in
to API weaknesses (and create an itch for someone with spare time to
improve it).


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On 4/23/20 2:30 PM, BP wrote:
> Unfortunately, like every other API based client I've tried, the lean
> frontend suffers from being painfully slow loading/sorting recording
> data. Until the API has a paging method (or some other scheme for
> clients to asynchronously retrieve data in chunks) to retrieve
> recording data, I don't see any API based frontend being a good user
> experience for people with a lot of recordings.  A database native
> frontend is near instant loading while I've waited 10s of seconds for
> API based ones. Hopefully Peter's work on this frontend will provide
> some visibility in to API weaknesses (and create an itch for someone
> with spare time to improve it).

The API does have the ability to retrieve recordings in chunks of any
number at a time. You can tell it how many at a time to retrieve. I have
not used this feature. Obviously that makes the code more complex.

How many recordings do you have and what is the sort of timing you get?

In my experience, mythfrontend itself takes a really long time to start.
With android, the splash screen shows for a long time  I get a quicker
load time from leanfront.

I just ran a couple of timing tests, on a fire stick 4k.

I have 921 recordings and 432 videos. Leanfront opened and loaded the
programs and videos in 7 seconds. mythfrontend took 18 seconds to open,
then 2 seconds to load the program list, after selecting it from the menu.

Unfortunately, leanfront does not dynamically update, so you have to
refresh the list if there are changes.

The main impetus behind leanfront was to give the best playback,
including playback of 4K videos and recordings.

Peter
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On 4/23/20 1:02 PM, Peter Bennett wrote:
>
>

>
> The API does have the ability to retrieve recordings in chunks of any
> number at a time. You can tell it how many at a time to retrieve. I have
> not used this feature. Obviously that makes the code more complex.
>
> How many recordings do you have and what is the sort of timing you get?
>

I'm currently at 7663 recordings. It's easier to buy a new hard drive
than to decide that something I thought might be interesting years ago
and have yet to watch should be deleted.

Starting the Lean frontend, takes 33 seconds to load. If I change the
sort method, it runs 45 seconds then crashes (I'm on a version from a
couple weeks ago). Opening the app again with the changed sort
configuration is in the same 33 second time frame.

The full Android frontend takes 12 seconds to load and 3 seconds to load
recorded program data for a total of about 15 seconds.

Times for both were consistent over 5 attempts.

My Shield is the 2017 version and on wired gigabit.


>
> The main impetus behind leanfront was to give the best playback,
> including playback of 4K videos and recordings.
>

Playback is great. I definitely see the leanfront going in the right
direction for most of what I need a frontend for. I do all my
scheduling through Mythweb and don't use livetv. Livetv is for
background noise and the cable box does that well. Everything else I
used to use Myth frontend for has migrated to other apps. Once the new
2019 Shield Pros are plentiful enough to find for sale, I'll likely
ditch my last remaining computer based frontend. I'm curious to see how
well the AI upscaling works with recordings.

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On Thu, 2020-04-23 at 15:56 -0700, BP wrote:
> On 4/23/20 1:02 PM, Peter Bennett wrote:
> > The API does have the ability to retrieve recordings in chunks of
> > any number at a time. You can tell it how many at a time to
> > retrieve. I have not used this feature. Obviously that makes the
> > code more complex.
> > How many recordings do you have and what is the sort of timing you
> > get?
>
> I'm currently at 7663 recordings. It's easier to buy a new hard
> drive than to decide that something I thought might be interesting
> years ago and have yet to watch should be deleted.
> Starting the Lean frontend, takes 33 seconds to load. If I change
> the sort method, it runs 45 seconds then crashes (I'm on a version
> from a couple weeks ago). Opening the app again with the changed
> sort configuration is in the same 33 second time frame.
> The full Android frontend takes 12 seconds to load and 3 seconds to
> load recorded program data for a total of about 15 seconds.
> Times for both were consistent over 5 attempts.
> My Shield is the 2017 version and on wired gigabit.
>
> > The main impetus behind leanfront was to give the best playback,
> > including playback of 4K videos and recordings.
>
> Playback is great. I definitely see the leanfront going in the right
> direction for most of what I need a frontend for. I do all my
> scheduling through Mythweb and don't use livetv. Livetv is for
> background noise and the cable box does that well. Everything else I
> used to use Myth frontend for has migrated to other apps. Once the
> new 2019 Shield Pros are plentiful enough to find for sale, I'll
> likely ditch my last remaining computer based frontend. I'm curious
> to see how well the AI upscaling works with recordings.
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with regard to 2019 shield a/i upscaling. for me on ota content and
firewire and hdpvr recorded content, i get message. 'AI enchanced not
active: unsupported content' on both leanback and frontend android, the
ai definitely does not work on 59.94 frameratesand i assume not on
interlaced content either. it works great on 30fps content or less that
is progressive.(something like a transcoded film). it will also work
with one my iptv tuners when the framerate is 30 or under.
but i would still highly recommend the new shield, its faster and to me
smoother than the previous hardware. i too join in that i really enjoy
and appreciate the leanback. the playback is really great and breathes
new lifeand options to mythtv. thank you Peter!

On Thu, 23 Apr 2020 16:02:56 -0400, you wrote:

>I have 921 recordings and 432 videos. Leanfront opened and loaded the
>programs and videos in 7 seconds. mythfrontend took 18 seconds to open,
>then 2 seconds to load the program list, after selecting it from the menu.

Just to give you an idea of the potential magnitude of the problems
here, my backend currently has 39,418 recordings. Like BP, I tend to
just add another drive when I run out of space, so I now have 7
recording drives and 5 normally offline archive drives. And I have 4
videos drives with 56,746 video files.

Loading the recordings list in mythfrontend on my backend box takes
about 9 seconds, when everything is cached. It takes longer when the
drives need to be spun up and the directories read to get the image
files.

Loading the videos in mythfrontend takes so long that I normally go
away and do something else while it happens. I am not using storage
groups for the videos, as I have quite a number of files that
mythfrontend will not play properly and I need to use an alternate
video player (myplayer) with them. So the videos come from the old
frontend list of directories.

I am not using leanfront though, as I have no need for any new
frontends - my laptop is all I need for a remote frontend.
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