Mailing List Archive

New frequency for NY NBC OTA channel 4
I just found out the hard way that apparently NY NBC channel 4
apparently changed frequency on April 1.

I'd love to be able to just find out what the new frequency is and to
possible change it in the database. I HATE scanning for channels
frankly. For one thing I have a bunch of disabled Philadelphia
channels that I need to keep, but which can't be picked up without
turning my antenna, and among other things I do NOT want it to delete
any of those.

I've never been comfortable doing that channel scan. Frankly it about
gives me a heart attack. It's NEVER clear as to what it's going to do
etc and I always have visions of needing to restore my database. In
the past I've had it arbitrarily rename all my channels from using the
dot I have now (for example 4.1) to dashes (4-1). If I recall
correctly there used to be some option for that but I'm not sure there
is any longer. I haven't needed to rescan much at all in the 10+ years
I've been using MythTV. Maybe it's just me, but doing so seems to have
been more harrowing every time I've done it.

If I could find what the new frequency is I could probably change it
manually. I can't find anything anywhere except the fact that it
changed. As far as I'm aware in MythTV that's just based on this:

select chanid, channum, mplexid from channel where channum like '4.%'

+--------+---------+---------+
| chanid | channum | mplexid |
+--------+---------+---------+
| 1041 | 4.1 | 3 |
| 1042 | 4.2 | 3 |
| 1044 | 4.4 | 3 |
+--------+---------+---------+

select * from dtv_multiplex where mplexid=3

*************************** 1. row ***************************
mplexid: 3
sourceid: 1
transportid: NULL
networkid: NULL
frequency: 557000000
inversion: NULL
symbolrate: NULL
fec: NULL
polarity: NULL
modulation: 8vsb
bandwidth: NULL
lp_code_rate: NULL
transmission_mode: NULL
guard_interval: NULL
visible: 0
constellation: NULL
hierarchy: NULL
hp_code_rate: NULL
mod_sys: 1
rolloff: NULL
sistandard: atsc
serviceversion: 33
updatetimestamp: 2007-05-02 12:38:30
default_authority:
1 row in set (0.00 sec)

Any advise would be appreciated. Thanks!
Tom
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Re: New frequency for NY NBC OTA channel 4 [ In reply to ]
On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 8:26 PM, Tom Dexter <digitalaudiorock@gmail.com> wrote:
> I just found out the hard way that apparently NY NBC channel 4
> apparently changed frequency on April 1.
>
>...snip
>
> I've never been comfortable doing that channel scan. Frankly it about
> gives me a heart attack. It's NEVER clear as to what it's going to do
> etc and I always have visions of needing to restore my database. In
> the past I've had it arbitrarily rename all my channels from using the
> dot I have now (for example 4.1) to dashes (4-1). If I recall
> correctly there used to be some option for that but I'm not sure there
> is any longer. I haven't needed to rescan much at all in the 10+ years
> I've been using MythTV. Maybe it's just me, but doing so seems to have
> been more harrowing every time I've done it.
>

I was just looking and recalled this mess I had years back:

https://lists.gt.net/mythtv/users/571152

I'm hoping to avoid messes like that.

If someone can at least clear me up on the various prompts in the
rescan it'd help me a lot. I think, if I can recall, it tells you
about channels that have changed, channels that have been added, and
channels that have gone away. I've never seen any of this documented
clearly anywhere. If I'm wrong on that please let me know where it is.
It's always been a total mystery to me.

I can't recall the options it gives you but I recall them being
extremely unclear. There's an "ignore all" and a "delete all" and I
believe a "hide all"(?). I'm assuming that the hide simply marks those
channels as hidden(?). I'm most concerned about the delete. I would
assume that would delete those channels, but I've read things
indicating that delete just deletes them from the scan(?). That's the
one I'm most concerned about as it could delete my Philadelphia
stations, which I do use on rare occasions (Philly NFL games for
example). If I recall, some, but not all of those steps have an option
to manually deal with them one at a time, which would probably be
ideal. Maybe I'm just best off letting add, change, and update
everything just to be clean. If I loose my Philly stations I can deal
with that later I suppose.

Thanks in advance if anyone understands this better than I.

Tom
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Re: New frequency for NY NBC OTA channel 4 [ In reply to ]
On Mon, 2 Apr 2018 20:26:35 -0400, you wrote:

>I just found out the hard way that apparently NY NBC channel 4
>apparently changed frequency on April 1.
>
>I'd love to be able to just find out what the new frequency is and to
>possible change it in the database. I HATE scanning for channels
>frankly. For one thing I have a bunch of disabled Philadelphia
>channels that I need to keep, but which can't be picked up without
>turning my antenna, and among other things I do NOT want it to delete
>any of those.
>
>I've never been comfortable doing that channel scan. Frankly it about
>gives me a heart attack. It's NEVER clear as to what it's going to do
>etc and I always have visions of needing to restore my database. In
>the past I've had it arbitrarily rename all my channels from using the
>dot I have now (for example 4.1) to dashes (4-1). If I recall
>correctly there used to be some option for that but I'm not sure there
>is any longer. I haven't needed to rescan much at all in the 10+ years
>I've been using MythTV. Maybe it's just me, but doing so seems to have
>been more harrowing every time I've done it.
>
>If I could find what the new frequency is I could probably change it
>manually. I can't find anything anywhere except the fact that it
>changed. As far as I'm aware in MythTV that's just based on this:
>
>select chanid, channum, mplexid from channel where channum like '4.%'
>
>+--------+---------+---------+
>| chanid | channum | mplexid |
>+--------+---------+---------+
>| 1041 | 4.1 | 3 |
>| 1042 | 4.2 | 3 |
>| 1044 | 4.4 | 3 |
>+--------+---------+---------+
>
>select * from dtv_multiplex where mplexid=3
>
>*************************** 1. row ***************************
> mplexid: 3
> sourceid: 1
> transportid: NULL
> networkid: NULL
> frequency: 557000000
> inversion: NULL
> symbolrate: NULL
> fec: NULL
> polarity: NULL
> modulation: 8vsb
> bandwidth: NULL
> lp_code_rate: NULL
>transmission_mode: NULL
> guard_interval: NULL
> visible: 0
> constellation: NULL
> hierarchy: NULL
> hp_code_rate: NULL
> mod_sys: 1
> rolloff: NULL
> sistandard: atsc
> serviceversion: 33
> updatetimestamp: 2007-05-02 12:38:30
>default_authority:
>1 row in set (0.00 sec)
>
>Any advise would be appreciated. Thanks!
>Tom

You should be able to find the new frequency by doing a scan using the
command line tools. I have scripts that do that for me. Then I
manually adjust the database from my Windows box using the nice
HeidiSQL program. I would presume that the command line tools would
work with ATSC tuners just as they do with DVB ones. However, if you
are using network tuners, you would need to have a tool that scanned
them and gave you the right information.

Here is the script I use for scanning my DVB-T tuners
(FreeviewHD-scan.sh):

#!/bin/bash

# Scan all Freeview DVB-T frequencies for channel information.

# DVB-T multiplex frequencies (kHz)
declare -a DVB_T_FREQS=(530000 562000 578000 594000 610000)
declare -a FREQS=${DVB_T_FREQS[*]}

# Adapter number of DVB-T card.
DEFAULT_ADAPTER=17

# Number of times to try a scan of a frequency when a scan fails
NUM_TRIES=5

# Output file to store the results of the scan.
OUTPUT_FILE=FreeviewHD_scan.txt

./rotate.sh $OUTPUT_FILE

#if [ -e "$OUTPUT_FILE" ] && [ -f "$OUTPUT_FILE" ] ; then
# rm "$OUTPUT_FILE"
#fi

if [ "$1" != "" ]; then
ADAPTER=$1
else
ADAPTER=$DEFAULT_ADAPTER
fi

for a in ${FREQS[*]}; do
echo "[[Tuning to $a Hz]]" | tee -a "$OUTPUT_FILE"
tries=$NUM_TRIES
while [ $tries -ne 0 ]; do
let tries-=1
dvbtune -f $a -qam 64 -gi 16 -cr 3_4 -bw 8 -tm 8 -m -c
$ADAPTER 2>&1 >/dev/nul &
DVBTUNE_PID=$!
sleep 1
scan-s2 -c -q -o vdr -x -2 -t 7 -a $ADAPTER | tee -a
$OUTPUT_FILE
rc=${PIPESTATUS:0}
kill $DVBTUNE_PID >/dev/nul
if [ $rc -eq 0 ]; then
break
fi
done
done

And here is the supporting rotate.sh file:

#!/bin/sh
#http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3690936/change-file-name-suffixes-using-sed/3691279#3691279

## Move "$1.$2" to "$1.$(($2+1))", first rotating the target as well.
rotate () {
if [ -e "$1.$(($2+1))" ]; then rotate "$1" $(($2+1)); fi
mv -- "$1.$2" "$1.$(($2+1))"
}

for x; do
## Break each argument into FILE.NUMBER or just FILE.
suffix=${x##*.}
case $suffix in
*[!0-9]*)
if [ -e "$x.0" ]; then rotate "$x" 0; fi
mv -- "$x" "$x.0";;
*) rotate "${x%.*}" "$suffix";;
esac
done


You would need to adjust the script to tune your ATSC tuner. And the
scan-s2 program I am using is from the TBS drivers. The source code
is available if you download their proprietary drivers for the TBS9522
tuner. I think I had to adjust the code to make it work with tuner
numbers > 9, but that should not affect you. If you are using Ubuntu
16.04 or a relative of it, I have put the scan-s2 executable on my web
server - it works with later Ubuntu versions too:

http:/www.jsw.gen.nz/mythtv/scan-s2

To get the frequencies you need for the script, try this SQL:

select mplexid,sourceid,transportid,networkid,frequency from
dtv_multiplex order by frequency;

However, if the channel is now on a new multiplex, then you will need
to find out the frequency for that from some other source. w_scan is
able to do blind scans, but I do not know if it supports ATSC. You
could try scanning from what looks to be the full list of all ATSC
frequencies in this file (on Mythbuntu 16.04):

/usr/share/dvb/atsc/us-ATSC-center-frequencies-8VSB
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Re: New frequency for NY NBC OTA channel 4 [ In reply to ]
On 03/04/18 03:02, Tom Dexter wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 8:26 PM, Tom Dexter <digitalaudiorock@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I just found out the hard way that apparently NY NBC channel 4
>> apparently changed frequency on April 1.
>>
>> ...snip
>>
>> I've never been comfortable doing that channel scan. Frankly it about
>> gives me a heart attack. It's NEVER clear as to what it's going to do
>> etc and I always have visions of needing to restore my database. In
>> the past I've had it arbitrarily rename all my channels from using the
>> dot I have now (for example 4.1) to dashes (4-1). If I recall
>> correctly there used to be some option for that but I'm not sure there
>> is any longer. I haven't needed to rescan much at all in the 10+ years
>> I've been using MythTV. Maybe it's just me, but doing so seems to have
>> been more harrowing every time I've done it.
>>
>
> I was just looking and recalled this mess I had years back:
>
> https://lists.gt.net/mythtv/users/571152
>
> I'm hoping to avoid messes like that.
>
> If someone can at least clear me up on the various prompts in the
> rescan it'd help me a lot. I think, if I can recall, it tells you
> about channels that have changed, channels that have been added, and
> channels that have gone away. I've never seen any of this documented
> clearly anywhere. If I'm wrong on that please let me know where it is.
> It's always been a total mystery to me.
>
> I can't recall the options it gives you but I recall them being
> extremely unclear. There's an "ignore all" and a "delete all" and I
> believe a "hide all"(?). I'm assuming that the hide simply marks those
> channels as hidden(?). I'm most concerned about the delete. I would
> assume that would delete those channels, but I've read things
> indicating that delete just deletes them from the scan(?). That's the
> one I'm most concerned about as it could delete my Philadelphia
> stations, which I do use on rare occasions (Philly NFL games for
> example). If I recall, some, but not all of those steps have an option
> to manually deal with them one at a time, which would probably be
> ideal. Maybe I'm just best off letting add, change, and update
> everything just to be clean. If I loose my Philly stations I can deal
> with that later I suppose.
>
> Thanks in advance if anyone understands this better than I.
>
> Tom

I just googled 'tv broadcast frequencies NYC changes 2018' and got
several hits, although real numbers seem well buried. 'fcc repack' might
be a good phrase.

If you find the new frequency, mythtv-setup has a 'Transport editor'
that should let you enter that and rescan only multiplexes that you have
lost; but of course the menus we see are likely to be different.

HTH

John P




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Re: New frequency for NY NBC OTA channel 4 [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 4:06 AM, John Pilkington <J.Pilk@tesco.net> wrote:
> On 03/04/18 03:02, Tom Dexter wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 8:26 PM, Tom Dexter <digitalaudiorock@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I just found out the hard way that apparently NY NBC channel 4
>>> apparently changed frequency on April 1.
>>>
>>> ...snip
>>>
>>> I've never been comfortable doing that channel scan. Frankly it about
>>> gives me a heart attack. It's NEVER clear as to what it's going to do
>>> etc and I always have visions of needing to restore my database. In
>>> the past I've had it arbitrarily rename all my channels from using the
>>> dot I have now (for example 4.1) to dashes (4-1). If I recall
>>> correctly there used to be some option for that but I'm not sure there
>>> is any longer. I haven't needed to rescan much at all in the 10+ years
>>> I've been using MythTV. Maybe it's just me, but doing so seems to have
>>> been more harrowing every time I've done it.
>>>
>>
>> I was just looking and recalled this mess I had years back:
>>
>> https://lists.gt.net/mythtv/users/571152
>>
>> I'm hoping to avoid messes like that.
>>
>> If someone can at least clear me up on the various prompts in the
>> rescan it'd help me a lot. I think, if I can recall, it tells you
>> about channels that have changed, channels that have been added, and
>> channels that have gone away. I've never seen any of this documented
>> clearly anywhere. If I'm wrong on that please let me know where it is.
>> It's always been a total mystery to me.
>>
>> I can't recall the options it gives you but I recall them being
>> extremely unclear. There's an "ignore all" and a "delete all" and I
>> believe a "hide all"(?). I'm assuming that the hide simply marks those
>> channels as hidden(?). I'm most concerned about the delete. I would
>> assume that would delete those channels, but I've read things
>> indicating that delete just deletes them from the scan(?). That's the
>> one I'm most concerned about as it could delete my Philadelphia
>> stations, which I do use on rare occasions (Philly NFL games for
>> example). If I recall, some, but not all of those steps have an option
>> to manually deal with them one at a time, which would probably be
>> ideal. Maybe I'm just best off letting add, change, and update
>> everything just to be clean. If I loose my Philly stations I can deal
>> with that later I suppose.
>>
>> Thanks in advance if anyone understands this better than I.
>>
>> Tom
>
>
> I just googled 'tv broadcast frequencies NYC changes 2018' and got several
> hits, although real numbers seem well buried. 'fcc repack' might be a good
> phrase.
>
> If you find the new frequency, mythtv-setup has a 'Transport editor' that
> should let you enter that and rescan only multiplexes that you have lost;
> but of course the menus we see are likely to be different.
>
> HTH
>
> John P
>

Thanks for all the replies! I think that using Stephen's scripts is a
little more than I want to take on. Also, I have a feeling that the
new frequency may actually be an entirely new transport. Given all
that, here's what I think I'm going to do: Looking at this:

https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Command_Line_Channel_Scanner

I should be able to run the following (where the 1 is the cardid of my
first capturecard:

mythtv-setup --scan atsc-vsb8-us 1 --scan-save-only

As far as I can tell, that just loads the scan data into these three
tables (which can be imported later):

channelscan
channelscan_channel
channelscan_dtv_multiplex

That at least gives me a very benign way of seeing what the scan would
actually do, and I can take it from there.

Thanks!
Tom
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Re: New frequency for NY NBC OTA channel 4 [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 12:26 AM, Tom Dexter <digitalaudiorock@gmail.com> wrote:
> I just found out the hard way that apparently NY NBC channel 4
> apparently changed frequency on April 1.

FWIW (not a lot for those impacted) many broadcasters
in many markets will be changing their frequencies
as part of the realignments under the results of FCC
auction 1000 (1001/1002). The (rough) schedule for
many broadcasters (based on requirements for the
transition) can be found at:
https://www.fcc.gov/about-fcc/fcc-initiatives/incentive-auctions/transition-schedule
with the dates for each station can be found at:
http://data.fcc.gov/download/incentive-auctions/Transition_Files/Phase_Assignment_Closing_PN.csv

So, for those that want to create there own calendar
reminder for when to check with their local stations
(most stations will tend to have *their* specific
schedule on their web sites as the date(s) approach),
go look at the list(s).


In the case of the NBC OTA channel, they made the
deadline with almost two weeks to spare (for lots of
good (and bad) reasons, picking a weekend day is
likely better than the middle of the week).
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Re: New frequency for NY NBC OTA channel 4 [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 3:17 PM, Gary Buhrmaster
<gary.buhrmaster@gmail.com> wrote:

> In the case of the NBC OTA channel, they made the
> deadline with almost two weeks to spare (for lots of
> good (and bad) reasons, picking a weekend day is
> likely better than the middle of the week).

Sorry, wrong date. NYC NBC was not a frequency change,
it was a "go off the air on the current frequency (and
move to sharing the transmitter of another station)"
change. Those have to be completed before those
that are going to move into those frequencies can do
so.

In any case, lots of changes over the next few years.
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Re: New frequency for NY NBC OTA channel 4 [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 11:21 AM, Gary Buhrmaster
<gary.buhrmaster@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 3:17 PM, Gary Buhrmaster
> <gary.buhrmaster@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> In the case of the NBC OTA channel, they made the
>> deadline with almost two weeks to spare (for lots of
>> good (and bad) reasons, picking a weekend day is
>> likely better than the middle of the week).
>
> Sorry, wrong date. NYC NBC was not a frequency change,
> it was a "go off the air on the current frequency (and
> move to sharing the transmitter of another station)"
> change. Those have to be completed before those
> that are going to move into those frequencies can do
> so.
>
> In any case, lots of changes over the next few years.

Thanks for the explanations. Confusing as hell.

Maybe someone can help me as to what the correct syntax is for the
mythtv-setup --scan. I was basing it on this:

https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Command_Line_Channel_Scanner

I can list the cardids with this:

mythtv-setup --scan atsc-vsb8-us
2018-04-03 11:28:40.404904 C mythtv-setup version: fixes/29
[v29.1-60e40b352ab95a135ec2ab8f9f1ee93b4f9d245e] www.mythtv.org
2018-04-03 11:28:40.404933 C Qt version: compile: 5.7.1, runtime: 5.7.1
You must enter a valid cardid to scan.
Valid cards:
1: HDHOMERUN 1046A151-0
2: HDHOMERUN 1046A151-0
3: HDHOMERUN 1046A151-1
4: HDHOMERUN 1046A151-1
5: HDHOMERUN 104A8F21-0
6: HDHOMERUN 104A8F21-0
7: HDHOMERUN 104A8F21-1
8: HDHOMERUN 104A8F21-1
9: DVB /dev/dvb/adapter0/frontend0
10: DVB /dev/dvb/adapter0/frontend0

But adding the cardid doens't work:

mythtv-setup --scan atsc-vsb8-us 1
Received '1' but unassociated arguments have not been enabled

...which is followed by the syntax help. I don't get it. What is that
looking for? That page seems to indicate that it wants an input name.
I know that cardinput is no longer used. I'm just not getting it.

Anyone have any ideas? This channel scanning has always scared the
shit out of me.

Tom
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Re: New frequency for NY NBC OTA channel 4 [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 10:40 AM, Tom Dexter <digitalaudiorock@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 4:06 AM, John Pilkington <J.Pilk@tesco.net> wrote:
>> On 03/04/18 03:02, Tom Dexter wrote:
>>>
>
> Thanks for all the replies! I think that using Stephen's scripts is a
> little more than I want to take on. Also, I have a feeling that the
> new frequency may actually be an entirely new transport. Given all
> that, here's what I think I'm going to do: Looking at this:
>
> https://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Command_Line_Channel_Scanner
>
> I should be able to run the following (where the 1 is the cardid of my
> first capturecard:
>
> mythtv-setup --scan atsc-vsb8-us 1 --scan-save-only
>
> As far as I can tell, that just loads the scan data into these three
> tables (which can be imported later):
>
> channelscan
> channelscan_channel
> channelscan_dtv_multiplex
>
> That at least gives me a very benign way of seeing what the scan would
> actually do, and I can take it from there.
>
> Thanks!
> Tom

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. Looks like I'm squared away
now though it wasn't easy. Since I couldn't get the --scan option of
mythtv-setup (with or without the --scan-save-only) I decided to just
go ahead and rescan everything in the mythtv-setup gui and let the
chips fall where they may.

My existing channels had "." delimiters (like 4.1) where as any newly
discovered ones used underscores. That was actually just as well as it
made it pretty clear what was new and what was old. In a few cases
including channel 4 I ended up with my old 4.1 in addition to the new
4_1, which was on a new transport (and not UHF 28 as it was).

For those stations I used the channel editor to put the old stations
xmltvid into the new channel, and then deleted the old. I also ran
some SQL to assign the icons as well. I also had to fix my Favorites
channel group which had a few invalid chanid fields.

The ugliest part was that all my recording rules and recording history
etc had the wrong chanid and station (callsign). The station in my
case is important because I've used the "this channel" filter a lot.
The callsign had changed to WNBC and it was WNBC-DT before. Obviously
it also had a new unique chanid. I manually updates both chanid and
station on the tables record, record_tmp, and oldrecorded to the new
values.

After all that, and running mythfilldatbase everything looks good.
Scary shit though.

Tom
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Re: New frequency for NY NBC OTA channel 4 [ In reply to ]
On 04/03/2018 02:23 PM, Tom Dexter wrote:
> The ugliest part was that all my recording rules and recording history
> etc had the wrong chanid and station (callsign). The station in my
> case is important because I've used the "this channel" filter a lot.
> The callsign had changed to WNBC and it was WNBC-DT before. Obviously
> it also had a new unique chanid. I manually updates both chanid and
> station on the tables record, record_tmp, and oldrecorded to the new
> values.

This is why the channel call sign is a user-editable field. It is meant
as a user-specifiable channel uniqueness identifier--so you can assign
the same call sign to all your various channels that are the same
channel (whether that's due to changes over time or due to variations
across different inputs). All you had to do was change the call sign on
the new channel to WNBC-DT and all your rules would have worked, even
though you used the "this channel" filter, without your having to do any
direct manipulation of recording tables (including ones you edited that
didn't need editing, but that's another story).

Mike
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Re: New frequency for NY NBC OTA channel 4 [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 4:42 PM, Michael T. Dean <mtdean@thirdcontact.com> wrote:
> On 04/03/2018 02:23 PM, Tom Dexter wrote:
>>
>> The ugliest part was that all my recording rules and recording history etc
>> had the wrong chanid and station (callsign). The station in my case is
>> important because I've used the "this channel" filter a lot. The callsign
>> had changed to WNBC and it was WNBC-DT before. Obviously it also had a new
>> unique chanid. I manually updates both chanid and station on the tables
>> record, record_tmp, and oldrecorded to the new values.
>
>
> This is why the channel call sign is a user-editable field. It is meant as
> a user-specifiable channel uniqueness identifier--so you can assign the same
> call sign to all your various channels that are the same channel (whether
> that's due to changes over time or due to variations across different
> inputs). All you had to do was change the call sign on the new channel to
> WNBC-DT and all your rules would have worked, even though you used the "this
> channel" filter, without your having to do any direct manipulation of
> recording tables (including ones you edited that didn't need editing, but
> that's another story).
>
> Mike
>

Ahhh...thanks. I should have thought to do that. In any case, what
I've done probably means that future scans (which will likely also
pick up WNBC) will actually be correct.

Thanks!
Tom
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Re: New frequency for NY NBC OTA channel 4 [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 4:42 PM, Michael T. Dean <mtdean@thirdcontact.com> wrote:
> On 04/03/2018 02:23 PM, Tom Dexter wrote:
>>
>> The ugliest part was that all my recording rules and recording history etc
>> had the wrong chanid and station (callsign). The station in my case is
>> important because I've used the "this channel" filter a lot. The callsign
>> had changed to WNBC and it was WNBC-DT before. Obviously it also had a new
>> unique chanid. I manually updates both chanid and station on the tables
>> record, record_tmp, and oldrecorded to the new values.
>
>
> This is why the channel call sign is a user-editable field. It is meant as
> a user-specifiable channel uniqueness identifier--so you can assign the same
> call sign to all your various channels that are the same channel (whether
> that's due to changes over time or due to variations across different
> inputs). All you had to do was change the call sign on the new channel to
> WNBC-DT and all your rules would have worked, even though you used the "this
> channel" filter, without your having to do any direct manipulation of
> recording tables (including ones you edited that didn't need editing, but
> that's another story).
>
> Mike
>

One quick question on this one: As noted above the scan created a new
channel for 4.1 with the new frequency, and I used the channel editor
to delete the old one.

Had I edited the callsign on the new channel, would the recording
rules on the recorded table have worked despite the fact that they had
a chanid for the old channel that I had deleted in the channel editor?
I'd assume so based on the fact that the actual rule is for any
channel...just with a filter for "this channel" based on the callsign.

Thanks!
Tom
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Re: New frequency for NY NBC OTA channel 4 [ In reply to ]
On 03/04/18 01:26, Tom Dexter wrote:
> I just found out the hard way that apparently NY NBC channel 4
> apparently changed frequency on April 1.
>
> I'd love to be able to just find out what the new frequency is and to
> possible change it in the database. I HATE scanning for channels
> frankly. For one thing I have a bunch of disabled Philadelphia
> channels that I need to keep, but which can't be picked up without
> turning my antenna, and among other things I do NOT want it to delete
> any of those.
I don't do a scan, I just find out when things don't record and fix the
DB, here are my rough rules, if you don't know what you are doing then
don't use :-)
(I am in the UK)


#Useful urls
https://en.kingofsat.net/freqs.php?&pos=28.2E&standard=All&ordre=freq&filtre=no&aff=list
https://www.lyngsat.com/Astra-2E-2F-2G.html

#List chan details
select c.xmltvid, c.callsign, c.chanid, c.channum, c.sourceid
'c.sourceid', dm.sourceid 'dm.sourceid', c.mplexid 'c.mplexid',
dm.mplexid 'dm.mplexid', c.serviceid, dm.transportid, dm.frequency,
dm.inversion, dm.symbolrate, dm.fec, dm.polarity, dm.modulation,
dm.networkid from channel c, dtv_multiplex dm where c.mplexid =
dm.mplexid and name like '%???%';

#if nothing returned then the multiplex is probably missing - this is
probably better
select c.xmltvid, c.callsign, c.chanid, c.channum, c.sourceid
'c.sourceid', dm.sourceid 'dm.sourceid', c.mplexid 'c.mplexid',
dm.mplexid 'dm.mplexid', c.serviceid, dm.transportid, dm.frequency,
dm.inversion, dm.symbolrate, dm.fec, dm.polarity, dm.modulation,
dm.networkid from channel c left join dtv_multiplex dm on c.mplexid =
dm.mplexid where name like '%???%';

#May need to add a new row into dtv_multiplex - see useful urls
select
mplexid,sourceid,transportid,networkid,frequency,inversion,symbolrate,fec,polarity,modulation,sistandard
from dtv_multiplex where frequency=???;
select
mplexid,sourceid,transportid,networkid,frequency,inversion,symbolrate,fec,polarity,modulation,sistandard
from dtv_multiplex order by frequency;

#To insert a new frequency - needs to be done twice, for 3 and 5
sourceid's - I have HD and SD source ids
insert into dtv_multiplex
(sourceid,transportid,networkid,frequency,symbolrate,polarity)values(5,???,2,???,???,'?');


#Then usually you need to alter the channel tables
select xmltvid, name, c.callsign, c.chanid, c.channum, c.sourceid,
c.mplexid, c.serviceid from channel c where name like '%??%';
update channel set mplexid=??? where chanid=???;
update channel set serviceid=??? where chanid in (???,???);

#duplicate a channel row
CREATE table x SELECT * FROM channel where chanid=???'
#Find an empty chanid
select chanid from channel order by chanid limit 5;
update x set chanid=???, chanid=???;
INSERT INTO channel select * from x;
drop table x;

--
'ooroo

Stinga...(:)-)
---------------------------------------------------
Email: stinga+mythtv@wolf-rock.com o
You need only two tools. o /////
A hammer and duct tape. If it /@ `\ /) ~
doesn't move and it should use > (O) X< ~ Fish!!
the hammer. If it moves and `\___/' \) ~
shouldn't, use the tape. \\\
---------------------------------------------------

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Re: New frequency for NY NBC OTA channel 4 [ In reply to ]
On 04/03/2018 06:38 PM, Tom Dexter wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 4:42 PM, Michael T. Dean wrote:
>> On 04/03/2018 02:23 PM, Tom Dexter wrote:
>>> The ugliest part was that all my recording rules and recording history etc
>>> had the wrong chanid and station (callsign). The station in my case is
>>> important because I've used the "this channel" filter a lot. The callsign
>>> had changed to WNBC and it was WNBC-DT before. Obviously it also had a new
>>> unique chanid. I manually updates both chanid and station on the tables
>>> record, record_tmp, and oldrecorded to the new values.
>>
>> This is why the channel call sign is a user-editable field. It is meant as
>> a user-specifiable channel uniqueness identifier--so you can assign the same
>> call sign to all your various channels that are the same channel (whether
>> that's due to changes over time or due to variations across different
>> inputs). All you had to do was change the call sign on the new channel to
>> WNBC-DT and all your rules would have worked, even though you used the "this
>> channel" filter, without your having to do any direct manipulation of
>> recording tables (including ones you edited that didn't need editing, but
>> that's another story).
> One quick question on this one: As noted above the scan created a new
> channel for 4.1 with the new frequency, and I used the channel editor
> to delete the old one.
>
> Had I edited the callsign on the new channel, would the recording
> rules on the recorded table have worked despite the fact that they had
> a chanid for the old channel that I had deleted in the channel editor?
> I'd assume so based on the fact that the actual rule is for any
> channel...just with a filter for "this channel" based on the callsign.
>

Exactly. The filter uses a station ID which is a copy of the channel's
call sign at the time of rule creation. It does not use the channel ID
nor any of the data in the channel referenced by the channel ID so that
your channels can change without affecting how your rules work (which,
by the way, is different from saying "without affecting whether your
rules work").

As for the next scan picking up the right call sign, that might be the
case, but make sure you check. At least around here, they seem to
change what they transmit all the time--even though the call
sign/network name doesn't change--whether it's putting in garbage
characters or modifiers (like "-DT" or "-HD" or "-D1" or ...) or
changing modifiers (from "-DT" to " DT" or "DT") or trying to make more
clear/related or symmetric the naming of the various subchannels on the mux.

Mike
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Re: New frequency for NY NBC OTA channel 4 [ In reply to ]
On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 7:12 AM, Michael T. Dean <mtdean@thirdcontact.com> wrote:
> On 04/03/2018 06:38 PM, Tom Dexter wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 4:42 PM, Michael T. Dean wrote:
>>
>> One quick question on this one: As noted above the scan created a new
>> channel for 4.1 with the new frequency, and I used the channel editor
>> to delete the old one.
>>
>> Had I edited the callsign on the new channel, would the recording
>> rules on the recorded table have worked despite the fact that they had
>> a chanid for the old channel that I had deleted in the channel editor?
>> I'd assume so based on the fact that the actual rule is for any
>> channel...just with a filter for "this channel" based on the callsign.
>>
>
> Exactly. The filter uses a station ID which is a copy of the channel's call
> sign at the time of rule creation. It does not use the channel ID nor any
> of the data in the channel referenced by the channel ID so that your
> channels can change without affecting how your rules work (which, by the
> way, is different from saying "without affecting whether your rules work").
>
> As for the next scan picking up the right call sign, that might be the case,
> but make sure you check. At least around here, they seem to change what
> they transmit all the time--even though the call sign/network name doesn't
> change--whether it's putting in garbage characters or modifiers (like "-DT"
> or "-HD" or "-D1" or ...) or changing modifiers (from "-DT" to " DT" or
> "DT") or trying to make more clear/related or symmetric the naming of the
> various subchannels on the mux.
>
>
> Mike

Thanks! Yea, I think you're correct about the callsigns. As a matter
of fact I believe that at one point in the past channel 4 may have
used WNBC before it got changed to WNBC-DT, and now back again.

Another one occurred to me: Am I to assume that the same thing is true
for the way that the oldrecorded table is used to determine shows that
have been been previously recorded? That is, that the chanid doesn't
matter?

Thanks!
Tom
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Re: New frequency for NY NBC OTA channel 4 [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 11:17 AM, Gary Buhrmaster
<gary.buhrmaster@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 12:26 AM, Tom Dexter <digitalaudiorock@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I just found out the hard way that apparently NY NBC channel 4
>> apparently changed frequency on April 1.
>
> FWIW (not a lot for those impacted) many broadcasters
> in many markets will be changing their frequencies
> as part of the realignments under the results of FCC
> auction 1000 (1001/1002). The (rough) schedule for
> many broadcasters (based on requirements for the
> transition) can be found at:
> https://www.fcc.gov/about-fcc/fcc-initiatives/incentive-auctions/transition-schedule
> with the dates for each station can be found at:
> http://data.fcc.gov/download/incentive-auctions/Transition_Files/Phase_Assignment_Closing_PN.csv
>
> So, for those that want to create there own calendar
> reminder for when to check with their local stations
> (most stations will tend to have *their* specific
> schedule on their web sites as the date(s) approach),
> go look at the list(s).
>
>
> In the case of the NBC OTA channel, they made the
> deadline with almost two weeks to spare (for lots of
> good (and bad) reasons, picking a weekend day is
> likely better than the middle of the week).

Wow...thanks a million for that link to that CSV. I apologize that I
was too flustered with my channel scan mess to really notice that one
before. I've been able to find all my future upcoming changes there
(both New York and Philly). Great stuff.

I hadn't been following any of that auction stuff. Sounds like it
benefits the likes of Comcast and T-Mobile a lot more than the public.
What else is new right?

Thanks again!
Tom
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Re: New frequency for NY NBC OTA channel 4 [ In reply to ]
On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 5:51 AM, stinga <stinga+mythtv@wolf-rock.com> wrote:
> On 03/04/18 01:26, Tom Dexter wrote:
>>
>> I just found out the hard way that apparently NY NBC channel 4
>> apparently changed frequency on April 1.
>>
>> I'd love to be able to just find out what the new frequency is and to
>> possible change it in the database. I HATE scanning for channels
>> frankly. For one thing I have a bunch of disabled Philadelphia
>> channels that I need to keep, but which can't be picked up without
>> turning my antenna, and among other things I do NOT want it to delete
>> any of those.
>
> I don't do a scan, I just find out when things don't record and fix the DB,
> here are my rough rules, if you don't know what you are doing then don't use
> :-)
> (I am in the UK)
>
>
> #Useful urls
> https://en.kingofsat.net/freqs.php?&pos=28.2E&standard=All&ordre=freq&filtre=no&aff=list
> https://www.lyngsat.com/Astra-2E-2F-2G.html
>
> #List chan details
> select c.xmltvid, c.callsign, c.chanid, c.channum, c.sourceid 'c.sourceid',
> dm.sourceid 'dm.sourceid', c.mplexid 'c.mplexid', dm.mplexid 'dm.mplexid',
> c.serviceid, dm.transportid, dm.frequency, dm.inversion, dm.symbolrate,
> dm.fec, dm.polarity, dm.modulation, dm.networkid from channel c,
> dtv_multiplex dm where c.mplexid = dm.mplexid and name like '%???%';
>
> #if nothing returned then the multiplex is probably missing - this is
> probably better
> select c.xmltvid, c.callsign, c.chanid, c.channum, c.sourceid 'c.sourceid',
> dm.sourceid 'dm.sourceid', c.mplexid 'c.mplexid', dm.mplexid 'dm.mplexid',
> c.serviceid, dm.transportid, dm.frequency, dm.inversion, dm.symbolrate,
> dm.fec, dm.polarity, dm.modulation, dm.networkid from channel c left join
> dtv_multiplex dm on c.mplexid = dm.mplexid where name like '%???%';
>
> #May need to add a new row into dtv_multiplex - see useful urls
> select
> mplexid,sourceid,transportid,networkid,frequency,inversion,symbolrate,fec,polarity,modulation,sistandard
> from dtv_multiplex where frequency=???;
> select
> mplexid,sourceid,transportid,networkid,frequency,inversion,symbolrate,fec,polarity,modulation,sistandard
> from dtv_multiplex order by frequency;
>
> #To insert a new frequency - needs to be done twice, for 3 and 5 sourceid's
> - I have HD and SD source ids
> insert into dtv_multiplex
> (sourceid,transportid,networkid,frequency,symbolrate,polarity)values(5,???,2,???,???,'?');
>
>
> #Then usually you need to alter the channel tables
> select xmltvid, name, c.callsign, c.chanid, c.channum, c.sourceid,
> c.mplexid, c.serviceid from channel c where name like '%??%';
> update channel set mplexid=??? where chanid=???;
> update channel set serviceid=??? where chanid in (???,???);
>
> #duplicate a channel row
> CREATE table x SELECT * FROM channel where chanid=???'
> #Find an empty chanid
> select chanid from channel order by chanid limit 5;
> update x set chanid=???, chanid=???;
> INSERT INTO channel select * from x;
> drop table x;
>
> --
> 'ooroo
>
> Stinga...(:)-)

Yea, I'm thinking very seriously about a similar approach going
forward...especially based on Gary's links there which tell me that
this will be happening to me a LOT over the next few years. A good
part of my job requires more or less living in MySQL so that part
isn't an issue.

In the case of US OTA I think creating new entries on dtv_multiplex
wouldn't be too tough. I'd actually forgotten that I had this perl
script that will list the freqid (which in this case is the UHF or VHF
channel) and the associated frequency that the table would need:

#!/usr/bin/perl
# Run this against /usr/share/dvb/atsc/us-ATSC-center-frequencies-8VSB
# to get a list of frequencies and channel numbers

$cnt = 1;
while ($line = <>) {
chomp($line);
@temp = split(/\s+/, $line);
if ($temp[0] eq 'A') {
$cnt++;
$f = substr($temp[1], 0, length($temp[1]) - 6) . '000000';
print "$f\t$cnt\n";
}
}

Which does this:

perl chanfreq.pl /usr/share/dvb/atsc/us-ATSC-center-frequencies-8VSB
57000000 2
63000000 3
69000000 4
79000000 5
85000000 6
177000000 7
183000000 8
189000000 9
195000000 10
201000000 11
207000000 12
213000000 13
473000000 14
479000000 15
485000000 16
491000000 17
497000000 18
503000000 19
509000000 20
515000000 21
521000000 22
527000000 23
533000000 24
539000000 25
545000000 26
551000000 27
557000000 28
563000000 29
569000000 30
575000000 31
581000000 32
587000000 33
593000000 34
599000000 35
605000000 36
611000000 37
617000000 38
623000000 39
629000000 40
635000000 41
641000000 42
647000000 43
653000000 44
659000000 45
665000000 46
671000000 47
677000000 48
683000000 49
689000000 50
695000000 51
701000000 52
707000000 53
713000000 54
719000000 55
725000000 56
731000000 57
737000000 58
743000000 59
749000000 60
755000000 61
761000000 62
767000000 63
773000000 64
779000000 65
785000000 66
791000000 67
797000000 68
803000000 69

The link that Gary posted to that CSV file shows the from and to
channel numbers.

Anything's better than dealing with those scans.

Tom
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Re: New frequency for NY NBC OTA channel 4 [ In reply to ]
On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 12:08 PM, Tom Dexter <digitalaudiorock@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Yea, I'm thinking very seriously about a similar approach going
> forward...especially based on Gary's links there which tell me that
> this will be happening to me a LOT over the next few years.
>...
>
> Anything's better than dealing with those scans.
>
> Tom

Wow...more than I realized. Since that scan created a new channel id
all my existing recording from channel 4.1 report as #1041 # 1041 (the
old channel id) instead of WNBC 4.1. What a f****** mess. Never
again...I don't care what it takes.

Tom
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Re: New frequency for NY NBC OTA channel 4 [ In reply to ]
On 04/04/18 16:53, Tom Dexter wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 11:17 AM, Gary Buhrmaster
> <gary.buhrmaster@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 12:26 AM, Tom Dexter <digitalaudiorock@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I just found out the hard way that apparently NY NBC channel 4
>>> apparently changed frequency on April 1.
>>
>> FWIW (not a lot for those impacted) many broadcasters
>> in many markets will be changing their frequencies
>> as part of the realignments under the results of FCC
>> auction 1000 (1001/1002). The (rough) schedule for
>> many broadcasters (based on requirements for the
>> transition) can be found at:
>> https://www.fcc.gov/about-fcc/fcc-initiatives/incentive-auctions/transition-schedule
>> with the dates for each station can be found at:
>> http://data.fcc.gov/download/incentive-auctions/Transition_Files/Phase_Assignment_Closing_PN.csv
>>
>> So, for those that want to create there own calendar
>> reminder for when to check with their local stations
>> (most stations will tend to have *their* specific
>> schedule on their web sites as the date(s) approach),
>> go look at the list(s).
>>
>>
>> In the case of the NBC OTA channel, they made the
>> deadline with almost two weeks to spare (for lots of
>> good (and bad) reasons, picking a weekend day is
>> likely better than the middle of the week).
>
> Wow...thanks a million for that link to that CSV. I apologize that I
> was too flustered with my channel scan mess to really notice that one
> before. I've been able to find all my future upcoming changes there
> (both New York and Philly). Great stuff.
>
> I hadn't been following any of that auction stuff. Sounds like it
> benefits the likes of Comcast and T-Mobile a lot more than the public.
> What else is new right?

BBC news today said that the equivalent auction of 5G frequencies in the
UK has raised 'more than 1.3 billion pounds'

I had an 'interesting' retuning experience when it led to a swap of two
multiplexes with different characteristics. More to come here too.

John P

>
> Thanks again!
> Tom
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