Mailing List Archive

Frontend for Apple TV 4
I was surprised to find a MythTV app in the Apple TV 4 app store. So, I
thought I would give it a try for the $4 app cost.

It worked quite well for me. It played my HD MPEG2 (US Broadcast)
recordings quite well. It doesn’t do live TV, schedule recordings, or any
other mythfrontend features.. it just plays recordings. But, that’s all I
want from a frontend 95% of the time.

The main thing I found lacking was the navigation. Right/Left arrows
didn’t do the skip forward/back you would expect. You could only move in
the video via the new remote’s touchpad control on the video timeline.
That touchpad is probably great for a lot of things, but doing 30 second
skips is not one of them.

Overall, I thought it was a really solid first version. If the skip
forward/back controls are added it could become my primary frontend.
Re: Frontend for Apple TV 4 [ In reply to ]
> On Nov 7, 2015, at 12:24 AM, Tom Harris <thom.j.harris@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I was surprised to find a MythTV app in the Apple TV 4 app store. So, I thought I would give it a try for the $4 app cost.
>
> It worked quite well for me. It played my HD MPEG2 (US Broadcast) recordings quite well. It doesn’t do live TV, schedule recordings, or any other mythfrontend features.. it just plays recordings. But, that’s all I want from a frontend 95% of the time.
>
> The main thing I found lacking was the navigation. Right/Left arrows didn’t do the skip forward/back you would expect. You could only move in the video via the new remote’s touchpad control on the video timeline. That touchpad is probably great for a lot of things, but doing 30 second skips is not one of them.
>
> Overall, I thought it was a really solid first version. If the skip forward/back controls are added it could become my primary frontend.

What is the exact name? Can you provide a link?

Re playing un-transcoded recordings, is your AppleTV on a wired connection or wireless (which flavour)?

I don’t have a new Apple TV, but I understand that at least some players implement a 10 second skip forward/back by tapping on the right/left of the player bar. Have you tried that?

Thanks for the report!

Craig

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Re: Frontend for Apple TV 4 [ In reply to ]
On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 6:08 AM, Craig Treleaven <ctreleaven@cogeco.ca>
wrote:

> > On Nov 7, 2015, at 12:24 AM, Tom Harris <thom.j.harris@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I was surprised to find a MythTV app in the Apple TV 4 app store. So,
> I thought I would give it a try for the $4 app cost.
> >
> > It worked quite well for me. It played my HD MPEG2 (US Broadcast)
> recordings quite well. It doesn’t do live TV, schedule recordings, or any
> other mythfrontend features.. it just plays recordings. But, that’s all I
> want from a frontend 95% of the time.
> >
> > The main thing I found lacking was the navigation. Right/Left arrows
> didn’t do the skip forward/back you would expect. You could only move in
> the video via the new remote’s touchpad control on the video timeline.
> That touchpad is probably great for a lot of things, but doing 30 second
> skips is not one of them.
> >
> > Overall, I thought it was a really solid first version. If the skip
> forward/back controls are added it could become my primary frontend.
>
> What is the exact name? Can you provide a link?
>

The name is “MythTV”. I don’t think there are any web links to Apple TV
only apps - making them really hard to find. I also didn’t find any other
reference to the app on the web prior to launch. I guess the author is
not one for marketing. The only current way to find it is to search
within the app store on the Apple TV.


> Re playing un-transcoded recordings, is your AppleTV on a wired connection
> or wireless (which flavour)?
>

I’m on wireless, 5GHz N / AC. I’m guessing the new AppleTV is using AC.
My other frontends are on N-wireless, and all can do ATSC MPEG2 playback
just fine. Obviously, your mileage may vary depending on your house and
wifi location.


> I don’t have a new Apple TV, but I understand that at least some players
> implement a 10 second skip forward/back by tapping on the right/left of the
> player bar. Have you tried that?
>

I did try that. I also tried input from IR to see if my universal remote
could control it. Navigation worked fine, but skip ahead / back did not.

I later read the notes in the app listing (RTFM) and there it said slide up
on the touchpad is +30s, slide down is -8. That works pretty well, and is
much better than trying to navigate the timeline. But, I think the remote
goes into power savings mode pretty quickly, because it seems to miss the
first slide after long pauses.

When the remote is working, the skip ahead/back is pretty quick. Not as
quick as a native frontend, but nothing is. If it would react to IR
navigation in all four directions, like Mythfrontend, it would be a big
improvement.


> Thanks for the report!
>
> Craig
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
> MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org
>
Re: Frontend for Apple TV 4 [ In reply to ]
On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 11:21 AM, Tom Harris <thom.j.harris@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 6:08 AM, Craig Treleaven <ctreleaven@cogeco.ca>
> wrote:
>
>> > On Nov 7, 2015, at 12:24 AM, Tom Harris <thom.j.harris@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > I was surprised to find a MythTV app in the Apple TV 4 app store. So,
>> I thought I would give it a try for the $4 app cost.
>> >
>> > It worked quite well for me. It played my HD MPEG2 (US Broadcast)
>> recordings quite well. It doesn’t do live TV, schedule recordings, or any
>> other mythfrontend features.. it just plays recordings. But, that’s all I
>> want from a frontend 95% of the time.
>> >
>> > The main thing I found lacking was the navigation. Right/Left arrows
>> didn’t do the skip forward/back you would expect. You could only move in
>> the video via the new remote’s touchpad control on the video timeline.
>> That touchpad is probably great for a lot of things, but doing 30 second
>> skips is not one of them.
>> >
>> > Overall, I thought it was a really solid first version. If the skip
>> forward/back controls are added it could become my primary frontend.
>>
>> What is the exact name? Can you provide a link?
>>
>
> The name is “MythTV”. I don’t think there are any web links to Apple TV
> only apps - making them really hard to find. I also didn’t find any other
> reference to the app on the web prior to launch. I guess the author is
> not one for marketing. The only current way to find it is to search
> within the app store on the Apple TV.
>
>
>> Re playing un-transcoded recordings, is your AppleTV on a wired
>> connection or wireless (which flavour)?
>>
>
> I’m on wireless, 5GHz N / AC. I’m guessing the new AppleTV is using AC.
> My other frontends are on N-wireless, and all can do ATSC MPEG2 playback
> just fine. Obviously, your mileage may vary depending on your house and
> wifi location.
>
>
>> I don’t have a new Apple TV, but I understand that at least some players
>> implement a 10 second skip forward/back by tapping on the right/left of the
>> player bar. Have you tried that?
>>
>
> I did try that. I also tried input from IR to see if my universal remote
> could control it. Navigation worked fine, but skip ahead / back did not.
>
> I later read the notes in the app listing (RTFM) and there it said slide
> up on the touchpad is +30s, slide down is -8. That works pretty well, and
> is much better than trying to navigate the timeline. But, I think the
> remote goes into power savings mode pretty quickly, because it seems to
> miss the first slide after long pauses.
>
> When the remote is working, the skip ahead/back is pretty quick. Not as
> quick as a native frontend, but nothing is. If it would react to IR
> navigation in all four directions, like Mythfrontend, it would be a big
> improvement.
>
>
>> Thanks for the report!
>>
>> Craig
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mythtv-users mailing list
>> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
>> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
>> MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
> MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org
>
>
It is interesting to here that it will decode MPEG2. Are you sure that your
recordings are MPEG2? There is no mention of MPEG2 support in the specs for
the ATV4.

-Tom
Re: Frontend for Apple TV 4 [ In reply to ]
On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 9:19 AM, Tom Bongiorno <tbjr@bongohut.com> wrote:

> On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 11:21 AM, Tom Harris <thom.j.harris@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 6:08 AM, Craig Treleaven <ctreleaven@cogeco.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> > On Nov 7, 2015, at 12:24 AM, Tom Harris <thom.j.harris@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > I was surprised to find a MythTV app in the Apple TV 4 app store.
>>> So, I thought I would give it a try for the $4 app cost.
>>> >
>>> > It worked quite well for me. It played my HD MPEG2 (US Broadcast)
>>> recordings quite well. It doesn’t do live TV, schedule recordings, or any
>>> other mythfrontend features.. it just plays recordings. But, that’s all I
>>> want from a frontend 95% of the time.
>>> >
>>> > The main thing I found lacking was the navigation. Right/Left arrows
>>> didn’t do the skip forward/back you would expect. You could only move in
>>> the video via the new remote’s touchpad control on the video timeline.
>>> That touchpad is probably great for a lot of things, but doing 30 second
>>> skips is not one of them.
>>> >
>>> > Overall, I thought it was a really solid first version. If the skip
>>> forward/back controls are added it could become my primary frontend.
>>>
>>> What is the exact name? Can you provide a link?
>>>
>>
>> The name is “MythTV”. I don’t think there are any web links to Apple TV
>> only apps - making them really hard to find. I also didn’t find any other
>> reference to the app on the web prior to launch. I guess the author is
>> not one for marketing. The only current way to find it is to search
>> within the app store on the Apple TV.
>>
>>
>>> Re playing un-transcoded recordings, is your AppleTV on a wired
>>> connection or wireless (which flavour)?
>>>
>>
>> I’m on wireless, 5GHz N / AC. I’m guessing the new AppleTV is using AC.
>> My other frontends are on N-wireless, and all can do ATSC MPEG2 playback
>> just fine. Obviously, your mileage may vary depending on your house and
>> wifi location.
>>
>>
>>> I don’t have a new Apple TV, but I understand that at least some players
>>> implement a 10 second skip forward/back by tapping on the right/left of the
>>> player bar. Have you tried that?
>>>
>>
>> I did try that. I also tried input from IR to see if my universal remote
>> could control it. Navigation worked fine, but skip ahead / back did not.
>>
>> I later read the notes in the app listing (RTFM) and there it said slide
>> up on the touchpad is +30s, slide down is -8. That works pretty well, and
>> is much better than trying to navigate the timeline. But, I think the
>> remote goes into power savings mode pretty quickly, because it seems to
>> miss the first slide after long pauses.
>>
>> When the remote is working, the skip ahead/back is pretty quick. Not as
>> quick as a native frontend, but nothing is. If it would react to IR
>> navigation in all four directions, like Mythfrontend, it would be a big
>> improvement.
>>
>>
>>> Thanks for the report!
>>>
>>> Craig
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> mythtv-users mailing list
>>> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
>>> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>>> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
>>> MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mythtv-users mailing list
>> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
>> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
>> MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org
>>
>>
> It is interesting to here that it will decode MPEG2. Are you sure that
> your recordings are MPEG2? There is no mention of MPEG2 support in the
> specs for the ATV4.
>

:) Yes. Over the years I’ve been trying many frontend options, always
looking for one that can do MPEG2 because so few devices do MPEG2 and fewer
have a MythTV option. So, I’m quite familiar with the issue. My backend
is not powerful enough to transcode real-time-ish and my HDHomeRun Prime
can’t transcode. I’ve been on the hunt for a multi-function device capable
of MPEG2 playback for quite a while.

I am assuming that the AppleTV is doing software decoding, because none of
the Apple APIs I know of support MPEG2, including Mac OS X devices which
definitely do have the hardware support for it.

For my requirements, the new Apple TV comes closest to the device I’ve been
looking for. It can support the services I subscribe to (Netflix, HBO,
etc.), broad music/movie rental and purchase options, and now a MythTV
frontend. For those of us that use Apple devices and content, it makes
for an interesting option.


But, be aware that this app is quite barebones.. It does two things: 1)
Display your list of recordings in a vertical selection list and 2) Play
the selected recording. For my use, that’s enough and is better than
the various UPnP, Google TV, and other options I’ve tried in the past.
Re: Frontend for Apple TV 4 [ In reply to ]
On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 6:11 PM, Tom Harris <thom.j.harris@gmail.com> wrote:
....
> I am assuming that the AppleTV is doing software decoding, because none of
> the Apple APIs I know of support MPEG2, including Mac OS X devices which
> definitely do have the hardware support for it.

Almost all the SoCs hardware support it if the device support H.264.
It is licensing and APIs that are missing. I believe (just as with no
Flash support) Apple thought that if they pointed the way, everyone
would go there. And while H.264/5 may be the place most will end
up at, with the FCC's version of ATSC requiring MPEG2 in the US,
it is going to be a slow path for OTA customers.

So if it is all software, that likely means that quality motion compensated
de-interlacing is not part of the package. As always, your display device
or your perception of the artifacts will vary (some people who can tell the
difference will choose to give up quality for price, as is their right).
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Re: Frontend for Apple TV 4 [ In reply to ]
> On Nov 7, 2015, at 1:11 PM, Tom Harris <thom.j.harris@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 9:19 AM, Tom Bongiorno <tbjr@bongohut.com <mailto:tbjr@bongohut.com>> wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 11:21 AM, Tom Harris <thom.j.harris@gmail.com <mailto:thom.j.harris@gmail.com>> wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 6:08 AM, Craig Treleaven <ctreleaven@cogeco.ca <mailto:ctreleaven@cogeco.ca>> wrote:
> > On Nov 7, 2015, at 12:24 AM, Tom Harris <thom.j.harris@gmail.com <mailto:thom.j.harris@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > I was surprised to find a MythTV app in the Apple TV 4 app store. So, I thought I would give it a try for the $4 app cost.
> >
> > It worked quite well for me. It played my HD MPEG2 (US Broadcast) recordings quite well. It doesn’t do live TV, schedule recordings, or any other mythfrontend features.. it just plays recordings. But, that’s all I want from a frontend 95% of the time.
> >
> > The main thing I found lacking was the navigation. Right/Left arrows didn’t do the skip forward/back you would expect. You could only move in the video via the new remote’s touchpad control on the video timeline. That touchpad is probably great for a lot of things, but doing 30 second skips is not one of them.
> >
> > Overall, I thought it was a really solid first version. If the skip forward/back controls are added it could become my primary frontend.
>
> What is the exact name? Can you provide a link?
>
> The name is “MythTV”. I don’t think there are any web links to Apple TV only apps - making them really hard to find. I also didn’t find any other reference to the app on the web prior to launch. I guess the author is not one for marketing. The only current way to find it is to search within the app store on the Apple TV.
>
> Re playing un-transcoded recordings, is your AppleTV on a wired connection or wireless (which flavour)?
>
> I’m on wireless, 5GHz N / AC. I’m guessing the new AppleTV is using AC. My other frontends are on N-wireless, and all can do ATSC MPEG2 playback just fine. Obviously, your mileage may vary depending on your house and wifi location.
>
> I don’t have a new Apple TV, but I understand that at least some players implement a 10 second skip forward/back by tapping on the right/left of the player bar. Have you tried that?
>
> I did try that. I also tried input from IR to see if my universal remote could control it. Navigation worked fine, but skip ahead / back did not.
>
> I later read the notes in the app listing (RTFM) and there it said slide up on the touchpad is +30s, slide down is -8. That works pretty well, and is much better than trying to navigate the timeline. But, I think the remote goes into power savings mode pretty quickly, because it seems to miss the first slide after long pauses.
>
> When the remote is working, the skip ahead/back is pretty quick. Not as quick as a native frontend, but nothing is. If it would react to IR navigation in all four directions, like Mythfrontend, it would be a big improvement.
>
>
> It is interesting to here that it will decode MPEG2. Are you sure that your recordings are MPEG2? There is no mention of MPEG2 support in the specs for the ATV4.
>
> :) Yes. Over the years I’ve been trying many frontend options, always looking for one that can do MPEG2 because so few devices do MPEG2 and fewer have a MythTV option. So, I’m quite familiar with the issue. My backend is not powerful enough to transcode real-time-ish and my HDHomeRun Prime can’t transcode. I’ve been on the hunt for a multi-function device capable of MPEG2 playback for quite a while.
>
> I am assuming that the AppleTV is doing software decoding, because none of the Apple APIs I know of support MPEG2, including Mac OS X devices which definitely do have the hardware support for it.
>
> For my requirements, the new Apple TV comes closest to the device I’ve been looking for. It can support the services I subscribe to (Netflix, HBO, etc.), broad music/movie rental and purchase options, and now a MythTV frontend. For those of us that use Apple devices and content, it makes for an interesting option.
>
>
> But, be aware that this app is quite barebones.. It does two things: 1) Display your list of recordings in a vertical selection list and 2) Play the selected recording. For my use, that’s enough and is better than the various UPnP, Google TV, and other options I’ve tried in the past.

As another data point on the AppleTV playing HD MPEG2, there is now a beta app for live TV (from HDHomerun tuners) called Channels.

http://getchannels.com

The web site doesn’t have much infornmation but the developer hangs out on the SiliconDust forum quite often. He is trying out different de-interlacing options and getting feedback from his beta group. Recently, he posted saying: "The A8 in the new apple tv is a beast and handles decoding full HD video without a sweat."

Craig
Re: Frontend for Apple TV 4 [ In reply to ]
I wrote the MythTV app for tvOS (Apple TV 4). I'm glad you're enjoying it
and that you found the 30 second skip feature.

There should be an update later this week that brings folders as well as
the ability to fast forward (not just skip or "scrub"), as well as some
other improvements.

Send me a direct email if you would like to be added to the beta list for
early access to new versions.

On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 9:21 AM, Tom Harris <thom.j.harris@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> When the remote is working, the skip ahead/back is pretty quick. Not as
> quick as a native frontend, but nothing is. If it would react to IR
> navigation in all four directions, like Mythfrontend, it would be a big
> improvement.
>
>
Could you describe the behavior you would like to see? It's been years
since I've ran the official Mythfrontend.

--
bart
Re: Frontend for Apple TV 4 [ In reply to ]
On Sun, Nov 8, 2015 at 4:32 PM, Bart Whiteley <bart.lists@whiteley.org>
wrote:

> I wrote the MythTV app for tvOS (Apple TV 4). I'm glad you're enjoying it
> and that you found the 30 second skip feature.
>
> There should be an update later this week that brings folders as well as
> the ability to fast forward (not just skip or "scrub"), as well as some
> other improvements.
>
> Send me a direct email if you would like to be added to the beta list for
> early access to new versions.
>

I’ll do that, thanks.

>
> On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 9:21 AM, Tom Harris <thom.j.harris@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> When the remote is working, the skip ahead/back is pretty quick. Not as
>> quick as a native frontend, but nothing is. If it would react to IR
>> navigation in all four directions, like Mythfrontend, it would be a big
>> improvement.
>>
>>
> Could you describe the behavior you would like to see? It's been years
> since I've ran the official Mythfrontend.
>

Basically, the left & right arrow IR events behave like your slide up/down
actions (right=+30s, left=-8s). IR Up=jump back Down=jump ahead. These
are long jumps, I believe the default is 10 minutes. These timings are all
configurable in mythfrontend.


>
> --
> bart
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
> MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org
>
>
Re: Frontend for Apple TV 4 [ In reply to ]
On Sun, Nov 8, 2015 at 6:22 PM, Tom Harris <thom.j.harris@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Basically, the left & right arrow IR events behave like your slide up/down
> actions (right=+30s, left=-8s). IR Up=jump back Down=jump ahead. These
> are long jumps, I believe the default is 10 minutes. These timings are all
> configurable in mythfrontend.
>
>
That's a good point... Although scrubbing with the trackpad might be
superior to a 10 minute jump, sometimes you might want to use the TV remote
(with arrow buttons) instead of the Apple TV remote. Especially since the
new AppleTV supports HDMI-CEC quite well.

Thanks for the feedback.
Re: Frontend for Apple TV 4 [ In reply to ]
On Sat, Nov 07, 2015 at 06:46:17PM +0000, Gary Buhrmaster wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 6:11 PM, Tom Harris <thom.j.harris@gmail.com> wrote:
> ....
> > I am assuming that the AppleTV is doing software decoding, because none of
> > the Apple APIs I know of support MPEG2, including Mac OS X devices which
> > definitely do have the hardware support for it.
>
> Almost all the SoCs hardware support it if the device support H.264.
> It is licensing and APIs that are missing. I believe (just as with no
> Flash support) Apple thought that if they pointed the way, everyone
> would go there. And while H.264/5 may be the place most will end
> up at, with the FCC's version of ATSC requiring MPEG2 in the US,
> it is going to be a slow path for OTA customers.

Except MPEG2 is a legacy format. There's a large amount of content out
there that has been created by end users in that format. Apple's apparent
hostility to MPEG2 has always intrigued me.

[deletia]
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Re: Frontend for Apple TV 4 [ In reply to ]
On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 10:09 PM, jedi <jedi@mishnet.org> wrote:
> ... Apple's apparent
> hostility to MPEG2 has always intrigued me.

At (around) $2/unit shipped, that is real money.
Somewhere north of a billion dollars for all iDevices
sold (and even to Apple, a billion dollars matters).
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Re: Frontend for Apple TV 4 [ In reply to ]
On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 7:06 PM, Gary Buhrmaster <gary.buhrmaster@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 10:09 PM, jedi <jedi@mishnet.org> wrote:
> > ... Apple's apparent
> > hostility to MPEG2 has always intrigued me.
>
> At (around) $2/unit shipped, that is real money.
> Somewhere north of a billion dollars for all iDevices
> sold (and even to Apple, a billion dollars matters).
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
> MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org
>

Not to mention that basically none of these low power streaming devices
have native support for MPEG2. This is certainly not unique to Apple.

MPEG2 should be long dead by now, but cable operator still utilize this
format. Fortunately, we are seeing signs of cable operators in the US
slowly transitioning to MPEG4, and potentially making this a moot point.
Re: Frontend for Apple TV 4 [ In reply to ]
>
> Not to mention that basically none of these low power streaming devices
> have native support for MPEG2. This is certainly not unique to Apple.
>
> MPEG2 should be long dead by now, but cable operator still utilize this
> format. Fortunately, we are seeing signs of cable operators in the US
> slowly transitioning to MPEG4, and potentially making this a moot point.
>

Not really - remember large parts of the world are still broadcasting DVB
in MPEG2 format.
Re: Frontend for Apple TV 4 [ In reply to ]
jedi <jedi@mishnet.org> wrote:

> Apple's apparent
> hostility to MPEG2 has always intrigued me.

Really simple and short answer - they don't give a **** because that doesn't earn them anything !

Remember that Apple long since abandoned all but a pretence about it being about "the customer" - now it's clear that the whole strategy is about proprietary systems, customer locking, walled gardens, and taking a slice (30%) of everything the user spends.

Perhaps I'm just getting cynical, but I get the impression that any ability they offer to access "your own stuff" is incidental and only allowed grudgingly on the basis that they can't get away with not supporting it (yet).

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Re: Frontend for Apple TV 4 [ In reply to ]
On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 9:17 PM, Phill Edwards <philledwards@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Not to mention that basically none of these low power streaming devices
>> have native support for MPEG2. This is certainly not unique to Apple.
>>
>> MPEG2 should be long dead by now, but cable operator still utilize this
>> format. Fortunately, we are seeing signs of cable operators in the US
>> slowly transitioning to MPEG4, and potentially making this a moot point.
>>
>
> Not really - remember large parts of the world are still broadcasting DVB
> in MPEG2 format.
>
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>
>
I can't really speak for markets outside of the US. I will be more specific
next time.
Re: Frontend for Apple TV 4 [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 6:37 AM, Simon Hobson <linux@thehobsons.co.uk>
wrote:

> jedi <jedi@mishnet.org> wrote:
>
> > Apple's apparent
> > hostility to MPEG2 has always intrigued me.
>
> Really simple and short answer - they don't give a **** because that
> doesn't earn them anything !
>
> Remember that Apple long since abandoned all but a pretence about it being
> about "the customer" - now it's clear that the whole strategy is about
> proprietary systems, customer locking, walled gardens, and taking a slice
> (30%) of everything the user spends.
>
> Perhaps I'm just getting cynical, but I get the impression that any
> ability they offer to access "your own stuff" is incidental and only
> allowed grudgingly on the basis that they can't get away with not
> supporting it (yet).
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
> MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org
>

You are correct, you are getting cynical. Again, none of the low power
streaming devices natively support MPEG2 for good reason. None of the
streaming services, that they were created to serve, stream in MPEG2. And
as Gary mentioned, there is a licensing fee associated with the format. We
are hoping to augment the functionality of the device.

Apple's walled garden is both a blessing and a curse for consumers. The
very good thing is that the ATV does not dominate the market and we have
many choices.
Re: Frontend for Apple TV 4 [ In reply to ]
On Sun, Nov 8, 2015 at 6:04 AM, Craig Treleaven <ctreleaven@cogeco.ca>
wrote:

> The web site doesn’t have much infornmation but the developer hangs out on
> the SiliconDust forum quite often. He is trying out different
> de-interlacing options and getting feedback from his beta group. Recently,
> he posted saying: "The A8 in the new apple tv is a beast and handles
> decoding full HD video without a sweat."
>
>
CPU utilization is around 60% while playing HD MPEG2 on the new Apple TV.
Re: Frontend for Apple TV 4 [ In reply to ]
> On Nov 10, 2015, at 10:05 AM, Bart Whiteley <bart.lists@whiteley.org> wrote:
>
> On Sun, Nov 8, 2015 at 6:04 AM, Craig Treleaven <ctreleaven@cogeco.ca <mailto:ctreleaven@cogeco.ca>> wrote:
> The web site doesn’t have much infornmation but the developer hangs out on the SiliconDust forum quite often. He is trying out different de-interlacing options and getting feedback from his beta group. Recently, he posted saying: "The A8 in the new apple tv is a beast and handles decoding full HD video without a sweat."
>
>
> CPU utilization is around 60% while playing HD MPEG2 on the new Apple TV.

1080i or 720p?

Which de-interlacer are you using? Do you offer de-interlacing options?

Does your client mark recordings played automatically? Is the current playback position saved on exit so one can resume where we left off? Just on your client or on Mythfrontend? Does your client offer commerical skipping? Playback at 1.1 or 1.2 times normal? None of these are deal-breakers, but they are nice features of the native frontend.

Just for interest, what protocol do you use to connect to the backend? The Services API? Did you previously do an iOS client or is this brand new?

Craig
Re: Frontend for Apple TV 4 [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 2:54 PM, Tom Bongiorno <tbjr@bongohut.com> wrote:
....
> You are correct, you are getting cynical. Again, none of the low power
> streaming devices natively support MPEG2 for good reason.

Actually, with the unusual exceptions, all the SoC chips that have on-board
hardware H.264 decoding have hardware MPEG2 decoding on the chip.
Even the Apple chips (although I have heard no one confirm the A9 still has
the hardware decode for MPEG2, all previous gens were reported to do so).
The RPi has hardware MPEG2 decode (which requires a license to enable).
The Nexus Player always had the hardware capability, but ASUS/Google
did not license or support it until Marshmallow (The Nexus 7 2013 had MPEG2
decoding enabled with Lollipop as I recall). If one gets down to the SoC VPU
level, MPEG2 capability is commonly in there.

It is software and licensing that determines if the systems support the
hardware capabilities. It is true many low power streaming devices do
not support MPEG2. But it is not about capability, but ROI. Few people
will not purchase a Roku because it does not support MPEG2 (even though
the hardware can do so), so why invest in support of it? It is not what
most streaming devices are purchased for (which is Nefflix, and Amazon
video, and Apple itunes, and Google play, and HBO now, which all
use H.264).

To be (slightly) fair, it is also true that MPEG2 bandwidth requirements
means that few people on (true) mobile devices would have been able
to be satisfied with the experience. H.264 fits better.

This has lead to an entire cottage industry of transcoding solutions
for people with MPEG2 content (which includes those with a lot of
recorded TV, or ripped DVDs), but while everyone on this list may
wish for MPEG2 support, the total is still small, and companies look at
ROI. Commit (with a purchase order) to purchase a few hundred
million Rokus if they add MPEG2 support by the new year, and you
might find Roku will add it (well, they could not ship that many, but
they would talk).
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Re: Frontend for Apple TV 4 [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 09:54:42AM -0500, Tom Bongiorno wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 6:37 AM, Simon Hobson <linux@thehobsons.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> > jedi <jedi@mishnet.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Apple's apparent
> > > hostility to MPEG2 has always intrigued me.
> >
> > Really simple and short answer - they don't give a **** because that
> > doesn't earn them anything !
> >
> > Remember that Apple long since abandoned all but a pretence about it being
> > about "the customer" - now it's clear that the whole strategy is about
> > proprietary systems, customer locking, walled gardens, and taking a slice
> > (30%) of everything the user spends.
> >
> > Perhaps I'm just getting cynical, but I get the impression that any
> > ability they offer to access "your own stuff" is incidental and only
> > allowed grudgingly on the basis that they can't get away with not
> > supporting it (yet).

[deletia]

>
> You are correct, you are getting cynical. Again, none of the low power
> streaming devices natively support MPEG2 for good reason. None of the
> streaming services, that they were created to serve, stream in MPEG2. And

That's a stupid reason. That ingores one of the original use cases
for home video, namely creating your own content. People already have
stuff. These aren't even terribly geeky people. They have it because
previous generations of devices used those old formats.

[deletia]
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Re: Frontend for Apple TV 4 [ In reply to ]
On 10 Nov 2015, at 17:51, jedi <jedi@mishnet.org> wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 09:54:42AM -0500, Tom Bongiorno wrote:
>> On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 6:37 AM, Simon Hobson <linux@thehobsons.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> jedi <jedi@mishnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Apple's apparent
>>>> hostility to MPEG2 has always intrigued me.
>>>
>>> Really simple and short answer - they don't give a **** because that
>>> doesn't earn them anything !
>>>
>>> Remember that Apple long since abandoned all but a pretence about it being
>>> about "the customer" - now it's clear that the whole strategy is about
>>> proprietary systems, customer locking, walled gardens, and taking a slice
>>> (30%) of everything the user spends.
>>>
>>> Perhaps I'm just getting cynical, but I get the impression that any
>>> ability they offer to access "your own stuff" is incidental and only
>>> allowed grudgingly on the basis that they can't get away with not
>>> supporting it (yet).
>
> [deletia]
>
>>
>> You are correct, you are getting cynical. Again, none of the low power
>> streaming devices natively support MPEG2 for good reason. None of the
>> streaming services, that they were created to serve, stream in MPEG2. And
>
> That's a stupid reason. That ingores one of the original use cases
> for home video, namely creating your own content. People already have
> stuff. These aren't even terribly geeky people. They have it because
> previous generations of devices used those old formats.
It’s not a stupid reason, you think it’s a stupid reason, that are different things.
>
> [deletia]
> _______________________________________________
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Re: Frontend for Apple TV 4 [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 11:51 AM, jedi <jedi@mishnet.org> wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 09:54:42AM -0500, Tom Bongiorno wrote:
> > On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 6:37 AM, Simon Hobson <linux@thehobsons.co.uk>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > jedi <jedi@mishnet.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Apple's apparent
> > > > hostility to MPEG2 has always intrigued me.
> > >
> > > Really simple and short answer - they don't give a **** because that
> > > doesn't earn them anything !
> > >
> > > Remember that Apple long since abandoned all but a pretence about it
> being
> > > about "the customer" - now it's clear that the whole strategy is about
> > > proprietary systems, customer locking, walled gardens, and taking a
> slice
> > > (30%) of everything the user spends.
> > >
> > > Perhaps I'm just getting cynical, but I get the impression that any
> > > ability they offer to access "your own stuff" is incidental and only
> > > allowed grudgingly on the basis that they can't get away with not
> > > supporting it (yet).
>
> [deletia]
>
> >
> > You are correct, you are getting cynical. Again, none of the low power
> > streaming devices natively support MPEG2 for good reason. None of the
> > streaming services, that they were created to serve, stream in MPEG2. And
>
> That's a stupid reason. That ingores one of the original use cases
> for home video, namely creating your own content. People already have
> stuff. These aren't even terribly geeky people. They have it because
> previous generations of devices used those old formats.
>
> [deletia]
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
> MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org
>

Outside of our niche group, MythTV users and the like, who is creating
their own MPEG2 content?
Re: Frontend for Apple TV 4 [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 11:27 AM, Gary Buhrmaster <gary.buhrmaster@gmail.com
> wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 2:54 PM, Tom Bongiorno <tbjr@bongohut.com> wrote:
> ....
> > You are correct, you are getting cynical. Again, none of the low power
> > streaming devices natively support MPEG2 for good reason.
>
> Actually, with the unusual exceptions, all the SoC chips that have on-board
> hardware H.264 decoding have hardware MPEG2 decoding on the chip.
> Even the Apple chips (although I have heard no one confirm the A9 still has
> the hardware decode for MPEG2, all previous gens were reported to do so).
> The RPi has hardware MPEG2 decode (which requires a license to enable).
> The Nexus Player always had the hardware capability, but ASUS/Google
> did not license or support it until Marshmallow (The Nexus 7 2013 had MPEG2
> decoding enabled with Lollipop as I recall). If one gets down to the SoC
> VPU
> level, MPEG2 capability is commonly in there.
>
> It is software and licensing that determines if the systems support the
> hardware capabilities. It is true many low power streaming devices do
> not support MPEG2. But it is not about capability, but ROI. Few people
> will not purchase a Roku because it does not support MPEG2 (even though
> the hardware can do so), so why invest in support of it? It is not what
> most streaming devices are purchased for (which is Nefflix, and Amazon
> video, and Apple itunes, and Google play, and HBO now, which all
> use H.264).
>
> To be (slightly) fair, it is also true that MPEG2 bandwidth requirements
> means that few people on (true) mobile devices would have been able
> to be satisfied with the experience. H.264 fits better.
>
> This has lead to an entire cottage industry of transcoding solutions
> for people with MPEG2 content (which includes those with a lot of
> recorded TV, or ripped DVDs), but while everyone on this list may
> wish for MPEG2 support, the total is still small, and companies look at
> ROI. Commit (with a purchase order) to purchase a few hundred
> million Rokus if they add MPEG2 support by the new year, and you
> might find Roku will add it (well, they could not ship that many, but
> they would talk).
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
> MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org
>

I did not realize that the hardware can decode it. I would happily pay the
license fee through the app store to unlock the capability.
Re: Frontend for Apple TV 4 [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 12:42 PM, Tom Bongiorno <tbjr@bongohut.com> wrote:
> Outside of our niche group, MythTV users and the like, who is creating their
> own MPEG2 content?

Anyone wishing to mail a DVD to grand-ma? Some people aren't very
tech savy but can manage to stick a disc in a player.

Eric
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