Mailing List Archive

18.04.1 upgrade and old Nvidia drivers
I just got the notification today that I can upgrade my MythTV box
from Ubuntu 16.04 to 18.04.1. But in researching and testing the
upgrade, I have come across a serious problem for boxes that are using
old Nvidia drivers, like my mother's. Her box needs the Nvidia 304
series drivers, which are no longer supported by Nvidia:

https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3142/~/support-timeframes-for-unix-legacy-gpu-releases

As a result of the support having been dropped, the 304 drivers
apparently do not compile against the 4.15 series kernels used in
18.04.1, and as a result of that, Ubuntu has dropped the Nvidia 304
driver packages. There are web pages that tell you how to install the
304 drivers by downloading them from Nvidia and patching them before
installing. I have not tried this yet, and it will certainly
complicate doing kernel updates, unless I can work out how to automate
it using DKMS.

The implications for doing an 18.04.1 upgrade are also nasty. You
will probably need to remove the Nvidia drivers and switch back to the
Nouveau drivers before doing the upgrade. The Nouveau drivers have
now got VDPAU support, but I have not tried using them with MythTV.
Last I heard, a couple of years ago, Nouveau+VDPAU did not work as
well with MythTV as it should. But it would be worth trying again now
to see if it was OK - if so, that might be the best path forwards for
MythTV boxes with old Nvidia cards.

This same problem will hit users of Nvidia cards using the 340 drivers
(such as my GT 220 cards) at the end of 2019 when Nvidia stops support
for them also. Nvidia seems to be thinking that all its older GPUs
are no longer being used. That may well be the case for video cards
with fans, but my fanless ones, and my mother's motherboard builtin
GPU, are still going just fine after more than 8 years 24/7.

_______________________________________________
mythtvnz mailing list
mythtvnz@lists.ourshack.com
https://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
Re: 18.04.1 upgrade and old Nvidia drivers [ In reply to ]
-----Original Message-----
From: mythtvnz <mythtvnz-bounces@lists.ourshack.com> On Behalf Of Stephen Worthington
Sent: Wednesday, 15 August 2018 5:06 PM
To: mythtvnz@lists.linuxnut.co.nz
Subject: [mythtvnz] 18.04.1 upgrade and old Nvidia drivers

I just got the notification today that I can upgrade my MythTV box from Ubuntu 16.04 to 18.04.1. But in researching and testing the upgrade, I have come across a serious problem for boxes that are using old Nvidia drivers, like my mother's. Her box needs the Nvidia 304 series drivers, which are no longer supported by Nvidia:

https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3142/~/support-timeframes-for-unix-legacy-gpu-releases

As a result of the support having been dropped, the 304 drivers apparently do not compile against the 4.15 series kernels used in 18.04.1, and as a result of that, Ubuntu has dropped the Nvidia 304 driver packages. There are web pages that tell you how to install the
304 drivers by downloading them from Nvidia and patching them before installing. I have not tried this yet, and it will certainly complicate doing kernel updates, unless I can work out how to automate it using DKMS.

The implications for doing an 18.04.1 upgrade are also nasty. You will probably need to remove the Nvidia drivers and switch back to the Nouveau drivers before doing the upgrade. The Nouveau drivers have now got VDPAU support, but I have not tried using them with MythTV.
Last I heard, a couple of years ago, Nouveau+VDPAU did not work as well with MythTV as it should. But it would be worth trying again now to see if it was OK - if so, that might be the best path forwards for MythTV boxes with old Nvidia cards.

This same problem will hit users of Nvidia cards using the 340 drivers (such as my GT 220 cards) at the end of 2019 when Nvidia stops support for them also. Nvidia seems to be thinking that all its older GPUs are no longer being used. That may well be the case for video cards with fans, but my fanless ones, and my mother's motherboard builtin GPU, are still going just fine after more than 8 years 24/7.

_______________________________________________

Damn, looks like our primary TV box with its old ION chipset will be caught up in the 2019 support drop.



_______________________________________________
mythtvnz mailing list
mythtvnz@lists.ourshack.com
https://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
Re: 18.04.1 upgrade and old Nvidia drivers [ In reply to ]
-----Original Message-----
From: mythtvnz <mythtvnz-bounces@lists.ourshack.com> On Behalf Of Stephen Worthington
Sent: Wednesday, 15 August 2018 5:06 PM
To: mythtvnz@lists.linuxnut.co.nz
Subject: [mythtvnz] 18.04.1 upgrade and old Nvidia drivers

I just got the notification today that I can upgrade my MythTV box from Ubuntu 16.04 to 18.04.1. But in researching and testing the upgrade, I have come across a serious problem for boxes that are using old Nvidia drivers, like my mother's. Her box needs the Nvidia 304 series drivers, which are no longer supported by Nvidia:

https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3142/~/support-timeframes-for-unix-legacy-gpu-releases

As a result of the support having been dropped, the 304 drivers apparently do not compile against the 4.15 series kernels used in 18.04.1, and as a result of that, Ubuntu has dropped the Nvidia 304 driver packages. There are web pages that tell you how to install the
304 drivers by downloading them from Nvidia and patching them before installing. I have not tried this yet, and it will certainly complicate doing kernel updates, unless I can work out how to automate it using DKMS.

The implications for doing an 18.04.1 upgrade are also nasty. You will probably need to remove the Nvidia drivers and switch back to the Nouveau drivers before doing the upgrade. The Nouveau drivers have now got VDPAU support, but I have not tried using them with MythTV.
Last I heard, a couple of years ago, Nouveau+VDPAU did not work as well with MythTV as it should. But it would be worth trying again now to see if it was OK - if so, that might be the best path forwards for MythTV boxes with old Nvidia cards.

This same problem will hit users of Nvidia cards using the 340 drivers (such as my GT 220 cards) at the end of 2019 when Nvidia stops support for them also. Nvidia seems to be thinking that all its older GPUs are no longer being used. That may well be the case for video cards with fans, but my fanless ones, and my mother's motherboard builtin GPU, are still going just fine after more than 8 years 24/7.

_______________________________________________

Damn, looks like our primary TV box with its old ION chipset will be caught up in the 2019 support drop.



_______________________________________________
mythtvnz mailing list
mythtvnz@lists.ourshack.com
https://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
Re: 18.04.1 upgrade and old Nvidia drivers [ In reply to ]
On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 at 17:07, Stephen Worthington
<stephen_agent@jsw.gen.nz> wrote:
>
> I just got the notification today that I can upgrade my MythTV box
> from Ubuntu 16.04 to 18.04.1. But in researching and testing the
> upgrade, I have come across a serious problem for boxes that are using
> old Nvidia drivers, like my mother's. Her box needs the Nvidia 304
> series drivers, which are no longer supported by Nvidia:
>
> https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3142/~/support-timeframes-for-unix-legacy-gpu-releases
>
> As a result of the support having been dropped, the 304 drivers
> apparently do not compile against the 4.15 series kernels used in
> 18.04.1, and as a result of that, Ubuntu has dropped the Nvidia 304
> driver packages. There are web pages that tell you how to install the
> 304 drivers by downloading them from Nvidia and patching them before
> installing. I have not tried this yet, and it will certainly
> complicate doing kernel updates, unless I can work out how to automate
> it using DKMS.
>
> The implications for doing an 18.04.1 upgrade are also nasty. You
> will probably need to remove the Nvidia drivers and switch back to the
> Nouveau drivers before doing the upgrade. The Nouveau drivers have
> now got VDPAU support, but I have not tried using them with MythTV.
> Last I heard, a couple of years ago, Nouveau+VDPAU did not work as
> well with MythTV as it should. But it would be worth trying again now
> to see if it was OK - if so, that might be the best path forwards for
> MythTV boxes with old Nvidia cards.
>
> This same problem will hit users of Nvidia cards using the 340 drivers
> (such as my GT 220 cards) at the end of 2019 when Nvidia stops support
> for them also. Nvidia seems to be thinking that all its older GPUs
> are no longer being used. That may well be the case for video cards
> with fans, but my fanless ones, and my mother's motherboard builtin
> GPU, are still going just fine after more than 8 years 24/7.
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz@lists.ourshack.com
> https://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/

Nasty. Perhaps a reason to switch to a rolling distro, such as Arch
linux? Although in the past year I've also had to relegate my GTX460
to legacy 390xx-series drivers, which was a pain at the time.

_______________________________________________
mythtvnz mailing list
mythtvnz@lists.ourshack.com
https://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
Re: 18.04.1 upgrade and old Nvidia drivers [ In reply to ]
On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 at 17:07, Stephen Worthington
<stephen_agent@jsw.gen.nz> wrote:
>
> I just got the notification today that I can upgrade my MythTV box
> from Ubuntu 16.04 to 18.04.1. But in researching and testing the
> upgrade, I have come across a serious problem for boxes that are using
> old Nvidia drivers, like my mother's. Her box needs the Nvidia 304
> series drivers, which are no longer supported by Nvidia:
>
> https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3142/~/support-timeframes-for-unix-legacy-gpu-releases
>
> As a result of the support having been dropped, the 304 drivers
> apparently do not compile against the 4.15 series kernels used in
> 18.04.1, and as a result of that, Ubuntu has dropped the Nvidia 304
> driver packages. There are web pages that tell you how to install the
> 304 drivers by downloading them from Nvidia and patching them before
> installing. I have not tried this yet, and it will certainly
> complicate doing kernel updates, unless I can work out how to automate
> it using DKMS.
>
> The implications for doing an 18.04.1 upgrade are also nasty. You
> will probably need to remove the Nvidia drivers and switch back to the
> Nouveau drivers before doing the upgrade. The Nouveau drivers have
> now got VDPAU support, but I have not tried using them with MythTV.
> Last I heard, a couple of years ago, Nouveau+VDPAU did not work as
> well with MythTV as it should. But it would be worth trying again now
> to see if it was OK - if so, that might be the best path forwards for
> MythTV boxes with old Nvidia cards.
>
> This same problem will hit users of Nvidia cards using the 340 drivers
> (such as my GT 220 cards) at the end of 2019 when Nvidia stops support
> for them also. Nvidia seems to be thinking that all its older GPUs
> are no longer being used. That may well be the case for video cards
> with fans, but my fanless ones, and my mother's motherboard builtin
> GPU, are still going just fine after more than 8 years 24/7.
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz@lists.ourshack.com
> https://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/

Nasty. Perhaps a reason to switch to a rolling distro, such as Arch
linux? Although in the past year I've also had to relegate my GTX460
to legacy 390xx-series drivers, which was a pain at the time.

_______________________________________________
mythtvnz mailing list
mythtvnz@lists.ourshack.com
https://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
Re: 18.04.1 upgrade and old Nvidia drivers [ In reply to ]
On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 17:51:57 +1200, you wrote:

>On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 at 17:07, Stephen Worthington
><stephen_agent@jsw.gen.nz> wrote:
>>
>> I just got the notification today that I can upgrade my MythTV box
>> from Ubuntu 16.04 to 18.04.1. But in researching and testing the
>> upgrade, I have come across a serious problem for boxes that are using
>> old Nvidia drivers, like my mother's. Her box needs the Nvidia 304
>> series drivers, which are no longer supported by Nvidia:
>>
>> https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3142/~/support-timeframes-for-unix-legacy-gpu-releases
>>
>> As a result of the support having been dropped, the 304 drivers
>> apparently do not compile against the 4.15 series kernels used in
>> 18.04.1, and as a result of that, Ubuntu has dropped the Nvidia 304
>> driver packages. There are web pages that tell you how to install the
>> 304 drivers by downloading them from Nvidia and patching them before
>> installing. I have not tried this yet, and it will certainly
>> complicate doing kernel updates, unless I can work out how to automate
>> it using DKMS.
>>
>> The implications for doing an 18.04.1 upgrade are also nasty. You
>> will probably need to remove the Nvidia drivers and switch back to the
>> Nouveau drivers before doing the upgrade. The Nouveau drivers have
>> now got VDPAU support, but I have not tried using them with MythTV.
>> Last I heard, a couple of years ago, Nouveau+VDPAU did not work as
>> well with MythTV as it should. But it would be worth trying again now
>> to see if it was OK - if so, that might be the best path forwards for
>> MythTV boxes with old Nvidia cards.
>>
>> This same problem will hit users of Nvidia cards using the 340 drivers
>> (such as my GT 220 cards) at the end of 2019 when Nvidia stops support
>> for them also. Nvidia seems to be thinking that all its older GPUs
>> are no longer being used. That may well be the case for video cards
>> with fans, but my fanless ones, and my mother's motherboard builtin
>> GPU, are still going just fine after more than 8 years 24/7.
>
>Nasty. Perhaps a reason to switch to a rolling distro, such as Arch
>linux? Although in the past year I've also had to relegate my GTX460
>to legacy 390xx-series drivers, which was a pain at the time.

A rolling distro would not help. What is needed is a distro that has
someone who is willing to do the patching required to make the drivers
compile against later kernels. But even that has its limits - once
the kernels change enough that there need to be fixes in the binary
blob parts of the Nvidia drivers, there is no way to fix that without
Nvidia doing it.

_______________________________________________
mythtvnz mailing list
mythtvnz@lists.ourshack.com
https://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
Re: 18.04.1 upgrade and old Nvidia drivers [ In reply to ]
On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 17:51:57 +1200, you wrote:

>Nasty. Perhaps a reason to switch to a rolling distro, such as Arch
>linux? Although in the past year I've also had to relegate my GTX460
>to legacy 390xx-series drivers, which was a pain at the time.

And Nvidia is likely to end-of-life the 390 drivers in another couple
of years also. Maybe this is their way of getting us to all have to
buy new Nvidia cards. If so, they will find that people will be
migrating rapidly to Intel or AMD video cards. Unfortunately, for
MythTV users, that would require significant work by the MythTV devs,
and they have no-one at the moment who is willing and able to do that.

_______________________________________________
mythtvnz mailing list
mythtvnz@lists.ourshack.com
https://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
Re: 18.04.1 upgrade and old Nvidia drivers [ In reply to ]
I haven't used a rolling distro before, but would that actually help,
do they maintain compatibility for everything forever or would a
rolling release just mean that a routine update could drop support for
your graphics card. Which kind of seems worse to me.
On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 5:57 PM Stephen Worthington
<stephen_agent@jsw.gen.nz> wrote:
>
> On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 17:51:57 +1200, you wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 at 17:07, Stephen Worthington
> ><stephen_agent@jsw.gen.nz> wrote:
> >>
> >> I just got the notification today that I can upgrade my MythTV box
> >> from Ubuntu 16.04 to 18.04.1. But in researching and testing the
> >> upgrade, I have come across a serious problem for boxes that are using
> >> old Nvidia drivers, like my mother's. Her box needs the Nvidia 304
> >> series drivers, which are no longer supported by Nvidia:
> >>
> >> https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3142/~/support-timeframes-for-unix-legacy-gpu-releases
> >>
> >> As a result of the support having been dropped, the 304 drivers
> >> apparently do not compile against the 4.15 series kernels used in
> >> 18.04.1, and as a result of that, Ubuntu has dropped the Nvidia 304
> >> driver packages. There are web pages that tell you how to install the
> >> 304 drivers by downloading them from Nvidia and patching them before
> >> installing. I have not tried this yet, and it will certainly
> >> complicate doing kernel updates, unless I can work out how to automate
> >> it using DKMS.
> >>
> >> The implications for doing an 18.04.1 upgrade are also nasty. You
> >> will probably need to remove the Nvidia drivers and switch back to the
> >> Nouveau drivers before doing the upgrade. The Nouveau drivers have
> >> now got VDPAU support, but I have not tried using them with MythTV.
> >> Last I heard, a couple of years ago, Nouveau+VDPAU did not work as
> >> well with MythTV as it should. But it would be worth trying again now
> >> to see if it was OK - if so, that might be the best path forwards for
> >> MythTV boxes with old Nvidia cards.
> >>
> >> This same problem will hit users of Nvidia cards using the 340 drivers
> >> (such as my GT 220 cards) at the end of 2019 when Nvidia stops support
> >> for them also. Nvidia seems to be thinking that all its older GPUs
> >> are no longer being used. That may well be the case for video cards
> >> with fans, but my fanless ones, and my mother's motherboard builtin
> >> GPU, are still going just fine after more than 8 years 24/7.
> >
> >Nasty. Perhaps a reason to switch to a rolling distro, such as Arch
> >linux? Although in the past year I've also had to relegate my GTX460
> >to legacy 390xx-series drivers, which was a pain at the time.
>
> A rolling distro would not help. What is needed is a distro that has
> someone who is willing to do the patching required to make the drivers
> compile against later kernels. But even that has its limits - once
> the kernels change enough that there need to be fixes in the binary
> blob parts of the Nvidia drivers, there is no way to fix that without
> Nvidia doing it.
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz@lists.ourshack.com
> https://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/

_______________________________________________
mythtvnz mailing list
mythtvnz@lists.ourshack.com
https://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
Re: 18.04.1 upgrade and old Nvidia drivers [ In reply to ]
On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 at 18:02, Daniel Hughes <trampster@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I haven't used a rolling distro before, but would that actually help,
> do they maintain compatibility for everything forever or would a
> rolling release just mean that a routine update could drop support for
> your graphics card. Which kind of seems worse to me.
> On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 5:57 PM Stephen Worthington
> <stephen_agent@jsw.gen.nz> wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 17:51:57 +1200, you wrote:
> >
> > >On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 at 17:07, Stephen Worthington
> > ><stephen_agent@jsw.gen.nz> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I just got the notification today that I can upgrade my MythTV box
> > >> from Ubuntu 16.04 to 18.04.1. But in researching and testing the
> > >> upgrade, I have come across a serious problem for boxes that are using
> > >> old Nvidia drivers, like my mother's. Her box needs the Nvidia 304
> > >> series drivers, which are no longer supported by Nvidia:
> > >>
> > >> https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3142/~/support-timeframes-for-unix-legacy-gpu-releases
> > >>
> > >> As a result of the support having been dropped, the 304 drivers
> > >> apparently do not compile against the 4.15 series kernels used in
> > >> 18.04.1, and as a result of that, Ubuntu has dropped the Nvidia 304
> > >> driver packages. There are web pages that tell you how to install the
> > >> 304 drivers by downloading them from Nvidia and patching them before
> > >> installing. I have not tried this yet, and it will certainly
> > >> complicate doing kernel updates, unless I can work out how to automate
> > >> it using DKMS.
> > >>
> > >> The implications for doing an 18.04.1 upgrade are also nasty. You
> > >> will probably need to remove the Nvidia drivers and switch back to the
> > >> Nouveau drivers before doing the upgrade. The Nouveau drivers have
> > >> now got VDPAU support, but I have not tried using them with MythTV.
> > >> Last I heard, a couple of years ago, Nouveau+VDPAU did not work as
> > >> well with MythTV as it should. But it would be worth trying again now
> > >> to see if it was OK - if so, that might be the best path forwards for
> > >> MythTV boxes with old Nvidia cards.
> > >>
> > >> This same problem will hit users of Nvidia cards using the 340 drivers
> > >> (such as my GT 220 cards) at the end of 2019 when Nvidia stops support
> > >> for them also. Nvidia seems to be thinking that all its older GPUs
> > >> are no longer being used. That may well be the case for video cards
> > >> with fans, but my fanless ones, and my mother's motherboard builtin
> > >> GPU, are still going just fine after more than 8 years 24/7.
> > >
> > >Nasty. Perhaps a reason to switch to a rolling distro, such as Arch
> > >linux? Although in the past year I've also had to relegate my GTX460
> > >to legacy 390xx-series drivers, which was a pain at the time.
> >
> > A rolling distro would not help. What is needed is a distro that has
> > someone who is willing to do the patching required to make the drivers
> > compile against later kernels. But even that has its limits - once
> > the kernels change enough that there need to be fixes in the binary
> > blob parts of the Nvidia drivers, there is no way to fix that without
> > Nvidia doing it.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > mythtvnz mailing list
> > mythtvnz@lists.ourshack.com
> > https://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> > Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz@lists.ourshack.com
> https://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/

Well, as Shelley wrote in "Ozymandias", nothing lasts forever,
including workable drivers for old hardware. However, and in reply
also to Steven W, in my decade long experience with Arch, older
hardware remains well supported through official repositories and then
the community through AUR. For official repositories, the drivers are
tested and compiled and updated alongside the kernel and other core
software more regularly than milestone distros, which *is* an
advantage of rolling release.

I am confident that even if NVIDIA EoL's the 340xx or 390xx series of
drivers, then compatibility with the updated kernel would continue.
And how many improvements / enhancements through drivers are we
realistically expecting at this point in 8yr+ old graphics cards (and
are there any real-world security concerns with graphics drivers not
getting patched?)

_______________________________________________
mythtvnz mailing list
mythtvnz@lists.ourshack.com
https://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
Re: 18.04.1 upgrade and old Nvidia drivers [ In reply to ]
On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 18:12:27 +1200, you wrote:


>Well, as Shelley wrote in "Ozymandias", nothing lasts forever,
>including workable drivers for old hardware. However, and in reply
>also to Steven W, in my decade long experience with Arch, older
>hardware remains well supported through official repositories and then
>the community through AUR. For official repositories, the drivers are
>tested and compiled and updated alongside the kernel and other core
>software more regularly than milestone distros, which *is* an
>advantage of rolling release.
>
>I am confident that even if NVIDIA EoL's the 340xx or 390xx series of
>drivers, then compatibility with the updated kernel would continue.
>And how many improvements / enhancements through drivers are we
>realistically expecting at this point in 8yr+ old graphics cards (and
>are there any real-world security concerns with graphics drivers not
>getting patched?)

The EOL for 340 is end of 2019. Realistically, there should be a
couple of years after that where only the supporting code that
interfaces to the kernel will need patching. But as soon as the
kernel makes significant changes to how it does video, that will break
the ability to fix things in only the supporting code, and with Nvidia
not making their proprietary code available and not fixing it
themselves, there will be no way to keep using Nvidia's drivers. So
after that, if you want or need a newer kernel, you will have to use
the Nouveau drivers. Which do not do 3D graphics. And you *will*
need a newer kernel eventually, either for a security fix, or more
likely because you have some new hardware that is not supported in
older kernels (WiFi drivers for you new laptop, for example).

It would be a good idea to ask the Arch maintainers what their policy
on this problem is. Older hardware support is not really something
that they would be doing - it is in the kernel and its drivers, and
the kernel maintainers have a policy that they try not to create any
regressions where older things stop working, and they will normally
fix any that to occur. But that only applies to things the kernel
supports, which does not include Nvidia GPUs.

_______________________________________________
mythtvnz mailing list
mythtvnz@lists.ourshack.com
https://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
Re: 18.04.1 upgrade and old Nvidia drivers [ In reply to ]
On 15/08/18 17:06, Stephen Worthington wrote:
> I just got the notification today that I can upgrade my MythTV box
> from Ubuntu 16.04 to 18.04.1. But in researching and testing the
> upgrade, I have come across a serious problem for boxes that are using
> old Nvidia drivers, like my mother's. Her box needs the Nvidia 304
> series drivers, which are no longer supported by Nvidia:

That is bad.

https://h-node.org/videocards/catalogue/en may be helpful, when
replacing the video card, to find one with proper video support (that
cannot be taken away from you by a corporation's decision)

W

--
If not me then who? If not now then when? If not here then where?
So, here I stand, I can do no other
root@worik.org 021-1680650, (03) 4821804 Aotearoa (New Zealand)

_______________________________________________
mythtvnz mailing list
mythtvnz@lists.ourshack.com
https://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
Re: 18.04.1 upgrade and old Nvidia drivers [ In reply to ]
Even with newer cards the 4.18 changes to memcopy for closed blob drivers
are making nvidia drivers pretty shitty.

390.77 drivers work with 4.18 kernel ; but I am getting (recoverable)oops
with them.

I was using the short lived branch 396.51 - on 4.15-4.17 trouble-free, but
the 390.77 is the only branch that includes patches for the newer memcopy
changes in upstream at the moment.

As for your older cards ; nouveau + gallium is pretty decent these days; to
the point they often are better than the nvidia drivers. I would suggest
putting the effort in to switch to obiaf ppa + nouveau for these.

-Joel



On 15 August 2018 at 17:06, Stephen Worthington <stephen_agent@jsw.gen.nz>
wrote:

> I just got the notification today that I can upgrade my MythTV box
> from Ubuntu 16.04 to 18.04.1. But in researching and testing the
> upgrade, I have come across a serious problem for boxes that are using
> old Nvidia drivers, like my mother's. Her box needs the Nvidia 304
> series drivers, which are no longer supported by Nvidia:
>
> https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3142/~
> /support-timeframes-for-unix-legacy-gpu-releases
>
> As a result of the support having been dropped, the 304 drivers
> apparently do not compile against the 4.15 series kernels used in
> 18.04.1, and as a result of that, Ubuntu has dropped the Nvidia 304
> driver packages. There are web pages that tell you how to install the
> 304 drivers by downloading them from Nvidia and patching them before
> installing. I have not tried this yet, and it will certainly
> complicate doing kernel updates, unless I can work out how to automate
> it using DKMS.
>
> The implications for doing an 18.04.1 upgrade are also nasty. You
> will probably need to remove the Nvidia drivers and switch back to the
> Nouveau drivers before doing the upgrade. The Nouveau drivers have
> now got VDPAU support, but I have not tried using them with MythTV.
> Last I heard, a couple of years ago, Nouveau+VDPAU did not work as
> well with MythTV as it should. But it would be worth trying again now
> to see if it was OK - if so, that might be the best path forwards for
> MythTV boxes with old Nvidia cards.
>
> This same problem will hit users of Nvidia cards using the 340 drivers
> (such as my GT 220 cards) at the end of 2019 when Nvidia stops support
> for them also. Nvidia seems to be thinking that all its older GPUs
> are no longer being used. That may well be the case for video cards
> with fans, but my fanless ones, and my mother's motherboard builtin
> GPU, are still going just fine after more than 8 years 24/7.
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz@lists.ourshack.com
> https://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
>
Re: 18.04.1 upgrade and old Nvidia drivers [ In reply to ]
Even with newer cards the 4.18 changes to memcopy for closed blob drivers
are making nvidia drivers pretty shitty.

390.77 drivers work with 4.18 kernel ; but I am getting (recoverable)oops
with them.

I was using the short lived branch 396.51 - on 4.15-4.17 trouble-free, but
the 390.77 is the only branch that includes patches for the newer memcopy
changes in upstream at the moment.

As for your older cards ; nouveau + gallium is pretty decent these days; to
the point they often are better than the nvidia drivers. I would suggest
putting the effort in to switch to obiaf ppa + nouveau for these.

-Joel



On 15 August 2018 at 17:06, Stephen Worthington <stephen_agent@jsw.gen.nz>
wrote:

> I just got the notification today that I can upgrade my MythTV box
> from Ubuntu 16.04 to 18.04.1. But in researching and testing the
> upgrade, I have come across a serious problem for boxes that are using
> old Nvidia drivers, like my mother's. Her box needs the Nvidia 304
> series drivers, which are no longer supported by Nvidia:
>
> https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3142/~
> /support-timeframes-for-unix-legacy-gpu-releases
>
> As a result of the support having been dropped, the 304 drivers
> apparently do not compile against the 4.15 series kernels used in
> 18.04.1, and as a result of that, Ubuntu has dropped the Nvidia 304
> driver packages. There are web pages that tell you how to install the
> 304 drivers by downloading them from Nvidia and patching them before
> installing. I have not tried this yet, and it will certainly
> complicate doing kernel updates, unless I can work out how to automate
> it using DKMS.
>
> The implications for doing an 18.04.1 upgrade are also nasty. You
> will probably need to remove the Nvidia drivers and switch back to the
> Nouveau drivers before doing the upgrade. The Nouveau drivers have
> now got VDPAU support, but I have not tried using them with MythTV.
> Last I heard, a couple of years ago, Nouveau+VDPAU did not work as
> well with MythTV as it should. But it would be worth trying again now
> to see if it was OK - if so, that might be the best path forwards for
> MythTV boxes with old Nvidia cards.
>
> This same problem will hit users of Nvidia cards using the 340 drivers
> (such as my GT 220 cards) at the end of 2019 when Nvidia stops support
> for them also. Nvidia seems to be thinking that all its older GPUs
> are no longer being used. That may well be the case for video cards
> with fans, but my fanless ones, and my mother's motherboard builtin
> GPU, are still going just fine after more than 8 years 24/7.
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz@lists.ourshack.com
> https://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
>