Mailing List Archive

Hi Peter,

Here is some feedback on the webapp setup.

It faithfully shows all capture card configuration, help texts, etc. This
will require some synchronization whenever something is changed in
mythtv-setup but I think we can handle that.
On the plus side is also that it starts up fast, in contrast with
mythtv-setup which requires a long to a very long time to start.

There are however also minus points.
The biggest issue is, I think, the integration with the backend.
For example, I could effortlessly remove a capture card that was actually
being used for making a recording at that very moment.
This should not be possible.
But in general, the backend assumes that the database does not change while
it is running. At the start of the backend the database is read and it is
assumed that configuration values are not changed on the fly. If you want
to enable/allow that you must ensure that for every item the backend is
handling this correctly.
One way of dealing with this could be to make all the changes in a shadow
database and then on a final "apply" stop the backend, make all the changes
to the real database and then restart the backend.
One comparable GUI interface is the one of the router software DD-WRT. Here
you can make changes on all fields on one page, and then you can decide to
apply and save this, and optionally reboot. Unless you are going to change
the backend for each and every change that you can make I think might be
the way forward.
To summarize, I think that at the moment it is a good tool to view the
configuration but not to make changes to the configuration.

Hope this helps,
Klaas.











On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 at 18:18, Peter Bennett <pb.mythtv@gmail.com> wrote:

> Klaas
>
> I have added recording profiles to the webapp setup. Not done yet is the
> v4l2 part that requires specific hardware.
>
> To run the webapp setup, start mythbackend, navigate to
> http://localhost:6744/
>
> Click the setup icon on the left, he icon that looks like a bunch of
> sticks arranged vertically
>
> The menu corresponds to the mythtv-setup menu Please give me feedback on
> the setup pages and any issues.
>
> Setup is not complete, some capture card types have not been done yet, and
> the last item, system events, still has to be done. Channel scan still has
> to be done.
>
> I notice you may have been making changes to mythtv-setup. The same
> changes will need to be made to the webapp, which is planned to be the new
> setup eventually. Let me know when changes are made, or if you prefer you
> can make the changes in the Angular code in git in
> MythTV/mythtv/mythtv/html/backend/.
>
> Everybody: Feel free to test what I have done and send comments or
> suggestions. I am new to Angular so the code may be strange.
>
> Peter
>

Hi Klaas

Thank you for the feedback.

I started this last year in May when Stuart asked for volunteers to work
on webapp setup. Paul did the Host Address Backend Setup and Locale
Settings and I did the rest.

The intention is for webapp setup to replace mythtv-setup.

mythtv-setup already expects that you shut down the backend. You can run
mythtv-setup without shutting down the backend and you run the same
risks as with the webapp setup.

I have been thinking about how to handle making updates while the
backend is running. I think I will do something like this: If there is a
recording in progress or scheduled soon, do not allow any saves, display
an error message. If there is no recording in progress or scheduled
soon, disable the scheduler so that nothing can record. After the
updates have been done, the backend will have to restart itself. This
will all have to be built into the setup web app with appropriate
notifications to the user. I have not yet figured out how to disable the
scheduler and how to restart the backend.

This is far from ideal but is not worse than the current situation.

I have done all of the pages now, but there are still some parts
missing, some capture card types and recording profiles that require
hardware I do not have. Also channel scan is not yet done.

I did create all of the setups for satellite devices and their
accessories, but I cannot test any of that.

Peter

On 3/21/23 17:01, Klaas de Waal wrote:
> Hi Peter,
>
> Here is some feedback on the webapp setup.
>
> It faithfully shows all capture card configuration, help texts, etc.
> This will require some synchronization whenever something is changed
> in mythtv-setup but I think we can handle that.
> On the plus side is also that it starts up fast, in contrast with
> mythtv-setup which requires a long to a very long time to start.
>
> There are however also minus points.
> The biggest issue is, I think, the integration with the backend.
> For example, I could effortlessly remove a capture card that was
> actually being used for making a recording at that very moment.
> This should not be possible.
> But in general, the backend assumes that the database does not change
> while it is running. At the start of the backend the database is read
> and it is assumed that configuration values are not changed on the
> fly. If you want to enable/allow that you must ensure that for every
> item the backend is handling this correctly.
> One way of dealing with this could be to make all the changes in a
> shadow database and then on a final "apply" stop the backend, make all
> the changes to the real database and then restart the backend.
> One comparable GUI interface is the one of the router software DD-WRT.
> Here you can make changes on all fields on one page, and then you can
> decide to apply and save this, and optionally reboot. Unless you are
> going to change the backend for each and every change that you can
> make I think might be the way forward.
> To summarize, I think that at the moment it is a good tool to view the
> configuration but not to make changes to the configuration.
>
> Hope this helps,
> Klaas.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 at 18:18, Peter Bennett <pb.mythtv@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Klaas
>
> I have added recording profiles to the webapp setup. Not done yet
> is the v4l2 part that requires specific hardware.
>
> To run the webapp setup, start mythbackend, navigate to
> http://localhost:6744/
>
> Click the setup icon on the left, he icon that looks like a bunch
> of sticks arranged vertically
>
> The menu corresponds to the mythtv-setup menu Please give me
> feedback on the setup pages and any issues.
>
> Setup is not complete, some capture card types have not been done
> yet, and the last item, system events, still has to be done.
> Channel scan still has to be done.
>
> I notice you may have been making changes to mythtv-setup. The
> same changes will need to be made to the webapp, which is planned
> to be the new setup eventually. Let me know when changes are made,
> or if you prefer you can make the changes in the Angular code in
> git in MythTV/mythtv/mythtv/html/backend/.
>
> Everybody: Feel free to test what I have done and send comments or
> suggestions. I am new to Angular so the code may be strange.
>
> Peter
>

Hi Peter,

I am thinking about a Github issue for the webapp. This is a bit more
permanent than the mailing list and it is possible to add attachments such
as screen shots. I think I can contribute at the moment by reviewing and
making suggestions but they will come in small pieces and not in one large
review. A Github issue is a good point where contributions from me and from
others can be collected.
What do you think?

Klaas.



On Wed, 22 Mar 2023 at 01:15, Peter Bennett <pb.mythtv@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Klaas
>
> Thank you for the feedback.
>
> I started this last year in May when Stuart asked for volunteers to work
> on webapp setup. Paul did the Host Address Backend Setup and Locale
> Settings and I did the rest.
>
> The intention is for webapp setup to replace mythtv-setup.
>
> mythtv-setup already expects that you shut down the backend. You can run
> mythtv-setup without shutting down the backend and you run the same risks
> as with the webapp setup.
>
> I have been thinking about how to handle making updates while the backend
> is running. I think I will do something like this: If there is a recording
> in progress or scheduled soon, do not allow any saves, display an error
> message. If there is no recording in progress or scheduled soon, disable
> the scheduler so that nothing can record. After the updates have been done,
> the backend will have to restart itself. This will all have to be built
> into the setup web app with appropriate notifications to the user. I have
> not yet figured out how to disable the scheduler and how to restart the
> backend.
>
> This is far from ideal but is not worse than the current situation.
> I have done all of the pages now, but there are still some parts missing,
> some capture card types and recording profiles that require hardware I do
> not have. Also channel scan is not yet done.
>
> I did create all of the setups for satellite devices and their
> accessories, but I cannot test any of that.
>
> Peter
> On 3/21/23 17:01, Klaas de Waal wrote:
>
> Hi Peter,
>
> Here is some feedback on the webapp setup.
>
> It faithfully shows all capture card configuration, help texts, etc. This
> will require some synchronization whenever something is changed in
> mythtv-setup but I think we can handle that.
> On the plus side is also that it starts up fast, in contrast with
> mythtv-setup which requires a long to a very long time to start.
>
> There are however also minus points.
> The biggest issue is, I think, the integration with the backend.
> For example, I could effortlessly remove a capture card that was actually
> being used for making a recording at that very moment.
> This should not be possible.
> But in general, the backend assumes that the database does not change
> while it is running. At the start of the backend the database is read and
> it is assumed that configuration values are not changed on the fly. If you
> want to enable/allow that you must ensure that for every item the backend
> is handling this correctly.
> One way of dealing with this could be to make all the changes in a shadow
> database and then on a final "apply" stop the backend, make all the changes
> to the real database and then restart the backend.
> One comparable GUI interface is the one of the router software DD-WRT.
> Here you can make changes on all fields on one page, and then you can
> decide to apply and save this, and optionally reboot. Unless you are going
> to change the backend for each and every change that you can make I think
> might be the way forward.
> To summarize, I think that at the moment it is a good tool to view the
> configuration but not to make changes to the configuration.
>
> Hope this helps,
> Klaas.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 at 18:18, Peter Bennett <pb.mythtv@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Klaas
>>
>> I have added recording profiles to the webapp setup. Not done yet is the
>> v4l2 part that requires specific hardware.
>>
>> To run the webapp setup, start mythbackend, navigate to
>> http://localhost:6744/
>>
>> Click the setup icon on the left, he icon that looks like a bunch of
>> sticks arranged vertically
>>
>> The menu corresponds to the mythtv-setup menu Please give me feedback on
>> the setup pages and any issues.
>>
>> Setup is not complete, some capture card types have not been done yet,
>> and the last item, system events, still has to be done. Channel scan still
>> has to be done.
>>
>> I notice you may have been making changes to mythtv-setup. The same
>> changes will need to be made to the webapp, which is planned to be the new
>> setup eventually. Let me know when changes are made, or if you prefer you
>> can make the changes in the Angular code in git in
>> MythTV/mythtv/mythtv/html/backend/.
>>
>> Everybody: Feel free to test what I have done and send comments or
>> suggestions. I am new to Angular so the code may be strange.
>>
>> Peter
>>
>

Hi Klaas

I think that is a good idea. I looked at github and I found there is
already a project set up and an issue for the webapp setup.

_Project_
https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/projects/5

_Issue_
https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/issues/239

I updated the issue with my latest status and we can use it to track
comments.

Peter

On 3/23/23 14:10, Klaas de Waal wrote:
> Hi Peter,
>
> I am thinking about a Github issue for the webapp. This is a bit more
> permanent than the mailing list and it is possible to add
> attachments such as screen shots. I think I can contribute at the
> moment by reviewing and making suggestions but they will come in small
> pieces and not in one large review. A Github issue is a good point
> where contributions from me and from others can be collected.
> What do you think?
>
> Klaas.
>
>
>
> On Wed, 22 Mar 2023 at 01:15, Peter Bennett <pb.mythtv@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Klaas
>
> Thank you for the feedback.
>
> I started this last year in May when Stuart asked for volunteers
> to work on webapp setup. Paul did the Host Address Backend Setup
> and Locale Settings and I did the rest.
>
> The intention is for webapp setup to replace mythtv-setup.
>
> mythtv-setup already expects that you shut down the backend. You
> can run mythtv-setup without shutting down the backend and you run
> the same risks as with the webapp setup.
>
> I have been thinking about how to handle making updates while the
> backend is running. I think I will do something like this: If
> there is a recording in progress or scheduled soon, do not allow
> any saves, display an error message. If there is no recording in
> progress or scheduled soon, disable the scheduler so that nothing
> can record. After the updates have been done, the backend will
> have to restart itself. This will all have to be built into the
> setup web app with appropriate notifications to the user. I have
> not yet figured out how to disable the scheduler and how to
> restart the backend.
>
> This is far from ideal but is not worse than the current situation.
>
> I have done all of the pages now, but there are still some parts
> missing, some capture card types and recording profiles that
> require hardware I do not have. Also channel scan is not yet done.
>
> I did create all of the setups for satellite devices and their
> accessories, but I cannot test any of that.
>
> Peter
>
> On 3/21/23 17:01, Klaas de Waal wrote:
>> Hi Peter,
>>
>> Here is some feedback on the webapp setup.
>>
>> It faithfully shows all capture card configuration, help texts,
>> etc. This will require some synchronization whenever something is
>> changed in mythtv-setup but I think we can handle that.
>> On the plus side is also that it starts up fast, in  contrast
>> with mythtv-setup which requires a long to a very long time to start.
>>
>> There are however also minus points.
>> The biggest issue is, I think, the integration with the backend.
>> For example, I could effortlessly remove a capture card that was
>> actually being used for making a recording at that very moment.
>> This should not be possible.
>> But in general, the backend assumes that the database does not
>> change while it is running. At the start of the backend the
>> database is read and it is assumed that configuration values are
>> not changed on the fly. If you want to enable/allow that you must
>> ensure that for every item the backend is handling this correctly.
>> One way of dealing with this could be to make all the changes in
>> a shadow database and then on a final "apply" stop the backend,
>> make all the changes to the real database and then restart the
>> backend.
>> One comparable GUI interface is the one of the router software
>> DD-WRT. Here you can make changes on all fields on one page, and
>> then you can decide to apply and save this, and optionally
>> reboot. Unless you are going to change the backend for each and
>> every change that you can make I think might be the way forward.
>> To summarize, I think that at the moment it is a good tool to
>> view the configuration but not to make changes to the configuration.
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>> Klaas.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 at 18:18, Peter Bennett <pb.mythtv@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Klaas
>>
>> I have added recording profiles to the webapp setup. Not done
>> yet is the v4l2 part that requires specific hardware.
>>
>> To run the webapp setup, start mythbackend, navigate to
>> http://localhost:6744/
>>
>> Click the setup icon on the left, he icon that looks like a
>> bunch of sticks arranged vertically
>>
>> The menu corresponds to the mythtv-setup menu Please give me
>> feedback on the setup pages and any issues.
>>
>> Setup is not complete, some capture card types have not been
>> done yet, and the last item, system events, still has to be
>> done. Channel scan still has to be done.
>>
>> I notice you may have been making changes to mythtv-setup.
>> The same changes will need to be made to the webapp, which is
>> planned to be the new setup eventually. Let me know when
>> changes are made, or if you prefer you can make the changes
>> in the Angular code in git in MythTV/mythtv/mythtv/html/backend/.
>>
>> Everybody: Feel free to test what I have done and send
>> comments or suggestions. I am new to Angular so the code may
>> be strange.
>>
>> Peter
>>