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Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT] [ In reply to ]
Joseph He wrote:
> My company uses Perl for web development. It handles real time payment
> transactions without any problem. Good software is made by the people
> not by the language.

Maybe I am weak on this point, but how perl handle types more strictly?
for example,

123 + '456'

this is permitted in perl, and this is dangerous. It is not possible in
other strong types language.

Thanks.
Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT] [ In reply to ]
Hi

Mark Blackman wrote:
> mod_perl’s relative efficiency can be achieved by other well-known means.

for example?

thank you.
Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT] [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Aug 04, 2020 at 09:48:48PM +0100, Mark Blackman wrote:
>
>
> > On 4 Aug 2020, at 21:41, Mithun Bhattacharya <mithnb@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I am genuinely curious what are these other "well known" means ?
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 3:37 PM Mark Blackman <mark@blackmans.org <mailto:mark@blackmans.org>> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > On 4 Aug 2020, at 17:58, Mithun Bhattacharya <mithnb@gmail.com <mailto:mithnb@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > >
> > > mod_perl does have value because it does a more efficient utilization of resources - this is important when fast response time and scalability is important. The complexity is a known problem but it is not a mystery box either - there is enough documentation which explains what has to happen and what could have gone wrong.
> >
> > mod_perl’s relative efficiency can be achieved by other well-known means.
>
> That would depend on what you mean by "efficient utilisation of resources”. You can get the same general effect, more simply, by running a high-performing pre-forking Perl web application server and a web server with a simple configuration in front of it ,instead of a complicated Apache+mod_perl installation.
>
> That also buys you a nice separation of concerns, the web server handles all the complicated host or path rewrites and access control and the Perl app focuses on responding to the, now-sanitised, fully normalized, HTTP requests.
>

Not really and the separtion is not a concern, it is an asset, the most
important one.

To get faster, you would need to move off apache.


> - Mark
>
>
>

--
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com

Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013
Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT] [ In reply to ]
Just because the language lets you to relax doesn't mean you
shouldn't apply strict validation of all data being worked on :) I don't
care about it in a two line cron job but more critical components spend a
lot of time on data validation - I am pretty much working in paranoid mode.

If you use Moose you can automatically apply data type checking.

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 7:47 PM Wesley Peng <me@yonghua.org> wrote:

>
>
> Joseph He wrote:
> > My company uses Perl for web development. It handles real time payment
> > transactions without any problem. Good software is made by the people
> > not by the language.
>
> Maybe I am weak on this point, but how perl handle types more strictly?
> for example,
>
> 123 + '456'
>
> this is permitted in perl, and this is dangerous. It is not possible in
> other strong types language.
>
> Thanks.
>
Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT] [ In reply to ]
The question is move off to what ? I don't see alternatives being shared
which blows an apache+mod_perl setup out of the water.

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 7:56 PM Ruben Safir <ruben@mrbrklyn.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 04, 2020 at 09:48:48PM +0100, Mark Blackman wrote:
> >
> >
> > > On 4 Aug 2020, at 21:41, Mithun Bhattacharya <mithnb@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > I am genuinely curious what are these other "well known" means ?
> > >
> > > On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 3:37 PM Mark Blackman <mark@blackmans.org
> <mailto:mark@blackmans.org>> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > > On 4 Aug 2020, at 17:58, Mithun Bhattacharya <mithnb@gmail.com
> <mailto:mithnb@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > mod_perl does have value because it does a more efficient
> utilization of resources - this is important when fast response time and
> scalability is important. The complexity is a known problem but it is not a
> mystery box either - there is enough documentation which explains what has
> to happen and what could have gone wrong.
> > >
> > > mod_perl’s relative efficiency can be achieved by other well-known
> means.
> >
> > That would depend on what you mean by "efficient utilisation of
> resources”. You can get the same general effect, more simply, by running a
> high-performing pre-forking Perl web application server and a web server
> with a simple configuration in front of it ,instead of a complicated
> Apache+mod_perl installation.
> >
> > That also buys you a nice separation of concerns, the web server handles
> all the complicated host or path rewrites and access control and the Perl
> app focuses on responding to the, now-sanitised, fully normalized, HTTP
> requests.
> >
>
> Not really and the separtion is not a concern, it is an asset, the most
> important one.
>
> To get faster, you would need to move off apache.
>
>
> > - Mark
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
> that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
> proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
> http://www.mrbrklyn.com
>
> DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
> http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
> http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
> http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
> http://www.brooklyn-living.com
>
> Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and extermination camps,
> but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013
>
>
Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT] [ In reply to ]
On Wed, Aug 05, 2020 at 10:32:39AM +1000, dcook@prosentient.com.au wrote:
> I don't really see the utility of this thread, since these are just circular
> arguments based primarily on opinion, and no one is going to convince
> someone else that their opinion is wrong.
>
> That said, I'll just point out one thing about the earlier comment "How many
> platforms can survive 30 years. Mod_Perl/Apache."
>
> Mod_perl is 24 years old (http://perl.apache.org/about/history.html), Apache
> httpd is 25 years old (https://httpd.apache.org/ABOUT_APACHE.html), and Perl
> is roughly 32 years old (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perl).
>
> At this point, no Mod_Perl/Apache platforms has survived 30 years. I have 1
> Mod_Perl/Apache platform left and it is about 9 years old, and its lifespan
> is currently based on inertia.

When one reads replies like this you tend to just /dev/null to sender
and shrug your shoulders.

Thanks for working out the exact math for us. Your points are
excellent.
Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT] [ In reply to ]
Mod Perl is awesome. That said, the cool kids today are all about Plack.

Google: Dancer, Mojolicious, Catalyst. These allow you to plugin to all
parts of the HTTP protocol, but obviously not to modify apache
configuration.
Excelent, stable, FAST, production ready HTTP server: Starman
Even faster, but not as proven: Twiggy.

The most common setup would be with an Nginx process in front.

I had a hard time accepting this was a good configuration because for 20
years I had thought of webservers as big giant compiled systems (apache),
but apparently you can now create something just as fast in Perl.



On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 5:59 PM Mithun Bhattacharya <mithnb@gmail.com> wrote:

> The question is move off to what ? I don't see alternatives being shared
> which blows an apache+mod_perl setup out of the water.
>
> On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 7:56 PM Ruben Safir <ruben@mrbrklyn.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Aug 04, 2020 at 09:48:48PM +0100, Mark Blackman wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > > On 4 Aug 2020, at 21:41, Mithun Bhattacharya <mithnb@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > I am genuinely curious what are these other "well known" means ?
>> > >
>> > > On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 3:37 PM Mark Blackman <mark@blackmans.org
>> <mailto:mark@blackmans.org>> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > On 4 Aug 2020, at 17:58, Mithun Bhattacharya <mithnb@gmail.com
>> <mailto:mithnb@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > mod_perl does have value because it does a more efficient
>> utilization of resources - this is important when fast response time and
>> scalability is important. The complexity is a known problem but it is not a
>> mystery box either - there is enough documentation which explains what has
>> to happen and what could have gone wrong.
>> > >
>> > > mod_perl’s relative efficiency can be achieved by other well-known
>> means.
>> >
>> > That would depend on what you mean by "efficient utilisation of
>> resources”. You can get the same general effect, more simply, by running a
>> high-performing pre-forking Perl web application server and a web server
>> with a simple configuration in front of it ,instead of a complicated
>> Apache+mod_perl installation.
>> >
>> > That also buys you a nice separation of concerns, the web server
>> handles all the complicated host or path rewrites and access control and
>> the Perl app focuses on responding to the, now-sanitised, fully normalized,
>> HTTP requests.
>> >
>>
>> Not really and the separtion is not a concern, it is an asset, the most
>> important one.
>>
>> To get faster, you would need to move off apache.
>>
>>
>> > - Mark
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> --
>> So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
>> that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
>> proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
>> http://www.mrbrklyn.com
>>
>> DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
>> http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
>> http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
>> http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
>> http://www.brooklyn-living.com
>>
>> Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and extermination camps,
>> but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013
>>
>>
Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT] [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Aug 04, 2020 at 07:59:01PM -0500, Mithun Bhattacharya wrote:
> The question is move off to what ? I don't see alternatives being shared
> which blows an apache+mod_perl setup out of the water.
>


Maybe JBoss

really there is none. mod_perl turns apache into an application server,
and there is not much like it, where it can get you right into the heart
of the Apache response cycle.

If you want something that talks to 3 jsom servers and exposes your data
all over the net, you can do this with mod_perl, but it is not something
that would interest most mod_perl coders.


> On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 7:56 PM Ruben Safir <ruben@mrbrklyn.com> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Aug 04, 2020 at 09:48:48PM +0100, Mark Blackman wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > > On 4 Aug 2020, at 21:41, Mithun Bhattacharya <mithnb@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I am genuinely curious what are these other "well known" means ?
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 3:37 PM Mark Blackman <mark@blackmans.org
> > <mailto:mark@blackmans.org>> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > On 4 Aug 2020, at 17:58, Mithun Bhattacharya <mithnb@gmail.com
> > <mailto:mithnb@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > mod_perl does have value because it does a more efficient
> > utilization of resources - this is important when fast response time and
> > scalability is important. The complexity is a known problem but it is not a
> > mystery box either - there is enough documentation which explains what has
> > to happen and what could have gone wrong.
> > > >
> > > > mod_perl’s relative efficiency can be achieved by other well-known
> > means.
> > >
> > > That would depend on what you mean by "efficient utilisation of
> > resources”. You can get the same general effect, more simply, by running a
> > high-performing pre-forking Perl web application server and a web server
> > with a simple configuration in front of it ,instead of a complicated
> > Apache+mod_perl installation.
> > >
> > > That also buys you a nice separation of concerns, the web server handles
> > all the complicated host or path rewrites and access control and the Perl
> > app focuses on responding to the, now-sanitised, fully normalized, HTTP
> > requests.
> > >
> >
> > Not really and the separtion is not a concern, it is an asset, the most
> > important one.
> >
> > To get faster, you would need to move off apache.
> >
> >
> > > - Mark
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
> > that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
> > proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
> > http://www.mrbrklyn.com
> >
> > DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
> > http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
> > http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
> > http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
> > http://www.brooklyn-living.com
> >
> > Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and extermination camps,
> > but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013
> >
> >

--
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com

Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and extermination camps,
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013
Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT] [ In reply to ]
Haha my service is meant to be a blackbox - of course it talks to three
different REST services :)

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 8:05 PM Ruben Safir <ruben@mrbrklyn.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 04, 2020 at 07:59:01PM -0500, Mithun Bhattacharya wrote:
> > The question is move off to what ? I don't see alternatives being shared
> > which blows an apache+mod_perl setup out of the water.
> >
>
>
> Maybe JBoss
>
> really there is none. mod_perl turns apache into an application server,
> and there is not much like it, where it can get you right into the heart
> of the Apache response cycle.
>
> If you want something that talks to 3 jsom servers and exposes your data
> all over the net, you can do this with mod_perl, but it is not something
> that would interest most mod_perl coders.
>
>
> > On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 7:56 PM Ruben Safir <ruben@mrbrklyn.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, Aug 04, 2020 at 09:48:48PM +0100, Mark Blackman wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > On 4 Aug 2020, at 21:41, Mithun Bhattacharya <mithnb@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I am genuinely curious what are these other "well known" means ?
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 3:37 PM Mark Blackman <mark@blackmans.org
> > > <mailto:mark@blackmans.org>> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > On 4 Aug 2020, at 17:58, Mithun Bhattacharya <mithnb@gmail.com
> > > <mailto:mithnb@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > mod_perl does have value because it does a more efficient
> > > utilization of resources - this is important when fast response time
> and
> > > scalability is important. The complexity is a known problem but it is
> not a
> > > mystery box either - there is enough documentation which explains what
> has
> > > to happen and what could have gone wrong.
> > > > >
> > > > > mod_perl’s relative efficiency can be achieved by other well-known
> > > means.
> > > >
> > > > That would depend on what you mean by "efficient utilisation of
> > > resources”. You can get the same general effect, more simply, by
> running a
> > > high-performing pre-forking Perl web application server and a web
> server
> > > with a simple configuration in front of it ,instead of a complicated
> > > Apache+mod_perl installation.
> > > >
> > > > That also buys you a nice separation of concerns, the web server
> handles
> > > all the complicated host or path rewrites and access control and the
> Perl
> > > app focuses on responding to the, now-sanitised, fully normalized, HTTP
> > > requests.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Not really and the separtion is not a concern, it is an asset, the most
> > > important one.
> > >
> > > To get faster, you would need to move off apache.
> > >
> > >
> > > > - Mark
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
> > > that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
> > > proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
> > > http://www.mrbrklyn.com
> > >
> > > DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
> > > http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
> > > http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
> > > http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
> > > http://www.brooklyn-living.com
> > >
> > > Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and extermination camps,
> > > but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013
> > >
> > >
>
> --
> So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
> that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
> proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
> http://www.mrbrklyn.com
>
> DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
> http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
> http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
> http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
> http://www.brooklyn-living.com
>
> Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and extermination camps,
> but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013
>
>
Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT] [ In reply to ]
jbiskofski wrote:
> Excelent, stable, FAST, production ready HTTP server: Starman

yes starman is good. we use it for rest-api service, the app code is
dancer, whose backend server is starman.

if we need more concurrent handlers, a simple front-proxy like nginx
would be deployed.

regards.
Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT] [ In reply to ]
Mojo is good but it is specifically for fast non blocking services. If you
are trying to pull up old monolithic applications into the service based
world it might take significant rewrite or you use apache/mod_perl :)

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 8:05 PM jbiskofski <jbiskofski@gmail.com> wrote:

> Mod Perl is awesome. That said, the cool kids today are all about Plack.
>
> Google: Dancer, Mojolicious, Catalyst. These allow you to plugin to all
> parts of the HTTP protocol, but obviously not to modify apache
> configuration.
> Excelent, stable, FAST, production ready HTTP server: Starman
> Even faster, but not as proven: Twiggy.
>
> The most common setup would be with an Nginx process in front.
>
> I had a hard time accepting this was a good configuration because for 20
> years I had thought of webservers as big giant compiled systems (apache),
> but apparently you can now create something just as fast in Perl.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 5:59 PM Mithun Bhattacharya <mithnb@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> The question is move off to what ? I don't see alternatives being shared
>> which blows an apache+mod_perl setup out of the water.
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 7:56 PM Ruben Safir <ruben@mrbrklyn.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 04, 2020 at 09:48:48PM +0100, Mark Blackman wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > > On 4 Aug 2020, at 21:41, Mithun Bhattacharya <mithnb@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > I am genuinely curious what are these other "well known" means ?
>>> > >
>>> > > On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 3:37 PM Mark Blackman <mark@blackmans.org
>>> <mailto:mark@blackmans.org>> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > > On 4 Aug 2020, at 17:58, Mithun Bhattacharya <mithnb@gmail.com
>>> <mailto:mithnb@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> > > >
>>> > > > mod_perl does have value because it does a more efficient
>>> utilization of resources - this is important when fast response time and
>>> scalability is important. The complexity is a known problem but it is not a
>>> mystery box either - there is enough documentation which explains what has
>>> to happen and what could have gone wrong.
>>> > >
>>> > > mod_perl’s relative efficiency can be achieved by other well-known
>>> means.
>>> >
>>> > That would depend on what you mean by "efficient utilisation of
>>> resources”. You can get the same general effect, more simply, by running a
>>> high-performing pre-forking Perl web application server and a web server
>>> with a simple configuration in front of it ,instead of a complicated
>>> Apache+mod_perl installation.
>>> >
>>> > That also buys you a nice separation of concerns, the web server
>>> handles all the complicated host or path rewrites and access control and
>>> the Perl app focuses on responding to the, now-sanitised, fully normalized,
>>> HTTP requests.
>>> >
>>>
>>> Not really and the separtion is not a concern, it is an asset, the most
>>> important one.
>>>
>>> To get faster, you would need to move off apache.
>>>
>>>
>>> > - Mark
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>> --
>>> So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
>>> that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
>>> proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
>>> http://www.mrbrklyn.com
>>>
>>> DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
>>> http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
>>> http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive
>>> http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
>>> http://www.brooklyn-living.com
>>>
>>> Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and extermination camps,
>>> but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013
>>>
>>>
Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT] [ In reply to ]
On 04.08.2020 22:48, Mark Blackman wrote:
[...]
> the web server handles all the complicated host or path rewrites and access control and
> the Perl app focuses on responding to the, now-sanitised, fully normalized, HTTP requests.

I'll agree to that, up to a point.

If you just want to write web applications which run in a sanitized, normalised HTTP
environment, then there are plenty of tools available, and your best choice nowadays may
not be perl as a development language.
(*)

Now in the real world, you may often have to do things which do NOT fit in such a
sanitized and normalized environment, and the simplest and most efficient way to do them
may be at the level of the HTTP server itself. And if you are in such a case, and if your
webserver is Apache httpd, then for such things mod_perl has no equivalent (except if you
are very good at writing Apache httpd extensions in C).

And in my experience - although I don't know if this is an advantage or an inconvenient in
a general sense - once you start using mod_perl to resolve such issues, you will be
learning a lot about how Apache httpd works, and how mod_perl fits in it, and you will
start finding out how many of these apparently thorny issues /can/ be handled at the
Apache httpd and mod_perl level, and you will probably never want to go back to work with
another webserver and another scripting language for it.
So be careful : Apache httpd + mod_perl are addictive.


(*) Although if you pick another language, then you would also lose the advantage of the
perl CPAN library which has, *in one place*, something for just about everything you may
ever want to do - including very good documentation on just about everything you may ever
want to do).
If you don't know CPAN, and you do not understand why I'm insisting on it, do the
following experience :
- go to https://metacpan.org/
- in the search box, type a word related to some programming issue which you are currently
having (**)
- then read the descriptions and click on some module which looks interesting for you

In terms of programming, this is as close to Wikipedia as one can get.
Thanks to the hundreds of authors who contributed there over the year, and to their
general care about good documentation.
For me, that alone is already enough justification for using perl.

(**) suggestions, of the top of my head : "covid", "usa", "png", "soap", "ldap",
"calculus", "spanish", "mail", "smtp", "ebay", "dictionary", .. have fun.
Re: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT] [ In reply to ]
In my opinion, no one should build new projects in Perl. The world is
increasingly trending towards parallelism and higher numbers of cpu cores
and Perl is poorly positioned to leverage these advancements. Many of
Perl's dependencies are not thread safe and mod_perl forces you to use
mpm_prefork. My organization has started moving away from Perl to Elixir
for these reasons.

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020, 3:37 AM James Smith <js5@sanger.ac.uk> wrote:

> Perl is a great solution for web development.
>
> Others will disagree but the best way I still believe is using mod_perl -
> but only if you use it's full power - and you probably need a special sort
> of mind set to use - but that can be said for any language.
>
> From experience - it may be fractionally slower than small "standalone"
> apps that dancer etc are good at, but it is (a) much, much more stable
> {dancer etc does not cope well with either large requests or lots of small
> requests}, and (b) if you have a large code base and/or a large number of
> services then it generally uses much less compute power than the others
> {can easily handle multiple services on a single apache instance}
>
> Where it really gains is the hooks into the apache process - being able to
> add functionality easily at any stage in the request process, from path
> translation, AAA stages, pre-processing, to post-processing and logging,
> and also to interact with other languages at any stage - e.g. can handle
> pre-processing & post-processing around a script written in another
> language (e.g. PHP, Java) or produced by another webserver integrated by
> mod_proxy.
>
> It isn't really a framework though like dancer or mojolicious and thus has
> its own advantages and disadvantages.
>
> You would to some extent have to roll your own code to produce the pages
> themselves although there are libraries out there to do lots of it.
>
> We have an in house library whose embryonic stages were written over 20
> years ago - and has now been stable for around 12-13 years and works
> strong...
>
> James
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wesley Peng <me@yonghua.org>
> Sent: 04 August 2020 06:43
> To: modperl@perl.apache.org
> Subject: suggestions for perl as web development language [EXT]
>
> greetings,
>
> My team use all of perl, ruby, python for scripting stuff.
> perl is stronger for system admin tasks, and data analysis etc.
> But for web development, it seems to be not as popular as others.
> It has less selective frameworks, and even we can't get the right people
> to do the webdev job with perl.
> Do you think in today we will give up perl/modperl as web development
> language, and choose the alternatives instead?
>
> Thanks & Regards
>
>
>
>
> --
> The Wellcome Sanger Institute is operated by Genome Research
> Limited, a charity registered in England with number 1021457 and a
> company registered in England with number 2742969, whose registered
> office is 215 Euston Road, London, NW1 2BE.

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