Mailing List Archive

> From: Paul Spencer [mailto:paulspencer@mindspring.com]
>
> I suggest you include ant in the CVS. I believe this is a common
> practice for Jakarta projects.

Just because it is common practice does not mean that it is a good idea.

Why do you think Ant should be included in Lucene's CVS? What would it make
easier?

In the past, Ant was in Lucene's CVS. But all of the developers had a
separate ant installation anyway, both for Lucene and for other projects
they work on. So distributing ant with Lucene was just adding unused code.

Doug

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Doug,

> > I suggest you include ant in the CVS. I believe this is a common
> > practice for Jakarta projects.
>
> Just because it is common practice does not mean that it is a good idea.
>
> Why do you think Ant should be included in Lucene's CVS? What would it make
> easier?
>
> In the past, Ant was in Lucene's CVS. But all of the developers had a
> separate ant installation anyway, both for Lucene and for other projects
> they work on. So distributing ant with Lucene was just adding unused code.

I kind of agree with both sides here. While it's a bit wasteful
to distribute the various tools as part of the Lucene checkout, I know
that I find it quite annoying to check a project out and then have to
go and find, download and install all of the other pieces, tools and
utilities.

What would perhaps make more sense would be an optional checkout
of the necessary tools. It would make even more sense to have a
site-wide jakarta tools checkout as well as a project-specific
optional checkout, but one st at a time.


Steven J. Owens
puff@darksleep.com

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Some of the reasons Ant in included:

1) The "current" downloadable version of ANT may be incompatible
it the project.

2) It remove the question "what version of ant are using?" when
dealing with build problems.

3) Ant is small.

If you are down load the source, you are going to need ant to build.

Paul Spencer

Steven J. Owens wrote:

> Doug,
>
>
>>>I suggest you include ant in the CVS. I believe this is a common
>>>practice for Jakarta projects.
>>>
>>Just because it is common practice does not mean that it is a good idea.
>>
>>Why do you think Ant should be included in Lucene's CVS? What would it make
>>easier?
>>
>>In the past, Ant was in Lucene's CVS. But all of the developers had a
>>separate ant installation anyway, both for Lucene and for other projects
>>they work on. So distributing ant with Lucene was just adding unused code.
>>
>
> I kind of agree with both sides here. While it's a bit wasteful
> to distribute the various tools as part of the Lucene checkout, I know
> that I find it quite annoying to check a project out and then have to
> go and find, download and install all of the other pieces, tools and
> utilities.
>
> What would perhaps make more sense would be an optional checkout
> of the necessary tools. It would make even more sense to have a
> site-wide jakarta tools checkout as well as a project-specific
> optional checkout, but one st at a time.
>
>
> Steven J. Owens
> puff@darksleep.com
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:lucene-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:lucene-user-help@jakarta.apache.org>
>
>



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Carrying binaries in a Jakarta CVS is strongly discouraged. Bundling the
Ant binary would definately raise eyebrows. Most products include Ant
build script, but I doubt that any include the Ant binary. If they do,
they should stop.

There are ongoing discussions of hosting some type of distribution
program so people can easily obtain the latest binary JARs of things
(CJAN), but at this time the universal recommendation would be for
people to download and install something like Ant separately.

At one time, Turbine offered a development kit that bundle various
related things together, but I don't think even that included Ant.

-- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA.
-- Custom Software ~ Technical Services.
-- Tel +1 716 737-3463
-- http://www.husted.com/struts/


Paul Spencer wrote:
>
> I suggest you include ant in the CVS. I believe this is a common
> practice for Jakarta projects.
>
> Paul Spencer

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Paul Spencer wrote:
> Some of the reasons Ant in included:
> 1) The "current" downloadable version of ANT may be incompatible
> it the project.

Jakarta runs GUMP against all the products nightly. If the nightly build
here fails against the nightly build of Ant, it would be reported on the
list in the morning.


> 2) It remove the question "what version of ant are using?" when
> dealing with build problems.

Even if you bundled it, that doesn't mean people would use it, so the
question would still need to be asked.


-- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA.
-- Custom Software ~ Technical Services.
-- Tel +1 716 737-3463
-- http://www.husted.com/struts/

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Actually I believe the Xalan and/or Xerces group bundle Ant because they
want to allow easy modifications of the codebase by savvy developers
avoiding the configuration issues needed to install Ant and get it all set
up properly to build their systems.

But in general, I am not for bundling Ant with projects either since its
something we all should have installed separately anyway.

Erik




----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Husted" <husted@apache.org>
To: "Lucene Users List" <lucene-user@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 5:51 PM
Subject: Re: Include ANT in CVS?


> Carrying binaries in a Jakarta CVS is strongly discouraged. Bundling the
> Ant binary would definately raise eyebrows. Most products include Ant
> build script, but I doubt that any include the Ant binary. If they do,
> they should stop.
>
> There are ongoing discussions of hosting some type of distribution
> program so people can easily obtain the latest binary JARs of things
> (CJAN), but at this time the universal recommendation would be for
> people to download and install something like Ant separately.
>
> At one time, Turbine offered a development kit that bundle various
> related things together, but I don't think even that included Ant.
>
> -- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA.
> -- Custom Software ~ Technical Services.
> -- Tel +1 716 737-3463
> -- http://www.husted.com/struts/
>
>
> Paul Spencer wrote:
> >
> > I suggest you include ant in the CVS. I believe this is a common
> > practice for Jakarta projects.
> >
> > Paul Spencer
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
<mailto:lucene-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
<mailto:lucene-user-help@jakarta.apache.org>
>
>


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The ant-dev team work very hard to maintain backwards compatibility and
anything that breaks a Lucene build will be caught by Gump long before a
release version of Ant or Lucene is made.

All of us doing Java development should have Ant already installed anyway,
no?! :)

Is there something specifically breaking the Lucene build that is Ant
related? If so, what?

Erik

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Spencer" <paulsp@apache.org>
To: "Lucene Users List" <lucene-user@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 5:36 PM
Subject: Re: Include ANT in CVS?


> Some of the reasons Ant in included:
>
> 1) The "current" downloadable version of ANT may be incompatible
> it the project.
>
> 2) It remove the question "what version of ant are using?" when
> dealing with build problems.
>
> 3) Ant is small.
>
> If you are down load the source, you are going to need ant to build.
>
> Paul Spencer
>
> Steven J. Owens wrote:
>
> > Doug,
> >
> >
> >>>I suggest you include ant in the CVS. I believe this is a common
> >>>practice for Jakarta projects.
> >>>
> >>Just because it is common practice does not mean that it is a good idea.
> >>
> >>Why do you think Ant should be included in Lucene's CVS? What would it
make
> >>easier?
> >>
> >>In the past, Ant was in Lucene's CVS. But all of the developers had a
> >>separate ant installation anyway, both for Lucene and for other projects
> >>they work on. So distributing ant with Lucene was just adding unused
code.
> >>
> >
> > I kind of agree with both sides here. While it's a bit wasteful
> > to distribute the various tools as part of the Lucene checkout, I know
> > that I find it quite annoying to check a project out and then have to
> > go and find, download and install all of the other pieces, tools and
> > utilities.
> >
> > What would perhaps make more sense would be an optional checkout
> > of the necessary tools. It would make even more sense to have a
> > site-wide jakarta tools checkout as well as a project-specific
> > optional checkout, but one st at a time.
> >
> >
> > Steven J. Owens
> > puff@darksleep.com
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
<mailto:lucene-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:
<mailto:lucene-user-help@jakarta.apache.org>
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
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> For additional commands, e-mail:
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>
>


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