Mailing List Archive

I was hoping for biker-mice-from-mars. Too wordy?

On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 8:02 AM, Fabio M. Di Nitto <fdinitto at redhat.com> wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> let's open the dance on the new mailing lists..
>
> we still need to define the $subject in order to start merging RAS and
> eliminate dups.
>
> Keeping in mind what we already discussed:
>
> 1) the new agent must have functionalities from both the old ones and
> become a backend/core
>
> 2) the old agents will become frontends to the new one (to retain
> compatibility for a while.
>
> We need to create a new tobenamed/ directory in git that will provide
> the core/new agents.
>
> How about:
>
> 1) core (boring)
> 2) neutral (boring)
> 3) identity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutral_element)
> 4) ph7 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PH)
> 5) dzone (http://stexpanded.wikia.com/wiki/Demilitarized_Zone)
> 6) it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-neutral_pronoun#It)
>
> Please add your suggestion or vote :)
>
> Fabio
> _______________________________________________
> ha-wg-technical mailing list
> ha-wg-technical at lists.linux-foundation.org
> https://lists.linux-foundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ha-wg-technical
>

On 03/14/2011 08:24 AM, Andrew Beekhof wrote:
> I was hoping for biker-mice-from-mars. Too wordy?

Slightly ;)

Fabio

On 2011-03-14T08:02:58, "Fabio M. Di Nitto" <fdinitto at redhat.com> wrote:

> we still need to define the $subject in order to start merging RAS and
> eliminate dups.

Right. We all know that there are only three difficult problems in
software development remaining - naming and off-by-one errors.

It's good to directly start with the most difficult problem ;-)

> 1) core (boring)
> 2) neutral (boring)
> 3) identity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutral_element)
> 4) ph7 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PH)
> 5) dzone (http://stexpanded.wikia.com/wiki/Demilitarized_Zone)
> 6) it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-neutral_pronoun#It)

So, one of the other questions is if we want to give "the" stack that is
discussed/represented on the working group a name, too. It'd definitely
be convenient to have one.

If we do, we probably would want to use that as the provider too.

I can imagine clearing up the "linux-ha" phrase (if we can get it
transfered to the LF) here. It's catchy, descriptive, and still deeply
entrenched despite our attempts to split away from it.

(Since it never was used as a provider name before, it'd still make it
clear that this is a new effort different from "heartbeat".)

The only other alternative that I could think of would be "clusterlabs".



Regards,
Lars

--
Architect Storage/HA, OPS Engineering, Novell, Inc.
SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG N?rnberg)
"Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes." -- Oscar Wilde

On 03/14/2011 10:54 AM, Lars Marowsky-Bree wrote:
> On 2011-03-14T08:02:58, "Fabio M. Di Nitto" <fdinitto at redhat.com> wrote:
>
>> we still need to define the $subject in order to start merging RAS and
>> eliminate dups.
>
> Right. We all know that there are only three difficult problems in
> software development remaining - naming and off-by-one errors.
>
> It's good to directly start with the most difficult problem ;-)
>
>> 1) core (boring)
>> 2) neutral (boring)
>> 3) identity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutral_element)
>> 4) ph7 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PH)
>> 5) dzone (http://stexpanded.wikia.com/wiki/Demilitarized_Zone)
>> 6) it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-neutral_pronoun#It)
>
> So, one of the other questions is if we want to give "the" stack that is
> discussed/represented on the working group a name, too. It'd definitely
> be convenient to have one.
>
> If we do, we probably would want to use that as the provider too.
>
> I can imagine clearing up the "linux-ha" phrase (if we can get it
> transfered to the LF) here. It's catchy, descriptive, and still deeply
> entrenched despite our attempts to split away from it.
>
> (Since it never was used as a provider name before, it'd still make it
> clear that this is a new effort different from "heartbeat".)

The only objection I have to linux-ha is that RAS are used also outside
of linux...

Fabio

On 2011-03-14T11:12:15, "Fabio M. Di Nitto" <fdinitto at redhat.com> wrote:

> > (Since it never was used as a provider name before, it'd still make it
> > clear that this is a new effort different from "heartbeat".)
> The only objection I have to linux-ha is that RAS are used also outside
> of linux...

I'm not sure this really matters. It's still the project they come from,
which other platforms just have to cope with.

Seriously, even on Linux we have code licensed under the BSD license. I
think that's something we can all deal with ;-)

FWIW, I've not seen a meaningful port of The Stack for BSD/Windows in a
long time. (The Stack. Totally unpretentious. Maybe we should go for
that. ;-)

Regards,
Lars

--
Architect Storage/HA, OPS Engineering, Novell, Inc.
SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG N?rnberg)
"Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes." -- Oscar Wilde

On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Lars Marowsky-Bree <lmb at novell.com> wrote:
> On 2011-03-14T11:12:15, "Fabio M. Di Nitto" <fdinitto at redhat.com> wrote:
>
>> > (Since it never was used as a provider name before, it'd still make it
>> > clear that this is a new effort different from "heartbeat".)
>> The only objection I have to linux-ha is that RAS are used also outside
>> of linux...
>
> I'm not sure this really matters. It's still the project they come from,
> which other platforms just have to cope with.
>
> Seriously, even on Linux we have code licensed under the BSD license. I
> think that's something we can all deal with ;-)

How its licensed is one thing, but can you imagine linux vendors
including something called 'bsd-ping' or 'bsd-python' ?
Clearly we're linux focused at the moment, but I'd prefer to not
unduly inhibit the possibility of collaborations in the future.

What about IYOAH: Insert your own acronym here :-)

Or, more seriously: Argon. Its short and an inert gas (continuing
fabio's ph7 theme :-).
Or planet-ha perhaps? Linbit owns the domain already.
Or clusterlabs - which I dont think it too long personally

>
> FWIW, I've not seen a meaningful port of The Stack for BSD/Windows in a
> long time. (The Stack. Totally unpretentious. Maybe we should go for
> that. ;-)
>
> Regards,
> ? ?Lars
>
> --
> Architect Storage/HA, OPS Engineering, Novell, Inc.
> SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG N?rnberg)
> "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes." -- Oscar Wilde
>
> _______________________________________________
> ha-wg-technical mailing list
> ha-wg-technical at lists.linux-foundation.org
> https://lists.linux-foundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ha-wg-technical
>

On 3/14/2011 1:15 PM, Andrew Beekhof wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Lars Marowsky-Bree <lmb at novell.com> wrote:
>> On 2011-03-14T11:12:15, "Fabio M. Di Nitto" <fdinitto at redhat.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> (Since it never was used as a provider name before, it'd still make it
>>>> clear that this is a new effort different from "heartbeat".)
>>> The only objection I have to linux-ha is that RAS are used also outside
>>> of linux...
>>
>> I'm not sure this really matters. It's still the project they come from,
>> which other platforms just have to cope with.
>>
>> Seriously, even on Linux we have code licensed under the BSD license. I
>> think that's something we can all deal with ;-)
>
> How its licensed is one thing, but can you imagine linux vendors
> including something called 'bsd-ping' or 'bsd-python' ?
> Clearly we're linux focused at the moment, but I'd prefer to not
> unduly inhibit the possibility of collaborations in the future.
>
> What about IYOAH: Insert your own acronym here :-)
>
> Or, more seriously: Argon. Its short and an inert gas (continuing
> fabio's ph7 theme :-).
> Or planet-ha perhaps? Linbit owns the domain already.
> Or clusterlabs - which I dont think it too long personally

argon +1

Fabio

On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 4:18 PM, Fabio M. Di Nitto <fdinitto at redhat.com> wrote:

> argon +1

that was worth the wait ;-)

On 2011-03-14T16:18:13, "Fabio M. Di Nitto" <fdinitto at redhat.com> wrote:

> > Or, more seriously: Argon. Its short and an inert gas (continuing
> > fabio's ph7 theme :-).
> > Or planet-ha perhaps? Linbit owns the domain already.
> > Or clusterlabs - which I dont think it too long personally
> argon +1

You're serious about this "omfg it mustn't have linux in it", aren't
you. ;-)

But no, I'd prefer not to have a code name that noone can't relate to
the project. From that list, I prefer "clusterlabs". It's also already
associated with the project.

What's worth throwing into the ring is "opencf" ("open clustering
framework"), or even the "ocf" abbreviation. That _is_ already
associated with the project too, and is extremely short?



Regards,
Lars

--
Architect Storage/HA, OPS Engineering, Novell, Inc.
SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG N?rnberg)
"Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes." -- Oscar Wilde

On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 9:54 PM, Lars Marowsky-Bree <lmb at novell.com> wrote:
> On 2011-03-14T16:18:13, "Fabio M. Di Nitto" <fdinitto at redhat.com> wrote:
>
>> > Or, more seriously: Argon. ?Its short and an inert gas (continuing
>> > fabio's ph7 theme :-).
>> > Or planet-ha perhaps? ?Linbit owns the domain already.
>> > Or clusterlabs - which I dont think it too long personally
>> argon +1
>
> You're serious about this "omfg it mustn't have linux in it", aren't
> you. ;-)

not "omfg", just "lets see if we can avoid going there".

>
> But no, I'd prefer not to have a code name that noone can't relate to
> the project. From that list, I prefer "clusterlabs". It's also already
> associated with the project.
>
> What's worth throwing into the ring is "opencf" ("open clustering
> framework"), or even the "ocf" abbreviation. That _is_ already
> associated with the project too, and is extremely short?

ocf:ocf:foo seems redundantly redundant :-)

>
>
>
> Regards,
> ? ?Lars
>
> --
> Architect Storage/HA, OPS Engineering, Novell, Inc.
> SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG N?rnberg)
> "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes." -- Oscar Wilde
>
> _______________________________________________
> ha-wg-technical mailing list
> ha-wg-technical at lists.linux-foundation.org
> https://lists.linux-foundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ha-wg-technical
>

On 2011-03-15T22:20:06, Andrew Beekhof <andrew at beekhof.net> wrote:

> > What's worth throwing into the ring is "opencf" ("open clustering
> > framework"), or even the "ocf" abbreviation. That _is_ already
> > associated with the project too, and is extremely short?
> ocf:ocf:foo seems redundantly redundant :-)

That's a presentation thingy though. For that case, we could have the
shell shorten it to just "ocf:foo" trivially enough.


Regards,
Lars

--
Architect Storage/HA, OPS Engineering, Novell, Inc.
SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG N?rnberg)
"Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes." -- Oscar Wilde

What about "clabs" ?

ocf:clabs:foo

On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 5:23 PM, Lars Marowsky-Bree <lmb at novell.com> wrote:

> On 2011-03-15T22:20:06, Andrew Beekhof <andrew at beekhof.net> wrote:
>
> > > What's worth throwing into the ring is "opencf" ("open clustering
> > > framework"), or even the "ocf" abbreviation. That _is_ already
> > > associated with the project too, and is extremely short?
> > ocf:ocf:foo seems redundantly redundant :-)
>
> That's a presentation thingy though. For that case, we could have the
> shell shorten it to just "ocf:foo" trivially enough.
>
>
> Regards,
> Lars
>
> --
> Architect Storage/HA, OPS Engineering, Novell, Inc.
> SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG N?rnberg)
> "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes." -- Oscar Wilde
>
> _______________________________________________
> ha-wg-technical mailing list
> ha-wg-technical at lists.linux-foundation.org
> https://lists.linux-foundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ha-wg-technical
>



--
Andres Rodriguez (RoAkSoAx)
Ubuntu Server Developer
Systems Engineer
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.linux-foundation.org/pipermail/ha-wg-technical/attachments/20110315/65dff3d7/attachment.htm

On 2011-03-15T17:25:44, Andres Rodriguez <andreserl at ubuntu.com> wrote:

> What about "clabs" ?
>
> ocf:clabs:foo

The clabs.org domain is already taken.



Regards,
Lars

--
Architect Storage/HA, OPS Engineering, Novell, Inc.
SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG N?rnberg)
"Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes." -- Oscar Wilde

Even though I prefer clusterlabs, other choices that come into my mind are:

halabs
hawg

Cheers,
On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 5:28 PM, Lars Marowsky-Bree <lmb at novell.com> wrote:

> On 2011-03-15T17:25:44, Andres Rodriguez <andreserl at ubuntu.com> wrote:
>
> > What about "clabs" ?
> >
> > ocf:clabs:foo
>
> The clabs.org domain is already taken.
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Lars
>
> --
> Architect Storage/HA, OPS Engineering, Novell, Inc.
> SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG N?rnberg)
> "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes." -- Oscar Wilde
>
>


--
Andres Rodriguez (RoAkSoAx)
Ubuntu Server Developer
Systems Engineer
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.linux-foundation.org/pipermail/ha-wg-technical/attachments/20110315/ef1dcc9a/attachment.htm

On 3/16/2011 at 08:37 AM, Andres Rodriguez <andreserl at ubuntu.com> wrote:
> Even though I prefer clusterlabs, other choices that come into my mind are:
>
> halabs
> hawg

If pressed I'd probably vote for clusterlabs.

hawg sounds too much like a Texan talking about a pig :)

Regards,

Tim


--
Tim Serong <tserong at novell.com>
Senior Clustering Engineer, OPS Engineering, Novell Inc.

On 2011-03-15T23:37:32, Tim Serong <tserong at novell.com> wrote:

> > halabs
> > hawg
> If pressed I'd probably vote for clusterlabs.

Okay, this seems that we're now mostly all in favor of clusterlabs,
right? Or at least it's the one we got least push-back against ;-)

(Just for the record and getting the last word in, I still prefer
opencf, but I can live with clusterlabs.)


Regards,
Lars

--
Architect Storage/HA, OPS Engineering, Novell, Inc.
SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG N?rnberg)
"Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes." -- Oscar Wilde

On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 10:56 AM, Lars Marowsky-Bree <lmb at novell.com> wrote:
> On 2011-03-15T23:37:32, Tim Serong <tserong at novell.com> wrote:
>
>> > halabs
>> > hawg
>> If pressed I'd probably vote for clusterlabs.
>
> Okay, this seems that we're now mostly all in favor of clusterlabs,
> right? Or at least it's the one we got least push-back against ;-)
>
> (Just for the record and getting the last word in, I still prefer
> opencf, but I can live with clusterlabs.)

Either is fine by me.

Hi all,

On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 11:41:34AM +0100, Andrew Beekhof wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 10:56 AM, Lars Marowsky-Bree <lmb at novell.com> wrote:
> > On 2011-03-15T23:37:32, Tim Serong <tserong at novell.com> wrote:
> >
> >> > halabs
> >> > hawg
> >> If pressed I'd probably vote for clusterlabs.
> >
> > Okay, this seems that we're now mostly all in favor of clusterlabs,
> > right? Or at least it's the one we got least push-back against ;-)
> >
> > (Just for the record and getting the last word in, I still prefer
> > opencf, but I can live with clusterlabs.)
>
> Either is fine by me.

I was waiting for inspiration, but somehow it didn't happen.
Anyway, of all suggestions I found planet-ha the best. Though
mice-bikers-from-mars (or how was it?) is definitely a runner-up.

Cheers,

Dejan

> _______________________________________________
> ha-wg-technical mailing list
> ha-wg-technical at lists.linux-foundation.org
> https://lists.linux-foundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ha-wg-technical

On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 11:54:36AM +0100, Dejan Muhamedagic wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 11:41:34AM +0100, Andrew Beekhof wrote:
> > On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 10:56 AM, Lars Marowsky-Bree <lmb at novell.com> wrote:
> > > On 2011-03-15T23:37:32, Tim Serong <tserong at novell.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> > halabs
> > >> > hawg
> > >> If pressed I'd probably vote for clusterlabs.
> > >
> > > Okay, this seems that we're now mostly all in favor of clusterlabs,
> > > right? Or at least it's the one we got least push-back against ;-)
> > >
> > > (Just for the record and getting the last word in, I still prefer
> > > opencf, but I can live with clusterlabs.)
> >
> > Either is fine by me.
>
> I was waiting for inspiration, but somehow it didn't happen.
> Anyway, of all suggestions I found planet-ha the best. Though
> mice-bikers-from-mars (or how was it?) is definitely a runner-up.

"*labs" sounds too much like not-quite-there-yet
experimental-level quality stuff.

I personally like "core".
Yes, that may be boring,
but in a positive, HA conservative way boring, so that is good.

If it has to be something more "fancy",
I'd like it to be linux-ha.

And if you insist on being fancy while still trying to avoid the "linux"
part of it, planet-ha is my 3rd choice.

--
: Lars Ellenberg
: LINBIT | Your Way to High Availability
: DRBD/HA support and consulting http://www.linbit.com

Cheers,
Florian

--
Sent while on the go -- please excuse typos. Thanks!

Lars Ellenberg <lars.ellenberg at linbit.com> schrieb:

On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 11:54:36AM +0100, Dejan Muhamedagic wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 11:41:34AM +0100, Andrew Beekhof wrote:
> > On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 10:56 AM, Lars Marowsky-Bree <lmb at novell.com> wrote:
> > > On 2011-03-15T23:37:32, Tim Serong <tserong at novell.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> > halabs
> > >> > hawg
> > >> If pressed I'd probably vote for clusterlabs.
> > >
> > > Okay, this seems that we're now mostly all in favor of clusterlabs,
> > > right? Or at least it's the one we got least push-back against ;-)
> > >
> > > (Just for the record and getting the last word in, I still prefer
> > > opencf, but I can live with clusterlabs.)
> >
> > Either is fine by me.
>
> I was waiting for inspiration, but somehow it didn't happen.
> Anyway, of all suggestions I found planet-ha the best. Though
> mice-bikers-from-mars (or how was it?) is definitely a runner-up.

"*labs" sounds too much like not-quite-there-yet
experimental-level quality stuff.

I personally like "core".
Yes, that may be boring,
but in a positive, HA conservative way boring, so that is good.

If it has to be something more "fancy",
I'd like it to be linux-ha.

And if you insist on being fancy while still trying to avoid the "linux"
part of it, planet-ha is my 3rd choice.

--
: Lars Ellenberg
: LINBIT | Your Way to High Availability
: DRBD/HA support and consulting http://www.linbit.com
_______________________________________________
ha-wg-technical mailing list
ha-wg-technical at lists.linux-foundation.org
https://lists.linux-foundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ha-wg-technical

On 03/18/2011 03:50 PM, Florian Haas wrote:
>
>
> Cheers,
> Florian
>
> --
> Sent while on the go -- please excuse typos. Thanks!

Yeah, and as you could tell my phone played a trick on me there. No clue
how I managed to send that one out. Sorry.

Anyway, my real reply is below.

>
> Lars Ellenberg <lars.ellenberg at linbit.com> schrieb:
>
> On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 11:54:36AM +0100, Dejan Muhamedagic wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 11:41:34AM +0100, Andrew Beekhof wrote:
>>> On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 10:56 AM, Lars Marowsky-Bree <lmb at novell.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2011-03-15T23:37:32, Tim Serong <tserong at novell.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> halabs
>>>>>> hawg
>>>>> If pressed I'd probably vote for clusterlabs.
>>>>
>>>> Okay, this seems that we're now mostly all in favor of clusterlabs,
>>>> right? Or at least it's the one we got least push-back against ;-)
>>>>
>>>> (Just for the record and getting the last word in, I still prefer
>>>> opencf, but I can live with clusterlabs.)
>>>
>>> Either is fine by me.
>>
>> I was waiting for inspiration, but somehow it didn't happen.
>> Anyway, of all suggestions I found planet-ha the best. Though
>> mice-bikers-from-mars (or how was it?) is definitely a runner-up.
>
> "*labs" sounds too much like not-quite-there-yet
> experimental-level quality stuff.

I wholeheartedly agree with that. Which is not to imply that I dislike
Andrew's choice of domain name, but for the provider name I think there
is a better option on the table.

> I personally like "core".
> Yes, that may be boring,
> but in a positive, HA conservative way boring, so that is good.

I completely second that one too. People like boring when it comes to
HA, stuff that "just works".

So my vote, FWIW, is for "core".

Cheers,
Florian

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 262 bytes
Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
Url : http://lists.linux-foundation.org/pipermail/ha-wg-technical/attachments/20110318/7e246c06/attachment-0001.pgp

On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 3:56 PM, Florian Haas <florian.haas at linbit.com> wrote:
> So my vote, FWIW, is for "core".

no objection

On Fri, March 18, 2011 3:15 pm, Lars Ellenberg wrote:

>
> I personally like "core".
> Yes, that may be boring,
> but in a positive, HA conservative way boring, so that is good.
>
> If it has to be something more "fancy",

Or "hacore" and there's still something fancy in it.

Rasto


--
: Dipl-Ing Rastislav Levrinc
: DRBD MC http://oss.linbit.com/drbd-mc/
: DRBD/HA support and consulting http://www.linbit.com/
DRBD(R) and LINBIT(R) are registered trademarks of LINBIT, Austria.