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which PCI or USB digital tuner to use?
Greetings,

I currently have an Hauppauge PVR-500MCE which is working well for my needs,
but wish to capture digital ATSC transmissions in my area.

I purchased an HVR-1800 for the purpose but am dismayed to find that it has
a (new to me) PCIe connection rather than PCI.

What PCI cards (or USB for that matter, but the MPEG2 hardware compression
is desired) are others using to enable ivtv, please?

Thank you.


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Re: which PCI or USB digital tuner to use? [ In reply to ]
You can try the hvr-1600 pci card then again I have had real good results from the HDHomerun network receiver.
------Original Message------
From: Tony Ross
Sender: ivtv-users-bounces@ivtvdriver.org
To: User discussion about IVTV
ReplyTo: User discussion about IVTV
Subject: [ivtv-users] which PCI or USB digital tuner to use?
Sent: Oct 31, 2009 2:47 PM

Greetings,

I currently have an Hauppauge PVR-500MCE which is working well for my needs,
but wish to capture digital ATSC transmissions in my area.

I purchased an HVR-1800 for the purpose but am dismayed to find that it has
a (new to me) PCIe connection rather than PCI.

What PCI cards (or USB for that matter, but the MPEG2 hardware compression
is desired) are others using to enable ivtv, please?

Thank you.


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Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel
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Re: which PCI or USB digital tuner to use? [ In reply to ]
On Sat, 2009-10-31 at 12:47 -0700, Tony Ross wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> I currently have an Hauppauge PVR-500MCE which is working well for my needs,
> but wish to capture digital ATSC transmissions in my area.
>
> I purchased an HVR-1800 for the purpose but am dismayed to find that it has
> a (new to me) PCIe connection rather than PCI.
>
> What PCI cards (or USB for that matter, but the MPEG2 hardware compression
> is desired) are others using to enable ivtv, please?
>
> Thank you.

An HVR-1600 is PCI. It can capture Over The Air ATSC or North American
Cable (clear) QAM for digitial TV. It can caputre and MPEG compress
NTSC from over the air or other analog standards from the video inputs.
It can perform analog and digital TV capture at the same time.

However, you don't need an MPEG encoder for digital TV. USB devices DTV
devices are cheaper and more flexible, if you already have an analog
MPEG encoder card like the PVR-500.

Regards,
Andy



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Re: which PCI or USB digital tuner to use? [ In reply to ]
Andy Walls wrote:

>> I currently have an Hauppauge PVR-500MCE which is working well for
>> my needs, but wish to capture digital ATSC transmissions in my area.
>>
>> I purchased an HVR-1800 for the purpose but am dismayed to find that
>> it has a (new to me) PCIe connection rather than PCI.
>>
>> What PCI cards (or USB for that matter, but the MPEG2 hardware
>> compression is desired) are others using to enable ivtv, please?
>>
>> Thank you.
>
> An HVR-1600 is PCI. It can capture Over The Air ATSC or North
> American Cable (clear) QAM for digitial TV. It can caputre and MPEG
> compress NTSC from over the air or other analog standards from the
> video inputs. It can perform analog and digital TV capture at the
> same time.


Thank you, but I get the distinct impression that there are driver problems
with the HVR-1600, as evidenced by the thread "HVR-1600 Improvements". I
will look for one on Craigslist however, in the hopes that Devin achieves
his goals.

> However, you don't need an MPEG encoder for digital TV. USB devices
> DTV devices are cheaper and more flexible, if you already have an
> analog MPEG encoder card like the PVR-500.

The analog PVR-500MCE tuner is used only for VHS video capture; there are no
analog television broadcasts here.

I do desire the ATSC capture in an MPEG2 format for my specific needs, and
prefer that it be done in hardware. Are you suggesting that a USB DTV device
can somehow be routed through the PVR-500 to achieve the hardware MPEG2
compression, or do I misunderstand you?


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Re: which PCI or USB digital tuner to use? [ In reply to ]
harlock@pclynk.net wrote:

> You can try the hvr-1600 pci card then again I have had real good
> results from the HDHomerun network receiver. ------Original

Thank you; as mentioned in my reply to Andy I think your word "try" sounds
justified for the HVR-1600, but I'll do it. I'm desiring broadcast reception
rather than network, as my satellite Internet connection has bandwidth
quotas 18 hrs/day that need to be observed and allocated for purposes other
than television reception.


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Re: which PCI or USB digital tuner to use? [ In reply to ]
On Sat, 2009-10-31 at 14:20 -0700, Tony Ross wrote:
> Andy Walls wrote:
>
> >> I currently have an Hauppauge PVR-500MCE which is working well for
> >> my needs, but wish to capture digital ATSC transmissions in my area.
> >>
> >> I purchased an HVR-1800 for the purpose but am dismayed to find that
> >> it has a (new to me) PCIe connection rather than PCI.
> >>
> >> What PCI cards (or USB for that matter, but the MPEG2 hardware
> >> compression is desired) are others using to enable ivtv, please?
> >>
> >> Thank you.
> >
> > An HVR-1600 is PCI. It can capture Over The Air ATSC or North
> > American Cable (clear) QAM for digitial TV. It can caputre and MPEG
> > compress NTSC from over the air or other analog standards from the
> > video inputs. It can perform analog and digital TV capture at the
> > same time.
>
>
> Thank you, but I get the distinct impression that there are driver problems
> with the HVR-1600, as evidenced by the thread "HVR-1600 Improvements". I
> will look for one on Craigslist however, in the hopes that Devin achieves
> his goals.


Well, no. It's very stable for the common use cases: capturing and
compressing analog video and passing along digital TV from the ATSC/QAM
tuner and demodulator.

Raw/uncompressed YUV video is a mode almost no one uses with the card.
When have you used the YUV mode with your PVR500? I would think you
likely never have. Raw YUV capture with the HVR-1600 probably won't
matter to you at all - so it doesn't matter if it doesn't work perfectly
right now, or ever. ;)


> > However, you don't need an MPEG encoder for digital TV. USB devices
> > DTV devices are cheaper and more flexible, if you already have an
> > analog MPEG encoder card like the PVR-500.
>
> The analog PVR-500MCE tuner is used only for VHS video capture; there are no
> analog television broadcasts here.
>
> I do desire the ATSC capture in an MPEG2 format for my specific needs, and
> prefer that it be done in hardware. Are you suggesting that a USB DTV device
> can somehow be routed through the PVR-500 to achieve the hardware MPEG2
> compression, or do I misunderstand you?

Yes, you misunderstand. The ATSC broadcast as sent over the air by the
broadcaster is a digital MPEG-2 TS - it's already compressed. No
hardware compression is needed on your PC for ATSC or clear QAM, and the
HVR-1600 or any USB DTV capture device doesn't need to compress it.

You just need a device to tune and pass the MPEG TS stream along to your
favorite software decoder: mplayer, MythTV, etc.

Regards,
Andy


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Re: which PCI or USB digital tuner to use? [ In reply to ]
Hi Tony,

>> You can try the hvr-1600 pci card then again I have had real good
>> results from the HDHomerun network receiver. ------Original
>
> Thank you; as mentioned in my reply to Andy I think your word "try" sounds
> justified for the HVR-1600, but I'll do it. I'm desiring broadcast reception
> rather than network, as my satellite Internet connection has bandwidth
> quotas 18 hrs/day that need to be observed and allocated for purposes other
> than television reception.

The HDHomeRun won't use your internet bandwidth, but it does require that you have a local area network in your home. IOW, you need either a router with a spare port or a second NIC in your computer (and perhaps a crossover cable) to support the HDHomeRun.

FWIW, I have been using the HVR-1600 to record analog channels provided by my cable company. I've had trouble with the ATSC/QAM tuner. I'm hoping to help test Devin's tree, but his announcement coincided with the arrival of a second HVR-1600 and fall cleanup. I want to make sure the second HVR-1600 is working like my first one before I tinker with Devin's latest drivers, just in case I need to return it. I bought the second one to record more analog. If Devin's improvements help, I'll start recording more digital on the HVR-1600s. If not, I'm thinking I'll spring for an HDHomeRun, which will let me hook it up to a cleaner coax connection than I can get to my myth box. It's easier for me to run Ethernet to wherever that might be than to get a dedicated coax cable to my myth box.

HTH,
Helen

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Re: which PCI or USB digital tuner to use? [ In reply to ]
faginbagin wrote:
...
> The HDHomeRun won't use your internet bandwidth, but it does require
> that you have a local area network in your home. IOW, you need either
> a router with a spare port or a second NIC in your computer (and
> perhaps a crossover cable) to support the HDHomeRun.

Thank you for that clarification, yet I don't understand how ivtv will tap
into that network stream. I'm using ivtv as a Linux tool to feed the
PVR-500MCE inputs to such things as mplayer and mythtv from a VHS S-Video or
Composite input, probaly very primitive usage by most of all y'all's
standards (look at me talk Southern!).

I'm hoping to acquire an ATSC digital capture device to record the PBS
station that is indicated in the footprint of the FCC maps here. I'm
deducing from the replies that ivtv won't be necessary for that, as mythtv,
which I intend to use as the recording scheduler for such things as the NOVA
programs, might be entirely sufficient for the capture from a USB digital
ATSC receiver.

Thanks everybody for your sharing of your knowledge. I enjoy reading this
(for me, recent) forum as an ongoing education.




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Re: which PCI or USB digital tuner to use? [ In reply to ]
Andy Walls wrote:

[Re: Hauppauge HVR-1600]:

> Well, no. It's very stable for the common use cases: capturing and
> compressing analog video and passing along digital TV from the
> ATSC/QAM tuner and demodulator.
>
> Raw/uncompressed YUV video is a mode almost no one uses with the card.
> When have you used the YUV mode with your PVR500? I would think you
> likely never have. Raw YUV capture with the HVR-1600 probably won't
> matter to you at all - so it doesn't matter if it doesn't work
> perfectly right now, or ever. ;)

Thank you much, I didn't realize the issue had to do with just the YUV mode.
Yes you're correct, I don't even understand the acronym.


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Re: which PCI or USB digital tuner to use? [ In reply to ]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Ross" <tross.technical@starband.net>
To: "User discussion about IVTV" <ivtv-users@ivtvdriver.org>
Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 1:17 AM
Subject: Re: [ivtv-users] which PCI or USB digital tuner to use?


> faginbagin wrote:
> ...
>> The HDHomeRun won't use your internet bandwidth, but it does require
>> that you have a local area network in your home. IOW, you need either
>> a router with a spare port or a second NIC in your computer (and
>> perhaps a crossover cable) to support the HDHomeRun.
>
> Thank you for that clarification, yet I don't understand how ivtv will tap
> into that network stream. I'm using ivtv as a Linux tool to feed the
> PVR-500MCE inputs to such things as mplayer and mythtv from a VHS S-Video
> or
> Composite input, probaly very primitive usage by most of all y'all's
> standards (look at me talk Southern!).
>
> I'm hoping to acquire an ATSC digital capture device to record the PBS
> station that is indicated in the footprint of the FCC maps here. I'm
> deducing from the replies that ivtv won't be necessary for that, as
> mythtv,
> which I intend to use as the recording scheduler for such things as the
> NOVA
> programs, might be entirely sufficient for the capture from a USB digital
> ATSC receiver.
The HDHomerun doesn't require or use nor is it associated with ivtv it is a
different set of
tuners present on the local network accessable via either mythtv and vlc
(possibly even mplayer not sure
but further discussion would not be possible in this list)

--Robert
>
> Thanks everybody for your sharing of your knowledge. I enjoy reading this
> (for me, recent) forum as an ongoing education.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ivtv-users mailing list
> ivtv-users@ivtvdriver.org
> http://ivtvdriver.org/mailman/listinfo/ivtv-users
>


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Re: which PCI or USB digital tuner to use? [ In reply to ]
On Sun, 2009-11-01 at 00:29 -0700, Tony Ross wrote:
> Andy Walls wrote:
>
> [Re: Hauppauge HVR-1600]:
>
> > Well, no. It's very stable for the common use cases: capturing and
> > compressing analog video and passing along digital TV from the
> > ATSC/QAM tuner and demodulator.
> >
> > Raw/uncompressed YUV video is a mode almost no one uses with the card.
> > When have you used the YUV mode with your PVR500? I would think you
> > likely never have. Raw YUV capture with the HVR-1600 probably won't
> > matter to you at all - so it doesn't matter if it doesn't work
> > perfectly right now, or ever. ;)
>
> Thank you much, I didn't realize the issue had to do with just the YUV mode.
> Yes you're correct, I don't even understand the acronym.

Oops. It doesn't. Sorry, I got the wrong "improvements" thread.


Devin is working on the mxl5005s and s5h1409 modules to get a 3 dB
improvement in QAM (North American cable) reception characteristics for
the HVR-1600. 3 dB ain't much (I can talk Southern too!) but may matter
to people who have cable reception that's on the margin.

My personal opinion, is that is is always better to have tuning
components outside of the PC case (like a USB device) versus inside the
PC case (like a PCI device) from a noise or Electromagnetic Interference
perspective. The drawback is that the USB bus bandwidth limits how much
a USB device can provide.


Again, sorry for my confusing reply earlier.

Regards,
Andy





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