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Website down
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Peter

_______________________________________________
interchange-users mailing list
interchange-users@interchangecommerce.org
https://www.interchangecommerce.org/mailman/listinfo/interchange-users
Website down [ In reply to ]
"This website www.interchangecommerce.org/i/dev is currently offline.
Cloudflare's Always Online™ shows a snapshot of this web page from the
Internet Archive's Wayback Machine. To check for the live version, click
Refresh."


Peter

_______________________________________________
interchange-users mailing list
interchange-users@interchangecommerce.org
https://www.interchangecommerce.org/mailman/listinfo/interchange-users
Re: Website down [ In reply to ]
On Tue, 14 Feb 2023, Peter Ajamian via interchange-users wrote:

> "This website www.interchangecommerce.org/i/dev is currently offline.

Thanks for the heads-up.

This has happened a couple of times in the past week, due to the Linux OOM
killer taking out MySQL and/or Interchange, but the cause seems to be
Mailman spinning out of control and eating up all RAM.

Until now we've never had any problem with Mailman or the rest of this, so
we never needed to monitor it. But maybe there's some new spam that
triggers a Mailman bug or something, so we will set up alerts for it.

On this note, I have to say I'm considering shutting down the Interchange
mailing lists entirely.

It has become really difficult to run a public mail server due to the
heavy amounts of spam, lots of list subscribers abandoning their free
email accounts that fill up and reject all messages or else clicking
"spam" instead of unsubscribing themselves, and this adds to existing
deliverability problems to the big email providers most people use: Yahoo,
Google, Apple, Microsoft.

The server's Postfix mail queue is always clogged with 50k+ deferred
messages because of receiving servers saying "temporarily deferred due to
unexpected volume or user complaints" etc. Sometimes we have to just purge
them all to start over.

Given how little real discussion happens here in the mailing lists in
recent years, it doesn't at all feel worth it, and we may just point
people to the existing options of IRC and GitHub issues.

I would be sad to see the lists shut down, but the work of dealing with
this has for years fallen only on me and Gert. It is not benefitting many
people anymore and isn't rewarding.

Jon


--
Jon Jensen
End Point Corporation
https://www.endpointdev.com/
_______________________________________________
interchange-users mailing list
interchange-users@interchangecommerce.org
https://www.interchangecommerce.org/mailman/listinfo/interchange-users
Re: Website down [ In reply to ]
Hi, Jon.

In honor of Mike Heins, I top-post. ;)

Thank you so much for your efforts over the years in maintaining the mailing list. I understand why you would want to shut it down. In 2023, email’s dumb.

Cheers,
Bill Carr

> On Feb 14, 2023, at 11:16 AM, Jon Jensen via interchange-users <interchange-users@interchangecommerce.org> wrote:
>
> On Tue, 14 Feb 2023, Peter Ajamian via interchange-users wrote:
>
>> "This website www.interchangecommerce.org/i/dev is currently offline.
>
> Thanks for the heads-up.
>
> This has happened a couple of times in the past week, due to the Linux OOM killer taking out MySQL and/or Interchange, but the cause seems to be Mailman spinning out of control and eating up all RAM.
>
> Until now we've never had any problem with Mailman or the rest of this, so we never needed to monitor it. But maybe there's some new spam that triggers a Mailman bug or something, so we will set up alerts for it.
>
> On this note, I have to say I'm considering shutting down the Interchange mailing lists entirely.
>
> It has become really difficult to run a public mail server due to the heavy amounts of spam, lots of list subscribers abandoning their free email accounts that fill up and reject all messages or else clicking "spam" instead of unsubscribing themselves, and this adds to existing deliverability problems to the big email providers most people use: Yahoo, Google, Apple, Microsoft.
>
> The server's Postfix mail queue is always clogged with 50k+ deferred messages because of receiving servers saying "temporarily deferred due to unexpected volume or user complaints" etc. Sometimes we have to just purge them all to start over.
>
> Given how little real discussion happens here in the mailing lists in recent years, it doesn't at all feel worth it, and we may just point people to the existing options of IRC and GitHub issues.
>
> I would be sad to see the lists shut down, but the work of dealing with this has for years fallen only on me and Gert. It is not benefitting many people anymore and isn't rewarding.
>
> Jon
>
>
> --
> Jon Jensen
> End Point Corporation
> https://www.endpointdev.com/
> _______________________________________________
> interchange-users mailing list
> interchange-users@interchangecommerce.org
> https://www.interchangecommerce.org/mailman/listinfo/interchange-users

_______________________________________________
interchange-users mailing list
interchange-users@interchangecommerce.org
https://www.interchangecommerce.org/mailman/listinfo/interchange-users
Re: Website down [ In reply to ]
Hello All,

It is going to be sad to see a 20+ year, possibly even nearing dare I
say 25 year, staple shut down, but the thoughts behind it make sense.


John Beima


On 2023-02-14 09:54, William Carr via interchange-users wrote:
> Hi, Jon.
>
> In honor of Mike Heins, I top-post. ;)
>
> Thank you so much for your efforts over the years in maintaining the mailing list. I understand why you would want to shut it down. In 2023, email’s dumb.
>
> Cheers,
> Bill Carr
>
>> On Feb 14, 2023, at 11:16 AM, Jon Jensen via interchange-users <interchange-users@interchangecommerce.org> wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 14 Feb 2023, Peter Ajamian via interchange-users wrote:
>>
>>> "This website www.interchangecommerce.org/i/dev is currently offline.
>> Thanks for the heads-up.
>>
>> This has happened a couple of times in the past week, due to the Linux OOM killer taking out MySQL and/or Interchange, but the cause seems to be Mailman spinning out of control and eating up all RAM.
>>
>> Until now we've never had any problem with Mailman or the rest of this, so we never needed to monitor it. But maybe there's some new spam that triggers a Mailman bug or something, so we will set up alerts for it.
>>
>> On this note, I have to say I'm considering shutting down the Interchange mailing lists entirely.
>>
>> It has become really difficult to run a public mail server due to the heavy amounts of spam, lots of list subscribers abandoning their free email accounts that fill up and reject all messages or else clicking "spam" instead of unsubscribing themselves, and this adds to existing deliverability problems to the big email providers most people use: Yahoo, Google, Apple, Microsoft.
>>
>> The server's Postfix mail queue is always clogged with 50k+ deferred messages because of receiving servers saying "temporarily deferred due to unexpected volume or user complaints" etc. Sometimes we have to just purge them all to start over.
>>
>> Given how little real discussion happens here in the mailing lists in recent years, it doesn't at all feel worth it, and we may just point people to the existing options of IRC and GitHub issues.
>>
>> I would be sad to see the lists shut down, but the work of dealing with this has for years fallen only on me and Gert. It is not benefitting many people anymore and isn't rewarding.
>>
>> Jon
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jon Jensen
>> End Point Corporation
>> https://www.endpointdev.com/
>> _______________________________________________
>> interchange-users mailing list
>> interchange-users@interchangecommerce.org
>> https://www.interchangecommerce.org/mailman/listinfo/interchange-users
> _______________________________________________
> interchange-users mailing list
> interchange-users@interchangecommerce.org
> https://www.interchangecommerce.org/mailman/listinfo/interchange-users

--
John Beima
jbeima@palb.com

P.A.L.B. Systems
12232-135 Street
Edmonton, AB T5L 1X1

_______________________________________________
interchange-users mailing list
interchange-users@interchangecommerce.org
https://www.interchangecommerce.org/mailman/listinfo/interchange-users
Re: Website down [ In reply to ]
On 15/02/23 05:16, Jon Jensen wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Feb 2023, Peter Ajamian via interchange-users wrote:
>
>> "This website www.interchangecommerce.org/i/dev is currently offline.
>
> Thanks for the heads-up.
>
> This has happened a couple of times in the past week, due to the Linux
> OOM killer taking out MySQL and/or Interchange, but the cause seems to
> be Mailman spinning out of control and eating up all RAM.
>
> Until now we've never had any problem with Mailman or the rest of this,
> so we never needed to monitor it. But maybe there's some new spam that
> triggers a Mailman bug or something, so we will set up alerts for it.
>
> On this note, I have to say I'm considering shutting down the
> Interchange mailing lists entirely.
>
> It has become really difficult to run a public mail server due to the
> heavy amounts of spam, lots of list subscribers abandoning their free
> email accounts that fill up and reject all messages or else clicking
> "spam" instead of unsubscribing themselves, and this adds to existing
> deliverability problems to the big email providers most people use:
> Yahoo, Google, Apple, Microsoft.
>
> The server's Postfix mail queue is always clogged with 50k+ deferred
> messages because of receiving servers saying "temporarily deferred due
> to unexpected volume or user complaints" etc. Sometimes we have to just
> purge them all to start over.
>
> Given how little real discussion happens here in the mailing lists in
> recent years, it doesn't at all feel worth it, and we may just point
> people to the existing options of IRC and GitHub issues.
>
> I would be sad to see the lists shut down, but the work of dealing with
> this has for years fallen only on me and Gert. It is not benefitting
> many people anymore and isn't rewarding.

It will be sad to see this list go. I will still maintain my presence
in IRC and on github as you say. Anyone feel free to drop in (on IRC),
even just to say hi, we're always there.


Peter
_______________________________________________
interchange-users mailing list
interchange-users@interchangecommerce.org
https://www.interchangecommerce.org/mailman/listinfo/interchange-users
Re: Website down [ In reply to ]
On Tue, 14 Feb 2023, William Carr wrote:

> In honor of Mike Heins, I top-post. ;)

I'm sure he appreciates that. ????

> Thank you so much for your efforts over the years in maintaining the
> mailing list. I understand why you would want to shut it down. In 2023,
> email’s dumb.

Thanks for your note! Good to hear from you.

Email seems inherently as good as ever, but it is part of a larger
ecosystem that has become very centralized, hostile to smaller servers,
and clogged with spam, phishing, and abuse.

There isn't really anything better that is open and accessible to
everyone, so I am sad to see it so hobbled.

Jon


--
Jon Jensen
End Point Corporation
https://www.endpointdev.com/
Re: Website down [ In reply to ]
Team,

I will also be sad to see such a historic piece of history be taken down. I would like to offer anything that I can to help in keeping this thing up and running if possible or helping in other ways? Server, space, time, etc…

I would also like to see when I become a member if possible? If someone could lead me to the place to see just when I subscribe to this list? I haven’t used the software/list for many years but I used it a lot back in the early 2000’s.

Thank You,

B. Mayberry
BJMMedia.com
www.bjmmedia.com

Want a Website?

From: Jon Jensen via interchange-users
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2023 6:40 PM
To: William Carr
Cc: Jon Jensen; interchange-users@interchangecommerce.org
Subject: Re: [ic] Website down

On Tue, 14 Feb 2023, William Carr wrote:

> In honor of Mike Heins, I top-post. ;)

I'm sure he appreciates that. ????

> Thank you so much for your efforts over the years in maintaining the
> mailing list. I understand why you would want to shut it down. In 2023,
> email’s dumb.

Thanks for your note! Good to hear from you.

Email seems inherently as good as ever, but it is part of a larger
ecosystem that has become very centralized, hostile to smaller servers,
and clogged with spam, phishing, and abuse.

There isn't really anything better that is open and accessible to
everyone, so I am sad to see it so hobbled.

Jon


--
Jon Jensen
End Point Corporation
https://www.endpointdev.com/
Re: Website down [ In reply to ]
On 15/02/23 12:40, Jon Jensen via interchange-users wrote:
> Email seems inherently as good as ever, but it is part of a larger
> ecosystem that has become very centralized, hostile to smaller servers,
> and clogged with spam, phishing, and abuse.

This is mostly true. It is still possible to maintain smaller servers,
but it requires a great deal of knowledge and effort to do it correctly.

I think the real issue for this list is the list has grown stale and
such extremely low volume that the noise has grown to far outweigh the
signal on this list and it is no longer viable to maintain in this
state. Certainly it would be worth it if Interchange and the mailing
list were more active, but unfortunately that is simply no longer the case.

> There isn't really anything better that is open and accessible to
> everyone, so I am sad to see it so hobbled.

IRC is still around, drop in and say hi :-)


Peter
_______________________________________________
interchange-users mailing list
interchange-users@interchangecommerce.org
https://www.interchangecommerce.org/mailman/listinfo/interchange-users
Re: Website down [ In reply to ]
On 15/02/23 05:16, Jon Jensen wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Feb 2023, Peter Ajamian via interchange-users wrote:
>
>> "This website www.interchangecommerce.org/i/dev is currently offline.
>
> Thanks for the heads-up.
>
> This has happened a couple of times in the past week, due to the Linux
> OOM killer taking out MySQL and/or Interchange, but the cause seems to
> be Mailman spinning out of control and eating up all RAM.
>
> Until now we've never had any problem with Mailman or the rest of this,
> so we never needed to monitor it. But maybe there's some new spam that
> triggers a Mailman bug or something, so we will set up alerts for it.
>
> On this note, I have to say I'm considering shutting down the
> Interchange mailing lists entirely.
>
> It has become really difficult to run a public mail server due to the
> heavy amounts of spam, lots of list subscribers abandoning their free
> email accounts that fill up and reject all messages or else clicking
> "spam" instead of unsubscribing themselves, and this adds to existing
> deliverability problems to the big email providers most people use:
> Yahoo, Google, Apple, Microsoft.
>
> The server's Postfix mail queue is always clogged with 50k+ deferred
> messages because of receiving servers saying "temporarily deferred due
> to unexpected volume or user complaints" etc. Sometimes we have to just
> purge them all to start over.
>
> Given how little real discussion happens here in the mailing lists in
> recent years, it doesn't at all feel worth it, and we may just point
> people to the existing options of IRC and GitHub issues.
>
> I would be sad to see the lists shut down, but the work of dealing with
> this has for years fallen only on me and Gert. It is not benefitting
> many people anymore and isn't rewarding.

It will be sad to see this list go. I will still maintain my presence
in IRC and on github as you say. Anyone feel free to drop in (on IRC),
even just to say hi, we're always there.


Peter
_______________________________________________
interchange-users mailing list
interchange-users@interchangecommerce.org
https://www.interchangecommerce.org/mailman/listinfo/interchange-users
Re: Website down [ In reply to ]
On 15/02/23 12:40, Jon Jensen via interchange-users wrote:
> Email seems inherently as good as ever, but it is part of a larger
> ecosystem that has become very centralized, hostile to smaller servers,
> and clogged with spam, phishing, and abuse.

This is mostly true. It is still possible to maintain smaller servers,
but it requires a great deal of knowledge and effort to do it correctly.

I think the real issue for this list is the list has grown stale and
such extremely low volume that the noise has grown to far outweigh the
signal on this list and it is no longer viable to maintain in this
state. Certainly it would be worth it if Interchange and the mailing
list were more active, but unfortunately that is simply no longer the case.

> There isn't really anything better that is open and accessible to
> everyone, so I am sad to see it so hobbled.

IRC is still around, drop in and say hi :-)


Peter
_______________________________________________
interchange-users mailing list
interchange-users@interchangecommerce.org
https://www.interchangecommerce.org/mailman/listinfo/interchange-users
Re: Website down [ In reply to ]
On 15/02/2023 02:42, Peter Ajamian via interchange-users wrote:
> On 15/02/23 05:16, Jon Jensen wrote:
>> On Tue, 14 Feb 2023, Peter Ajamian via interchange-users wrote:
>>
>>> "This website www.interchangecommerce.org/i/dev is currently offline.
>>
>> Thanks for the heads-up.
>>
>> This has happened a couple of times in the past week, due to the Linux OOM killer taking out MySQL and/or Interchange, but the cause seems to be Mailman spinning out of control and eating up all RAM.
>>
>> Until now we've never had any problem with Mailman or the rest of this, so we never needed to monitor it. But maybe there's some new spam that triggers a Mailman bug or something, so we will set up alerts for it.
>>
>> On this note, I have to say I'm considering shutting down the Interchange mailing lists entirely.
>>
>> It has become really difficult to run a public mail server due to the heavy amounts of spam, lots of list subscribers abandoning their free email accounts that fill up and reject all messages or else clicking "spam" instead of unsubscribing themselves, and this adds to existing deliverability problems to the big email providers most people use: Yahoo, Google, Apple, Microsoft.
>>
>> The server's Postfix mail queue is always clogged with 50k+ deferred messages because of receiving servers saying "temporarily deferred due to unexpected volume or user complaints" etc. Sometimes we have to just purge them all to start over.
>>
>> Given how little real discussion happens here in the mailing lists in recent years, it doesn't at all feel worth it, and we may just point people to the existing options of IRC and GitHub issues.
>>
>> I would be sad to see the lists shut down, but the work of dealing with this has for years fallen only on me and Gert. It is not benefitting many people anymore and isn't rewarding.
>
> It will be sad to see this list go.  I will still maintain my presence in IRC and on github as you say.  Anyone feel free to drop in (on IRC), even just to say hi, we're always there.

That is true, but still reasonable to close the lists. Thanks for the effort to maintaining it!

Regards
Racke

>
>
> Peter
> _______________________________________________
> interchange-users mailing list
> interchange-users@interchangecommerce.org
> https://www.interchangecommerce.org/mailman/listinfo/interchange-users
>

--
Automation expert - Ansible and friends
Linux administrator & Debian maintainer
Perl Dancer & conference hopper


_______________________________________________
interchange-users mailing list
interchange-users@interchangecommerce.org
https://www.interchangecommerce.org/mailman/listinfo/interchange-users
Re: Website down [ In reply to ]
Hi Billy,



This is your first post I believe: https://www.interchangecommerce.org/pipermail/interchange-users/2002-February/017919.html



And to throw in my 2 cents: I don’t mind the occasional reject/approve of mailing list message, I believe we have the (front end) spam issues pretty much under control since October 2021. However I’m not involved in the backend maintenance of the mailing list software and I can imagine that takes also time/effort from Jon & others.

So if it stays I’m happy to continue to be the arbiter of spam, if not then it was a blast and just have to drag my ass to IRC again once in a while! ????



CU,



Gert









From: interchange-users <interchange-users-bounces@interchangecommerce.org> On Behalf Of Billy Mayberry
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2023 2:55 AM
To: interchange-users@interchangecommerce.org
Subject: Re: [ic] Website down



Team,



I will also be sad to see such a historic piece of history be taken down. I would like to offer anything that I can to help in keeping this thing up and running if possible or helping in other ways? Server, space, time, etc…



I would also like to see when I become a member if possible? If someone could lead me to the place to see just when I subscribe to this list? I haven’t used the software/list for many years but I used it a lot back in the early 2000’s.



Thank You,

B. Mayberry
BJMMedia.com

www.bjmmedia.com <http://www.bjmmedia.com>



Want a Website?



From: Jon Jensen via interchange-users <mailto:interchange-users@interchangecommerce.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2023 6:40 PM
To: William Carr <mailto:bill@bottlenose.wine>
Cc: Jon Jensen <mailto:jon@endpointdev.com> ; interchange-users@interchangecommerce.org <mailto:interchange-users@interchangecommerce.org>
Subject: Re: [ic] Website down



On Tue, 14 Feb 2023, William Carr wrote:



> In honor of Mike Heins, I top-post. ;)



I'm sure he appreciates that. ????



> Thank you so much for your efforts over the years in maintaining the

> mailing list. I understand why you would want to shut it down. In 2023,

> email’s dumb.



Thanks for your note! Good to hear from you.



Email seems inherently as good as ever, but it is part of a larger

ecosystem that has become very centralized, hostile to smaller servers,

and clogged with spam, phishing, and abuse.



There isn't really anything better that is open and accessible to

everyone, so I am sad to see it so hobbled.



Jon





--

Jon Jensen

End Point Corporation

https://www.endpointdev.com/
Re: Website down [ In reply to ]
very sad for for this dead, the list for me was a GREAT help in my work
around 2000 and give me also the possibility di meet gert personally who
has keeped a very interesting open source conference to my students in
modena.

thanks from italy to all and if i can do something to avoid the list
down try to ask.

--
"fino alla bara sinpara"
"up to demise we rize"


_______________________________________________
interchange-users mailing list
interchange-users@interchangecommerce.org
https://www.interchangecommerce.org/mailman/listinfo/interchange-users
Re: Website down [ In reply to ]
> bounces@interchangecommerce.org> On Behalf Of Stefan Hornburg (Racke)
> Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2023 11:08 PM
> To: interchange-users@interchangecommerce.org
> Subject: Re: [ic] Website down
>
> > It will be sad to see this list go.  I will still maintain my presence in IRC and on
> github as you say.  Anyone feel free to drop in (on IRC), even just to say hi,
> we're always there.
>
> That is true, but still reasonable to close the lists. Thanks for the effort to
> maintaining it!


In my experience there were only a couple emails per month (if that) for the last several years - if that's not "the issues" blocking me from seeing many more then shutting it down seems fit.

Would be nice to hear from those willing to share what other platforms they're using now besides/with Interchange - since this may be the last time we converse in a group so easily - and there's 20 years of trust built into your opinions.

I'm still using Interchange and thinking of switching to React on the front end. Feel like I should be switching to cloud processes instead of a traditional server/LAMP setup but those have grown so vast it's hard to distinguish what the entry point is (I do use S3 and Cloudfront). Probably take one of those AWS classes to elucidate.

Best

Paul
_______________________________________________
interchange-users mailing list
interchange-users@interchangecommerce.org
https://www.interchangecommerce.org/mailman/listinfo/interchange-users
Re: Website down [ In reply to ]
On Wed, 15 Feb 2023, Paul Jordan wrote:

> In my experience there were only a couple emails per month (if that) for
> the last several years - if that's not "the issues" blocking me from
> seeing many more then shutting it down seems fit.

Yes, some months no posts at all.

But here we have a real party going again, lots of people showing up to
say hi. It's great to hear from you all!

I found that the problem with Mailman was a subscription attack coming
from many IP addresses and using many email addresses, and the deferred
and bouncing verification emails were clogging up both Mailman and
Postfix.

That is likely to keep happening, but at least for now cleared out the
trash and blocked some emails and IP addresses from trying any more.

> Would be nice to hear from those willing to share what other platforms
> they're using now besides/with Interchange - since this may be the last
> time we converse in a group so easily - and there's 20 years of trust
> built into your opinions.

That's a great idea. It would be nice to hear from people who are still
getting list messages.

> I'm still using Interchange and thinking of switching to React on the
> front end. Feel like I should be switching to cloud processes instead of
> a traditional server/LAMP setup but those have grown so vast it's hard
> to distinguish what the entry point is (I do use S3 and Cloudfront).

End Point overall uses lots of different technology: Java, Ruby (and
Rails), Python (mostly Django and Flask), Node.js, React, Vue, .NET/C#,
PHP, Go, C++, Rust, etc. Even some bash. ???? And various cloud services,
though we try not to get too specific to any one cloud platform.

And we still have plenty of sites running on Interchange and Perl with
either PostgreSQL or MySQL. Some of those are entirely Interchange, while
others have RESTful APIs in Perl modules with bigger JavaScript
front-ends, or sections of websites in other languages and frameworks.

The most disruptive thing for us is bit rot, and moving to a new long-term
support OS version every 4-5 years, where the OS, Perl or other language,
modules, database, and other parts all get upgraded and usually some
things need work. When it's Rails, a lot of things break and we have to do
a lot of work.

Jon


--
Jon Jensen
End Point Corporation
https://www.endpointdev.com/
Re: Website down [ In reply to ]
> bounces@interchangecommerce.org> On Behalf Of Jon Jensen via
> interchange-users
> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2023 9:24 PM
> To: interchange-users@interchangecommerce.org
> Cc: Jon Jensen <jon@endpointdev.com>
> Subject: Re: [ic] Website down
>
> End Point overall uses lots of different technology: Java, Ruby (and Rails),
> Python (mostly Django and Flask), Node.js, React, Vue, .NET/C#, PHP, Go,
> C++, Rust, etc. Even some bash. ???? And various cloud services, though we
> try not to get too specific to any one cloud platform.
>
> And we still have plenty of sites running on Interchange and Perl with either
> PostgreSQL or MySQL. Some of those are entirely Interchange, while others
> have RESTful APIs in Perl modules with bigger JavaScript front-ends, or
> sections of websites in other languages and frameworks.

That's great information for someone like me, thanks for sharing Jon. Makes me feel better that I'm within the currencies of a large company.

RESTful API's in Perl Modules and JS front-ends sounds interesting!

Best

Paul



_______________________________________________
interchange-users mailing list
interchange-users@interchangecommerce.org
https://www.interchangecommerce.org/mailman/listinfo/interchange-users
Re: Website down [ In reply to ]
On 03/03/2023 07:41, Jon Jensen via interchange-users wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Mar 2023, DB via interchange-users wrote:
>
>>> On this note, I have to say I'm considering shutting down the Interchange mailing lists entirely.
>>>
>>> It has become really difficult to run a public mail server due to the heavy amounts of spam, lots of list subscribers abandoning their free email accounts that fill up and reject all messages or else clicking "spam" instead of unsubscribing themselves, and this adds to existing deliverability problems to the big email providers most people use: Yahoo, Google, Apple, Microsoft.
>>>
>>> The server's Postfix mail queue is always clogged with 50k+ deferred messages because of receiving servers saying "temporarily deferred due to unexpected volume or user complaints" etc. Sometimes we have to just purge them all to start over.
>>
>> I agree that running an in-house email/list server is a big pain, but I do like the non-real-time nature of email. IRC is fine but messages scroll away pretty quickly. How about something like Google Groups?
>
> I've never been a big fan of Google Groups, but it's certainly an option.
>
> However, like you, I much prefer this mailing list to IRC, and since people piped up and are still here, it seems worth keeping.
>
> I was able to block a few countries full of bad actors and no Interchange users I'm aware of, and the subscription-bombing stopped completely and the mail queues are no longer clogged with junk.
>
> So, for now we can just keep the lists active, no need to shut them down.
>
> Jon
>
>

Sounds go to me. Thanks a lot for keeping it up!

Regards
Racke

--
Automation expert - Ansible and friends
Linux administrator & Debian maintainer
Perl Dancer & conference hopper


_______________________________________________
interchange-users mailing list
interchange-users@interchangecommerce.org
https://www.interchangecommerce.org/mailman/listinfo/interchange-users
Re: Website down [ In reply to ]
>On 03/03/2023 07:41, Jon Jensen via interchange-users wrote:
>> On Thu, 2 Mar 2023, DB via interchange-users wrote:
>>
>>>> On this note, I have to say I'm considering shutting down the Interchange mailing lists entirely.
>>>>
>>>> It has become really difficult to run a public mail server due to the heavy amounts of spam, lots of list subscribers abandoning their free email accounts that fill up and reject all messages or else clicking "spam" instead of unsubscribing themselves, and this adds to existing deliverability problems to the big email providers most people use: Yahoo, Google, Apple, Microsoft.
>>>>
>>>> The server's Postfix mail queue is always clogged with 50k+ deferred messages because of receiving servers saying "temporarily deferred due to unexpected volume or user complaints" etc. Sometimes we have to just purge them all to start over.
>>>
>>> I agree that running an in-house email/list server is a big pain, but I do like the non-real-time nature of email. IRC is fine but messages scroll away pretty quickly. How about something like Google Groups?
>>
>> I've never been a big fan of Google Groups, but it's certainly an option.
>>
>> However, like you, I much prefer this mailing list to IRC, and since people piped up and are still here, it seems worth keeping.
>>
>> I was able to block a few countries full of bad actors and no Interchange users I'm aware of, and the subscription-bombing stopped completely and the mail queues are no longer clogged with junk.
>>
>> So, for now we can just keep the lists active, no need to shut them down.
>>
>> Jon
>>
>>
>
>Sounds go to me. Thanks a lot for keeping it up!
>
>Regards
> Racke

Great Jon, thanks for the work and I'm happy to keep up the moderation. ????

CU,

Gert

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Re: Website down [ In reply to ]
On Thu, 2 Mar 2023, Jon Jensen wrote:

> On Thu, 2 Mar 2023, Dave Burlage wrote:
>
>> I agree that running an in-house email/list server is a big pain, but I
>> do like the non-real-time nature of email. IRC is fine but messages
>> scroll away pretty quickly. How about something like Google Groups?
>
> I've never been a big fan of Google Groups, but it's certainly an
> option.

Funny timing to have Google Groups come up. Just yesterday I read this
article about some open source projects leaving it and wanting to
self-host their collaboration tools:

Google Groups has been left to die
https://ahelwer.ca/post/2023-03-08-google-groups/

Jon


--
Jon Jensen
End Point Corporation
https://www.endpointdev.com/
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Re: Website down [ In reply to ]
On 10/03/23 03:29, Jon Jensen via interchange-users wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Mar 2023, Jon Jensen wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 2 Mar 2023, Dave Burlage wrote:
>>
>>> I agree that running an in-house email/list server is a big pain, but
>>> I do like the non-real-time nature of email. IRC is fine but messages
>>> scroll away pretty quickly. How about something like Google Groups?
>>
>> I've never been a big fan of Google Groups, but it's certainly an option.
>
> Funny timing to have Google Groups come up. Just yesterday I read this
> article about some open source projects leaving it and wanting to
> self-host their collaboration tools:
>
> Google Groups has been left to die
> https://ahelwer.ca/post/2023-03-08-google-groups/

Indeed, groups doesn't seem to be a viable option any more.


Peter
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