Mailing List Archive

You need to remove all packages that depend on virtual/rust
To see which ones do, run `emerge -pv --depclean virtual/rust`

Julien



May 11, 2022, 20:22 by mansour.alakeel@gmail.com:

> I am trying to avoid installing rust and prevent emerge --update
> --deep world from installing it again.
> How to do this ?
>

If your *reason* for wanting to remove rust is the compile time, bear
in mind there is also a rust-bin package these days. There are an
increasingly large number of major packages that have rust as a
dependency, so it's getting harder and harder to get away from.
Obviously anything from the mozilla foundation, but there's a lot of
others too.

Miles

On Thu, 12 May 2022 at 10:25, Julien Roy <julien@jroy.ca> wrote:
>
> You need to remove all packages that depend on virtual/rust
> To see which ones do, run `emerge -pv --depclean virtual/rust`
>
> Julien
>
>
>
> May 11, 2022, 20:22 by mansour.alakeel@gmail.com:
>
> I am trying to avoid installing rust and prevent emerge --update
> --deep world from installing it again.
> How to do this ?
>
>

Miles,
Thank you for your response. The idea of "getting harder and harder"
is hard to accept. Gentoo has always been about having choices.
Firefox requires rust, but is there a way to disable this ?
There must be another way to let the user decide if they need it or not !

And yes, the compile time is one of the factors in not wanting it on
my system. The second factor is a natural reaction toward feeling that
I am forced to have it.
Another reason is the growing collection of compilers and development
tools and their build time (gcc, bin-utils, llvm, clang ... etc.) and
now rust.

Firefox itself takes a lot of time to build, and if rust is a must
have, then maybe it is time for me to look into something else. I know
there's firefox-bin, and if it doesn't need rust, then maybe it is an
option.

On Wed, May 11, 2022 at 8:55 PM Miles Malone
<m.malone@homicidalteddybear.net> wrote:
>
> If your *reason* for wanting to remove rust is the compile time, bear
> in mind there is also a rust-bin package these days. There are an
> increasingly large number of major packages that have rust as a
> dependency, so it's getting harder and harder to get away from.
> Obviously anything from the mozilla foundation, but there's a lot of
> others too.
>
> Miles
>
> On Thu, 12 May 2022 at 10:25, Julien Roy <julien@jroy.ca> wrote:
> >
> > You need to remove all packages that depend on virtual/rust
> > To see which ones do, run `emerge -pv --depclean virtual/rust`
> >
> > Julien
> >
> >
> >
> > May 11, 2022, 20:22 by mansour.alakeel@gmail.com:
> >
> > I am trying to avoid installing rust and prevent emerge --update
> > --deep world from installing it again.
> > How to do this ?
> >
> >
>

Thank you both Julien and Miles for your help.
I got the list I wanted, and I can go ahead with removing rust.

On Wed, May 11, 2022 at 8:25 PM Julien Roy <julien@jroy.ca> wrote:
>
> You need to remove all packages that depend on virtual/rust
> To see which ones do, run `emerge -pv --depclean virtual/rust`
>
> Julien
>
>
>
> May 11, 2022, 20:22 by mansour.alakeel@gmail.com:
>
> I am trying to avoid installing rust and prevent emerge --update
> --deep world from installing it again.
> How to do this ?
>
>

On 5/11/22 18:41, Mansour Al Akeel wrote:
> Miles,
> Thank you for your response. The idea of "getting harder and harder"
> is hard to accept. Gentoo has always been about having choice> Firefox requires rust, but is there a way to disable this ?
> There must be another way to let the user decide if they need it or not !
At the distribution level, sure, but the Gentoo package maintainers
don't necessarily have the authority to control what upstream software
developers are doing. I continue to find it perplexing how many people
on this list hold responsible the Gentoo packaging for the
decision-making of upstream developers.

Significant core components of Firefox are written in Rust, and have
been for years. Whether or not this is a good thing is in the eyes of
the beholder, but it has nothing to do with the Gentoo packaging -- it's
a Mozilla decision.
>
> And yes, the compile time is one of the factors in not wanting it on
> my system. The second factor is a natural reaction toward feeling that
> I am forced to have it.
> Another reason is the growing collection of compilers and development
> tools and their build time (gcc, bin-utils, llvm, clang ... etc.) and
> now rust.
>
> Firefox itself takes a lot of time to build, and if rust is a must
> have, then maybe it is time for me to look into something else. I know
> there's firefox-bin, and if it doesn't need rust, then maybe it is an
> option.
>
> On Wed, May 11, 2022 at 8:55 PM Miles Malone
> <m.malone@homicidalteddybear.net> wrote:
>>
>> If your *reason* for wanting to remove rust is the compile time, bear
>> in mind there is also a rust-bin package these days. There are an
>> increasingly large number of major packages that have rust as a
>> dependency, so it's getting harder and harder to get away from.
>> Obviously anything from the mozilla foundation, but there's a lot of
>> others too.
>>
>> Miles
>>
>> On Thu, 12 May 2022 at 10:25, Julien Roy <julien@jroy.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>> You need to remove all packages that depend on virtual/rust
>>> To see which ones do, run `emerge -pv --depclean virtual/rust`
>>>
>>> Julien
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> May 11, 2022, 20:22 by mansour.alakeel@gmail.com:
>>>
>>> I am trying to avoid installing rust and prevent emerge --update
>>> --deep world from installing it again.
>>> How to do this ?
>>>
>>>
>>

On 2022-05-12, Mansour Al Akeel <mansour.alakeel@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thank you for your response. The idea of "getting harder and harder"
> is hard to accept. Gentoo has always been about having choices.

It is. You can choose to avoid Rust if you want.

> Firefox requires rust, but is there a way to disable this?

No.

> There must be another way to let the user decide if they need it or not!

If you need Firefox, you need rust.

> And yes, the compile time is one of the factors in not wanting it on
> my system.

rust-bin solves that problem.

> The second factor is a natural reaction toward feeling that I am
> forced to have it. Another reason is the growing collection of
> compilers and development tools and their build time (gcc,
> bin-utils, llvm, clang ... etc.) and now rust.
>
> Firefox itself takes a lot of time to build, and if rust is a must
> have, then maybe it is time for me to look into something else. I know
> there's firefox-bin, and if it doesn't need rust, then maybe it is an
> option.

Firefox-bin does not require rust.

Cal, like I said, gentoo has always been about choices. I am not
blaming anyone for anything. At the end of the day, it is open source,
and the work done by the community is highly appreciated.
I am sorry it was understood the other way around.

The frustration level grows when I have too many build tools that take
forever to build, and there's no way around it.

And yes, like Grant said, a choice would be to just go with
firefox-bin if not rust-bin.

Thank you all


On Wed, May 11, 2022 at 10:03 PM cal <cal@mail.meme.technology> wrote:
>
> On 5/11/22 18:41, Mansour Al Akeel wrote:
> > Miles,
> > Thank you for your response. The idea of "getting harder and harder"
> > is hard to accept. Gentoo has always been about having choice> Firefox requires rust, but is there a way to disable this ?
> > There must be another way to let the user decide if they need it or not !
> At the distribution level, sure, but the Gentoo package maintainers
> don't necessarily have the authority to control what upstream software
> developers are doing. I continue to find it perplexing how many people
> on this list hold responsible the Gentoo packaging for the
> decision-making of upstream developers.
>
> Significant core components of Firefox are written in Rust, and have
> been for years. Whether or not this is a good thing is in the eyes of
> the beholder, but it has nothing to do with the Gentoo packaging -- it's
> a Mozilla decision.
> >
> > And yes, the compile time is one of the factors in not wanting it on
> > my system. The second factor is a natural reaction toward feeling that
> > I am forced to have it.
> > Another reason is the growing collection of compilers and development
> > tools and their build time (gcc, bin-utils, llvm, clang ... etc.) and
> > now rust.
> >
> > Firefox itself takes a lot of time to build, and if rust is a must
> > have, then maybe it is time for me to look into something else. I know
> > there's firefox-bin, and if it doesn't need rust, then maybe it is an
> > option.
> >
> > On Wed, May 11, 2022 at 8:55 PM Miles Malone
> > <m.malone@homicidalteddybear.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> If your *reason* for wanting to remove rust is the compile time, bear
> >> in mind there is also a rust-bin package these days. There are an
> >> increasingly large number of major packages that have rust as a
> >> dependency, so it's getting harder and harder to get away from.
> >> Obviously anything from the mozilla foundation, but there's a lot of
> >> others too.
> >>
> >> Miles
> >>
> >> On Thu, 12 May 2022 at 10:25, Julien Roy <julien@jroy.ca> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> You need to remove all packages that depend on virtual/rust
> >>> To see which ones do, run `emerge -pv --depclean virtual/rust`
> >>>
> >>> Julien
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> May 11, 2022, 20:22 by mansour.alakeel@gmail.com:
> >>>
> >>> I am trying to avoid installing rust and prevent emerge --update
> >>> --deep world from installing it again.
> >>> How to do this ?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
>
>

On Wed, 2022-05-11 at 22:24 -0400, Mansour Al Akeel wrote:
> a choice would be to just go with firefox-bin if not rust-bin.

I went with rust-bin because lots of GTK programs (evince, gimp,
deluge) as well as some other miscellaneous utilities rely on librsvg
which requires rust.

So, since I need rust anyway, I just use the bin version to save
effort, but still build firefox from source in order to disable anti-
features like EME.

On 12/05/2022 02:41, Mansour Al Akeel wrote:
> And yes, the compile time is one of the factors in not wanting it on
> my system. The second factor is a natural reaction toward feeling that
> I am forced to have it.
> Another reason is the growing collection of compilers and development
> tools and their build time (gcc, bin-utils, llvm, clang ... etc.) and
> now rust.

Tongue in cheek, but have you tried doing away with gcc, clang etc?

If you're going to use a source-based system, a bunch of compilers
"comes with the territory".

Many people see Rust as a "better C than C", so that's why it's becoming
popular. (Oh, and does Rust have its own compiler, or is Rust just part
of llvm?).

The way things are going you might find all you need is the llvm
collection, and gcc will be obsolete ...

Cheers,
Wol

On Wed, 2022-05-11 at 20:22 -0400, Mansour Al Akeel wrote:
> I am trying to avoid installing rust and prevent emerge --update
> --deep world from installing it again.
> How to do this ?
>

1. Switch away from Mozilla products. Evolution is a great Thunderbird
alternative, and Epiphany is a passable Firefox substitute.

2a. Give up on SVG support in anything other than inkscape. The only
two standalone (i.e. outside of inkscape) SVG libraries involve rust.

2b. Add gnome-base/librsvg to package.provided, and use pre-built
binary packages[0] for any GTK icon themes you need. This isn't perfect
(a few application icons won't render), but it's livable.

3. If you use app-antivirus/clamav, the stable 0.103.x series will
remain rust-free and supported (in Gentoo) until it no longer works, or
has a security issue that isn't easy to backport. Unless you need this
for compliance reasons or for a mail server with third-party
signatures, the "good" news is that its detection rate has never been
great. You're not much worse off without it.

4a. Help the Gentoo developers by pointing out any packages that
currently depend on dev-python/cryptography (which now needs rust)
where that dependency can be made optional by a USE flag.

4b. If upstream is interested, you can try to port python packages away
from the cryptography package to something like pyNaCl.


[0]https://dilfridge.blogspot.com/2021/09/experimental-binary-gentoo-package.html