Mailing List Archive

On April 5, 2021 12:17:59 AM GMT+02:00, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>Howdy,
>
>As some may know, I use Seamonkey for several things.  Mostly for email
>but using it for email leads to it being used for other things, like
>clicking links in email and viewing the page in Seamonkey.  I tried
>switching to Thunderbird, which is supposed to be about the same thing
>but I didn't like it at all.  It's different and in a bad way. 
>
>Thing is, some sites are no longer working as they should.  It seems
>with each upgrade, Seamonkey has more issues with things not working
>correctly.  I might add, most add-ons, adblock being a big one, no
>longer work.  They haven't had updates in ages.  With all this, it makes
>me wonder if Seamonkey is still viable or if it is something I have set
>wrong.  Is anyone else who uses Seamonkey noticing the same problems
>with add-ons and sites not working right?  I may start trying to make a
>list of sites that don't work right. Maybe someone else can see what it
>does for them.  I know my financial sites act weird but without login
>info, no way to really test those.  I might add, it seems that sites
>with security measures are the ones with the most issues.  I use Firefox
>for most things now.  I have different profiles and even use containers
>to help secure things.  I really wish I liked Thunderbird and could use
>that and Firefox to replace Seamonkey.  Sadly, Thunderbird just isn't
>for me last I checked. 
>
>This is my Seamonkey info:
>
>
>[ebuild     U ~] www-client/seamonkey-2.53.7::gentoo
>[2.53.7_beta1::gentoo] USE="chatzilla dbus gmp-autoupdate ipc roaming
>startup-notification system-av1 system-harfbuzz system-icu system-jpeg
>system-libevent system-libvpx system-sqlite -crypt -custom-cflags
>-custom-optimization -debug -jack (-lto) -minimal (-neon) -pulseaudio
>(-selinux) -test -wifi" L10N="-cs -de -en-GB -es-AR -es-ES -fr -hu -it
>-ja -lt -nl -pl -pt-PT -ru -sk -sv -zh-CN -zh-TW"
>
>
>
>Anyone else seeing this or am I the only Gentoo user using Seamonkey? 
>
>Thanks.
>
>Dale
>
>:-)  :_) 
>

Have you considered something more modern like Neomutt?

--
Hund

Hund wrote:
> On April 5, 2021 12:17:59 AM GMT+02:00, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Howdy,
>>
>> As some may know, I use Seamonkey for several things.  Mostly for email
>> but using it for email leads to it being used for other things, like
>> clicking links in email and viewing the page in Seamonkey.  I tried
>> switching to Thunderbird, which is supposed to be about the same thing
>> but I didn't like it at all.  It's different and in a bad way. 
>>
>> Thing is, some sites are no longer working as they should.  It seems
>> with each upgrade, Seamonkey has more issues with things not working
>> correctly.  I might add, most add-ons, adblock being a big one, no
>> longer work.  They haven't had updates in ages.  With all this, it makes
>> me wonder if Seamonkey is still viable or if it is something I have set
>> wrong.  Is anyone else who uses Seamonkey noticing the same problems
>> with add-ons and sites not working right?  I may start trying to make a
>> list of sites that don't work right. Maybe someone else can see what it
>> does for them.  I know my financial sites act weird but without login
>> info, no way to really test those.  I might add, it seems that sites
>> with security measures are the ones with the most issues.  I use Firefox
>> for most things now.  I have different profiles and even use containers
>> to help secure things.  I really wish I liked Thunderbird and could use
>> that and Firefox to replace Seamonkey.  Sadly, Thunderbird just isn't
>> for me last I checked. 
>>
>> This is my Seamonkey info:
>>
>>
>> [ebuild     U ~] www-client/seamonkey-2.53.7::gentoo
>> [2.53.7_beta1::gentoo] USE="chatzilla dbus gmp-autoupdate ipc roaming
>> startup-notification system-av1 system-harfbuzz system-icu system-jpeg
>> system-libevent system-libvpx system-sqlite -crypt -custom-cflags
>> -custom-optimization -debug -jack (-lto) -minimal (-neon) -pulseaudio
>> (-selinux) -test -wifi" L10N="-cs -de -en-GB -es-AR -es-ES -fr -hu -it
>> -ja -lt -nl -pl -pt-PT -ru -sk -sv -zh-CN -zh-TW"
>>
>>
>>
>> Anyone else seeing this or am I the only Gentoo user using Seamonkey? 
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Dale
>>
>> :-)  :_) 
>>
> Have you considered something more modern like Neomutt?
>
> --
> Hund
>
>


I looked at some screenshots of it.  My first question, does it handle
HTML?  I get a lot of emails that are HTML, and maybe only HTML.  I
can't control them either.  Some are large financial type companies or
other large companies.  I confess tho, Seamonkey blocks most tracking
type stuff and images unless I make exceptions.  Well, it does until it
breaks anyway.  Since adblock is broke, it may break soon too.  When it
comes to emails, I'm pretty much a GUI with the bells and whistles type. 

My second question, can I make it work well with multiple profiles of
Firefox running?  I have profiles that have certain add-ons installed
for certain tasks.  For example, I have one that I only use to deal with
videos.  I have another that I use for banking and such.  I also use it
for ordering sites and use containers to separate those by task.  If I
click on a link, I'd need to tell it somehow what profile to open it
in.  When I tried Thunderbird, I had trouble getting it to open in
Firefox, which I found odd.  I tried just having one profile but some
add-ons don't play well with others and it gets very memory hungry. 
It's better to have different profiles for different types of uses. 

Another question, can I just copy my current emails over and "import"
them?  I think Seamonkey uses mbox type setup.  I know I could with
Thunderbird but it was a bit fussy.  It did work tho. It also made it
easier to switch back.

In a way, I don't want to switch.  Thing is, I may have to.  At the rate
Seamonkey is going, it may become a door stop.  It's getting updates but
I have no clue how well maintained it really is.  I see new features
added to Firefox all the time but Seamonkey can't even keep the most
popular add-on working anymore.  Adblock was last updated in Seamonkey
in 2017.  It's still installed but one can't even add filter
subscriptions anymore. 

Switching is going to cause all sorts of havoc.  Can I just go see the
dentist?  :/

Dale

:-)  :-)

On 06/04/21 05:19, Dale wrote:
> Another question, can I just copy my current emails over and "import"
> them? I think Seamonkey uses mbox type setup. I know I could with
> Thunderbird but it was a bit fussy. It did work tho. It also made it
> easier to switch back.

Consider setting up a local imap server. Do all email clients do imap
nowadays?

I use thunderbird, and since fetchmail broke, I just use rules to pull
everything down from the net, sort it, and copy it to local folders on
my imap server.

You could then use mutt, or neomutt, or pine, or alpine, or whatever, to
read (most of) your mail. And any html garbage they couldn't handle, you
could use thunderbird or seamonkey or whatever.

No need to move mail between different clients. And as for moving your
current stuff over, you just move it from Seamonkey's local store to the
imap server and it'll appear for all the other clients.

Because I move around between home computers, having my mail like this
exposed on an imap server is brilliant ...

Cheers,
Wol

Wols Lists wrote:
> On 06/04/21 05:19, Dale wrote:
>> Another question, can I just copy my current emails over and "import"
>> them? I think Seamonkey uses mbox type setup. I know I could with
>> Thunderbird but it was a bit fussy. It did work tho. It also made it
>> easier to switch back.
> Consider setting up a local imap server. Do all email clients do imap
> nowadays?
>
> I use thunderbird, and since fetchmail broke, I just use rules to pull
> everything down from the net, sort it, and copy it to local folders on
> my imap server.
>
> You could then use mutt, or neomutt, or pine, or alpine, or whatever, to
> read (most of) your mail. And any html garbage they couldn't handle, you
> could use thunderbird or seamonkey or whatever.
>
> No need to move mail between different clients. And as for moving your
> current stuff over, you just move it from Seamonkey's local store to the
> imap server and it'll appear for all the other clients.
>
> Because I move around between home computers, having my mail like this
> exposed on an imap server is brilliant ...
>
> Cheers,
> Wol
>
>


If I understand this correctly, that could be a good idea.  I use gmail,
want to switch so bad I can taste it, and pop access to download all
emails to my hard drive.  I do that because if I run into trouble with
my network, I have emails just in case I can find a mailing list post
that will help.  IMAP requires the internet from my understanding.  From
my understanding of your idea, I'd use a email program to download and
store the emails for me here on my system and then use any frontend,
Seamonkey, Thunderbird or whatever to read, reply etc.  It would still
give me a local copy I can access without a network connection but I can
use whatever tool I want to see them.  Interesting.  That sounds like a
awesome idea.  Once moved, I'd never have to move it again if I change
what I use to view emails. 

One thing, among others, I like about Seamonkey, folders and automatic
sorting.  For example, your reply went to a folder where all Gentoo user
mailing list emails go.  It also shows them by thread.  I like the
thread option for mailing lists but can disable it in other folders
where threads don't do well.  I repeat that for other mailing lists,
-dev for example, but also for my bank, online retailers like ebay or
Amazon etc.  Each has their own place to go.  One reason I do that, my
filters are set up in such a way that if a email is made to look like
one of those but comes from somewhere else, a scam or phishing, it
doesn't filter.  It stays in the inbox and that tells me to be
suspicious.  If I were to use IMAP, could I still do that?  Does IMAP
use folders and filters?  I admit, I don't think I've ever used IMAP. 

This sounds like a interesting idea.  I've read where people on this
list set up such a thing and it doesn't seem to complicated.  I might
could handle that with a good howto. 

Thanks much for thinking outside the box a bit here.  This could give me
lots of good options. 

Dale

:-)  :-)

On 06/04/2021 18:30, Dale wrote:
> Wols Lists wrote:
>> On 06/04/21 05:19, Dale wrote:
>>> Another question, can I just copy my current emails over and "import"
>>> them? I think Seamonkey uses mbox type setup. I know I could with
>>> Thunderbird but it was a bit fussy. It did work tho. It also made it
>>> easier to switch back.
>> Consider setting up a local imap server. Do all email clients do imap
>> nowadays?
>>
>> I use thunderbird, and since fetchmail broke, I just use rules to pull
>> everything down from the net, sort it, and copy it to local folders on
>> my imap server.
>>
>> You could then use mutt, or neomutt, or pine, or alpine, or whatever, to
>> read (most of) your mail. And any html garbage they couldn't handle, you
>> could use thunderbird or seamonkey or whatever.
>>
>> No need to move mail between different clients. And as for moving your
>> current stuff over, you just move it from Seamonkey's local store to the
>> imap server and it'll appear for all the other clients.
>>
>> Because I move around between home computers, having my mail like this
>> exposed on an imap server is brilliant ...
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Wol
>>
>>
>
>
> If I understand this correctly, that could be a good idea.  I use gmail,
> want to switch so bad I can taste it, and pop access to download all
> emails to my hard drive.  I do that because if I run into trouble with
> my network, I have emails just in case I can find a mailing list post
> that will help.  IMAP requires the internet from my understanding.  From
> my understanding of your idea, I'd use a email program to download and
> store the emails for me here on my system and then use any frontend,
> Seamonkey, Thunderbird or whatever to read, reply etc.  It would still
> give me a local copy I can access without a network connection but I can
> use whatever tool I want to see them.  Interesting.  That sounds like a
> awesome idea.  Once moved, I'd never have to move it again if I change
> what I use to view emails.

All imap requires is an imap server. The ISPs run them, Google runs
them, and why can't you run one?

I run Courier-imap, most people seem to swear by Dovecote. Just do a bit
of reading up.
>
> One thing, among others, I like about Seamonkey, folders and automatic
> sorting.  For example, your reply went to a folder where all Gentoo user
> mailing list emails go.  It also shows them by thread.  I like the
> thread option for mailing lists but can disable it in other folders
> where threads don't do well.  I repeat that for other mailing lists,
> -dev for example, but also for my bank, online retailers like ebay or
> Amazon etc.  Each has their own place to go.  One reason I do that, my
> filters are set up in such a way that if a email is made to look like
> one of those but comes from somewhere else, a scam or phishing, it
> doesn't filter.  It stays in the inbox and that tells me to be
> suspicious.  If I were to use IMAP, could I still do that?  Does IMAP
> use folders and filters?  I admit, I don't think I've ever used IMAP.

Imap is quite happy with folders. Google let you create folders, IMAP
lets you access them. No problem.
>
> This sounds like a interesting idea.  I've read where people on this
> list set up such a thing and it doesn't seem to complicated.  I might
> could handle that with a good howto.
>
> Thanks much for thinking outside the box a bit here.  This could give me
> lots of good options.
>
Read up on Courier and Dovecot. I'm sure people here will help you set
it up. Once you've got it working, point Seamonkey at it and see if you
can create folders.

Then just point your existing rules to move your emails into your imap
folders. You can keep Gmail, but all your folders and emails will be
stored locally.

And then, just like you can use any old client to access Gmail, you can
use any old client to access your local imap server!

Cheers,
Wol

On Tue, 2021-04-06 at 19:19 +0100, antlists wrote:
> Imap is quite happy with folders. Google let you create folders, IMAP
> lets you access them. No problem.

Disclaimer: I haven't used Gmail in a few years.

Interjection: Gmail does *not* support folders. Gmail uses *labels*,
which mail clients will treat as folders. This can result in
unexpected behavior, such as the same message appearing in different
folders because it is labeled in two different ways, if you are not
aware of this and expecting it to happen.

One less reason to use Gmail.

On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 12:30:36 -0500, Dale wrote:

> One thing, among others, I like about Seamonkey, folders and automatic
> sorting.  For example, your reply went to a folder where all Gentoo user
> mailing list emails go.  It also shows them by thread.  I like the
> thread option for mailing lists but can disable it in other folders
> where threads don't do well.  I repeat that for other mailing lists,
> -dev for example, but also for my bank, online retailers like ebay or
> Amazon etc.  Each has their own place to go.  One reason I do that, my
> filters are set up in such a way that if a email is made to look like
> one of those but comes from somewhere else, a scam or phishing, it
> doesn't filter.  It stays in the inbox and that tells me to be
> suspicious.  If I were to use IMAP, could I still do that?  Does IMAP
> use folders and filters?  I admit, I don't think I've ever used IMAP. 

It does support folders. You can still do the sorting in Seamonkey and
the results will be available to any other clients you use, but only if
you run Seamonkey first. The alternative is to do the sorting when the
mail is downloaded, using something like procmail. Then you mails will be
sorted regardless of the client you use.


--
Neil Bothwick

WinErr 012: Window closed - Do not look inside

On 06/04/2021 19:30, Matt Connell (Gmail) wrote:
> On Tue, 2021-04-06 at 19:19 +0100, antlists wrote:
>> Imap is quite happy with folders. Google let you create folders, IMAP
>> lets you access them. No problem.
> Disclaimer: I haven't used Gmail in a few years.
>
> Interjection: Gmail does*not* support folders. Gmail uses*labels*,
> which mail clients will treat as folders.

True. But I believe that's a recent change. Google is moving to labels
for everything, and it's driving me nuts in more ways than one ...

I think of Google as using folders, because not that long ago that's
exactly what they did.

Cheers,
Wol

On 2021-04-06, antlists <antlists@youngman.org.uk> wrote:
> On 06/04/2021 19:30, Matt Connell (Gmail) wrote:
>> On Tue, 2021-04-06 at 19:19 +0100, antlists wrote:
>>> Imap is quite happy with folders. Google let you create folders, IMAP
>>> lets you access them. No problem.
>> Disclaimer: I haven't used Gmail in a few years.
>>
>> Interjection: Gmail does*not* support folders. Gmail uses*labels*,
>> which mail clients will treat as folders.
>
> True. But I believe that's a recent change.

No, it's always been that way -- at least for all of my GMail
accounts.

> Google is moving to labels for everything, and it's driving me nuts
> in more ways than one ...
>
> I think of Google as using folders, because not that long ago that's
> exactly what they did.

Everything I've read, and all my experience since I started using mutt
with Gmail many years ago has been that GMail's IMAP server has always
implemented folders using the normal GMAIL label mechanism.

And I've always been perfectly content with that implementation.

--
Grant

antlists wrote:
> On 06/04/2021 18:30, Dale wrote:
>> Wols Lists wrote:
>>> On 06/04/21 05:19, Dale wrote:
>>>> Another question, can I just copy my current emails over and "import"
>>>> them?  I think Seamonkey uses mbox type setup.  I know I could with
>>>> Thunderbird but it was a bit fussy.  It did work tho. It also made it
>>>> easier to switch back.
>>> Consider setting up a local imap server. Do all email clients do imap
>>> nowadays?
>>>
>>> I use thunderbird, and since fetchmail broke, I just use rules to pull
>>> everything down from the net, sort it, and copy it to local folders on
>>> my imap server.
>>>
>>> You could then use mutt, or neomutt, or pine, or alpine, or
>>> whatever, to
>>> read (most of) your mail. And any html garbage they couldn't handle,
>>> you
>>> could use thunderbird or seamonkey or whatever.
>>>
>>> No need to move mail between different clients. And as for moving your
>>> current stuff over, you just move it from Seamonkey's local store to
>>> the
>>> imap server and it'll appear for all the other clients.
>>>
>>> Because I move around between home computers, having my mail like this
>>> exposed on an imap server is brilliant ...
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Wol
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> If I understand this correctly, that could be a good idea.  I use gmail,
>> want to switch so bad I can taste it, and pop access to download all
>> emails to my hard drive.  I do that because if I run into trouble with
>> my network, I have emails just in case I can find a mailing list post
>> that will help.  IMAP requires the internet from my understanding.  From
>> my understanding of your idea, I'd use a email program to download and
>> store the emails for me here on my system and then use any frontend,
>> Seamonkey, Thunderbird or whatever to read, reply etc.  It would still
>> give me a local copy I can access without a network connection but I can
>> use whatever tool I want to see them.  Interesting.  That sounds like a
>> awesome idea.  Once moved, I'd never have to move it again if I change
>> what I use to view emails.
>
> All imap requires is an imap server. The ISPs run them, Google runs
> them, and why can't you run one?
>
> I run Courier-imap, most people seem to swear by Dovecote. Just do a
> bit of reading up.
>>
>> One thing, among others, I like about Seamonkey, folders and automatic
>> sorting.  For example, your reply went to a folder where all Gentoo user
>> mailing list emails go.  It also shows them by thread.  I like the
>> thread option for mailing lists but can disable it in other folders
>> where threads don't do well.  I repeat that for other mailing lists,
>> -dev for example, but also for my bank, online retailers like ebay or
>> Amazon etc.  Each has their own place to go.  One reason I do that, my
>> filters are set up in such a way that if a email is made to look like
>> one of those but comes from somewhere else, a scam or phishing, it
>> doesn't filter.  It stays in the inbox and that tells me to be
>> suspicious.  If I were to use IMAP, could I still do that?  Does IMAP
>> use folders and filters?  I admit, I don't think I've ever used IMAP.
>
> Imap is quite happy with folders. Google let you create folders, IMAP
> lets you access them. No problem.
>>
>> This sounds like a interesting idea.  I've read where people on this
>> list set up such a thing and it doesn't seem to complicated.  I might
>> could handle that with a good howto.
>>
>> Thanks much for thinking outside the box a bit here.  This could give me
>> lots of good options.
>>
> Read up on Courier and Dovecot. I'm sure people here will help you set
> it up. Once you've got it working, point Seamonkey at it and see if
> you can create folders.
>
> Then just point your existing rules to move your emails into your imap
> folders. You can keep Gmail, but all your folders and emails will be
> stored locally.
>
> And then, just like you can use any old client to access Gmail, you
> can use any old client to access your local imap server!
>
> Cheers,
> Wol
>
>


I've done some research.  It seems Dovecot is what I need.  It uses mbox
and has some features I might need one day already where Courier doesn't
but there isn't much difference really.  If anyone is curious, the
comparison is here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_mail_servers

The biggest thing, mbox.  If I recall correctly that is what Seamonkey
uses and I should be able to import those easy enough.  It at least
gives me a head start.  Since this is a whole new deal, going to start a
new thread if nobody pops up and says nooooooo to Dovecot.  I found a
guide here: 

http://www.wikigentoo.ksiezyc.pl/Dovecot.htm

So far, it is Gentoo based.  I found another one but it is Ubuntu
based.  May work but commands are different.  Trying to go by a Gentoo
based one.  If anyone has a better one, please share links. 

May start new thread in a day or so if no one shouts nooooo. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

P. S.  One howto mentions a squirrel.  I like squirrels.  ROFL 

On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 23:41:50 -0500, Dale wrote:

> I've done some research.  It seems Dovecot is what I need.  It uses mbox
> and has some features I might need one day already where Courier doesn't
> but there isn't much difference really.  If anyone is curious, the
> comparison is here.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_mail_servers
>
> The biggest thing, mbox.  If I recall correctly that is what Seamonkey
> uses and I should be able to import those easy enough. 

You are better off with maildir, mbox is far more susceptible to date
loss through file damage. There is a script to convert an mbox file to
maildir, but you should also be able to just set up a new account in
Seamonkey using the local server and copy all your mails across. The
server will then take care of everything.


--
Neil Bothwick

If bankers can count, how come they have eight windows and only four
tellers?

On 7/4/21 3:36 pm, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 23:41:50 -0500, Dale wrote:
>
>> I've done some research.  It seems Dovecot is what I need.  It uses mbox
>> and has some features I might need one day already where Courier doesn't
>> but there isn't much difference really.  If anyone is curious, the
>> comparison is here.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_mail_servers
>>
>> The biggest thing, mbox.  If I recall correctly that is what Seamonkey
>> uses and I should be able to import those easy enough. 
> You are better off with maildir, mbox is far more susceptible to date
> loss through file damage. There is a script to convert an mbox file to
> maildir, but you should also be able to just set up a new account in
> Seamonkey using the local server and copy all your mails across. The
> server will then take care of everything.
>
>
seconded.  I use courier and maildir.  MUCH more reliable and less
chance of losing mail - there was a I time when I used mbox - no longer
the case ... speaking from personal experience ... after losing mail :)


BillK

On 4/6/2021 10:41 PM, Dale wrote:
> I've done some research.  It seems Dovecot is what I need.  It uses mbox
> and has some features I might need one day already where Courier doesn't
> but there isn't much difference really.  If anyone is curious, the
> comparison is here.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_mail_servers
>
> The biggest thing, mbox.  If I recall correctly that is what Seamonkey
> uses and I should be able to import those easy enough.  It at least
> gives me a head start.  Since this is a whole new deal, going to start a
> new thread if nobody pops up and says nooooooo to Dovecot.  I found a
> guide here:
>
Seamonkey is a web browser. Therefore, mbox vs maildir is meaningless to
it. All it knows it it talks to the imap server and the imap server
replies and sends a message.

Having said that, AVOID mbox like the plague! It is only a matter of
time before mbox mail files get corrupted. Maildir is INFINITELY safer.
And in the event of corruption in maildir, you loose ONLY the corrupted
messages. Corrupt your mbox file and you're likely to loose the whole
folder!

As far as moving from one to another, both mbox and maildir are
standards. So if imap server X and Y both use Maildir, then swapping
between them is easy, and POINTLESS, due to the fact that imap maintains
the files on your server. So, if you move to a different mail CLIENT
(thunderbird for example) then the new client only needs to take the
time to re-download the messages from the server. It's the same way
webmail and a client can work together. Neither is doing the actual work
with the files. Each is only sending commands to a separate server
program to work with the files.

> http://www.wikigentoo.ksiezyc.pl/Dovecot.htm
>
> So far, it is Gentoo based.  I found another one but it is Ubuntu
> based.  May work but commands are different.  Trying to go by a Gentoo
> based one.  If anyone has a better one, please share links.
>
> May start new thread in a day or so if no one shouts nooooo.
Consider this the shout. I can't stop you from using mbox, but I can
shout at the top of my lungs that it's a BAD IDEA. And I can say over
and over that changing your imap SERVER will have ZERO impact on what
Seamonkey does. The only exception would be if you have a mail server
(original or new) that doesn't fully follow the imap protocol. And in
that case, who knows what the change will do.

Okay, how this one got posted, I have no idea. Sorry about the dupe. I
didn't hit SEND except on the second one, so I guess thunderbird goofed up.

On 4/7/2021 2:11 AM, Dan Egli wrote:
> On 4/6/2021 10:41 PM, Dale wrote:
>> I've done some research.  It seems Dovecot is what I need.  It uses mbox
>> and has some features I might need one day already where Courier doesn't
>> but there isn't much difference really.  If anyone is curious, the
>> comparison is here.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_mail_servers
>>
>> The biggest thing, mbox.  If I recall correctly that is what Seamonkey
>> uses and I should be able to import those easy enough.  It at least
>> gives me a head start.  Since this is a whole new deal, going to start a
>> new thread if nobody pops up and says nooooooo to Dovecot.  I found a
>> guide here:
>>
> Seamonkey is a web browser. Therefore, mbox vs maildir is meaningless
> to it. All it knows it it talks to the imap server and the imap server
> replies and sends a message.
>
> Having said that, AVOID mbox like the plague! It is only a matter of
> time before mbox mail files get corrupted. Maildir is INFINITELY
> safer. And in the event of corruption in maildir, you loose ONLY the
> corrupted messages. Corrupt your mbox file and you're likely to loose
> the whole folder!
>
> As far as moving from one to another, both mbox and maildir are
> standards. So if imap server X and Y both use Maildir, then swapping
> between them is easy, and POINTLESS, due to the fact that i
>
>> http://www.wikigentoo.ksiezyc.pl/Dovecot.htm
>>
>> So far, it is Gentoo based.  I found another one but it is Ubuntu
>> based.  May work but commands are different.  Trying to go by a Gentoo
>> based one.  If anyone has a better one, please share links.
>>
>> May start new thread in a day or so if no one shouts nooooo.
> Consider this the shout. I can't stop you from using mbox, but I can
> shout at the top of my lungs that it's a BAD IDEA.

William Kenworthy wrote:
> On 7/4/21 3:36 pm, Neil Bothwick wrote:
>> On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 23:41:50 -0500, Dale wrote:
>>
>>> I've done some research.  It seems Dovecot is what I need.  It uses mbox
>>> and has some features I might need one day already where Courier doesn't
>>> but there isn't much difference really.  If anyone is curious, the
>>> comparison is here.
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_mail_servers
>>>
>>> The biggest thing, mbox.  If I recall correctly that is what Seamonkey
>>> uses and I should be able to import those easy enough. 
>> You are better off with maildir, mbox is far more susceptible to date
>> loss through file damage. There is a script to convert an mbox file to
>> maildir, but you should also be able to just set up a new account in
>> Seamonkey using the local server and copy all your mails across. The
>> server will then take care of everything.
>>
>>
> seconded.  I use courier and maildir.  MUCH more reliable and less
> chance of losing mail - there was a I time when I used mbox - no longer
> the case ... speaking from personal experience ... after losing mail :)
>
>
> BillK
>
>
>
>


I think Dovecot can use a few formats.  I think.  I just want a way I
can revert back easily to if needed.  So far, I've never lost a email. 
So far.  Today is a new day tho. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Dan Egli wrote:
> On 4/6/2021 10:41 PM, Dale wrote:
>> I've done some research.  It seems Dovecot is what I need.  It uses mbox
>> and has some features I might need one day already where Courier doesn't
>> but there isn't much difference really.  If anyone is curious, the
>> comparison is here.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_mail_servers
>>
>> The biggest thing, mbox.  If I recall correctly that is what Seamonkey
>> uses and I should be able to import those easy enough.  It at least
>> gives me a head start.  Since this is a whole new deal, going to start a
>> new thread if nobody pops up and says nooooooo to Dovecot.  I found a
>> guide here:
>>
> Seamonkey is a web browser. Therefore, mbox vs maildir is meaningless
> to it. All it knows it it talks to the imap server and the imap server
> replies and sends a message.
>
> Having said that, AVOID mbox like the plague! It is only a matter of
> time before mbox mail files get corrupted. Maildir is INFINITELY
> safer. And in the event of corruption in maildir, you loose ONLY the
> corrupted messages. Corrupt your mbox file and you're likely to loose
> the whole folder!
>
> As far as moving from one to another, both mbox and maildir are
> standards. So if imap server X and Y both use Maildir, then swapping
> between them is easy, and POINTLESS, due to the fact that imap
> maintains the files on your server. So, if you move to a different
> mail CLIENT (thunderbird for example) then the new client only needs
> to take the time to re-download the messages from the server. It's the
> same way webmail and a client can work together. Neither is doing the
> actual work with the files. Each is only sending commands to a
> separate server program to work with the files.
>
>> http://www.wikigentoo.ksiezyc.pl/Dovecot.htm
>>
>> So far, it is Gentoo based.  I found another one but it is Ubuntu
>> based.  May work but commands are different.  Trying to go by a Gentoo
>> based one.  If anyone has a better one, please share links.
>>
>> May start new thread in a day or so if no one shouts nooooo.
> Consider this the shout. I can't stop you from using mbox, but I can
> shout at the top of my lungs that it's a BAD IDEA. And I can say over
> and over that changing your imap SERVER will have ZERO impact on what
> Seamonkey does. The only exception would be if you have a mail server
> (original or new) that doesn't fully follow the imap protocol. And in
> that case, who knows what the change will do.
>


I looked, Dovecot can use either mbox or maildir.  Can Dovecot convert
those to or must I use a different tool? 

To anyone using Dovecot, just what all had to be installed?  This is
what emerge gives me right now. 


root@fireball / # emerge -av dovecot

These are the packages that would be merged, in order:

Calculating dependencies... done!
[ebuild  N     ] acct-group/dovecot-0-r1::gentoo  0 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] acct-group/dovenull-0-r1::gentoo  0 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] acct-user/dovecot-0-r1::gentoo  0 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] acct-user/dovenull-0-r1::gentoo  0 KiB
[ebuild  N     ] net-mail/dovecot-2.3.13-r100::gentoo  USE="bzip2 ipv6
lzma mysql pam sqlite tcpd zlib -argon2 -caps -doc -kerberos -ldap
(-libressl) -lua -lucene -lz4 -managesieve -postgres -rpc (-selinux)
-sieve -solr -static-libs -suid -textcat -unwind -zstd"
LUA_SINGLE_TARGET="lua5-1 -lua5-2 -lua5-3" 7,282 KiB

Total: 5 packages (5 new), Size of downloads: 7,282 KiB

Would you like to merge these packages? [Yes/No]


I suspect I need to install some other packages to make certain things
work.  Then again, maybe they already installed??  Some may recall that
cron jobs sent emails so it has to have packages installed for that. 
The guide I linked to elsewhere has USE flags not listed above.  It may
be out of date.  It does say not to use it for older 1.* versions of
Dovecot tho.  Just trying to see what I'm getting into here.  I think
this is a really good idea but want to see how deep the water is before
jumping in.  I can't swim, well, I do, like a lead rock.  :/

Thanks.

Dale

:-)  :-)

On 4/7/2021 2:34 AM, Dale wrote:
> Dan Egli wrote:
>> On 4/6/2021 10:41 PM, Dale wrote:
>>> I've done some research.  It seems Dovecot is what I need.  It uses mbox
>>> and has some features I might need one day already where Courier doesn't
>>> but there isn't much difference really.  If anyone is curious, the
>>> comparison is here.
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_mail_servers
>>>
>>> The biggest thing, mbox.  If I recall correctly that is what Seamonkey
>>> uses and I should be able to import those easy enough.  It at least
>>> gives me a head start.  Since this is a whole new deal, going to start a
>>> new thread if nobody pops up and says nooooooo to Dovecot.  I found a
>>> guide here:
>>>
>> Seamonkey is a web browser. Therefore, mbox vs maildir is meaningless
>> to it. All it knows it it talks to the imap server and the imap server
>> replies and sends a message.
>>
>> Having said that, AVOID mbox like the plague! It is only a matter of
>> time before mbox mail files get corrupted. Maildir is INFINITELY
>> safer. And in the event of corruption in maildir, you loose ONLY the
>> corrupted messages. Corrupt your mbox file and you're likely to loose
>> the whole folder!
>>
>> As far as moving from one to another, both mbox and maildir are
>> standards. So if imap server X and Y both use Maildir, then swapping
>> between them is easy, and POINTLESS, due to the fact that imap
>> maintains the files on your server. So, if you move to a different
>> mail CLIENT (thunderbird for example) then the new client only needs
>> to take the time to re-download the messages from the server. It's the
>> same way webmail and a client can work together. Neither is doing the
>> actual work with the files. Each is only sending commands to a
>> separate server program to work with the files.
>>
>>> http://www.wikigentoo.ksiezyc.pl/Dovecot.htm
>>>
>>> So far, it is Gentoo based.  I found another one but it is Ubuntu
>>> based.  May work but commands are different.  Trying to go by a Gentoo
>>> based one.  If anyone has a better one, please share links.
>>>
>>> May start new thread in a day or so if no one shouts nooooo.
>> Consider this the shout. I can't stop you from using mbox, but I can
>> shout at the top of my lungs that it's a BAD IDEA. And I can say over
>> and over that changing your imap SERVER will have ZERO impact on what
>> Seamonkey does. The only exception would be if you have a mail server
>> (original or new) that doesn't fully follow the imap protocol. And in
>> that case, who knows what the change will do.
>>
>
> I looked, Dovecot can use either mbox or maildir.  Can Dovecot convert
> those to or must I use a different tool?
>
> To anyone using Dovecot, just what all had to be installed?  This is
> what emerge gives me right now.
>
I use dovecot here. What you see is plenty for the standard install. the
managesieve flag allows you to write custom scripts in the seieve
language. But I don't recommend getting into that until you know the
language. Other than that, the other disabled flags are fairly
self-explanatory.

As for converting, you would need to have two instances with two
different configs running to do that. Then you'd use your mail client to
move messages between accounts. But I __STILL__ say you should NOT use
mbox format. If you happen to be using it now, then I recommend you
convert! Converting TO maildir is not hard if you use formail.

> root@fireball / # emerge -av dovecot
>
> These are the packages that would be merged, in order:
>
> Calculating dependencies... done!
> [ebuild  N     ] acct-group/dovecot-0-r1::gentoo  0 KiB
> [ebuild  N     ] acct-group/dovenull-0-r1::gentoo  0 KiB
> [ebuild  N     ] acct-user/dovecot-0-r1::gentoo  0 KiB
> [ebuild  N     ] acct-user/dovenull-0-r1::gentoo  0 KiB
> [ebuild  N     ] net-mail/dovecot-2.3.13-r100::gentoo  USE="bzip2 ipv6
> lzma mysql pam sqlite tcpd zlib -argon2 -caps -doc -kerberos -ldap
> (-libressl) -lua -lucene -lz4 -managesieve -postgres -rpc (-selinux)
> -sieve -solr -static-libs -suid -textcat -unwind -zstd"
> LUA_SINGLE_TARGET="lua5-1 -lua5-2 -lua5-3" 7,282 KiB
>
> Total: 5 packages (5 new), Size of downloads: 7,282 KiB
>
> Would you like to merge these packages? [Yes/No]
>
>
> I suspect I need to install some other packages to make certain things
> work.  Then again, maybe they already installed??  Some may recall that
> cron jobs sent emails so it has to have packages installed for that.
> The guide I linked to elsewhere has USE flags not listed above.  It may
> be out of date.  It does say not to use it for older 1.* versions of
> Dovecot tho.  Just trying to see what I'm getting into here.  I think
> this is a really good idea but want to see how deep the water is before
> jumping in.  I can't swim, well, I do, like a lead rock.  :/
>

My config is more advanced since my dovecot has to talk to both MySQL
and LDAP databases, and to support compressed messages. So the use flags
I put on for 2.3.13-r100 are:
bzip2 doc ipv6 ldap lua lz4 lzma managesieve mysql pam rpc selinux sieve
sqlite zlib ztd

On 07/04/2021 05:41, Dale wrote:
> The biggest thing, mbox.  If I recall correctly that is what Seamonkey
> uses and I should be able to import those easy enough.  It at least
> gives me a head start.  Since this is a whole new deal, going to start a
> new thread if nobody pops up and says nooooooo to Dovecot.  I found a
> guide here:

Stop thinking about importing.

Point Seamonkey at Dovecot (I assume it can have multiple mail accounts
like Thunderbird). Then just copy the emails across just like you'd move
anything else around in Seamonkey (or Thunderbird).

What format the backend stores the email in isn't really important.
Unless (which may well be the case :-) you want easy access to back them
up, and to understand how the backend works.

Cheers,
Wol

antlists wrote:
> On 07/04/2021 05:41, Dale wrote:
>> The biggest thing, mbox.  If I recall correctly that is what Seamonkey
>> uses and I should be able to import those easy enough.  It at least
>> gives me a head start.  Since this is a whole new deal, going to start a
>> new thread if nobody pops up and says nooooooo to Dovecot.  I found a
>> guide here:
>
> Stop thinking about importing.
>
> Point Seamonkey at Dovecot (I assume it can have multiple mail
> accounts like Thunderbird). Then just copy the emails across just like
> you'd move anything else around in Seamonkey (or Thunderbird).
>
> What format the backend stores the email in isn't really important.
> Unless (which may well be the case :-) you want easy access to back
> them up, and to understand how the backend works.
>
> Cheers,
> Wol
>
>

That is likely doable to.  I'm just used to copying the files over.  I
assume when I copy, it will convert from mbox to maildir as well?  I've
never seen or used maildir before so no idea what it looks like or how
it works.  That said, I've never had trouble with mbox either.

Got a lot on plate today.  Will reply to others later.  Headed to town
to pick up some MUCH needed supplies.  Hope my antique car can handle
this.  o_O

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Dan Egli wrote:
> On 4/7/2021 2:34 AM, Dale wrote:
>
>> root@fireball / # emerge -av dovecot
>>
>> These are the packages that would be merged, in order:
>>
>> Calculating dependencies... done!
>> [ebuild  N     ] acct-group/dovecot-0-r1::gentoo  0 KiB
>> [ebuild  N     ] acct-group/dovenull-0-r1::gentoo  0 KiB
>> [ebuild  N     ] acct-user/dovecot-0-r1::gentoo  0 KiB
>> [ebuild  N     ] acct-user/dovenull-0-r1::gentoo  0 KiB
>> [ebuild  N     ] net-mail/dovecot-2.3.13-r100::gentoo  USE="bzip2 ipv6
>> lzma mysql pam sqlite tcpd zlib -argon2 -caps -doc -kerberos -ldap
>> (-libressl) -lua -lucene -lz4 -managesieve -postgres -rpc (-selinux)
>> -sieve -solr -static-libs -suid -textcat -unwind -zstd"
>> LUA_SINGLE_TARGET="lua5-1 -lua5-2 -lua5-3" 7,282 KiB
>>
>> Total: 5 packages (5 new), Size of downloads: 7,282 KiB
>>
>> Would you like to merge these packages? [Yes/No]
>>
>>
>> I suspect I need to install some other packages to make certain things
>> work.  Then again, maybe they already installed??  Some may recall that
>> cron jobs sent emails so it has to have packages installed for that.
>> The guide I linked to elsewhere has USE flags not listed above.  It may
>> be out of date.  It does say not to use it for older 1.* versions of
>> Dovecot tho.  Just trying to see what I'm getting into here.  I think
>> this is a really good idea but want to see how deep the water is before
>> jumping in.  I can't swim, well, I do, like a lead rock.  :/
>>
>
> My config is more advanced since my dovecot has to talk to both MySQL
> and LDAP databases, and to support compressed messages. So the use
> flags I put on for 2.3.13-r100 are:
> bzip2 doc ipv6 ldap lua lz4 lzma managesieve mysql pam rpc selinux
> sieve sqlite zlib ztd
>
>
>


I been trying to find a up to date guide on this.  I'm not having much
luck.  I tried the Dovecot site but they seem to cater to people wanting
a space ship going to Mars or something.  Does anyone have a link to a
simple guide I can follow?  The ones I found talk about options that
don't even exist.  They are for the 2.* version but seem to be out of
date never the less.  Even the Gentoo wiki one I found has a part that
is out of date, says so above it.  I missed out on the squirrel.  :/  I
think I'm missing the part that I can access it with a GUI, like when I
go to mail.google.com or something. 

Any links would be nice.  At this point, it's emerged, I'm clueless from
there.  I don't even know how to access it to see if it is even running,
other than ps showing it. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

On Thu, 8 Apr 2021 17:58:06 -0500, Dale wrote:

> I been trying to find a up to date guide on this.  I'm not having much
> luck.  I tried the Dovecot site but they seem to cater to people wanting
> a space ship going to Mars or something.  Does anyone have a link to a
> simple guide I can follow?  The ones I found talk about options that
> don't even exist.  They are for the 2.* version but seem to be out of
> date never the less.  Even the Gentoo wiki one I found has a part that
> is out of date, says so above it.  I missed out on the squirrel.  :/

If you're accessing it locally only, the default settings should be fine.
The only thing you may want to change is the location of the mail
storage. Look for the mail_location setting at the top of
/etc/dovecot/conf.d/10-mail.conf. Then fire up Seamonkey, create a new
IMAP account and tell it to use localhost for the server.

> I
> think I'm missing the part that I can access it with a GUI, like when I
> go to mail.google.com or something. 

Dovecot is an IMP server, it doesn't have a GUI. What you are thinking of
is a webmail *client*. That's just another client, like Thunderbird or
mutt, as far as Dovecot is concerned. There are a few webmail clients
available, I use Roundcube.


--
Neil Bothwick

I'd tell you a UDP joke, but you may not get it.

On 4/8/2021 5:12 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote:
>> I
>> think I'm missing the part that I can access it with a GUI, like when I
>> go to mail.google.com or something.
> Dovecot is an IMP server, it doesn't have a GUI. What you are thinking of
> is a webmail *client*. That's just another client, like Thunderbird or
> mutt, as far as Dovecot is concerned. There are a few webmail clients
> available, I use Roundcube.
It all depends on what you want. I've not used Roundcube, although I
hear it's good. I've used SquirrelMail, Horde, and SOGo. I personally
prefer SOGo, but it's complicated to setup. SquirrelMail is easy, but
lacks a lot of features that SOGo had. Horde is kind of in the middle.
The only thing I'd watch out for is that if you use SOGo, the gentoo
packages are WAY out of date. The most recent SOGo package in portage is
4.3.2, but you can get the sources for 5.1.0 from the SOGO.NU website.

On Friday, 9 April 2021 00:56:27 BST Dan Egli wrote:
> On 4/8/2021 5:12 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> >> I
> >> think I'm missing the part that I can access it with a GUI, like when I
> >> go to mail.google.com or something.
> >
> > Dovecot is an IMP server, it doesn't have a GUI. What you are thinking of
> > is a webmail *client*. That's just another client, like Thunderbird or
> > mutt, as far as Dovecot is concerned. There are a few webmail clients
> > available, I use Roundcube.
>
> It all depends on what you want. I've not used Roundcube, although I
> hear it's good. I've used SquirrelMail, Horde, and SOGo. I personally
> prefer SOGo, but it's complicated to setup. SquirrelMail is easy, but
> lacks a lot of features that SOGo had. Horde is kind of in the middle.
> The only thing I'd watch out for is that if you use SOGo, the gentoo
> packages are WAY out of date. The most recent SOGo package in portage is
> 4.3.2, but you can get the sources for 5.1.0 from the SOGO.NU website.

Quick clarification:

A webmail client is a web app, served by a webserver. Adding all these
packages, complication and configuration, on what otherwise remains a desktop
installation/use case, when the OP already uses a mail client application on
localhost to access his emails, makes me think it's a bit of an overkill.

Unless, instead of a mail client desktop application, a webmail interface is
preferred and the burden of configuring and maintaining so many more packages
is acceptable.