Mailing List Archive

> On 2021-02-09, at 03:43, n952162 <n952162@web.de> wrote:
>
> If an update requires additional steps, shouldn't that have appeared in the news?

No because how it's done is totally dependent on your needs. There's no one correct way to do it. Even in common cases, some may choose to use certain kinds of file systems or other things that cannot be covered. Gentoo is all about customisability.

Shameless plug: use upgrade-kernel from my upkeep package[1] (which is on tatsh-overlay)[2] . It supports updating/rebuilding the kernel plus MBR|UEFI/GRUB/Dracut and systemd-boot+UEFI/Dracut/kernel signing (latest HEAD only).

1. https://github.com/Tatsh/upkeep#automatic-kernel-update-process
2. https://github.com/Tatsh/tatsh-overlay#installation

n952162 wrote:
>
> Are extra administrative steps necessary when --sync brings in a new
> kernel, as in:
>
>   https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Kernel/Upgrade
>
> I currently have this situation:
>
> $ uname -a
> Linux host *4.19.72-gentoo* #7 SMP Tue Jun 9 19:51:52 CEST 2020 x86_64
> GNU/Linux
>
> $ eselect kernel list
> Available kernel symlink targets:
>   [1]   linux-5.4.72-gentoo
>   [2]   linux-5.4.80-gentoo-r1
>   [3]   linux-5.4.92-gentoo
>
> If an update requires additional steps, shouldn't that have appeared
> in the news?
>
>


It depends I think.  I say think because there may be a binary kernel
available which will upgrade itself.  I seem to recall reading about it
on a mailing list somewhere.  I have no experience with it tho.  That
said, if you use the old method, you have to upgrade the kernel
yourself.  There are scripts you can use to help automate it a good bit
but some of us still do it the manual way.  When you do updates, emerge
will pull in the new sources but the rest is up to you.  I suspect most
that do it the old way, copy .config over to the new kernel directory,
run make oldconfig and answer the questions, compile the new kernel,
copy it to /boot using the right method which there is a few of and then
configure your bootloader if needed.  The link you posted explains this
in more detail, and may be more complete too. 

I'm trying to remember what that binary kernel thing is called.  I just
skimmed the messages so it could be something else or not even in the
tree yet. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

On Tue, 9 Feb 2021 at 10:05, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm trying to remember what that binary kernel thing is called. I just
> skimmed the messages so it could be something else or not even in the
> tree yet.

I believe you're thinking of sys-kernel/gentoo-kernel-bin (also
available without -bin, which I believe is also automatically built
and installed for you).

Regards,
Arve

On 2/9/21 10:05 AM, Dale wrote:
> n952162 wrote:
>> Are extra administrative steps necessary when --sync brings in a new
>> kernel, as in:
>>
>>   https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Kernel/Upgrade
>>
>> I currently have this situation:
>>
>> $ uname -a
>> Linux host *4.19.72-gentoo* #7 SMP Tue Jun 9 19:51:52 CEST 2020 x86_64
>> GNU/Linux
>>
>> $ eselect kernel list
>> Available kernel symlink targets:
>>   [1]   linux-5.4.72-gentoo
>>   [2]   linux-5.4.80-gentoo-r1
>>   [3]   linux-5.4.92-gentoo
>>
>> If an update requires additional steps, shouldn't that have appeared
>> in the news?
>>
>>
>
> It depends I think.  I say think because there may be a binary kernel
> available which will upgrade itself.  I seem to recall reading about it
> on a mailing list somewhere.  I have no experience with it tho.  That
> said, if you use the old method, you have to upgrade the kernel
> yourself.  There are scripts you can use to help automate it a good bit
> but some of us still do it the manual way.  When you do updates, emerge
> will pull in the new sources but the rest is up to you.  I suspect most
> that do it the old way, copy .config over to the new kernel directory,
> run make oldconfig and answer the questions, compile the new kernel,
> copy it to /boot using the right method which there is a few of and then
> configure your bootloader if needed.  The link you posted explains this
> in more detail, and may be more complete too.
>
> I'm trying to remember what that binary kernel thing is called.  I just
> skimmed the messages so it could be something else or not even in the
> tree yet.
>
> Dale
>
> :-)  :-)
>

Ah, maybe I have a theory what's going on ... maybe there's no news that
it's time to upgrade the kernel, because it's not meant that the kernel
necessarily needs to be upgraded ... except that it seems that the
virtualbox-modules package might have a (unfortunate) dependency on that...

On Tuesday, 9 February 2021 10:01:04 GMT n952162 wrote:
> On 2/9/21 10:05 AM, Dale wrote:
> > n952162 wrote:
> >> Are extra administrative steps necessary when --sync brings in a new
> >>
> >> kernel, as in:
> >> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Kernel/Upgrade
> >>
> >> I currently have this situation:
> >>
> >> $ uname -a
> >> Linux host *4.19.72-gentoo* #7 SMP Tue Jun 9 19:51:52 CEST 2020 x86_64
> >> GNU/Linux
> >>
> >> $ eselect kernel list
> >>
> >> Available kernel symlink targets:
> >> [1] linux-5.4.72-gentoo
> >> [2] linux-5.4.80-gentoo-r1
> >> [3] linux-5.4.92-gentoo
> >>
> >> If an update requires additional steps, shouldn't that have appeared
> >> in the news?
> >
> > It depends I think. I say think because there may be a binary kernel
> > available which will upgrade itself. I seem to recall reading about it
> > on a mailing list somewhere. I have no experience with it tho. That
> > said, if you use the old method, you have to upgrade the kernel
> > yourself. There are scripts you can use to help automate it a good bit
> > but some of us still do it the manual way. When you do updates, emerge
> > will pull in the new sources but the rest is up to you. I suspect most
> > that do it the old way, copy .config over to the new kernel directory,
> > run make oldconfig and answer the questions, compile the new kernel,
> > copy it to /boot using the right method which there is a few of and then
> > configure your bootloader if needed. The link you posted explains this
> > in more detail, and may be more complete too.
> >
> > I'm trying to remember what that binary kernel thing is called. I just
> > skimmed the messages so it could be something else or not even in the
> > tree yet.
> >
> > Dale
> >
> > :-) :-)
>
> Ah, maybe I have a theory what's going on ... maybe there's no news that
> it's time to upgrade the kernel, because it's not meant that the kernel
> necessarily needs to be upgraded ... except that it seems that the
> virtualbox-modules package might have a (unfortunate) dependency on that...

I'm not sure I understand completely why there should be a news item from
portage whenever new kernel sources are updated and downloaded. It is up the
system administrator to configure and build the new sources if desired.

Each time you upgrade your kernel on the host, external modules will require
updating/rebuilding. The set '@module-rebuild' does that instead of having to
re-emerge manually each external module.

You seem to be running an old kernel. VBox and its modules changed recently
so these will need to be updated - there may be a conflict with older host
kernels and as you report you've come across it.

The eselect list you showed does not have a selected kernel source. What is
linked to /usr/src/linux on your system?

$ ls -l /usr/src/

Upgrading your kernel and any external modules (inc. VBox's) should fix
whatever is currently giving you trouble.

On 2/9/21 12:57 PM, Michael wrote:
> On Tuesday, 9 February 2021 10:01:04 GMT n952162 wrote:
>> On 2/9/21 10:05 AM, Dale wrote:
>>> n952162 wrote:
>>>> Are extra administrative steps necessary when --sync brings in a new
>>>>
>>>> kernel, as in:
>>>> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Kernel/Upgrade
>>>>
>>>> I currently have this situation:
>>>>
>>>> $ uname -a
>>>> Linux host *4.19.72-gentoo* #7 SMP Tue Jun 9 19:51:52 CEST 2020 x86_64
>>>> GNU/Linux
>>>>
>>>> $ eselect kernel list
>>>>
>>>> Available kernel symlink targets:
>>>> [1] linux-5.4.72-gentoo
>>>> [2] linux-5.4.80-gentoo-r1
>>>> [3] linux-5.4.92-gentoo
>>>>
>>>> If an update requires additional steps, shouldn't that have appeared
>>>> in the news?
>>> It depends I think. I say think because there may be a binary kernel
>>> available which will upgrade itself. I seem to recall reading about it
>>> on a mailing list somewhere. I have no experience with it tho. That
>>> said, if you use the old method, you have to upgrade the kernel
>>> yourself. There are scripts you can use to help automate it a good bit
>>> but some of us still do it the manual way. When you do updates, emerge
>>> will pull in the new sources but the rest is up to you. I suspect most
>>> that do it the old way, copy .config over to the new kernel directory,
>>> run make oldconfig and answer the questions, compile the new kernel,
>>> copy it to /boot using the right method which there is a few of and then
>>> configure your bootloader if needed. The link you posted explains this
>>> in more detail, and may be more complete too.
>>>
>>> I'm trying to remember what that binary kernel thing is called. I just
>>> skimmed the messages so it could be something else or not even in the
>>> tree yet.
>>>
>>> Dale
>>>
>>> :-) :-)
>> Ah, maybe I have a theory what's going on ... maybe there's no news that
>> it's time to upgrade the kernel, because it's not meant that the kernel
>> necessarily needs to be upgraded ... except that it seems that the
>> virtualbox-modules package might have a (unfortunate) dependency on that...
> I'm not sure I understand completely why there should be a news item from
> portage whenever new kernel sources are updated and downloaded. It is up the
> system administrator to configure and build the new sources if desired.


gentoo policy is that administrators need to keep their systems
up-to-date.  The promise is, if they do so, the dependency system will
be reliable.

The kernel version is apparently an exception to this.  The updating
mechanism does not require that this track the synchronization of the
portage tree.  Administrators are free to decide what kernel they want
to use.  This works - except for virtualbox-modules.



>
> Each time you upgrade your kernel on the host, external modules will require
> updating/rebuilding. The set '@module-rebuild' does that instead of having to
> re-emerge manually each external module.


Yes, in another context, your tip about this helped me to solve a
separate problem with vbox.  A quick survey didn't find mention of this
facility in the handbook.  Perhaps I missed it.


>
> You seem to be running an old kernel. VBox and its modules changed recently
> so these will need to be updated - there may be a conflict with older host
> kernels and as you report you've come across it.


what is the most efficient way for an administrator to known when a new
kernel is available and advisable?


>
> The eselect list you showed does not have a selected kernel source. What is
> linked to /usr/src/linux on your system?
>
> $ ls -l /usr/src/


It is properly linked considering the configuration:

$ ll /usr/src/linux
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 20 Nov  8  2019 /usr/src/linux ->
linux-4.19.72-gentoo


> Upgrading your kernel and any external modules (inc. VBox's) should fix
> whatever is currently giving you trouble.


Okay, thank you.

On Tuesday, 9 February 2021 13:25:01 GMT n952162 wrote:
> On 2/9/21 12:57 PM, Michael wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 9 February 2021 10:01:04 GMT n952162 wrote:
> >> On 2/9/21 10:05 AM, Dale wrote:
> >>> n952162 wrote:
> >>>> Are extra administrative steps necessary when --sync brings in a new
> >>>>
> >>>> kernel, as in:
> >>>> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Kernel/Upgrade
> >>>>
> >>>> I currently have this situation:
> >>>>
> >>>> $ uname -a
> >>>> Linux host *4.19.72-gentoo* #7 SMP Tue Jun 9 19:51:52 CEST 2020 x86_64
> >>>> GNU/Linux
> >>>>
> >>>> $ eselect kernel list
> >>>>
> >>>> Available kernel symlink targets:
> >>>> [1] linux-5.4.72-gentoo
> >>>> [2] linux-5.4.80-gentoo-r1
> >>>> [3] linux-5.4.92-gentoo
> >>>>
> >>>> If an update requires additional steps, shouldn't that have appeared
> >>>> in the news?
> >>>
> >>> It depends I think. I say think because there may be a binary kernel
> >>> available which will upgrade itself. I seem to recall reading about it
> >>> on a mailing list somewhere. I have no experience with it tho. That
> >>> said, if you use the old method, you have to upgrade the kernel
> >>> yourself. There are scripts you can use to help automate it a good bit
> >>> but some of us still do it the manual way. When you do updates, emerge
> >>> will pull in the new sources but the rest is up to you. I suspect most
> >>> that do it the old way, copy .config over to the new kernel directory,
> >>> run make oldconfig and answer the questions, compile the new kernel,
> >>> copy it to /boot using the right method which there is a few of and then
> >>> configure your bootloader if needed. The link you posted explains this
> >>> in more detail, and may be more complete too.
> >>>
> >>> I'm trying to remember what that binary kernel thing is called. I just
> >>> skimmed the messages so it could be something else or not even in the
> >>> tree yet.
> >>>
> >>> Dale
> >>>
> >>> :-) :-)
> >>
> >> Ah, maybe I have a theory what's going on ... maybe there's no news that
> >> it's time to upgrade the kernel, because it's not meant that the kernel
> >> necessarily needs to be upgraded ... except that it seems that the
> >> virtualbox-modules package might have a (unfortunate) dependency on
> >> that...
> >
> > I'm not sure I understand completely why there should be a news item from
> > portage whenever new kernel sources are updated and downloaded. It is up
> > the system administrator to configure and build the new sources if
> > desired.
> gentoo policy is that administrators need to keep their systems
> up-to-date. The promise is, if they do so, the dependency system will
> be reliable.
>
> The kernel version is apparently an exception to this. The updating
> mechanism does not require that this track the synchronization of the
> portage tree. Administrators are free to decide what kernel they want
> to use. This works - except for virtualbox-modules.
>
> > Each time you upgrade your kernel on the host, external modules will
> > require updating/rebuilding. The set '@module-rebuild' does that instead
> > of having to re-emerge manually each external module.
>
> Yes, in another context, your tip about this helped me to solve a
> separate problem with vbox. A quick survey didn't find mention of this
> facility in the handbook. Perhaps I missed it.

Yes, I just found it in the Handbook here:

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/Kernel#Post-install.
2Fupgrade_tasks


and in the wiki here:

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Kernel/
Upgrade#Reinstalling_external_kernel_modules


> > You seem to be running an old kernel. VBox and its modules changed
> > recently so these will need to be updated - there may be a conflict with
> > older host kernels and as you report you've come across it.
>
> what is the most efficient way for an administrator to known when a new
> kernel is available and advisable?

I don't know of a generic recommended way to go about this, but I have 'sys-
kernel/gentoo-sources' in my world file, so the latest stable version is
downloaded once available. Then I build the kernel when convenient and run
'@module-rebuild' to update any external module packages.

The problem could arise when some package, in this case VBox, requires a later
kernel than the one you've been running. I guess things will break and upon
investigating the kernel version issue will come up in troubleshooting.

For major breakages of the core system I'd expect the devs would have spotted
it and highlighted it with a news item.


> > The eselect list you showed does not have a selected kernel source. What
> > is linked to /usr/src/linux on your system?
> >
> > $ ls -l /usr/src/
>
> It is properly linked considering the configuration:
>
> $ ll /usr/src/linux
> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 20 Nov 8 2019 /usr/src/linux ->
> linux-4.19.72-gentoo

Right, this particular kernel version is no longer in the tree. The two
versions closest to it are 'gentoo-sources-4.14.217' and 'gentoo-
sources-4.19.160'. Or you could shoot for the latest stable 5.4.92, which
works fine here, also on a host which runs VBox.

On 2/9/21 2:56 PM, Michael wrote:
> On Tuesday, 9 February 2021 13:25:01 GMT n952162 wrote:
>> On 2/9/21 12:57 PM, Michael wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, 9 February 2021 10:01:04 GMT n952162 wrote:
>>>> On 2/9/21 10:05 AM, Dale wrote:
>>>>> n952162 wrote:
>>>>>> Are extra administrative steps necessary when --sync brings in a new
>>>>>>
>>>>>> kernel, as in:
>>>>>> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Kernel/Upgrade
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I currently have this situation:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> $ uname -a
>>>>>> Linux host *4.19.72-gentoo* #7 SMP Tue Jun 9 19:51:52 CEST 2020 x86_64
>>>>>> GNU/Linux
>>>>>>
>>>>>> $ eselect kernel list
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Available kernel symlink targets:
>>>>>> [1] linux-5.4.72-gentoo
>>>>>> [2] linux-5.4.80-gentoo-r1
>>>>>> [3] linux-5.4.92-gentoo
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If an update requires additional steps, shouldn't that have appeared
>>>>>> in the news?
>>>>> It depends I think. I say think because there may be a binary kernel
>>>>> available which will upgrade itself. I seem to recall reading about it
>>>>> on a mailing list somewhere. I have no experience with it tho. That
>>>>> said, if you use the old method, you have to upgrade the kernel
>>>>> yourself. There are scripts you can use to help automate it a good bit
>>>>> but some of us still do it the manual way. When you do updates, emerge
>>>>> will pull in the new sources but the rest is up to you. I suspect most
>>>>> that do it the old way, copy .config over to the new kernel directory,
>>>>> run make oldconfig and answer the questions, compile the new kernel,
>>>>> copy it to /boot using the right method which there is a few of and then
>>>>> configure your bootloader if needed. The link you posted explains this
>>>>> in more detail, and may be more complete too.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm trying to remember what that binary kernel thing is called. I just
>>>>> skimmed the messages so it could be something else or not even in the
>>>>> tree yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dale
>>>>>
>>>>> :-) :-)
>>>> Ah, maybe I have a theory what's going on ... maybe there's no news that
>>>> it's time to upgrade the kernel, because it's not meant that the kernel
>>>> necessarily needs to be upgraded ... except that it seems that the
>>>> virtualbox-modules package might have a (unfortunate) dependency on
>>>> that...
>>> I'm not sure I understand completely why there should be a news item from
>>> portage whenever new kernel sources are updated and downloaded. It is up
>>> the system administrator to configure and build the new sources if
>>> desired.
>> gentoo policy is that administrators need to keep their systems
>> up-to-date. The promise is, if they do so, the dependency system will
>> be reliable.
>>
>> The kernel version is apparently an exception to this. The updating
>> mechanism does not require that this track the synchronization of the
>> portage tree. Administrators are free to decide what kernel they want
>> to use. This works - except for virtualbox-modules.
>>
>>> Each time you upgrade your kernel on the host, external modules will
>>> require updating/rebuilding. The set '@module-rebuild' does that instead
>>> of having to re-emerge manually each external module.
>> Yes, in another context, your tip about this helped me to solve a
>> separate problem with vbox. A quick survey didn't find mention of this
>> facility in the handbook. Perhaps I missed it.
> Yes, I just found it in the Handbook here:
>
> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/Kernel#Post-install.
> 2Fupgrade_tasks
>
>
> and in the wiki here:
>
> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Kernel/
> Upgrade#Reinstalling_external_kernel_modules
>

Okay, good.   Thank you.



> Or you could shoot for the latest stable 5.4.92, which
> works fine here, also on a host which runs VBox.


Yes, I'll do that.

On Tue, 9 Feb 2021 11:01:04 +0100, n952162 wrote:

> Ah, maybe I have a theory what's going on ... maybe there's no news that
> it's time to upgrade the kernel, because it's not meant that the kernel
> necessarily needs to be upgraded ... except that it seems that the
> virtualbox-modules package might have a (unfortunate) dependency on
> that...

gentoo-sources is not a kernel, it only installs the kernel sources. It
is up to you to configure, compile and install the kernel from the
sources. This is different from how Gentoo handles other packages. You
may have three sets of sources installed, but only one kernel.


--
Neil Bothwick

We all know what comes after 'X', said Tom, wisely.

On Tue, 9 Feb 2021 14:25:01 +0100, n952162 wrote:

> gentoo policy is that administrators need to keep their systems
> up-to-date.  The promise is, if they do so, the dependency system will
> be reliable.
>
> The kernel version is apparently an exception to this.  The updating
> mechanism does not require that this track the synchronization of the
> portage tree.  Administrators are free to decide what kernel they want
> to use.  This works - except for virtualbox-modules.

Portage should check that the kernel pointed to by the /usr/src/linux
symlink is of a suitable version and has the necessary configuration
settings. Lots of ebuilds already do this. If the virtualbox-modules
ebuild is failing in this respect, it may well be a bug.

> what is the most efficient way for an administrator to known when a new
> kernel is available and advisable?

You'll know because you'll see it in the list of packages to install when
upgrading. Additionally, there is an elog message when a new set of
kernel sources is installed, If you have

PORTAGE_ELOG_SYSTEM="save mail"
PORTAGE_ELOG_MAILURI="you@..."

in make.conf, you will be emailed this info. See man make.conf for more
on this.


--
Neil Bothwick

When companies ship Styrofoam, what do they pack it in?

On 2/9/21 3:55 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Tue, 9 Feb 2021 14:25:01 +0100, n952162 wrote:
>
>> gentoo policy is that administrators need to keep their systems
>> up-to-date.  The promise is, if they do so, the dependency system will
>> be reliable.
>>
>> The kernel version is apparently an exception to this.  The updating
>> mechanism does not require that this track the synchronization of the
>> portage tree.  Administrators are free to decide what kernel they want
>> to use.  This works - except for virtualbox-modules.
> Portage should check that the kernel pointed to by the /usr/src/linux
> symlink is of a suitable version and has the necessary configuration
> settings. Lots of ebuilds already do this. If the virtualbox-modules
> ebuild is failing in this respect, it may well be a bug.
>
>> what is the most efficient way for an administrator to known when a new
>> kernel is available and advisable?
> You'll know because you'll see it in the list of packages to install when
> upgrading. Additionally, there is an elog message when a new set of
> kernel sources is installed, If you have
>
> PORTAGE_ELOG_SYSTEM="save mail"
> PORTAGE_ELOG_MAILURI="you@..."
>
> in make.conf, you will be emailed this info. See man make.conf for more
> on this.
>
>

Excellent.  I'll use that.

On Tuesday, 9 February 2021 08:43:13 GMT n952162 wrote:
> Are extra administrative steps necessary when --sync brings in a new
> kernel, as in:
>
> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Kernel/Upgrade
>
> I currently have this situation:
>
> $ uname -a
> Linux host *4.19.72-gentoo* #7 SMP Tue Jun 9 19:51:52 CEST 2020 x86_64
> GNU/Linux
>
> $ eselect kernel list
> Available kernel symlink targets:
> [1] linux-5.4.72-gentoo
> [2] linux-5.4.80-gentoo-r1
> [3] linux-5.4.92-gentoo
>
> If an update requires additional steps, shouldn't that have appeared in
> the news?

It may help if I describe my approach to kernel upgrades.

This is an ~amd64 system, but I have 'sys-kernel/gentoo-sources -~amd64' in my
keywords file because I prefer to stick with stable kernel sources. I keep the
latest kernel plus the one that was latest until I upgraded.

When a new gentoo-sources comes in, I switch to it straight away, knowing that
it's been proved to be sound. I could use eselect to change the /usr/src/linux
symlink to the new kernel source tree, but instead I have 'sys-kernel/gentoo-
sources symlink' in /etc/portage/package.use/kernel, which has the same effect.
(This is for historical reasons.)

Then I cwd to /usr/src/linux, copy .config from the previous version and 'make
oldconfig'. Then I run this script [1]:

$ cat /usr/local/bin/kmake
#!/bin/bash
mount /boot
cd /usr/src/linux
time (make -j12 && make modules_install && make install &&\
/bin/ls -lh --color=auto /boot &&\
echo
) &&\
echo && echo "Rebuilding modules..." && echo &&\
emerge --jobs --load-average=48 @module-rebuild @x11-module-rebuild
echo && echo "Remaking microcode images..." && rm -f /boot/
early_ucode.cpio.new &&\
iucode_tool -S --write-earlyfw=/boot/early_ucode.cpio.new \
-tr /boot/early_ucode.cpio -tb /lib/firmware/intel-ucode &&\
mv -v /boot/early_ucode.cpio.new /boot/early_ucode.cpio &&\
echo

That takes care of anything that might otherwise break wnen the kernel is
upgraded. It picks up virtualbox-modules in passing, so you can forget about
it yourself.

HTH.

1. It's a very simple script, nothing like as clever as some others we see
here. :)

--
Regards,
Peter.