Mailing List Archive

New global USE flag: logrotate
Hi list,

Bug 97447 wants a logrotate USE flag, which is used by about five
packages locally. Unless there are any objections, I'll globalify it
later today.

Tom

--
Tom Martin, http://dev.gentoo.org/~slarti
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Gentoo Linux
Re: New global USE flag: logrotate [ In reply to ]
On Tuesday, August 02, 2005 2:22 am, Tom Martin wrote:
> Bug 97447 wants a logrotate USE flag, which is used by about five
> packages locally. Unless there are any objections, I'll globalify it
> later today.

I'd welcome this, almost as much as a global do_not_install_cron_tasks flag.


--
Anthony Gorecki
Ectro-Linux Foundation
Re: New global USE flag: logrotate [ In reply to ]
On Tue, 2005-08-02 at 10:22 +0100, Tom Martin wrote:
> Hi list,
>
> Bug 97447 wants a logrotate USE flag, which is used by about five
> packages locally. Unless there are any objections, I'll globalify it
> later today.

If you make the flag global, can you make sure that all of the packages
that use this flag exhibit the same behavior when using it. If they all
do their own thing, then I would suggest leaving it local.

Global USE flags are not so much a case of x number of packages use it,
but x number of package use it to mean the same thing.

--
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering - Strategic Lead/QA Manager
Games - Developer
Gentoo Linux
Re: New global USE flag: logrotate [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Aug 02, 2005 at 10:22:01AM +0100, Tom Martin wrote:
> Hi list,
>
> Bug 97447 wants a logrotate USE flag, which is used by about five
> packages locally. Unless there are any objections, I'll globalify it
> later today.
>

You may want to read over this thread from April when the logrotate USE flag
was last discussed. There were some interesting things brought up.

http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/27451

Tom

--
Tom Knight
tomk@gentoo.org
GPG Public Key: http://dev.gentoo.org/~tomk/tomk.asc
Re: New global USE flag: logrotate [ In reply to ]
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Tom Martin wrote:
| Hi list,
|
| Bug 97447 wants a logrotate USE flag, which is used by about five
| packages locally. Unless there are any objections, I'll globalify it
| later today.

I think this flag is a bad idea. Why should I have to recompile a
package to get some files that go in /etc? Either install them
unconditionally or don't install them at all.

Thanks,
Donnie
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gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: New global USE flag: logrotate [ In reply to ]
Donnie Berkholz wrote:

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> Tom Martin wrote:
> | Hi list,
> |
> | Bug 97447 wants a logrotate USE flag, which is used by about five
> | packages locally. Unless there are any objections, I'll globalify it
> | later today.
>
> I think this flag is a bad idea. Why should I have to recompile a
> package to get some files that go in /etc? Either install them
> unconditionally or don't install them at all.
>
> Thanks,
> Donnie

It seems like we have had this conversation before ;)
Install it unconditionally and if the user doesn't want it they can use
INSTALL_MASK to remove it from ${D} before it's merged to the livefs.

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Re: New global USE flag: logrotate [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Aug 02, 2005 at 08:17:08AM -0400, Chris Gianelloni <wolf31o2@gentoo.org> wrote:
> If you make the flag global, can you make sure that all of the packages
> that use this flag exhibit the same behavior when using it. If they all
> do their own thing, then I would suggest leaving it local.
>
> Global USE flags are not so much a case of x number of packages use it,
> but x number of package use it to mean the same thing.

I didn't realise that the flag was being used in more than one way --
how else is it being used?

Tom

--
Tom Martin, http://dev.gentoo.org/~slarti
AMD64, net-mail, shell-tools, vim, recruiters
Gentoo Linux
Re: New global USE flag: logrotate [ In reply to ]
On Tue, 2005-08-02 at 18:04 +0100, Tom Martin wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 02, 2005 at 08:17:08AM -0400, Chris Gianelloni <wolf31o2@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > If you make the flag global, can you make sure that all of the packages
> > that use this flag exhibit the same behavior when using it. If they all
> > do their own thing, then I would suggest leaving it local.
> >
> > Global USE flags are not so much a case of x number of packages use it,
> > but x number of package use it to mean the same thing.
>
> I didn't realise that the flag was being used in more than one way --
> how else is it being used?

I never said that it was... I just said to make sure to check... ;]

Of course, I agree with everyone else that this shouldn't be a USE flag,
at all. My personal opinion is that we install the logrotate.d files no
matter what, and users can INSTALL_MASK it if they don't want it. After
all, is the file installed by default upstream? If so, then why are we
hiding it behind a USE flag in the first place?

--
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering - Strategic Lead/QA Manager
Games - Developer
Gentoo Linux
Re: New global USE flag: logrotate [ In reply to ]
On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 09:48:25 -0700 Donnie Berkholz
<spyderous@gentoo.org> wrote:
| Tom Martin wrote:
| | Hi list,
| |
| | Bug 97447 wants a logrotate USE flag, which is used by about five
| | packages locally. Unless there are any objections, I'll globalify it
| | later today.
|
| I think this flag is a bad idea. Why should I have to recompile a
| package to get some files that go in /etc? Either install them
| unconditionally or don't install them at all.

Files in /etc are expensive in terms of sysadmin time. The only things
in /etc should be things that are both necessary and likely to be
modified by a sysadmin.

--
Ciaran McCreesh
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: New global USE flag: logrotate [ In reply to ]
Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 09:48:25 -0700 Donnie Berkholz
> <spyderous@gentoo.org> wrote:
> | Tom Martin wrote:
> | | Hi list,
> | |
> | | Bug 97447 wants a logrotate USE flag, which is used by about five
> | | packages locally. Unless there are any objections, I'll globalify it
> | | later today.
> |
> | I think this flag is a bad idea. Why should I have to recompile a
> | package to get some files that go in /etc? Either install them
> | unconditionally or don't install them at all.
>
> Files in /etc are expensive in terms of sysadmin time. The only things
> in /etc should be things that are both necessary and likely to be
> modified by a sysadmin.
>
And who makes that call, shouldn't the sysadmin decide what is necessary
in /etc and what is not? Why shouldn't portage just install stuff in
/etc and let the sysadmin figure out what needs to be there via
INSTALL_MASK?
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gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: New global USE flag: logrotate [ In reply to ]
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Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
| Files in /etc are expensive in terms of sysadmin time. The only things
| in /etc should be things that are both necessary and likely to be
| modified by a sysadmin.

So we should stop installing example files, too?
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Re: New global USE flag: logrotate [ In reply to ]
Donnie Berkholz wrote:

> Tom Martin wrote:
> | Hi list,
> |
> | Bug 97447 wants a logrotate USE flag, which is used by about five
> | packages locally. Unless there are any objections, I'll globalify it
> | later today.
>
> I think this flag is a bad idea. Why should I have to recompile a
> package to get some files that go in /etc? Either install them
> unconditionally or don't install them at all.
>
>
This useflag is useful in net-proxy/squid at least.
It also controls whether a cron script that use native squid log
rotation is installed or not. You cannot select your preferred rotation
mechanism (logrotate or cron job) through other way than useflags.
Re: New global USE flag: logrotate [ In reply to ]
On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 13:48:17 -0400 Alec Joseph Warner
<warnera6@egr.msu.edu> wrote:
| > Files in /etc are expensive in terms of sysadmin time. The only
| > things in /etc should be things that are both necessary and likely
| > to be modified by a sysadmin.
| >
| And who makes that call, shouldn't the sysadmin decide what is
| necessary in /etc and what is not?

Sure. The sysadmin makes the call via USE.

| Why shouldn't portage just install stuff in /etc and let the sysadmin
| figure out what needs to be there via INSTALL_MASK?

We already have a perfectly good mechanism for handling optional
components of packages. INSTALL_MASK isn't something that should be
encouraged -- it's not a 'safe' setting.

--
Ciaran McCreesh
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: New global USE flag: logrotate [ In reply to ]
On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 10:52:44 -0700 Donnie Berkholz
<spyderous@gentoo.org> wrote:
| Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
| | Files in /etc are expensive in terms of sysadmin time. The only
| | things in /etc should be things that are both necessary and likely
| | to be modified by a sysadmin.
|
| So we should stop installing example files, too?

Into /etc? Yes. Stick them in /usr/share/doc. If a package needs a file
in /etc, try to install a file which is generally suitable for most
people with the correct name.

It's Gentoo policy (yup, this is one of the few things we have 'real'
policy about) that packages should, where possible, work 'out of the
box'. We get this by installing a best attempt at a configuration file
into the correct location. Cluttering up a CONFIG_PROTECTed area with
bogus .example files merely makes more work for the end user.

--
Ciaran McCreesh
--
gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: New global USE flag: logrotate [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Aug 02, 2005 at 08:58:14PM +0300, Alin Nastac <mrness@gentoo.org> wrote:
> It also controls whether a cron script that use native squid log
> rotation is installed or not. You cannot select your preferred rotation
> mechanism (logrotate or cron job) through other way than useflags.

If it's being used like that there, I think I'll just stick to creating
another local flag. It's a pretty reasonable compromise, considering
some of the criticisms in this thread and the other.

Tom

--
Tom Martin, http://dev.gentoo.org/~slarti
AMD64, net-mail, shell-tools, vim, recruiters
Gentoo Linux