Mailing List Archive

On 7/6/22 11:29, Odhiambo Washington wrote:

> Out of curiosity, why do you need DSN for a mailing list?

One of the list owners asked for it.
Don't ask me why, I'm just running the exim.
Olaf


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On 06/07/2022 11:25, Olaf Hopp (SCC) via Exim-users wrote:
> On 7/6/22 11:29, Odhiambo Washington wrote:
>> Out of curiosity, why do you need DSN for a mailing list?
>
> One of the list owners asked for it.

One does wonder what value they see beyond traditional bounces.


We don't have a way of requesting DSN on the commandline.
Bug 2560 is open for this.

We also don't have a way in ACL, which feels like another
possibility.


Interested parties willing to develop code and testsuite cases
are always welcome.
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Jeremy

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On 6 Jul 2022, at 10:24, Olaf Hopp (SCC) via Exim-users <exim-users@exim.org> wrote:
> When DSN is switched off for a list sympa calls the exim with the args
> -oi -odi -oem -f test2-owner@test2.example.com -- my.name@example.com
> which runs fine. When DSN is enabled the args are
> -oi -odi -oem -N success,delay,failure -V00000031 -f bounce+my.name==a==example.com==test1==31@test2.example.com -- my.name@example.com
> which fails since "-N" means "This is a debugging option that inhibits delivery of a message at the transport level..."
>
> Is anybody using sympa with DSN enabled lists who can give a hint ?

Sympa wants Sendmail-compatible (and Postfix-compatible) DSN submission at the command line, which Exim can't support, so you must find or write a Sendmail-alike wrapper program or script that injects DSN-enabled messages via SMTP and configure Sympa to use it.

You have another problem, though. Sympa controls parallelism of submissions by using the -odi option. Tragically, Exim supports this just fine, but because it doesn’t support DSN submissions via the command line, and also doesn’t allow an SMTP listener daemon to use the -odi option (as Sendmail does), you’re powerless to perform synchronous deliveries of DSN-enabled messages, your best option being immediately queueing such messages and then running them from a queue with some limited number of (dynamically or pre-spawned) queue runners at some fixed low interval. (See main options remote_max_parallel and queue_run_max, and SMTP transport option serialize_hosts.) This comes at a regrettable cost to both latency and system load for polling for messages from the queue and starting enough runners to give good performance without abusing hosts. I humbly submit that Exim is really not the best choice in this (and similar “bulk mail”) situations, although if you want to, you can do it.

Cheers,
Sabahattin


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On 7 Jul 2022, at 18:19, Sabahattin Gucukoglu <listsebby@me.com> wrote:
> Sympa wants Sendmail-compatible (and Postfix-compatible) DSN submission at the command line, which Exim can't support, so you must find or write a Sendmail-alike wrapper program or script that injects DSN-enabled messages via SMTP and configure Sympa to use it.

Possibly even this one:
https://sympa-community.github.io/manual/customize/lmtp-delivery.html

It’s not been bundled since the time I last played around with Sympa, but I ought to have known better than to proceed with obsolete information and not do a courtesy Google. Sorry about that!

Cheers,
Sabahattin


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On 07/07/2022 18:19, Sabahattin Gucukoglu via Exim-users wrote:
> You have another problem, though. Sympa controls parallelism of submissions by using the -odi option.

Exim thinks it should be controlling that, being an MTA :)

and also doesn’t allow an SMTP listener daemon to use the -odi option (as Sendmail does), you’re powerless to perform synchronous deliveries of DSN-enabled messages

I'm unsure what the needs are, but if Sympa can talk SMTP rather than commandline
possibly Exim's cutthrough delivery does what you need.
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On 07/07/2022 18:19, Sabahattin Gucukoglu via Exim-users wrote:
> your best option being immediately queueing such messages and then running them from a queue with some limited number of (dynamically or pre-spawned) queue runners at some fixed low interval. (See main options remote_max_parallel and queue_run_max, and SMTP transport option serialize_hosts.) This comes at a regrettable cost to both latency and system load for polling for messages from the queue and starting enough runners to give good performance without abusing hosts

One other point: if your source does dump a lot into the queue in a short
time, best performance will be obtained using 2-phase queue runs (the -qq option).

Exim has always had configurable limits on queue-runner numbers; the standard
method of starting them at fixed intervals result, with a large queue, of
that maximum number being used. There are also per-destination-host limits
(to avoid "abusing hosts").

Futher, from 4.95 onwards, when -qq in used the required number of runners
will be started more quickly when the spool fill is high.
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Jeremy

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