Mailing List Archive

Am 26.05.21 um 10:55 schrieb Jeremy Harris via Exim-users:
> Hi All,
>
> We have used Freenode for an IRC channel (#exim) for many years.
> Recent developments are making me consider a move, possibly
> to irc.libera.chat (port 6697 for SSL; #exim).  The channel
> exists but I've not yet gotten it confirmed as representing
> the Exim project.
>
> If anyone wants to comment, please raise a hand.

Reminder: The Freenode Bridge to Matrix (#freenode_#exim:matrix.org )
must be established from LibraChat.


The next question is easy to guess.. why not switching to Matrix? It
would be the perfect moment.

As one already there, it's great :)

<advocating>
Matrix has some benefits:

It's easy to self host i.e. on exim.org. This way the channel will
persist as long as exim lives.
If the room is made public, anyone with a matrixaccount can join, no
additional setup required.
No trouble with NICKSERV anymore.

Matrix has a build in Rightsmanagement:

You can have private & secure group channels i.e. for devs & maintainers
only
Moderators for the public rooms.

In common clients, E2EC is implemented, which makes it pretty secure to
exchange security related informations about Exploits etc.

Matrix also supports exchange of media files, in case it's needed and
i.e. inside fedora sig mobility, we make use of it a lot. But i can
forsee that this is to limited use in an exim group ;)

Matrix offers a history of the channel, so you do not miss anything
important, if offline.

If you use a modern full featured client, Audio & Videocalls between
users are possible.

Adhoc videoconferencing is possible. This comes in very handy for dev
meetings.

Bridging to Signal, Skype, IRC, Telegram and others is possible.

</advocating>


--
## List details at https://lists.exim.org/mailman/listinfo/exim-users
## Exim details at http://www.exim.org/
## Please use the Wiki with this list - http://wiki.exim.org/

On 26/05/2021 10:46, Cyborg via Exim-users wrote:
> The next question is easy to guess.. why not switching to Matrix? It would be the perfect moment.

Against: admin effort is not free. I've seen no new volunteers
coming forward for Exim recently.
--
Cheers,
Jeremy

--
## List details at https://lists.exim.org/mailman/listinfo/exim-users
## Exim details at http://www.exim.org/
## Please use the Wiki with this list - http://wiki.exim.org/

On 26/5/21 6:55 pm, Jeremy Harris via Exim-users wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> We have used Freenode for an IRC channel (#exim) for many years.
> Recent developments are making me consider a move, possibly
> to irc.libera.chat (port 6697 for SSL; #exim).  The channel
> exists but I've not yet gotten it confirmed as representing
> the Exim project.
>
> If anyone wants to comment, please raise a hand.

Freenode hitting the news reminded me to get my IRC client out and
replace the auto-join with libera.chat.

It's only the first few days but it seems that quite a few projects have
already dumped freenode in favour of libera.chat.

It looks like the #exim channel has been registered, but that may have
been the network ops reserving all of the known namespaces to avoid spam
registrations.

The ops have been quite good at handing them off to the maintainers of
the projects upon request.

The water seems fine - come on in.



--
## List details at https://lists.exim.org/mailman/listinfo/exim-users
## Exim details at http://www.exim.org/
## Please use the Wiki with this list - http://wiki.exim.org/

On 2021-05-26 Jeremy Harris via Exim-users <exim-users@exim.org> wrote:
> Hi All,

> We have used Freenode for an IRC channel (#exim) for many years.
> Recent developments are making me consider a move, possibly
> to irc.libera.chat (port 6697 for SSL; #exim). The channel
> exists but I've not yet gotten it confirmed as representing
> the Exim project.

> If anyone wants to comment, please raise a hand.

Hello,

I would suggest moving, either to OFTC or to irc.libera.chat. I am not
using IRC anymore so I have no recent direct user experience but I
gather that Debian has been happy with OFTC since moving from freenode
ages ago. See e.g. https://diziet.dreamwidth.org/8514.html

cu Andreas

--
## List details at https://lists.exim.org/mailman/listinfo/exim-users
## Exim details at http://www.exim.org/
## Please use the Wiki with this list - http://wiki.exim.org/

Hi,

D?a Wed, 26 May 2021 09:55:50 +0100 Jeremy Harris via Exim-users
<exim-users@exim.org> napísal:

> We have used Freenode for an IRC channel (#exim) for many years.
> Recent developments are making me consider a move, possibly
> to irc.libera.chat (port 6697 for SSL; #exim). The channel
> exists but I've not yet gotten it confirmed as representing
> the Exim project.

Other channels, which i use/watch was moved to OFTC. I cannot comment
if it is better than libera. I only know, that OFTC doesn't support
SASL and one have to use identify command. No one was moved to libera
yet, thus i didn't try it.

Anyway, i will appreciate/support to move away from freenode, as its
situation in last time is at least suspicious.

regards

--
Slavko
http://slavino.sk

On 26/05/2021 09:55, Jeremy Harris via Exim-users wrote:
> Recent developments are making me consider a move,

The situation at Freenode appears to be escalating, with
admin actions there antagonising multiple projects.

The libera.chat #exim channel is now registered for
the Exim project. I'll be on there, and will cease
watching the Freenode channel if and when relevant
discussinon dies away. There are still more usernames
listed there than on libera.
--
Cheers,
Jeremy

--
## List details at https://lists.exim.org/mailman/listinfo/exim-users
## Exim details at http://www.exim.org/
## Please use the Wiki with this list - http://wiki.exim.org/

Jeremy Harris via Exim-users <exim-users@exim.org> (Do 27 Mai 2021 10:35:05 CEST):
> The libera.chat #exim channel is now registered for
> the Exim project. I'll be on there, and will cease
> watching the Freenode channel if and when relevant
> discussinon dies away. There are still more usernames
> listed there than on libera.

I'll place a hint on our exim.org website, about the #exim at
libera.chat.

--
Heiko

Am 26.05.21 um 10:55 schrieb Jeremy Harris via Exim-users:
>
> If anyone wants to comment, please raise a hand.

I shall ask you, the community, if you would adopt Matrix as an IRC
alternative.

You should know, that there was a bridge to Matrix already working in
the freenodesystem. it had some minor bugs, but all was mirrored from
irc to matrix.

It's possible to host this for the Exim Community, used to the sole
purpose of offering some public channels,
which can be visted by any Matrix Account on any homeserver out there in
the federation.

No other registration is needed, than your own matrix account somewhere
else.

The Exim team could/should have accounts on this server to use some
internal devs/security channels
and connect to each other easier. It's also possible to have distro-sec
channel there. No limits.

The service of the needed server/service would be free of charge (
sponsered ).

It would be a permanent home for Exim.

Alternative szenario:

The matrix service is hosted on the same server than the exim webpage (
gives cooler domainnames für the matrix accounts ;) ).


Advantages of a Matrix server:

- E2EE
- Audio/Video support via E2E-Peers.
- No need to hop between irc networks anymore
- no third party dependencys
- next to no administration effort, once the init setup is done.
- Rights management
- cryptostorage
- Groupchannel for Security, Distrosupport etc.

Community, please give your feedback for it.

best regards,
Marius



--
## List details at https://lists.exim.org/mailman/listinfo/exim-users
## Exim details at http://www.exim.org/
## Please use the Wiki with this list - http://wiki.exim.org/

Cyborg via Exim-users <exim-users@exim.org> (Do 27 Mai 2021 16:08:53 CEST):
> Am 26.05.21 um 10:55 schrieb Jeremy Harris via Exim-users:
> > If anyone wants to comment, please raise a hand.
>
> I shall ask you, the community, if you would adopt Matrix as an IRC
> alternative.

> You should know, that there was a bridge to Matrix already working in the
> freenodesystem. it had some minor bugs, but all was mirrored from irc to
> matrix.

For me this bridge was unidirectional only, it didn't send my Matrix
messages to IRC/freenode.

> It's possible to host this for the Exim Community, used to the sole purpose
> of offering some public channels,
> which can be visted by any Matrix Account on any homeserver out there in the
> federation.

*By any Matrix account* - I'm not sure if I'd want to register an
account for the sole purpose to get Exim help. IRC seems to be more open
here. But that's just *my* point of view. Matrix doesn't seem to be
widely established as a support channel yet, at least - again - from my
limited point of view.

> The Exim team could/should have accounts on this server to use some internal
> devs/security channels
> and connect to each other easier. It's also possible to have distro-sec
> channel there. No limits.

We have mailing lists. And for short ping-pong messages IRC just served
the purpose.

Please don't get me wrong - I do not vote against Matrix, but I do not
see a good reason to drop IRC. But - if we setup a Matrix server, I'd
use it and we can see if this gets more users than the #exim channel on
libera.chat.

Best regards from Dresden/Germany
Viele Grüße aus Dresden
Heiko Schlittermann
--
SCHLITTERMANN.de ---------------------------- internet & unix support -
Heiko Schlittermann, Dipl.-Ing. (TU) - {fon,fax}: +49.351.802998{1,3} -
gnupg encrypted messages are welcome --------------- key ID: F69376CE -

Am 27.05.21 um 21:23 schrieb Heiko Schlittermann via Exim-users:
>
>> You should know, that there was a bridge to Matrix already working in the
>> freenodesystem. it had some minor bugs, but all was mirrored from irc to
>> matrix.
> For me this bridge was unidirectional only, it didn't send my Matrix
> messages to IRC/freenode.

The bridge Fedora used did work "better", but differently. BTW, Fedora
moved over to Libera too, and announced it a few minutes ago.
> *By any Matrix account* - I'm not sure if I'd want to register an
> account for the sole purpose to get Exim help. IRC seems to be more open
> here. But that's just *my* point of view. Matrix doesn't seem to be
> widely established as a support channel yet, at least - again - from my
> limited point of view.

There is no reason, why a webclient should not be able to log into a
room as a guest with a random name.

>
> Please don't get me wrong - I do not vote against Matrix, but I do not
> see a good reason to drop IRC. But - if we setup a Matrix server, I'd
> use it and we can see if this gets more users than the #exim channel on
> libera.chat.
>
If you could see it throu my eyes, you wouldn't wait for it, you would
just do it :)

And now Community, your opinion is required.

If the final decision is to stay on libra, pls do not forget to use a
different type of irc bridge to matrix, so it works "better".

Best regards,
Marius

--
## List details at https://lists.exim.org/mailman/listinfo/exim-users
## Exim details at http://www.exim.org/
## Please use the Wiki with this list - http://wiki.exim.org/

Am 26.05.21 um 11:46 schrieb Cyborg via Exim-users:
> Am 26.05.21 um 10:55 schrieb Jeremy Harris via Exim-users:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> We have used Freenode for an IRC channel (#exim) for many years.
>> Recent developments are making me consider a move, possibly
>> to irc.libera.chat (port 6697 for SSL; #exim).  The channel
>> exists but I've not yet gotten it confirmed as representing
>> the Exim project.
>>
>> If anyone wants to comment, please raise a hand.
>
> Reminder: The Freenode Bridge to Matrix (#freenode_#exim:matrix.org )
> must be established from LibraChat.
>
>
> The next question is easy to guess.. why not switching to Matrix? It
> would be the perfect moment.
>
> As one already there, it's great :)


I've running my own matrix-server, and matrix is still under
development. We've discussed a lot about Matrix and XMPP. I also run my
own XMPP-Server (ejabberd).

And XMPP is a little bit more configuration-work, but it needs A LOT
less ressources, compared to matrix.

Have a look to snikket (https://snikket.org/). It is a
prosody-XMPP-Server, preconfigured and run in a docker. You only need to
configure a few DNS-Entries and open ports on firewall.

Snikket gives you a great Admin-Panel. You can register new accounts
with invitations, have an own application (based on conversations) for
android, and once registered, you can use your snikket-account as normal
xmpp-account. To chat 1:1 and in MUC (Multi-User-Chat... like Groupchat
or Chatrooms). Picture Up/Download, File-Transfer, Voice/Video-Calls and
Messages... all you need for a modern Messenger-System.

On Desktop Gajim oder Dino is your Choice. Even Webchats (JSCX Plugin
for Nextcloud, or ConverseJS, you can easily add to your Website) are
possible.

Matrix seems a big bloat... it's nice, and i use it also, But i prefer
XMPP.


Jakob

--
Die Email-Adresse <eisenbahn@volloeko.de> wird in absehbarer Zeit aufgelassen. Wenn sie weiterhin Interesse an einer Kommunikation mit mir haben, bitte ich sie, meine neuen Kontaktdaten bei mir zu erfragen.


--
## List details at https://lists.exim.org/mailman/listinfo/exim-users
## Exim details at http://www.exim.org/
## Please use the Wiki with this list - http://wiki.exim.org/

On 26/05/2021 09:55, Jeremy Harris via Exim-users wrote:
> We have used Freenode for an IRC channel (#exim) for many years.
> Recent developments are making me consider a move, possibly
> to irc.libera.chat (port 6697 for SSL; #exim).

I had thought that all had gone quiet... but things
changed again this morning:

https://www.devever.net/~hl/freenode_suicide

I'm giving up on freenode. I'll be regarding Libera.chat
as the main IRC for exim from now on.
--
Cheers,
Jeremy

--
## List details at https://lists.exim.org/mailman/listinfo/exim-users
## Exim details at http://www.exim.org/
## Please use the Wiki with this list - http://wiki.exim.org/