Mailing List Archive

Am 03.04.20 um 21:21 schrieb David in Denver:
> Do you have to start the imapd or other services, or do they start on
> their own?

nothing starts at it's own
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Am 03.04.20 um 21:21 schrieb David in Denver:
> Why isn't there an install script that downloads installs and configures
> postfix, postgresql and dbmail

because i don't touch postgresql but use dbmail for 11 years now?

if you have a running 2.x setup migratoion to 3.x can be done by a
trained monkey, if you are not capable to find the basics out you
shouldn't run a public mailserver to begin with


the dbmail (impa/pop3/lmtp) part is your smallest problem in context of
a public reachable mail service
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On Sat, Apr 4, 2020 at 6:28 AM Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
> Am 03.04.20 um 21:21 schrieb David in Denver:
> > Why isn't there an install script that downloads installs and configures
> > postfix, postgresql and dbmail

Wow. Entitled user strikes back. David in Denver ... you have
previously told us that you're:

1) competent, and
2) a long-time developer

When are you going to complete that install script that downloads
installs and configures postfix, postgresql and dbmail? I'm not sure
if you realize how long we've been waiting for you to step up.

Dan
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Am 03.04.20 um 23:06 schrieb Daniel Kasak:
> On Sat, Apr 4, 2020 at 6:28 AM Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
>> Am 03.04.20 um 21:21 schrieb David in Denver:
>>> Why isn't there an install script that downloads installs and configures
>>> postfix, postgresql and dbmail
>
> Wow. Entitled user strikes back. David in Denver ... you have
> previously told us that you're:
>
> 1) competent, and

yes

> 2) a long-time developer

no, i don't understand a single line of C/C++ code
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Dear David,

do your self a favor and run! Do not use DBMail!
Once the idea was great, but there has been no (visible) progress for years now! The community is dying and Harald's reaction to your request also suggests that there is no interest in attracting new people to the project.

Instead, I would recommend you to use e.g. plain Postfix or take a look at Mailcow ( http://mailcow.email ).

Cheers,
Claas


> Am 03.04.2020 um 21:21 schrieb David in Denver <incomex@hotmail.com>:
>
> Installing 3.2.3 on debian 9, postgres 9.6.17
>
> WHY WHY WHY! is the documentation STILL so incomplete? Why hasn't anyone put a COMPLETE minimum working example of master.cf, main.cf, sql-recipients.cf, sql-virtual_mailbox_domains.cf, sql-virtual_mailbox_maps.cf, and pg_hba.conf? I've looked and can't find anything for 3.2.3 -- oh, there's stuff out there that is outdated by a decade, but nothing current that I can find.
>
> Do you have to start the imapd or other services, or do they start on their own? what's the difference if I use ldap vs. sql as a driver? if I use pgsql as a hash to the postgres tables, does that mean I should use ldap as the hash instead? chroot default changed to yes from no, does that mean the smtp line needs to be changed or the dbmail-lmtp line at the end of master.cf?
>
> What's this 'compatability' line? set at 2? What does that mean, oh, look, no documentation. If I'm using old config files from version 2, should it be changed to something else?
>
> Why isn't there an install script that downloads installs and configures postfix, postgresql and dbmail (or other combinations)? Millions of man-hours to write awesome software, loads of documentation, and as nebulous and unusable as ever. This is the reason people don't want to migrate away from Microsuck operating systems.
>
> RE: 3.2.3/INSTALL, part 2. ..."Edit the dbmail.conf file and set everything to your likings." What? what does that mean? Why not provide a MWE of what dbmail.conf should look like and explain anything that shouldn't be left default.
>
> In my case, I can't insert users using dbmail-users; and you don't have any troubleshooting FAQs on your website or on the Install docs. Maybe, because of my frustration over this, I've missed something, but I've spent 3 whole days on this ONE issue. Someone (group) really needs to work on an install script.
>
> I need to be put back on the mail server.
> _______________________________________________
> DBmail mailing list
> DBmail@lists.nfg.nl <mailto:DBmail@lists.nfg.nl>
> https://lists.nfg.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dbmail <https://lists.nfg.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dbmail>

Am 05.04.20 um 13:53 schrieb Claas Kähler:
> Dear David,
>
> do your self a favor and run! Do not use DBMail! 
> Once the idea was great, but there has been no (visible) progress for
> years now!

which is one of the biggest problems

> The community is dying and Harald's reaction to your request
> also suggests that there is no interest in attracting new people to the
> project.

for now at least not users without basic knowledge

> Instead, I would recommend you to use e.g. plain Postfix

this is nonsense

postfix is a MTA and has *ntohing* in common with dbmail, it's *part* a
dbmail setup to make it a full mailserver

>> Am 03.04.2020 um 21:21 schrieb David in Denver <incomex@hotmail.com
>> <mailto:incomex@hotmail.com>>:
>>
>> Installing 3.2.3 on debian 9, postgres 9.6.17
>>
>> WHY WHY WHY! is the documentation STILL so incomplete?  Why hasn't
>> anyone put a COMPLETE minimum working example of master.cf, main.cf,
>> sql-recipients.cf, sql-virtual_mailbox_domains.cf,
>> sql-virtual_mailbox_maps.cf, and pg_hba.conf?  I've looked and can't
>> find anything for 3.2.3 -- oh, there's stuff out there that is
>> outdated by a decade, but nothing current that I can find.
>>
>> Do you have to start the imapd or other services, or do they start on
>> their own? what's the difference if I use ldap vs. sql as a driver?
>>  if I use pgsql as a hash to the postgres tables, does that mean I
>> should use ldap as the hash instead?  chroot default changed to yes
>> from no, does that mean the smtp line needs to be changed or the
>> dbmail-lmtp line at the end of master.cf?
>>
>> What's this 'compatability' line?  set at 2? What does that mean, oh,
>> look, no documentation.  If I'm using old config files from version 2,
>> should it be changed to something else?
>>
>> Why isn't there an install script that downloads installs and
>> configures postfix, postgresql and dbmail (or other combinations)?
>>  Millions of man-hours to write awesome software, loads of
>> documentation, and as nebulous and unusable as ever.  This is the
>> reason people don't want to migrate away from Microsuck operating systems.
>>
>> RE: 3.2.3/INSTALL, part 2.  ..."Edit the dbmail.conf file and set
>> everything to your likings."  What? what does that mean?  Why not
>> provide a MWE of what dbmail.conf should look like and explain
>> anything that shouldn't be left default.
>>
>> In my case, I can't insert users using dbmail-users; and you don't
>> have any troubleshooting FAQs on your website or on the Install docs.
>>  Maybe, because of my frustration over this, I've missed something,
>> but I've spent 3 whole days on this ONE issue.  Someone (group) really
>> needs to work on an install script.
>>
>> I need to be put back on the mail server.

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yep, I've already gone to postfix, postgres and dovecot, and I'll go look at mailcow. tx.

________________________________
From: DBmail <dbmail-bounces@lists.nfg.nl> on behalf of Claas K?hler <claaskaehler@yfx.de>
Sent: Sunday, April 5, 2020 5:53 AM
To: DBMail mailinglist <dbmail@lists.nfg.nl>
Subject: Re: [Dbmail] dbmail configuration

Dear David,

do your self a favor and run! Do not use DBMail!
Once the idea was great, but there has been no (visible) progress for years now! The community is dying and Harald's reaction to your request also suggests that there is no interest in attracting new people to the project.

Instead, I would recommend you to use e.g. plain Postfix or take a look at Mailcow ( http://mailcow.email ).

Cheers,
Claas


Am 03.04.2020 um 21:21 schrieb David in Denver <incomex@hotmail.com<mailto:incomex@hotmail.com>>:

Installing 3.2.3 on debian 9, postgres 9.6.17

WHY WHY WHY! is the documentation STILL so incomplete? Why hasn't anyone put a COMPLETE minimum working example of master.cf, main.cf, sql-recipients.cf, sql-virtual_mailbox_domains.cf, sql-virtual_mailbox_maps.cf, and pg_hba.conf? I've looked and can't find anything for 3.2.3 -- oh, there's stuff out there that is outdated by a decade, but nothing current that I can find.

Do you have to start the imapd or other services, or do they start on their own? what's the difference if I use ldap vs. sql as a driver? if I use pgsql as a hash to the postgres tables, does that mean I should use ldap as the hash instead? chroot default changed to yes from no, does that mean the smtp line needs to be changed or the dbmail-lmtp line at the end of master.cf?

What's this 'compatability' line? set at 2? What does that mean, oh, look, no documentation. If I'm using old config files from version 2, should it be changed to something else?

Why isn't there an install script that downloads installs and configures postfix, postgresql and dbmail (or other combinations)? Millions of man-hours to write awesome software, loads of documentation, and as nebulous and unusable as ever. This is the reason people don't want to migrate away from Microsuck operating systems.

RE: 3.2.3/INSTALL, part 2. ..."Edit the dbmail.conf file and set everything to your likings." What? what does that mean? Why not provide a MWE of what dbmail.conf should look like and explain anything that shouldn't be left default.

In my case, I can't insert users using dbmail-users; and you don't have any troubleshooting FAQs on your website or on the Install docs. Maybe, because of my frustration over this, I've missed something, but I've spent 3 whole days on this ONE issue. Someone (group) really needs to work on an install script.

I need to be put back on the mail server.
_______________________________________________
DBmail mailing list
DBmail@lists.nfg.nl<mailto:DBmail@lists.nfg.nl>
https://lists.nfg.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dbmail

It was good whilst it lasted, it fairs well for a small setup but that can soon spiral into a large install so If it helps anyone moving to dovecot, a few years back I produced a patch for dbmail-export to output into maildir++ format mbox's along with a subscriptions file (this works fine for dovecot 2.2 as opposed to 2.3 where the inbox namespace has changed slightly). Unfortunately, the patch remains open and uncommitted on github but you're welcome to use the rough code on export.c:-

https://github.com/pjstevns/dbmail/pull/43/commits/4a0909a02b220f3e16fbc66efa03d7554ecde3a5?diff=split&w=1

This helped us to eventually move several thousand mailboxes.

Regards

James Greig
From: DBmail <dbmail-bounces@lists.nfg.nl> On Behalf Of David in Denver
Sent: 03 April 2020 20:22
To: dbmail@dbmail.org
Subject: [Dbmail] dbmail configuration

Installing 3.2.3 on debian 9, postgres 9.6.17

WHY WHY WHY! is the documentation STILL so incomplete? Why hasn't anyone put a COMPLETE minimum working example of master.cf, main.cf, sql-recipients.cf, sql-virtual_mailbox_domains.cf, sql-virtual_mailbox_maps.cf, and pg_hba.conf? I've looked and can't find anything for 3.2.3 -- oh, there's stuff out there that is outdated by a decade, but nothing current that I can find.

Do you have to start the imapd or other services, or do they start on their own? what's the difference if I use ldap vs. sql as a driver? if I use pgsql as a hash to the postgres tables, does that mean I should use ldap as the hash instead? chroot default changed to yes from no, does that mean the smtp line needs to be changed or the dbmail-lmtp line at the end of master.cf?

What's this 'compatability' line? set at 2? What does that mean, oh, look, no documentation. If I'm using old config files from version 2, should it be changed to something else?

Why isn't there an install script that downloads installs and configures postfix, postgresql and dbmail (or other combinations)? Millions of man-hours to write awesome software, loads of documentation, and as nebulous and unusable as ever. This is the reason people don't want to migrate away from Microsuck operating systems.

RE: 3.2.3/INSTALL, part 2. ..."Edit the dbmail.conf file and set everything to your likings." What? what does that mean? Why not provide a MWE of what dbmail.conf should look like and explain anything that shouldn't be left default.

In my case, I can't insert users using dbmail-users; and you don't have any troubleshooting FAQs on your website or on the Install docs. Maybe, because of my frustration over this, I've missed something, but I've spent 3 whole days on this ONE issue. Someone (group) really needs to work on an install script.

I need to be put back on the mail server.

It was good whilst it lasted, it fairs well for a small setup but that can soon spiral into a large install so If it helps anyone moving to dovecot, a few years back I produced a patch for dbmail-export to output into maildir++ format mbox's along with a subscriptions file (this works fine for dovecot 2.2 as opposed to 2.3 where the inbox namespace has changed slightly). Unfortunately, the patch remains open and uncommitted on github but you're welcome to use the rough code on export.c:-

https://github.com/pjstevns/dbmail/pull/43/commits/4a0909a02b220f3e16fbc66efa03d7554ecde3a5?diff=split&w=1

This helped us to eventually move several thousand mailboxes.

Regards

James Greig
From: DBmail <dbmail-bounces@lists.nfg.nl> On Behalf Of David in Denver
Sent: 03 April 2020 20:22
To: dbmail@dbmail.org
Subject: [Dbmail] dbmail configuration

Installing 3.2.3 on debian 9, postgres 9.6.17

WHY WHY WHY! is the documentation STILL so incomplete? Why hasn't anyone put a COMPLETE minimum working example of master.cf, main.cf, sql-recipients.cf, sql-virtual_mailbox_domains.cf, sql-virtual_mailbox_maps.cf, and pg_hba.conf? I've looked and can't find anything for 3.2.3 -- oh, there's stuff out there that is outdated by a decade, but nothing current that I can find.

Do you have to start the imapd or other services, or do they start on their own? what's the difference if I use ldap vs. sql as a driver? if I use pgsql as a hash to the postgres tables, does that mean I should use ldap as the hash instead? chroot default changed to yes from no, does that mean the smtp line needs to be changed or the dbmail-lmtp line at the end of master.cf?

What's this 'compatability' line? set at 2? What does that mean, oh, look, no documentation. If I'm using old config files from version 2, should it be changed to something else?

Why isn't there an install script that downloads installs and configures postfix, postgresql and dbmail (or other combinations)? Millions of man-hours to write awesome software, loads of documentation, and as nebulous and unusable as ever. This is the reason people don't want to migrate away from Microsuck operating systems.

RE: 3.2.3/INSTALL, part 2. ..."Edit the dbmail.conf file and set everything to your likings." What? what does that mean? Why not provide a MWE of what dbmail.conf should look like and explain anything that shouldn't be left default.

In my case, I can't insert users using dbmail-users; and you don't have any troubleshooting FAQs on your website or on the Install docs. Maybe, because of my frustration over this, I've missed something, but I've spent 3 whole days on this ONE issue. Someone (group) really needs to work on an install script.

I need to be put back on the mail server.

Yeah I know what you mean .. I am still running 2 dbamil servers.. but
on one i have the problem that some users have a lot of folders .. and
the code to fetch the folder list on DBmail is horribly inefficient
(should really be done as stored procedures or soemthing )

Unfortunately I am lacking the time to fix/imporve it ..

With a server move imminent I am really not sure if i should/can keep
using dbmail or rather give up (For now at least) and use courier-imap
or dovecot as well .. :(

On 2020-04-06 00:32, James Greig wrote:

> It was good whilst it lasted, it fairs well for a small setup but that can soon spiral into a large install so If it helps anyone moving to dovecot, a few years back I produced a patch for dbmail-export to output into maildir++ format mbox's along with a subscriptions file (this works fine for dovecot 2.2 as opposed to 2.3 where the inbox namespace has changed slightly). Unfortunately, the patch remains open and uncommitted on github but you're welcome to use the rough code on export.c:-
>
> https://github.com/pjstevns/dbmail/pull/43/commits/4a0909a02b220f3e16fbc66efa03d7554ecde3a5?diff=split&w=1 [1]
>
> This helped us to eventually move several thousand mailboxes.
>
> Regards
>
> James Greig
>
> FROM: DBmail <dbmail-bounces@lists.nfg.nl> ON BEHALF OF David in Denver
> SENT: 03 April 2020 20:22
> TO: dbmail@dbmail.org
> SUBJECT: [Dbmail] dbmail configuration
>
> Installing 3.2.3 on debian 9, postgres 9.6.17
>
> WHY WHY WHY! is the documentation STILL so incomplete? Why hasn't anyone put a COMPLETE minimum working example of master.cf, main.cf, sql-recipients.cf, sql-virtual_mailbox_domains.cf, sql-virtual_mailbox_maps.cf, and pg_hba.conf? I've looked and can't find anything for 3.2.3 -- oh, there's stuff out there that is outdated by a decade, but nothing current that I can find.
>
> Do you have to start the imapd or other services, or do they start on their own? what's the difference if I use ldap vs. sql as a driver? if I use pgsql as a hash to the postgres tables, does that mean I should use ldap as the hash instead? chroot default changed to yes from no, does that mean the smtp line needs to be changed or the dbmail-lmtp line at the end of master.cf?
>
> What's this 'compatability' line? set at 2? What does that mean, oh, look, no documentation. If I'm using old config files from version 2, should it be changed to something else?
>
> Why isn't there an install script that downloads installs and configures postfix, postgresql and dbmail (or other combinations)? Millions of man-hours to write awesome software, loads of documentation, and as nebulous and unusable as ever. This is the reason people don't want to migrate away from Microsuck operating systems.
>
> RE: 3.2.3/INSTALL, part 2. ..."Edit the dbmail.conf file and set everything to your likings." What? what does that mean? Why not provide a MWE of what dbmail.conf should look like and explain anything that shouldn't be left default.
>
> In my case, I can't insert users using dbmail-users; and you don't have any troubleshooting FAQs on your website or on the Install docs. Maybe, because of my frustration over this, I've missed something, but I've spent 3 whole days on this ONE issue. Someone (group) really needs to work on an install script.
>
> I need to be put back on the mail server.
> _______________________________________________
> DBmail mailing list
> DBmail@lists.nfg.nl
> https://lists.nfg.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dbmail



Links:
------
[1]
https://github.com/pjstevns/dbmail/pull/43/commits/4a0909a02b220f3e16fbc66efa03d7554ecde3a5?diff=split&amp;w=1

Am 06.04.20 um 08:06 schrieb Thomas Raschbacher:
> Yeah I know what you mean .. I am still running 2 dbamil servers.. but
> on one i have the problem that some users have a lot of folders .. and
> the code to fetch the folder list on DBmail is horribly inefficient
> (should really be done as stored procedures or soemthing )
>
> Unfortunately I am lacking the time to fix/imporve it ..
>
> With a server move imminent I am really not sure if i should/can keep
> using dbmail or rather give up (For now at least) and use courier-imap
> or dovecot as well .. :(

if you can that esaily.... and the uqaliuty of dovecot is also shitty, i
know one which swicthed, just other rpoblems and never update short
after a release

i have implemented 6000 lines of code for backends, automation and
infrastructure integration back in 2009 and spent hundrest of ours to
get the fucking 3.0 and 3.1 versions debugged and then upstream
disappears from one day to another

> On 2020-04-06 00:32, James Greig wrote:
>
>> It was good whilst it lasted, it fairs well for a small setup but that
>> can soon spiral into a large install so If it helps anyone moving to
>> dovecot, a few years back I produced a patch for dbmail-export to
>> output into maildir++ format mbox’s along with a subscriptions file
>> (this works fine for dovecot 2.2 as opposed to 2.3 where the inbox
>> namespace has changed slightly).  Unfortunately, the patch remains
>> open and uncommitted on github but you’re welcome to use the rough
>> code on export.c:-
>>
>>  
>>
>> https://github.com/pjstevns/dbmail/pull/43/commits/4a0909a02b220f3e16fbc66efa03d7554ecde3a5?diff=split&w=1
>>
>>  
>>
>> This helped us to eventually move several thousand mailboxes.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Regards
>>
>>  
>>
>> James Greig
>>
>> *From:*DBmail <dbmail-bounces@lists.nfg.nl> *On Behalf Of *David in Denver
>> *Sent:* 03 April 2020 20:22
>> *To:* dbmail@dbmail.org
>> *Subject:* [Dbmail] dbmail configuration
>>
>>  
>>
>> Installing 3.2.3 on debian 9, postgres 9.6.17
>>
>>  
>>
>> WHY WHY WHY! is the documentation STILL so incomplete?  Why hasn't
>> anyone put a COMPLETE minimum working example of master.cf, main.cf,
>> sql-recipients.cf, sql-virtual_mailbox_domains.cf,
>> sql-virtual_mailbox_maps.cf, and pg_hba.conf?  I've looked and can't
>> find anything for 3.2.3 -- oh, there's stuff out there that is
>> outdated by a decade, but nothing current that I can find.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Do you have to start the imapd or other services, or do they start on
>> their own? what's the difference if I use ldap vs. sql as a driver?
>>  if I use pgsql as a hash to the postgres tables, does that mean I
>> should use ldap as the hash instead?  chroot default changed to yes
>> from no, does that mean the smtp line needs to be changed or the
>> dbmail-lmtp line at the end of master.cf?
>>
>>  
>>
>> What's this 'compatability' line?  set at 2? What does that mean, oh,
>> look, no documentation.  If I'm using old config files from version 2,
>> should it be changed to something else?
>>
>>  
>>
>> Why isn't there an install script that downloads installs and
>> configures postfix, postgresql and dbmail (or other combinations)?
>>  Millions of man-hours to write awesome software, loads of
>> documentation, and as nebulous and unusable as ever.  This is the
>> reason people don't want to migrate away from Microsuck operating systems.
>>
>>  
>>
>> RE: 3.2.3/INSTALL, part 2.  ..."Edit the dbmail.conf file and set
>> everything to your likings."  What? what does that mean?  Why not
>> provide a MWE of what dbmail.conf should look like and explain
>> anything that shouldn't be left default.
>>
>>  
>>
>> In my case, I can't insert users using dbmail-users; and you don't
>> have any troubleshooting FAQs on your website or on the Install docs.
>>  Maybe, because of my frustration over this, I've missed something,
>> but I've spent 3 whole days on this ONE issue.  Someone (group) really
>> needs to work on an install script.
>>
>>  
>>
>> I need to be put back on the mail server.

_______________________________________________
DBmail mailing list
DBmail@lists.nfg.nl
https://lists.nfg.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dbmail

> if you can that esaily.... and the uqaliuty of dovecot is also shitty, i
> know one which swicthed, just other rpoblems and never update short
> after a release
>
> i have implemented 6000 lines of code for backends, automation and
> infrastructure integration back in 2009 and spent hundrest of ours to
> get the fucking 3.0 and 3.1 versions debugged and then upstream
> disappears from one day to another

I understand that people are very upset but by now everyone should realize that Paul has dropped the project and moved on. Dbmail came free and is open source so be happy while it lasted and be grateful to Paul, he made an awesome product!

So whilst the move to GitHub was brilliant its just one of the projects which is hard to maintain, as IMAP, LMTP, etc. are not easy to understand protocols so it never got much traction there and to be honest there are surely not so many C-savvy people out there these days as well as the few pull request that came in didn’t get merged and there wasn’t a successful fork.

Also since there are alternatives out there that work really well, I used courier for many years now and moved to dovecot later on, well, there is not much demand for dbmail and if Paul doesn’t make a grand return, lets face it: dbmail won’t progress.

So, I also spent a great deal of time with dbmail setups and I even wrote a whole webmail application for it, which specifically blew away roundcube and others because it could fetch data directly from the database layer, but well, thats the past lets move on.

Cheers,
Daniel
_______________________________________________
DBmail mailing list
DBmail@lists.nfg.nl
https://lists.nfg.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dbmail

You all realise there are a lot of commit coming in on GitHub, right?

https://github.com/dbmail/dbmail/commits/master

---

Andrea Brancatelli

On 2020-04-06 10:25, Daniel Urstöger wrote:

>> if you can that esaily.... and the uqaliuty of dovecot is also shitty, i
>> know one which swicthed, just other rpoblems and never update short
>> after a release
>>
>> i have implemented 6000 lines of code for backends, automation and
>> infrastructure integration back in 2009 and spent hundrest of ours to
>> get the fucking 3.0 and 3.1 versions debugged and then upstream
>> disappears from one day to another
>
> I understand that people are very upset but by now everyone should realize that Paul has dropped the project and moved on. Dbmail came free and is open source so be happy while it lasted and be grateful to Paul, he made an awesome product!
>
> So whilst the move to GitHub was brilliant its just one of the projects which is hard to maintain, as IMAP, LMTP, etc. are not easy to understand protocols so it never got much traction there and to be honest there are surely not so many C-savvy people out there these days as well as the few pull request that came in didn't get merged and there wasn't a successful fork.
>
> Also since there are alternatives out there that work really well, I used courier for many years now and moved to dovecot later on, well, there is not much demand for dbmail and if Paul doesn't make a grand return, lets face it: dbmail won't progress.
>
> So, I also spent a great deal of time with dbmail setups and I even wrote a whole webmail application for it, which specifically blew away roundcube and others because it could fetch data directly from the database layer, but well, thats the past lets move on.
>
> Cheers,
> Daniel
> _______________________________________________
> DBmail mailing list
> DBmail@lists.nfg.nl
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Am 06.04.20 um 10:38 schrieb Andrea Brancatelli:
> You all realise there are a lot of commit coming in on GitHub, right?
>
> https://github.com/dbmail/dbmail/commits/master

if nobody manages releases tha don't help much

given my expierience back when upgrade to 3.0 and especially 3.1 that#s
the reason that i even don't consider update to 3.2

in both cases 3ö0 and 3.1 we had massive issues like completly empty
mails with pop3, all sort of broken mails over imap depending on the
mail body at reconstruction and it#s even unclear if all the bugfix fopr
latest 3.1 made it to github

when i face similar issues as with the latest point update swith a non
existent upstream making quick bugfiox releases i can commit suicide

> On 2020-04-06 10:25, Daniel Urstöger wrote:
>
>>> if you can that esaily.... and the uqaliuty of dovecot is also shitty, i
>>> know one which swicthed, just other rpoblems and never update short
>>> after a release
>>>
>>> i have implemented 6000 lines of code for backends, automation and
>>> infrastructure integration back in 2009 and spent hundrest of ours to
>>> get the fucking 3.0 and 3.1 versions debugged and then upstream
>>> disappears from one day to another
>>
>> I understand that people are very upset but by now everyone should
>> realize that Paul has dropped the project and moved on. Dbmail came
>> free and is open source so be happy while it lasted and be grateful to
>> Paul, he made an awesome product!
>>
>> So whilst the move to GitHub was brilliant its just one of the
>> projects which is hard to maintain, as IMAP, LMTP, etc. are not easy
>> to understand protocols so it never got much traction there and to be
>> honest there are surely not so many C-savvy  people out there these
>> days as well as the few pull request that came in didn't get merged
>> and there wasn't a successful fork.
>>
>> Also since there are alternatives out there that work really well, I
>> used courier for many years now and moved to dovecot later on, well,
>> there is not much demand for dbmail and if Paul doesn't make a grand
>> return, lets face it: dbmail won't progress.
>>
>> So, I also spent a great deal of time with dbmail setups and I even
>> wrote a whole webmail application for it, which specifically blew away
>> roundcube and others because it could fetch data directly from the
>> database layer, but well, thats the past lets move on.
_______________________________________________
DBmail mailing list
DBmail@lists.nfg.nl
https://lists.nfg.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dbmail

There are no upgrade for the SQL base coming in, so you'll be able go
just upgrade the software without any issue.

Of course it has to be tested a while before switching it in production,
but as you can easily see all the commits are basically bug fixs.

---

Andrea Brancatelli

On 2020-04-06 10:42, Reindl Harald wrote:

> Am 06.04.20 um 10:38 schrieb Andrea Brancatelli:
>
>> You all realise there are a lot of commit coming in on GitHub, right?
>>
>> https://github.com/dbmail/dbmail/commits/master
>
> if nobody manages releases tha don't help much
>
> given my expierience back when upgrade to 3.0 and especially 3.1 that#s
> the reason that i even don't consider update to 3.2
>
> in both cases 3ö0 and 3.1 we had massive issues like completly empty
> mails with pop3, all sort of broken mails over imap depending on the
> mail body at reconstruction and it#s even unclear if all the bugfix fopr
> latest 3.1 made it to github
>
> when i face similar issues as with the latest point update swith a non
> existent upstream making quick bugfiox releases i can commit suicide
>
> On 2020-04-06 10:25, Daniel Urstöger wrote:
>
> if you can that esaily.... and the uqaliuty of dovecot is also shitty, i
> know one which swicthed, just other rpoblems and never update short
> after a release
>
> i have implemented 6000 lines of code for backends, automation and
> infrastructure integration back in 2009 and spent hundrest of ours to
> get the fucking 3.0 and 3.1 versions debugged and then upstream
> disappears from one day to another
> I understand that people are very upset but by now everyone should
> realize that Paul has dropped the project and moved on. Dbmail came
> free and is open source so be happy while it lasted and be grateful to
> Paul, he made an awesome product!
>
> So whilst the move to GitHub was brilliant its just one of the
> projects which is hard to maintain, as IMAP, LMTP, etc. are not easy
> to understand protocols so it never got much traction there and to be
> honest there are surely not so many C-savvy people out there these
> days as well as the few pull request that came in didn't get merged
> and there wasn't a successful fork.
>
> Also since there are alternatives out there that work really well, I
> used courier for many years now and moved to dovecot later on, well,
> there is not much demand for dbmail and if Paul doesn't make a grand
> return, lets face it: dbmail won't progress.
>
> So, I also spent a great deal of time with dbmail setups and I even
> wrote a whole webmail application for it, which specifically blew away
> roundcube and others because it could fetch data directly from the
> database layer, but well, thats the past lets move on.
_______________________________________________
DBmail mailing list
DBmail@lists.nfg.nl
https://lists.nfg.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dbmail

Am 06.04.20 um 10:44 schrieb Andrea Brancatelli:
> There are no upgrade for the SQL base coming in, so you'll be able go
> just upgrade the software without any issue.

this is simply not true at all

there is some sequence colum added and i can't find my mail from years
ago how to handle it in my admin backend which has capabilities to move
messages from the admin backends between folders and even users

otherwise clients will go out of sync

>> Am 06.04.20 um 10:38 schrieb Andrea Brancatelli:
>>> You all realise there are a lot of commit coming in on GitHub, right?
>>>
>>> https://github.com/dbmail/dbmail/commits/master
>>
>> if nobody manages releases tha don't help much
>>
>> given my expierience back when upgrade to 3.0 and especially 3.1 that#s
>> the reason that i even don't consider update to 3.2
>>
>> in both cases 3ö0 and 3.1 we had massive issues like completly empty
>> mails with pop3, all sort of broken mails over imap depending on the
>> mail body at reconstruction and it#s even unclear if all the bugfix fopr
>> latest 3.1 made it to github
>>
>> when i face similar issues as with the latest point update swith a non
>> existent upstream making quick bugfiox releases i can commit suicide
>>
>>> On 2020-04-06 10:25, Daniel Urstöger wrote:
>>>
>>>>> if you can that esaily.... and the uqaliuty of dovecot is also
>>>>> shitty, i
>>>>> know one which swicthed, just other rpoblems and never update short
>>>>> after a release
>>>>>
>>>>> i have implemented 6000 lines of code for backends, automation and
>>>>> infrastructure integration back in 2009 and spent hundrest of ours to
>>>>> get the fucking 3.0 and 3.1 versions debugged and then upstream
>>>>> disappears from one day to another
>>>>
>>>> I understand that people are very upset but by now everyone should
>>>> realize that Paul has dropped the project and moved on. Dbmail came
>>>> free and is open source so be happy while it lasted and be grateful to
>>>> Paul, he made an awesome product!
>>>>
>>>> So whilst the move to GitHub was brilliant its just one of the
>>>> projects which is hard to maintain, as IMAP, LMTP, etc. are not easy
>>>> to understand protocols so it never got much traction there and to be
>>>> honest there are surely not so many C-savvy  people out there these
>>>> days as well as the few pull request that came in didn't get merged
>>>> and there wasn't a successful fork.
>>>>
>>>> Also since there are alternatives out there that work really well, I
>>>> used courier for many years now and moved to dovecot later on, well,
>>>> there is not much demand for dbmail and if Paul doesn't make a grand
>>>> return, lets face it: dbmail won't progress.
>>>>
>>>> So, I also spent a great deal of time with dbmail setups and I even
>>>> wrote a whole webmail application for it, which specifically blew away
>>>> roundcube and others because it could fetch data directly from the
>>>> database layer, but well, thats the past lets move on.
_______________________________________________
DBmail mailing list
DBmail@lists.nfg.nl
https://lists.nfg.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dbmail

I'm talking about latest commits, not about 3.0 to 3.1

BTW I did all the transitions from 2.4 to 3.0 to 3.1 quite smoothly so I
don't exactly get all your stress about this topic.

And, like you do, in our company we have a lot of custom code relying on
the SQL base os dbmail so I understand the cost of dealing with the SQL
base changing. Yet again in our pro/cons valuations, it's cheaper to
adapt our software to the evolutions than to adopt a new mail server.

Do your balances and act accordingly.

---

Andrea Brancatelli

On 2020-04-06 10:52, Reindl Harald wrote:

> Am 06.04.20 um 10:44 schrieb Andrea Brancatelli:
>
>> There are no upgrade for the SQL base coming in, so you'll be able go
>> just upgrade the software without any issue.
>
> this is simply not true at all
>
> there is some sequence colum added and i can't find my mail from years
> ago how to handle it in my admin backend which has capabilities to move
> messages from the admin backends between folders and even users
>
> otherwise clients will go out of sync
>
> Am 06.04.20 um 10:38 schrieb Andrea Brancatelli: You all realise there are a lot of commit coming in on GitHub, right?
>
> https://github.com/dbmail/dbmail/commits/master
> if nobody manages releases tha don't help much
>
> given my expierience back when upgrade to 3.0 and especially 3.1 that#s
> the reason that i even don't consider update to 3.2
>
> in both cases 3ö0 and 3.1 we had massive issues like completly empty
> mails with pop3, all sort of broken mails over imap depending on the
> mail body at reconstruction and it#s even unclear if all the bugfix fopr
> latest 3.1 made it to github
>
> when i face similar issues as with the latest point update swith a non
> existent upstream making quick bugfiox releases i can commit suicide
>
> On 2020-04-06 10:25, Daniel Urstöger wrote:
>
> if you can that esaily.... and the uqaliuty of dovecot is also
> shitty, i
> know one which swicthed, just other rpoblems and never update short
> after a release
>
> i have implemented 6000 lines of code for backends, automation and
> infrastructure integration back in 2009 and spent hundrest of ours to
> get the fucking 3.0 and 3.1 versions debugged and then upstream
> disappears from one day to another
> I understand that people are very upset but by now everyone should
> realize that Paul has dropped the project and moved on. Dbmail came
> free and is open source so be happy while it lasted and be grateful to
> Paul, he made an awesome product!
>
> So whilst the move to GitHub was brilliant its just one of the
> projects which is hard to maintain, as IMAP, LMTP, etc. are not easy
> to understand protocols so it never got much traction there and to be
> honest there are surely not so many C-savvy people out there these
> days as well as the few pull request that came in didn't get merged
> and there wasn't a successful fork.
>
> Also since there are alternatives out there that work really well, I
> used courier for many years now and moved to dovecot later on, well,
> there is not much demand for dbmail and if Paul doesn't make a grand
> return, lets face it: dbmail won't progress.
>
> So, I also spent a great deal of time with dbmail setups and I even
> wrote a whole webmail application for it, which specifically blew away
> roundcube and others because it could fetch data directly from the
> database layer, but well, thats the past lets move on.
_______________________________________________
DBmail mailing list
DBmail@lists.nfg.nl
https://lists.nfg.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dbmail

I have to say I had no issues with 2.4 to 3.0 to 3.1 and 3.2 either.
worked fine for me (but i have only 3 users .. although my database is
>100GB anyway since I keep all my old mails (except the junk mail of course).

that said .. who is still using it and would be interested in merging
stuff / .. ? so far I count 3 people maybe 4?

I certainly want to keep using it if I can since I like the concept..
though some things do need fixing (like the slow folder list
fetching,..)

I do plan to try writing a STored Procedure for the folder list fetching
and test that at some point but i don't have an ETA for that .. the
"risk" is that I would likely only do it for postgresql since that is
what I am using..

On 2020-04-06 11:05, Andrea Brancatelli wrote:

> I'm talking about latest commits, not about 3.0 to 3.1
>
> BTW I did all the transitions from 2.4 to 3.0 to 3.1 quite smoothly so I don't exactly get all your stress about this topic.
>
> And, like you do, in our company we have a lot of custom code relying on the SQL base os dbmail so I understand the cost of dealing with the SQL base changing. Yet again in our pro/cons valuations, it's cheaper to adapt our software to the evolutions than to adopt a new mail server.
>
> Do your balances and act accordingly.
>
> ---
>
> Andrea Brancatelli
>
> On 2020-04-06 10:52, Reindl Harald wrote:
>
> Am 06.04.20 um 10:44 schrieb Andrea Brancatelli: There are no upgrade for the SQL base coming in, so you'll be able go
> just upgrade the software without any issue.
> this is simply not true at all
>
> there is some sequence colum added and i can't find my mail from years
> ago how to handle it in my admin backend which has capabilities to move
> messages from the admin backends between folders and even users
>
> otherwise clients will go out of sync
>
> Am 06.04.20 um 10:38 schrieb Andrea Brancatelli: You all realise there are a lot of commit coming in on GitHub, right?
>
> https://github.com/dbmail/dbmail/commits/master
> if nobody manages releases tha don't help much
>
> given my expierience back when upgrade to 3.0 and especially 3.1 that#s
> the reason that i even don't consider update to 3.2
>
> in both cases 3ö0 and 3.1 we had massive issues like completly empty
> mails with pop3, all sort of broken mails over imap depending on the
> mail body at reconstruction and it#s even unclear if all the bugfix fopr
> latest 3.1 made it to github
>
> when i face similar issues as with the latest point update swith a non
> existent upstream making quick bugfiox releases i can commit suicide
>
> On 2020-04-06 10:25, Daniel Urstöger wrote:
>
> if you can that esaily.... and the uqaliuty of dovecot is also
> shitty, i
> know one which swicthed, just other rpoblems and never update short
> after a release
>
> i have implemented 6000 lines of code for backends, automation and
> infrastructure integration back in 2009 and spent hundrest of ours to
> get the fucking 3.0 and 3.1 versions debugged and then upstream
> disappears from one day to another
> I understand that people are very upset but by now everyone should
> realize that Paul has dropped the project and moved on. Dbmail came
> free and is open source so be happy while it lasted and be grateful to
> Paul, he made an awesome product!
>
> So whilst the move to GitHub was brilliant its just one of the
> projects which is hard to maintain, as IMAP, LMTP, etc. are not easy
> to understand protocols so it never got much traction there and to be
> honest there are surely not so many C-savvy people out there these
> days as well as the few pull request that came in didn't get merged
> and there wasn't a successful fork.
>
> Also since there are alternatives out there that work really well, I
> used courier for many years now and moved to dovecot later on, well,
> there is not much demand for dbmail and if Paul doesn't make a grand
> return, lets face it: dbmail won't progress.
>
> So, I also spent a great deal of time with dbmail setups and I even
> wrote a whole webmail application for it, which specifically blew away
> roundcube and others because it could fetch data directly from the
> database layer, but well, thats the past lets move on.
_______________________________________________
DBmail mailing list
DBmail@lists.nfg.nl
https://lists.nfg.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dbmail
_______________________________________________
DBmail mailing list
DBmail@lists.nfg.nl
https://lists.nfg.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dbmail

Am 06.04.20 um 11:05 schrieb Andrea Brancatelli:
> I'm talking about latest commits, not about 3.0 to 3.1
>
> BTW I did all the transitions from 2.4 to 3.0 to 3.1 quite smoothly so I
> don't exactly get all your stress about this topic.

maybe you did it *after* my offlist sessions with Paul exchainging all
sort of customer mails which where broken at reconstruction and not
meant for public lists

P.S: when you reply only to the list you don#t break my "reply-list" and
threading

> And, like you do, in our company we have a lot of custom code relying on
> the SQL base os dbmail so I understand the cost of dealing with the SQL
> base changing. Yet again in our pro/cons valuations, it's cheaper to
> adapt our software to the evolutions than to adopt a new mail server.
>
> Do your balances and act accordingly.
>
> On 2020-04-06 10:52, Reindl Harald wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Am 06.04.20 um 10:44 schrieb Andrea Brancatelli:
>>> There are no upgrade for the SQL base coming in, so you'll be able go
>>> just upgrade the software without any issue.
>>
>> this is simply not true at all
>>
>> there is some sequence colum added and i can't find my mail from years
>> ago how to handle it in my admin backend which has capabilities to move
>> messages from the admin backends between folders and even users
>>
>> otherwise clients will go out of sync
>>
>>>> Am 06.04.20 um 10:38 schrieb Andrea Brancatelli:
>>>>> You all realise there are a lot of commit coming in on GitHub, right?
>>>>>
>>>>> https://github.com/dbmail/dbmail/commits/master
>>>>
>>>> if nobody manages releases tha don't help much
>>>>
>>>> given my expierience back when upgrade to 3.0 and especially 3.1 that#s
>>>> the reason that i even don't consider update to 3.2
>>>>
>>>> in both cases 3ö0 and 3.1 we had massive issues like completly empty
>>>> mails with pop3, all sort of broken mails over imap depending on the
>>>> mail body at reconstruction and it#s even unclear if all the bugfix fopr
>>>> latest 3.1 made it to github
>>>>
>>>> when i face similar issues as with the latest point update swith a non
>>>> existent upstream making quick bugfiox releases i can commit suicide
>>>>
>>>>> On 2020-04-06 10:25, Daniel Urstöger wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> if you can that esaily.... and the uqaliuty of dovecot is also
>>>>>>> shitty, i
>>>>>>> know one which swicthed, just other rpoblems and never update short
>>>>>>> after a release
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> i have implemented 6000 lines of code for backends, automation and
>>>>>>> infrastructure integration back in 2009 and spent hundrest of ours to
>>>>>>> get the fucking 3.0 and 3.1 versions debugged and then upstream
>>>>>>> disappears from one day to another
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I understand that people are very upset but by now everyone should
>>>>>> realize that Paul has dropped the project and moved on. Dbmail came
>>>>>> free and is open source so be happy while it lasted and be grateful to
>>>>>> Paul, he made an awesome product!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So whilst the move to GitHub was brilliant its just one of the
>>>>>> projects which is hard to maintain, as IMAP, LMTP, etc. are not easy
>>>>>> to understand protocols so it never got much traction there and to be
>>>>>> honest there are surely not so many C-savvy  people out there these
>>>>>> days as well as the few pull request that came in didn't get merged
>>>>>> and there wasn't a successful fork.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also since there are alternatives out there that work really well, I
>>>>>> used courier for many years now and moved to dovecot later on, well,
>>>>>> there is not much demand for dbmail and if Paul doesn't make a grand
>>>>>> return, lets face it: dbmail won't progress.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, I also spent a great deal of time with dbmail setups and I even
>>>>>> wrote a whole webmail application for it, which specifically blew away
>>>>>> roundcube and others because it could fetch data directly from the
>>>>>> database layer, but well, thats the past lets move on.

--

Reindl Harald
the lounge interactive design GmbH
A-1060 Vienna, Hofmühlgasse 17
CTO / CISO / Software-Development
m: +43 676 40 221 40
p: +43 1 595 3999 33
http://www.thelounge.net/

GPG-Public-Key:
https://arrakis-tls.thelounge.net/gpg/h.reindl_thelounge.net.pub.txt
_______________________________________________
DBmail mailing list
DBmail@lists.nfg.nl
https://lists.nfg.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dbmail

Am 06.04.20 um 11:26 schrieb Reindl Harald:
> Am 06.04.20 um 11:05 schrieb Andrea Brancatelli:
>> I'm talking about latest commits, not about 3.0 to 3.1
>>
>> BTW I did all the transitions from 2.4 to 3.0 to 3.1 quite smoothly so I
>> don't exactly get all your stress about this topic.
>
> maybe you did it *after* my offlist sessions with Paul exchainging all
> sort of customer mails which where broken at reconstruction and not
> meant for public lists

or maybe you don't have that unholy mix of hundrets of users using
Apple, Windows and Linux clients in all sort of versions

the same message can be fetched and recostructed in a ton of different
ways and in case of POP3 you are f*ed when you get an empty message
because even a server fix after that won't help, most imap clients the
same with all their cachings

attached a screenshot how messages where broken randomly and now that#s
not "view source"

> P.S: when you reply only to the list you don't break my "reply-list" and
> threading
>
>> And, like you do, in our company we have a lot of custom code relying on
>> the SQL base os dbmail so I understand the cost of dealing with the SQL
>> base changing. Yet again in our pro/cons valuations, it's cheaper to
>> adapt our software to the evolutions than to adopt a new mail server.
>>
>> Do your balances and act accordingly.
>>
>> On 2020-04-06 10:52, Reindl Harald wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 06.04.20 um 10:44 schrieb Andrea Brancatelli:
>>>> There are no upgrade for the SQL base coming in, so you'll be able go
>>>> just upgrade the software without any issue.
>>>
>>> this is simply not true at all
>>>
>>> there is some sequence colum added and i can't find my mail from years
>>> ago how to handle it in my admin backend which has capabilities to move
>>> messages from the admin backends between folders and even users
>>>
>>> otherwise clients will go out of sync
>>>
>>>>> Am 06.04.20 um 10:38 schrieb Andrea Brancatelli:
>>>>>> You all realise there are a lot of commit coming in on GitHub, right?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://github.com/dbmail/dbmail/commits/master
>>>>>
>>>>> if nobody manages releases tha don't help much
>>>>>
>>>>> given my expierience back when upgrade to 3.0 and especially 3.1 that#s
>>>>> the reason that i even don't consider update to 3.2
>>>>>
>>>>> in both cases 3ö0 and 3.1 we had massive issues like completly empty
>>>>> mails with pop3, all sort of broken mails over imap depending on the
>>>>> mail body at reconstruction and it#s even unclear if all the bugfix fopr
>>>>> latest 3.1 made it to github
>>>>>
>>>>> when i face similar issues as with the latest point update swith a non
>>>>> existent upstream making quick bugfiox releases i can commit suicide
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2020-04-06 10:25, Daniel Urstöger wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> if you can that esaily.... and the uqaliuty of dovecot is also
>>>>>>>> shitty, i
>>>>>>>> know one which swicthed, just other rpoblems and never update short
>>>>>>>> after a release
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> i have implemented 6000 lines of code for backends, automation and
>>>>>>>> infrastructure integration back in 2009 and spent hundrest of ours to
>>>>>>>> get the fucking 3.0 and 3.1 versions debugged and then upstream
>>>>>>>> disappears from one day to another
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I understand that people are very upset but by now everyone should
>>>>>>> realize that Paul has dropped the project and moved on. Dbmail came
>>>>>>> free and is open source so be happy while it lasted and be grateful to
>>>>>>> Paul, he made an awesome product!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So whilst the move to GitHub was brilliant its just one of the
>>>>>>> projects which is hard to maintain, as IMAP, LMTP, etc. are not easy
>>>>>>> to understand protocols so it never got much traction there and to be
>>>>>>> honest there are surely not so many C-savvy  people out there these
>>>>>>> days as well as the few pull request that came in didn't get merged
>>>>>>> and there wasn't a successful fork.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Also since there are alternatives out there that work really well, I
>>>>>>> used courier for many years now and moved to dovecot later on, well,
>>>>>>> there is not much demand for dbmail and if Paul doesn't make a grand
>>>>>>> return, lets face it: dbmail won't progress.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, I also spent a great deal of time with dbmail setups and I even
>>>>>>> wrote a whole webmail application for it, which specifically blew away
>>>>>>> roundcube and others because it could fetch data directly from the
>>>>>>> database layer, but well, thats the past lets move on.
>

--

Reindl Harald
the lounge interactive design GmbH
A-1060 Vienna, Hofmühlgasse 17
CTO / CISO / Software-Development
m: +43 676 40 221 40
p: +43 1 595 3999 33
http://www.thelounge.net/

GPG-Public-Key:
https://arrakis-tls.thelounge.net/gpg/h.reindl_thelounge.net.pub.txt

one part of response of paul where we even paid money to get it fixed
before i commit suicide, see the screenshot, only happened under
*concurrency* and so randomly, it took 6 days to figure out what's happening

that is the guilty commit and sadly i remember that it
fixed a bug rpeorted from myself in case of specific
messages not proper re-constructed at least on Apple Mail
http://git.dbmail.eu/paul/dbmail/commit/?h=dbmail_3_1&id=8c612adbe6468e2cb4d520789cd35156145c5f37

no idea why a commit from 2014-02-10 took that
long to get visible each day more

-------------------

and than there was the nice bug that dbmail-lmtpd crashed randomly until
we figured out "hey, it's when a customer has configured a native autoreply"

Am 06.04.20 um 11:34 schrieb Reindl Harald:
> Am 06.04.20 um 11:26 schrieb Reindl Harald:
>> Am 06.04.20 um 11:05 schrieb Andrea Brancatelli:
>>> I'm talking about latest commits, not about 3.0 to 3.1
>>>
>>> BTW I did all the transitions from 2.4 to 3.0 to 3.1 quite smoothly so I
>>> don't exactly get all your stress about this topic.
>>
>> maybe you did it *after* my offlist sessions with Paul exchainging all
>> sort of customer mails which where broken at reconstruction and not
>> meant for public lists
>
> or maybe you don't have that unholy mix of hundrets of users using
> Apple, Windows and Linux clients in all sort of versions
>
> the same message can be fetched and recostructed in a ton of different
> ways and in case of POP3 you are f*ed when you get an empty message
> because even a server fix after that won't help, most imap clients the
> same with all their cachings
>
> attached a screenshot how messages where broken randomly and now that#s
> not "view source"
>
>> P.S: when you reply only to the list you don't break my "reply-list" and
>> threading
>>
>>> And, like you do, in our company we have a lot of custom code relying on
>>> the SQL base os dbmail so I understand the cost of dealing with the SQL
>>> base changing. Yet again in our pro/cons valuations, it's cheaper to
>>> adapt our software to the evolutions than to adopt a new mail server.
>>>
>>> Do your balances and act accordingly.
>>>
>>> On 2020-04-06 10:52, Reindl Harald wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am 06.04.20 um 10:44 schrieb Andrea Brancatelli:
>>>>> There are no upgrade for the SQL base coming in, so you'll be able go
>>>>> just upgrade the software without any issue.
>>>>
>>>> this is simply not true at all
>>>>
>>>> there is some sequence colum added and i can't find my mail from years
>>>> ago how to handle it in my admin backend which has capabilities to move
>>>> messages from the admin backends between folders and even users
>>>>
>>>> otherwise clients will go out of sync
>>>>
>>>>>> Am 06.04.20 um 10:38 schrieb Andrea Brancatelli:
>>>>>>> You all realise there are a lot of commit coming in on GitHub, right?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://github.com/dbmail/dbmail/commits/master
>>>>>>
>>>>>> if nobody manages releases tha don't help much
>>>>>>
>>>>>> given my expierience back when upgrade to 3.0 and especially 3.1 that#s
>>>>>> the reason that i even don't consider update to 3.2
>>>>>>
>>>>>> in both cases 3ö0 and 3.1 we had massive issues like completly empty
>>>>>> mails with pop3, all sort of broken mails over imap depending on the
>>>>>> mail body at reconstruction and it#s even unclear if all the bugfix fopr
>>>>>> latest 3.1 made it to github
>>>>>>
>>>>>> when i face similar issues as with the latest point update swith a non
>>>>>> existent upstream making quick bugfiox releases i can commit suicide
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2020-04-06 10:25, Daniel Urstöger wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> if you can that esaily.... and the uqaliuty of dovecot is also
>>>>>>>>> shitty, i
>>>>>>>>> know one which swicthed, just other rpoblems and never update short
>>>>>>>>> after a release
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> i have implemented 6000 lines of code for backends, automation and
>>>>>>>>> infrastructure integration back in 2009 and spent hundrest of ours to
>>>>>>>>> get the fucking 3.0 and 3.1 versions debugged and then upstream
>>>>>>>>> disappears from one day to another
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I understand that people are very upset but by now everyone should
>>>>>>>> realize that Paul has dropped the project and moved on. Dbmail came
>>>>>>>> free and is open source so be happy while it lasted and be grateful to
>>>>>>>> Paul, he made an awesome product!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So whilst the move to GitHub was brilliant its just one of the
>>>>>>>> projects which is hard to maintain, as IMAP, LMTP, etc. are not easy
>>>>>>>> to understand protocols so it never got much traction there and to be
>>>>>>>> honest there are surely not so many C-savvy  people out there these
>>>>>>>> days as well as the few pull request that came in didn't get merged
>>>>>>>> and there wasn't a successful fork.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Also since there are alternatives out there that work really well, I
>>>>>>>> used courier for many years now and moved to dovecot later on, well,
>>>>>>>> there is not much demand for dbmail and if Paul doesn't make a grand
>>>>>>>> return, lets face it: dbmail won't progress.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So, I also spent a great deal of time with dbmail setups and I even
>>>>>>>> wrote a whole webmail application for it, which specifically blew away
>>>>>>>> roundcube and others because it could fetch data directly from the
>>>>>>>> database layer, but well, thats the past lets move on.

Harald calm down.

We have:

root@rubidio:~ # dbmail-users -l | wc -l
815

815 mailboxes right now, more than 3TB of mails, with an huge mixture of
all kinds of client. Mac OS X Mail, Outlook, Android, iOS, whatever, so,
again, I can understand your difficulties, yet I don't understand if you
had problems with previous consultancy with Paul now you have to poison
an open source project.

Nobody here is Paul, who, btw, is totally entitled to change is life and
drop a software or a job if he feels to do it.

In any case my best suggestion for you is to switch to Office365 or to
GMail's business services: transferring mail from DBMail to their
service via IMAP is pretty easy and quick, and you'll have fixed SLAs
you can blame on.

Even if you switch to, let's say postfix?, right now you'll have the
same situation when it comes to assistance in an open source product.

---

Andrea Brancatelli

On 2020-04-06 11:26, Reindl Harald wrote:

> Am 06.04.20 um 11:05 schrieb Andrea Brancatelli:
>
>> I'm talking about latest commits, not about 3.0 to 3.1
>>
>> BTW I did all the transitions from 2.4 to 3.0 to 3.1 quite smoothly so I
>> don't exactly get all your stress about this topic.
>
> maybe you did it *after* my offlist sessions with Paul exchainging all
> sort of customer mails which where broken at reconstruction and not
> meant for public lists
>
> P.S: when you reply only to the list you don#t break my "reply-list" and
> threading
>
> And, like you do, in our company we have a lot of custom code relying on
> the SQL base os dbmail so I understand the cost of dealing with the SQL
> base changing. Yet again in our pro/cons valuations, it's cheaper to
> adapt our software to the evolutions than to adopt a new mail server.
>
> Do your balances and act accordingly.
>
> On 2020-04-06 10:52, Reindl Harald wrote:
>
> Am 06.04.20 um 10:44 schrieb Andrea Brancatelli: There are no upgrade for the SQL base coming in, so you'll be able go
> just upgrade the software without any issue.
> this is simply not true at all
>
> there is some sequence colum added and i can't find my mail from years
> ago how to handle it in my admin backend which has capabilities to move
> messages from the admin backends between folders and even users
>
> otherwise clients will go out of sync
>
> Am 06.04.20 um 10:38 schrieb Andrea Brancatelli: You all realise there are a lot of commit coming in on GitHub, right?
>
> https://github.com/dbmail/dbmail/commits/master
> if nobody manages releases tha don't help much
>
> given my expierience back when upgrade to 3.0 and especially 3.1 that#s
> the reason that i even don't consider update to 3.2
>
> in both cases 3ö0 and 3.1 we had massive issues like completly empty
> mails with pop3, all sort of broken mails over imap depending on the
> mail body at reconstruction and it#s even unclear if all the bugfix fopr
> latest 3.1 made it to github
>
> when i face similar issues as with the latest point update swith a non
> existent upstream making quick bugfiox releases i can commit suicide
>
> On 2020-04-06 10:25, Daniel Urstöger wrote:
>
> if you can that esaily.... and the uqaliuty of dovecot is also
> shitty, i
> know one which swicthed, just other rpoblems and never update short
> after a release
>
> i have implemented 6000 lines of code for backends, automation and
> infrastructure integration back in 2009 and spent hundrest of ours to
> get the fucking 3.0 and 3.1 versions debugged and then upstream
> disappears from one day to another
> I understand that people are very upset but by now everyone should
> realize that Paul has dropped the project and moved on. Dbmail came
> free and is open source so be happy while it lasted and be grateful to
> Paul, he made an awesome product!
>
> So whilst the move to GitHub was brilliant its just one of the
> projects which is hard to maintain, as IMAP, LMTP, etc. are not easy
> to understand protocols so it never got much traction there and to be
> honest there are surely not so many C-savvy people out there these
> days as well as the few pull request that came in didn't get merged
> and there wasn't a successful fork.
>
> Also since there are alternatives out there that work really well, I
> used courier for many years now and moved to dovecot later on, well,
> there is not much demand for dbmail and if Paul doesn't make a grand
> return, lets face it: dbmail won't progress.
>
> So, I also spent a great deal of time with dbmail setups and I even
> wrote a whole webmail application for it, which specifically blew away
> roundcube and others because it could fetch data directly from the
> database layer, but well, thats the past lets move on.

--

Reindl Harald
the lounge interactive design GmbH
A-1060 Vienna, Hofmühlgasse 17
CTO / CISO / Software-Development
m: +43 676 40 221 40
p: +43 1 595 3999 33
http://www.thelounge.net/

GPG-Public-Key:
https://arrakis-tls.thelounge.net/gpg/h.reindl_thelounge.net.pub.txt
_______________________________________________
DBmail mailing list
DBmail@lists.nfg.nl
https://lists.nfg.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dbmail

Am 06.04.20 um 11:54 schrieb Andrea Brancatelli:
> Harald calm down.
>
> We have:
>
> root@rubidio:~ # dbmail-users -l | wc -l
> 815
>
> 815 mailboxes right now, more than 3TB of mails, with an huge mixture of
> all kinds of client. Mac OS X Mail, Outlook, Android, iOS, whatever, so,
> again, I can understand your difficulties

the question remains when you upgraded to 3.0 and 3.1, both where
completly unuseable at release day

> yet I don't understand if you
> had problems with previous consultancy with Paul now you have to poison
> an open source project.

the consultancy was fine until he diseppeared without any notice

> Nobody here is Paul, who, btw, is totally entitled to change is life and
> drop a software or a job if he feels to do it.

but i expect from grown up pepople to do that with some communication

> In any case my best suggestion for you is to switch to Office365 or to
> GMail's business services: transferring mail from DBMail to their
> service via IMAP is pretty easy and quick, and you'll have fixed SLAs
> you can blame on.

yeah, after invest 3000 hours of work into a spmafilter appliance in
front of the mailserver i throw my customers into the cloud...

> Even if you switch to, let's say postfix?, right now you'll have the
> same situation when it comes to assistance in an open source product.

i don#t buy your 815 mailboxes when you think one can switch from dbmail
to postfix given that postfix/exim or whatever MTA arethe smtp part of
a dbmail setup :-)

> On 2020-04-06 11:26, Reindl Harald wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Am 06.04.20 um 11:05 schrieb Andrea Brancatelli:
>>> I'm talking about latest commits, not about 3.0 to 3.1
>>>
>>> BTW I did all the transitions from 2.4 to 3.0 to 3.1 quite smoothly so I
>>> don't exactly get all your stress about this topic.
>>
>> maybe you did it *after* my offlist sessions with Paul exchainging all
>> sort of customer mails which where broken at reconstruction and not
>> meant for public lists
>>
>> P.S: when you reply only to the list you don#t break my "reply-list" and
>> threading
>>
>>> And, like you do, in our company we have a lot of custom code relying on
>>> the SQL base os dbmail so I understand the cost of dealing with the SQL
>>> base changing. Yet again in our pro/cons valuations, it's cheaper to
>>> adapt our software to the evolutions than to adopt a new mail server.
>>>
>>> Do your balances and act accordingly.
>>>
>>> On 2020-04-06 10:52, Reindl Harald wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am 06.04.20 um 10:44 schrieb Andrea Brancatelli:
>>>>> There are no upgrade for the SQL base coming in, so you'll be able go
>>>>> just upgrade the software without any issue.
>>>>
>>>> this is simply not true at all
>>>>
>>>> there is some sequence colum added and i can't find my mail from years
>>>> ago how to handle it in my admin backend which has capabilities to move
>>>> messages from the admin backends between folders and even users
>>>>
>>>> otherwise clients will go out of sync
>>>>
>>>>>> Am 06.04.20 um 10:38 schrieb Andrea Brancatelli:
>>>>>>> You all realise there are a lot of commit coming in on GitHub, right?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://github.com/dbmail/dbmail/commits/master
>>>>>>
>>>>>> if nobody manages releases tha don't help much
>>>>>>
>>>>>> given my expierience back when upgrade to 3.0 and especially 3.1
>>>>>> that#s
>>>>>> the reason that i even don't consider update to 3.2
>>>>>>
>>>>>> in both cases 3ö0 and 3.1 we had massive issues like completly empty
>>>>>> mails with pop3, all sort of broken mails over imap depending on the
>>>>>> mail body at reconstruction and it#s even unclear if all the
>>>>>> bugfix fopr
>>>>>> latest 3.1 made it to github
>>>>>>
>>>>>> when i face similar issues as with the latest point update swith a non
>>>>>> existent upstream making quick bugfiox releases i can commit suicide
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2020-04-06 10:25, Daniel Urstöger wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> if you can that esaily.... and the uqaliuty of dovecot is also
>>>>>>>>> shitty, i
>>>>>>>>> know one which swicthed, just other rpoblems and never update short
>>>>>>>>> after a release
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> i have implemented 6000 lines of code for backends, automation and
>>>>>>>>> infrastructure integration back in 2009 and spent hundrest of
>>>>>>>>> ours to
>>>>>>>>> get the fucking 3.0 and 3.1 versions debugged and then upstream
>>>>>>>>> disappears from one day to another
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I understand that people are very upset but by now everyone should
>>>>>>>> realize that Paul has dropped the project and moved on. Dbmail came
>>>>>>>> free and is open source so be happy while it lasted and be
>>>>>>>> grateful to
>>>>>>>> Paul, he made an awesome product!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So whilst the move to GitHub was brilliant its just one of the
>>>>>>>> projects which is hard to maintain, as IMAP, LMTP, etc. are not easy
>>>>>>>> to understand protocols so it never got much traction there and
>>>>>>>> to be
>>>>>>>> honest there are surely not so many C-savvy  people out there these
>>>>>>>> days as well as the few pull request that came in didn't get merged
>>>>>>>> and there wasn't a successful fork.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Also since there are alternatives out there that work really well, I
>>>>>>>> used courier for many years now and moved to dovecot later on, well,
>>>>>>>> there is not much demand for dbmail and if Paul doesn't make a grand
>>>>>>>> return, lets face it: dbmail won't progress.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So, I also spent a great deal of time with dbmail setups and I even
>>>>>>>> wrote a whole webmail application for it, which specifically
>>>>>>>> blew away
>>>>>>>> roundcube and others because it could fetch data directly from the
>>>>>>>> database layer, but well, thats the past lets move on.

_______________________________________________
DBmail mailing list
DBmail@lists.nfg.nl
https://lists.nfg.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dbmail

I am kind of following the conversation, and it is good to see some
interest in DBMail finally!

Although I have not received any updates and dbmail was unfortunately
dropped from epel (CentOS), I build my own .rpm and .deb packages and I
continue to use it. dbmail is a great product for which I have not found
any replacement yet because I use it in a cluster with two servers
connecting to a mysql cluster. Try that with any other imap/pop server!
Ye can't!

Mauro

On 06/04/2020 10:26, Thomas Raschbacher wrote:
>
> I have to say I had no issues with 2.4 to 3.0 to 3.1 and 3.2 either.
> worked fine for me (but i have only 3 users .. although my database is
> >100GB anyway since I keep all my old mails (except the junk mail of
> course).
>
> that said .. who is still using it and would be interested  in merging
> stuff / .. ? so far I count 3 people maybe 4?
>
> I certainly want to keep using it if I can since I like the concept..
> though some things do need fixing (like the slow folder list fetching,..)
>
> I do plan to try writing a STored Procedure for the folder list
> fetching and test that at some point but i don't have an ETA for that
> .. the "risk" is that I would likely only do it for postgresql since
> that is what I am using..
>
> On 2020-04-06 11:05, Andrea Brancatelli wrote:
>
>> I'm talking about latest commits, not about 3.0 to 3.1
>>
>> BTW I did all the transitions from 2.4 to 3.0 to 3.1 quite smoothly
>> so I don't exactly get all your stress about this topic.
>>
>> And, like you do, in our company we have a lot of custom code relying
>> on the SQL base os dbmail so I understand the cost of dealing with
>> the SQL base changing. Yet again in our pro/cons valuations, it's
>> cheaper to adapt our software to the evolutions than to adopt a new
>> mail server.
>>
>> Do your balances and act accordingly.
>>
>>
>> ---
>> *Andrea Brancatelli *
>>
>> On 2020-04-06 10:52, Reindl Harald wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 06.04.20 um 10:44 schrieb Andrea Brancatelli:
>>
>> There are no upgrade for the SQL base coming in, so you'll be
>> able go
>> just upgrade the software without any issue.
>>
>>
>> this is simply not true at all
>>
>> there is some sequence colum added and i can't find my mail from
>> years
>> ago how to handle it in my admin backend which has capabilities
>> to move
>> messages from the admin backends between folders and even users
>>
>> otherwise clients will go out of sync
>>
>> Am 06.04.20 um 10:38 schrieb Andrea Brancatelli:
>>
>> You all realise there are a lot of commit coming in
>> on GitHub, right?
>>
>> https://github.com/dbmail/dbmail/commits/master
>>
>>
>> if nobody manages releases tha don't help much
>>
>> given my expierience back when upgrade to 3.0 and
>> especially 3.1 that#s
>> the reason that i even don't consider update to 3.2
>>
>> in both cases 3ö0 and 3.1 we had massive issues like
>> completly empty
>> mails with pop3, all sort of broken mails over imap
>> depending on the
>> mail body at reconstruction and it#s even unclear if all
>> the bugfix fopr
>> latest 3.1 made it to github
>>
>> when i face similar issues as with the latest point
>> update swith a non
>> existent upstream making quick bugfiox releases i can
>> commit suicide
>>
>> On 2020-04-06 10:25, Daniel Urstöger wrote:
>>
>> if you can that esaily.... and the uqaliuty
>> of dovecot is also
>> shitty, i
>> know one which swicthed, just other rpoblems
>> and never update short
>> after a release
>>
>> i have implemented 6000 lines of code for
>> backends, automation and
>> infrastructure integration back in 2009 and
>> spent hundrest of ours to
>> get the fucking 3.0 and 3.1 versions debugged
>> and then upstream
>> disappears from one day to another
>>
>>
>> I understand that people are very upset but by
>> now everyone should
>> realize that Paul has dropped the project and
>> moved on. Dbmail came
>> free and is open source so be happy while it
>> lasted and be grateful to
>> Paul, he made an awesome product!
>>
>> So whilst the move to GitHub was brilliant its
>> just one of the
>> projects which is hard to maintain, as IMAP,
>> LMTP, etc. are not easy
>> to understand protocols so it never got much
>> traction there and to be
>> honest there are surely not so many C-savvy
>>  people out there these
>> days as well as the few pull request that came in
>> didn't get merged
>> and there wasn't a successful fork.
>>
>> Also since there are alternatives out there that
>> work really well, I
>> used courier for many years now and moved to
>> dovecot later on, well,
>> there is not much demand for dbmail and if Paul
>> doesn't make a grand
>> return, lets face it: dbmail won't progress.
>>
>> So, I also spent a great deal of time with dbmail
>> setups and I even
>> wrote a whole webmail application for it, which
>> specifically blew away
>> roundcube and others because it could fetch data
>> directly from the
>> database layer, but well, thats the past lets
>> move on.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> DBmail mailing list
>> DBmail@lists.nfg.nl <mailto:DBmail@lists.nfg.nl>
>> https://lists.nfg.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dbmail
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> DBmail mailing list
>> DBmail@lists.nfg.nl <mailto:DBmail@lists.nfg.nl>
>> https://lists.nfg.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dbmail
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> DBmail mailing list
> DBmail@lists.nfg.nl
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